The Rise of Skywalker Why the hate on Daisy Ridley's performance?

[godisawesome]

It can also be part opportunity. I would agree that Kylo Ren is a more interesting character as consistently written in these movies, so he has the best material of the three to work with.

To me, this is always more damning by faint praise, because Kylo’s character can be summed up as:

“In TFA, he’s a horrible and moody human being who could maybe turn good!...Psyche! He won’t! In TLJ, he’s a horrible and moody human being who could maybe turn good... again!...Psyche! He won’t! In TROS, he’s a horrible and moody human being who could maybe turn good! And he does! Because magic!”

Like, on the one hand, the role of Kylo isn’t nearly as demanding as Driver’s total talents could be used for, and frankly, it mostly just repeating the exact same story of inner turmoil fighting fanaticism for three films in a row... but at least the inner turmoil is a constant, as is the Kylo persona’s evil nature towards anyone he’s not related to. The most inconsistent thing about Kylo is how the films and characters view him. That’s a stability that makes Driver’s job a bit easier - he knows what to focus on, and does so.

In contrast, I’d argue both Ridley and Boyega had better characters and opportunity in TFA than Driver, simply because their characters were much more dynamic, had more screen time and better pacing to themselves, and didn’t *yet* have to worry about consistency. Ridely as Rey was the most popular character immediately afterwards, and LFL reportedly ordered Johnson to include more Finn in TLJ because of Boyega and Finn’s reception. Driver was doing a lot with a little, but Boyega and Ridley were more than capable of making their greater share of responsibility get maximized...

...Until TLJ.

Frankly, TLJ simply wasn’t a kind script towards the characterizations and emotional cores that Boyega and Ridley had started with, and neither script was really intuitive or even really one you’d want after TFA.

Rey was never given a “Luke finds out who Vader is/Anakin kills the Sandpeople and is horrified” moment; in fact, she’s mostly used as an audience POV character... well, at least an audience POV character that follows Johnson’s priorities. She’s there to help Luke’s plot get explained (like if ESB’s Dagobah scene’s were more about Luke interviewing Yoda rather than Luke’s growth) and whenever with Kylo, she reflects Johnson’s out of universe view of Kylo instead of any natural progression from their story in TLJ. The role has the screentime of the lead, but not the true focus, and if I can be blunt, the entire subplot with Kylo wound up being a liability to the character and Rey’s performance - greater priority was placed on Kylo’s feelings than on what he had done to Rey previously or on where her character would go next. Kylo, while I’d argue not as well used as in TFA, at least becomes Supreme Leader. Rey just kind of stays where she was at the end of TFA... but now less emotionally powered because fo the way she was written around Kylo.

Finn and Boyega just got stuck in a meaningless Saturday Morning Cartoon subplot that definitely proves that Johnson wasn’t lying when he joked he found Finn and Poe too similar to go on an adventure, or that he could hav just left Finn in a coma for the whole film, or that he cut out a potential Finn and Rose dramatic scene because he just didn’t want to write it. Writer apathy is something that’s almost impossible to overcome.

Both Ridely and Boyega simply entered TROS without any momentum. Boyega was being supplanted by Kylo, and Ridley was being treated a bit like her character was handicapped without some Skywalker on screen to talk to.

If I had to choose, I’d say Boyega’s role in TFA is the best scripted story to take, with Ridley’s second, then Driver’s a not bad place at third for recurring major ST characters. But when you take in the other two films... Driver’s roles are better written, Ridley’s roles are highly dubious overall, and Boyega’s are a giant waste of his time.

 

[Sian]

I'm genuinely surprised so many Finn fans dislike him in TLJ, I think he was written very well there...he had his own character arc, separate from Rey's, took out Phasma and graduated from a man who just wanted to get away to a committed rebel.

TROS turned him into a joke...but then again, everyone was a joke in order to promote Rey; not at all Daisy's fault, but it's true.

Regarding Kylo stealing Finn's thunder - he didn't. Poe did. His character was supposed to die in TFA but Abrams spared him at Isaac's request, and as a result Finn was reduced as a character; instead of deuteragonist to Ridley's protagonist and Driver's antagonist he had to share screentime with Poe.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm genuinely surprised so many Finn fans dislike him in TLJ, I think he was written very well there...he had his own character arc, separate from Rey's, took out Phasma and graduated from a man who just wanted to get away to a committed rebel.

TROS turned him into a joke...but then again, everyone was a joke in order to promote Rey; not at all Daisy's fault, but it's true.

Regarding Kylo stealing Finn's thunder - he didn't. Poe did. His character was supposed to die in TFA but Abrams spared him at Isaac's request, and as a result Finn was reduced as a character; instead of deuteragonist to Ridley's protagonist and Driver's antagonist he had to share screentime with Poe.

To be fair, I think Finn and Poe's bromance kind of helped make both characters pop off the screen more. The idea of introducing Leia's most trusted pilot only to kill him off in the first act was always a weird choice to begin with for me.

Honestly, and I mean this with all due respect to Kelly Marie Tran and with sympathy to the abuse she received, but I do think the Rose character may have muddled Finn's trajectory a bit.

The sequels introduced a lot of characters in general. If you look at the originals, you clearly have: Luke, Leia, Han as your main three. Vader as the villain. Lando gets introduced along the way and becomes an important supporting character to the main trio.

You look at the sequels-- you've got Rey, Finn, Poe. Kylo is the villain, but he's also more than that-- a conflicted villain, and is probably the most compelling character in the whole thing by a longshot. Then you've got balancing the inclusion of the legacy characters as well. The OT had mentors in Yoda and Obi-Wan, but it's way more baggage when you have actors returning to roles for the first time in decades, and you're also addressing the fact that they're all in a worse state than when we last saw them. It's a lot to juggle. And even with the OT, Han's character kind of runs out of steam once he gets rescued in ROTJ.

I'm not sure continuing to introduce characters like Holdo, Rose, DJ, Jannah throughout was the best move. Maybe one, maybe two new characters to become the "Lando" of this series would've been better. The problem is Rose felt kind of like a dead-end in terms of her relationship with Finn. I saw the kiss as her having a little innocent crush on him but nothing that would ever blossom into an actual romance. The way this trilogy handled romance was very awkward and non-commital as a whole, I think it's fair to say.

I'm saying this as someone who likes TLJ though, not hating, but I think there are valid criticisms to make there in terms of how it may have wrote the trilogy into a bit of a corner in a couple of places by striving to be so stand-alone. I mean I genuinely wonder what Rian thought Rose's role in IX might be or if he thought about that at all. I'm sure it would've been something bigger than what turned out to be but like...where do you go with her? She's a fully formed character with strong convictions who believes in doing the right thing no matter what. She's the one teaching Finn lessons throughout the movie. I don't see room for an arc with her, unless you just made her Finn's love interest in IX which is...meh. Even Lando had a bit of an arc-- it mirrored Han's to an extent, but still, seeing him try to make up for what he did in Empire was something you could cheer on. Rose was just kind of a static character. I understand that she helped serve Finn's arc in TLJ, but I think if Finn was going to be split from both Rey and Poe in the movie it needed to be with a character where there was clear room for the story to grow in the next movie. Boyega also simply had better on-screen chemistry with both Daisy and Oscar and there was more emotional investment in those relationships. Rose unfortunately was just not too likable of a character. I think Finn fans tend to dislike her because it feels like she's just inserted there to preach to and lecture him along his arc, and honestly I understand that. That and there are a lot of people who shipped Finn with Rey (Finn and Poe too). Fandom...what a mess lol.

 

[henzINNIT]

I loved Daisy Ridley. In 7 & 8 especially, but even with absolute garbage to work with in 9, I found her charming and committed to the role regardless. It seemed to me that the main point of contention with Rey was her being innately powerful. I was always happy to run with it, as powerful jedi simply existing is just how it is to me. It doesn't have to be that deep. A film needs a protagonist; but considering the mystery box she climbed out of, I understand how it could have frustrated others. The intense hatred she received was prettty grim though.

Of all the characters of the ST, it was Finn that truly needed some more pay-off by the end. I will never understand how he was given so little to do in TROS. A stormtrooper rebellion absolutely should have happened. I don't think he needed to be a jedi, but if you're going to write force sensitivity into his story in 9, then for god sake actually let Finn do something cool in the finale.

I don't think the characters were too hard to pay off after TLJ tbh. Poe just had to be shown to take over as leader and be good at it. Give Rose a Lando-level role. Neither needed any further growth particularly. I would have given Connix a little something too.

 

[Sian]

100% in agreement here.
If you look at the last but one scenes in TLJ, Rian practically started off the next film by hinting at the characters' future roles. It's plain in Luke's dialogue.
'The Resistance is reborn tonight'....cut to Poe, with Leia behind him. Poe becomes the Resistance's new leader, groomed by Leia to take over from her.
'The war has just begun'....we see Finn, ready to begin a stormtrooper rebellion. A great role for him.
'See you around kid'....Luke's final words to Kylo. Foreseeing his return as a FG.

I honestly believed post TLJ there would not be a 'big bad' villain like Snoke. Instead, it would be war itself as the enemy. Poe had already shown himself to be a more aggressive type of leader - not Saw Guerrera but definitely not Mon Mothma. Notice how Holdo described the Resistance as the spark that would bring hope to the galaxy, whereas Poe described them as the spark that would 'light the fire that would burn the FO to the ground.'
On the opposite side there would be Kylo Ren, whose mental instability would be a reason for Hux to try and get rid of him. It was already mentioned in TLJ that Hux considered the army 'his'.
All he had to do was find evidence that Kylo had killed Snoke....because let's face it, his excuse that Rey had done it was flimsy in the least - who'd killed all the guards? Rey, while he stood and watched? Hux wasn't stupid.

And...what about Poe finding out about Rey's little visit to see Kylo on the Supremacy? Somehow, I don't think he would have been very happy with that.

We could have had a story that boiled down to a final conflict between Resistance and FO with Rey and Kylo literally in the middle of it, both perhaps having to flee their respective 'orders'. Finn bringing the FO down from the inside, while Rose is Poe's second, trying to act as his conscience, as shown by her comment that winning wars is 'saving what we love, not killing what we hate.'

We could have had something so very different here. Something new. What a wasted opportunity.