Superman Returns Will Superman Return again?

Well, I imagine that if Singer doesn't direct.....that we won't get another Superman film for a good 8 or 9 years.

300 MILLION for Spidey 3?

And 700 MILLION for POTC??

Wasn't SR the most expensive film the history of films? Where the **** did 700 million come from?
 
let's say there isn't another Superman sequel: What will happen to poor Brandon Routh? I can't see his career going on past this if this franchise abruptly stops at Superman Returns.
 
ChrisBaleBatman said:
Well, I imagine that if Singer doesn't direct.....that we won't get another Superman film for a good 8 or 9 years.

300 MILLION for Spidey 3?

And 700 MILLION for POTC??

Wasn't SR the most expensive film the history of films? Where the **** did 700 million come from?

What the hell :confused:
Are we talking about BO numbers of budget sizes. Cause i'm sure that it's not budget sizes. The POTC 2 has a budget of 225 million. Expect POTC 3 to have the same if not slightly bigger budget.

With SR being the most expensive , i don't think that's correct.
The HP movie that's going to open soon is reportedly the most expensive movie to date. I think ( altough i'm not sure) , it's based on how big the initial budget is, the budget at which the movie is green lit.

Budgets always tend to increase. SR was i think gonna be greenlit at 180 million and then afterwards scenes were added such as the gattling gun attack and other scenes. Including those scenes means a rise in budget .


ANyways i don't think that Warner is going to stop churning superman movies. However if they really are worried about the budget and/or Singer's refusal to take look into the DC comics as opposed to just the Donner films , then i do think that you'll wait a long long time for another Superman movie.

Will it still have a 200 million budget. Who knows. But you can rest assured that the technology will be better , so that 200 million will most definately show.
 
Yes, Superman will Return. Let's just hope Singer and his lackeys don't.
 
This was in the article:

A sequel doesn’t make much sense to me on any level. Singer promises a more action packed movie, but how is he going to pull that off with a budget below 200 million? Rumors have Spider-Man 3 clocking in at 300 million plus, and there’s an indication that the [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Pirates [/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]sequels may well cost 700 million combined. Like it or not, the effects film budget threshold is getting higher and higher, and Superman Returns had a hard time competing with a big budget as it was.
[/FONT]

So....Spidey 3 is rumored to be 300 million plus?

And BOTH POTC sequels may be at 700 million?

Goddamn, Hollywood is confusing. I kept hearing SR was the most expensive film ever made in the history of films.....but Spidey 3 seems to blow that budget straight out of the water.....and Well, Pirates.....there's some mother****ing Pirates...
 
I think that info about Pirates is so very wrong. 700 million on both movies ??!!??

No way in hell !. HEck LOTR which had more VFX , cost less then POTC2/3.
700 is just waaayyy too much . I believe that both movies are made for somewhere near 400-450 million.
Spiderman 3 budget of 300 million is also waay to high. I can see them hitting the 250 million mark , but not higher then that. Given the fact that they planned the movie from the start and they're taking much more time to work on the VFX , there's no way Spidey 3 would cost 300 million. That's just too much for one movie. Even with the BO numbers of Spiderman.

YEs the budget of VFX is getting higher and higher because studios demand more and that needs to be delivered in LESS TIME.But i think this was clearly a case of Superman just 1)sticking too much in the donner era , 2) having less post. prod time and 3) Brian just not taking too many risks .
 
I dunno man, that article says what it says....and since we're talking about the article, I thought it was something that needed pointing out.

I mean......those are massive numbers. And the article kinda makes 200 million sound like a low budget for a blockbuster.
 
hey guys you keep quoting LOTR's budget. remember that the bulk of it was made 1999-2000. that was over six years ago. and back then it was unheard of. if LOTR was gonna be made now the budget will surely escalate to half a mil at least.
 
Even so , that still makes the trilogy cost less then say POTC 2/3.
ANyways ,i'm just really tired by discussing BO figures in 3 separate threads over and over again.

Will SUperman Return Again ?
Answer : Yes

Why :
Despite the fact that the Variety article or CHUD claiming that Warner is still getting millions thru comic books sales and merchandise , it's always better to get more money. If that weren't the case then Warner would've never made Batman BEgins after the travesty of Batman and Robin or spent that much money into failed superman projects as well as the budget for SR.
Money matters.
But it's never too late to rethink you're own strategy. You can better make sure that you create a proper Superman movie which is guaranteed of good BO numbers ( both domestic and international) as opposed to mediocre/average Superman movie where it could either bomb or be an underperformer. In both cases , a superman movie will cost alot of money simply because of the complexity of the VFX.
That doesn''t mean that you need a budget that's huge , so huge that you'll barely break even or worse make losses.
Again i'll say that creating you're own VFX studio , taking time to develop the VFX instead of rushing production as well as other ways of being cost effective without losing quality over you're movie ( mebbe shooting back-to-back) is one of the answers to making a new superman movie at least for a lower budget.

Also just don't stick to the Donner films. There is a reason as to why this is based on a comic book character. For many years , the superman comics have supplied a steady stream of great stories as well as great characters , both good and evil.
Use them. Movies of today always raise the bar for the movies of tomorrow. And you need to reach or set the bar on you're own.
Batman Begins showed just what can be done when you stay faithful to the books. It proved that it had legs. Spiderman 1/2 uppped the ante for superhero villains.
Don't simply try to rehash everything from an era that isn't anymore.

SINGER needs to understand this. Move on.


Use comic book writers or at least collaborate with them. Is that so hard ?
 
but the "damage" Singer did to Superman in SR cannot be ignored or overlooked........if Singer comes back for a sequel....he will assuredly have to revisit the story he created for SR....and that means we will be getting the same elements from SR

Singer should have realized NOT to copy Donner.....BEFORE he did SR.......
 
All I know is if there is a Sequel & Singer uses Zod in any way. That will completely turn me off. I was open minded enough about Superman Returns but now it is time to get serious here
 
Interesting article from this mornning's Hollywood reporter...many people here will scream it's just a Spin piece, but as far as I know Warners has no financial stake at the Hollywood Reporter ( unlike, say...Entertainment Weekly ) It does seem that Warners does indeed wish to keep Bryan Singer after all....

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/risky_business_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003019246


Aug. 18, 2006


Fox got bigger hit, but WB happy with Singer

By Anne Thompson

As summer nears its end, "X-Men: The Last Stand," which nabbed middling reviews, seems to have exceeded expectations with a $441 million worldwide gross, while "Superman Returns" -- though it earned a strong, positive ranking of 76% on RottenTomatoes.com -- has yet to break the $200 million mark domestically. Although "Superman" is still playing overseas with a $347 million worldwide gross to date, it has failed to return on its lofty expectations. The drama behind Bryan Singer's departure from 20th Century Fox's "X-Men" franchise to direct "Superman" for Warner Bros. Pictures left much Sturm und Drang in its wake. But who were the real winners and losers on this deal?

Warners was delighted to poach Singer -- a proven tentpole director with a canny understanding of the action-adventure universe -- from Fox. He was available because Fox Filmed Entertainment co-chairman Tom Rothman had been playing a game of chicken with him on his "Last Stand" deal: Singer wanted to cash in on the final installment of the "X-Men" saga. When Warners lured Singer away with the chance to direct "Superman" and a top-dollar deal -- sources say it was $10 million vs. 7% of the gross -- Rothman was livid. He promptly shut down Singer's Bad Hat Harry Prods. office on the Fox lot -- though Singer returned the next day to the Fox set of his TV series "House."

"We were in a heightened emotional state of mind," Fox president Hutch Parker says. "We believed that Bryan was going to do 'X-Men 3,' and when he made a different choice, it was scary and daunting to be losing someone so essential to the expression of the franchise. We had to rethink how to approach this. There was a lot of anxiety for everybody."

Rather than wait for Singer, Fox made the decision to go full steam ahead. "We needed the movie," Parker says, "and it was critical that it get made in that window. We were wary about where the comic movie would be in the larger cycle."

Fox first proceeded with director Matthew Vaughn and then Brett Ratner to meet the tentpole's original May 26 release date. But it cost the studio to make that target. (According to sources close to the movie, "Last Stand" cost about $168 million after tax rebates.) Producer Lauren Shuler Donner shouldered the burden of wrestling the movie into submission; the studio rushed two pricey screenwriters, Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg, to complete their scripts; and the studio paid dearly to get elaborate visual effects from about six FX houses, including Weta Digital, finished in time. In the short term, the studio clearly won the summer 2006 battle with Warners. But where is the "X-Men" franchise going forward?

Singer was the creative force behind the "X-Men" franchise, and now he's gone. Ratner is not in the picture; the sense in Hollywood is that Fox scored with "Last Stand" despite the director, not because of him. With its "X-Men" actors now too expensive to reassemble, Fox is proceeding with development on two "X-Men" spinoffs, starring Hugh Jackman as Wolverine (David Benioff and David Ayer have written drafts) and Ian McKellen as Magneto. The bloom is definitely off the "X-Men" rose. One could argue that in the long term, the studio would have been better off paying Singer to keep him or waiting to get him back. (Rothman and Singer eventually buried the hatchet over lunch.)

Freed from Fox's tough budget controls ("X-Men" cost $80 million and "X-Men 2" $120 million), Singer was ecstatic to be moving to a studio like Warners, which was willing to let him spend. But at the July 2005 Comic-Con International in San Diego, perhaps in a heady state of jet lag from his long flight from the "Superman" set in Australia, Singer launched the film's marketing campaign on a spectacularly wrong foot, happily proclaiming that the movie he was shooting was the studio's most expensive movie ever and might cost $250 million. From that moment on, Warners marketing tried to manage that number.

In fact, Warners failed to get out from behind that disastrous budget. The Internet ran rampant with reports that the movie was in the $300 million range. When the studio admitted to writing off about $60 million in costs from all the previous iterations of "Superman," some reporters added that to the studio's official $209 million budget -- a figure no one ever believed. If Warners had convinced Singer from the start to make a movie closer to two hours, it might have saved some money and come out ahead, instead of leaving entire $10 million sequences on the cutting-room floor.

"'Superman Returns' will be profitable for us," says Warner Bros. production president Jeff Robinov. "We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture. We believe in Bryan and the franchise. Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made."

But what really mattered to Warners was the successful relaunch of its franchise, and to that end they wanted to keep their director happy -- even if it meant letting him deliver a two-hour, 40-minute movie. "If Warners goes ahead with the 'Superman Returns' sequel," says producer Don Murphy ("From Hell"), "then they've ended up well because they've gone from having a wannabe franchise to a real franchise."

Returning to Comic-Con in July, Singer announced that he and Warners are in discussions about doing the sequel for 2009. But Singer said he "had certain issues" with Warners' marketing campaign. He also acknowledged his film's competition. "We had a little 'Pirates' and a little 'Prada.' It is a chick flick to some degree; it is a love story."

As challenging as it was for Singer to re-establish "Superman" by building on Richard Donner's 1978 classic, he also was working with a decidedly retro hero from a bygone time. There was little that Warners marketing could do to make Superman seem less square, wholesome and, finally, old-fashioned. (The "X-Men" and "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchises do seem younger, hipper and more dangerous.) Choosing to reprise Lex Luthor might have been a too-familiar choice as well. "Bryan kicked ass," journalist Cheo Hodari Coker says. "But the principal argument does hold: Does the world really need Superman? Clark is a big blue Boy Scout. I wonder if this generation really has any heroes. Everyone is pushing in some way to be unheroic."

But Singer does know where he has to go with the sequel. He told Comic-Can fans that he would add more "scary sci-fi in the next movie." "We can now go to into the action realm."

While some "Superman Returns" viewers objected to the addition of an illegitimate child of Lois Lane and Superman (which never appeared in any of the comic books), Singer intends to proceed with that story arc. "There's a lot of room to go with that character and his upbringing and human background and Krypton heritage," he says. "He's the genetic material of both parents. Superman doesn't have that. It's hard to write for Superman. He's a tough character to create insurmountable obstacles for. This one is unique and insurmountable." For the sequel, Singer will be able to expand and play around with what he's introduced, and "bring in more of the energy" of the contemporary comics, he promised.

Singer likely will do another movie before the sequel to "Superman Returns," according to sources, possibly Warner Independent's "The Mayor of Castro Street" or "Logan's Run" at the big studio. Finally, though, Warners president Alan Horn and production chief Jeff Robinov want this tentpole director to be making movies on their lot -- and not Fox's. And that may, in the long run, be the real payoff to their "Superman Returns" investment.
 
all the ang lee hulk fans know how much of a dejavu this is.
 
Re: Hollywood Reporter article...

X3: 1, SR: 0

But if WB's intention was to keep Singer exclusively at their studio, then they probably don't care too much about SR's BO performance.
 
Yeah Superman will return... Probably with Singer directing again.
 
Lestat74 said:
Interesting article from this mornning's Hollywood reporter...many people here will scream it's just a Spin piece, but as far as I know Warners has no financial stake at the Hollywood Reporter ( unlike, say...Entertainment Weekly ) It does seem that Warners does indeed wish to keep Bryan Singer after all....

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/risky_business_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003019246
QUOTE]

Great read, but FOX had barely managed to keep that high-powered cast together this long, so it was kinda riddiculous to think it would continue. The Magneto and Wolverine films were LONG ago discussed, so I think the conclusions about jumping into another Xmen 4 film where a bit out of whack. If Xmen III would have made Spider-Man like numbers....what would have been the impact? Spider-Man like paychecks for a huge cast, which would have skyrocketed the budget for the next film, so I don't think FOX had any real intention of bringing back this full cast...too many stars.

Best of luck to WB in their quest to get launch another Superman film, but I'd like to point out that 2009 might be a bit tough if Singer takes on Logan's Run.
 
Retroman said:
This article is worthy of its own thread imo.:up:

Agreed retroman. Finally an article that is fair on Returns....

I don't understand how people can believe that Singer wouldn't be back for another Superman movie....It's not like this movie made $50 mill or something!!!

It was great to read it RIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH: "'Superman Returns' will be profitable for us," says Warner Bros. production president Jeff Robinov. "We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture. We believe in Bryan and the franchise. Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made."
:up:

Thats whats been needed since the movie came out....Singer needs some support from the big dogs.

:supes:
 
CoreyIAN said:
wow,i can't believe superman returns haven't even crossed the 200 million mark yet.

thank god i didn't watch it in theaters. Probably wait for the DVD instead.

well,we all know who's the winner between x3 and superman returns.

x3 totally beaten superman returns.

Yes it did, but it's comparing APPLES to ORANGES. X3 was the SECOND sequel to 2 hit movies. Superman Returns is a re-launch dude. Not fair to compare the two....Same as Returns to Pirates.

I saw both X3 and Returns SEVRAL times...IMHO, Returns is a WAY BETTER MOVIE. I don't even care to see Ratner's X3 on DVD. X3 was a mess, but made money because of the foundation Singer laid.
 
Lestat74 said:
Interesting article from this mornning's Hollywood reporter...many people here will scream it's just a Spin piece, but as far as I know Warners has no financial stake at the Hollywood Reporter ( unlike, say...Entertainment Weekly ) It does seem that Warners does indeed wish to keep Bryan Singer after all....

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/risky_business_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003019246

this is a real good article, gives a complete picture of what's been happening between the X3 and SR franchises that most of us here only heard about in the rumour mill.

Aug. 18, 2006


Fox got bigger hit, but WB happy with Singer

By Anne Thompson

As summer nears its end, "X-Men: The Last Stand," which nabbed middling reviews, seems to have exceeded expectations with a $441 million worldwide gross, while "Superman Returns" -- though it earned a strong, positive ranking of 76% on RottenTomatoes.com -- has yet to break the $200 million mark domestically. Although "Superman" is still playing overseas with a $347 million worldwide gross to date, it has failed to return on its lofty expectations. The drama behind Bryan Singer's departure from 20th Century Fox's "X-Men" franchise to direct "Superman" for Warner Bros. Pictures left much Sturm und Drang in its wake. But who were the real winners and losers on this deal?

Warners was delighted to poach Singer -- a proven tentpole director with a canny understanding of the action-adventure universe -- from Fox. He was available because Fox Filmed Entertainment co-chairman Tom Rothman had been playing a game of chicken with him on his "Last Stand" deal: Singer wanted to cash in on the final installment of the "X-Men" saga. When Warners lured Singer away with the chance to direct "Superman" and a top-dollar deal -- sources say it was $10 million vs. 7% of the gross -- Rothman was livid. He promptly shut down Singer's Bad Hat Harry Prods. office on the Fox lot -- though Singer returned the next day to the Fox set of his TV series "House."

"We were in a heightened emotional state of mind," Fox president Hutch Parker says. "We believed that Bryan was going to do 'X-Men 3,' and when he made a different choice, it was scary and daunting to be losing someone so essential to the expression of the franchise. We had to rethink how to approach this. There was a lot of anxiety for everybody."

now i completely understand where the hate for Rothman comes from. yes he is an idiot for letting the other camp steal their prized possesion. guess you'll never know what you have until you lose it. if Singer had stayed with X3 the possibility of an X4 would have a bit more steam to it like what the potential Spidey4 has right now, no to mention that a Wolverine and Magneto spinoffs could have the same creative resources as the previous X-Men films had, making the whole franchise more consistent in terms of style and storytelling.


Rather than wait for Singer, Fox made the decision to go full steam ahead. "We needed the movie," Parker says, "and it was critical that it get made in that window. We were wary about where the comic movie would be in the larger cycle."

Fox first proceeded with director Matthew Vaughn and then Brett Ratner to meet the tentpole's original May 26 release date. But it cost the studio to make that target. (According to sources close to the movie, "Last Stand" cost about $168 million after tax rebates.) Producer Lauren Shuler Donner shouldered the burden of wrestling the movie into submission; the studio rushed two pricey screenwriters, Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg, to complete their scripts; and the studio paid dearly to get elaborate visual effects from about six FX houses, including Weta Digital, finished in time. In the short term, the studio clearly won the summer 2006 battle with Warners. But where is the "X-Men" franchise going forward?

so instead of Fox saving money by pussyfooting around Singer they actually wound up spending more because they needed X3 for their bottom line. great management there bravo. :rolleyes:

Freed from Fox's tough budget controls ("X-Men" cost $80 million and "X-Men 2" $120 million),
so essentially with SR's budget you could make two summer tentpole movies. no wonder everybody was gawking at SR's pricetag.

Singer was ecstatic to be moving to a studio like Warners, which was willing to let him spend. But at the July 2005 Comic-Con International in San Diego, perhaps in a heady state of jet lag from his long flight from the "Superman" set in Australia, Singer launched the film's marketing campaign on a spectacularly wrong foot, happily proclaiming that the movie he was shooting was the studio's most expensive movie ever and might cost $250 million. From that moment on, Warners marketing tried to manage that number.
is this the spin from the marketing dept? Singer pinned the blame on them at this years SDCC, so they're returning the favor by bringing up that brouhaha from last year?

In fact, Warners failed to get out from behind that disastrous budget. The Internet ran rampant with reports that the movie was in the $300 million range. When the studio admitted to writing off about $60 million in costs from all the previous iterations of "Superman," some reporters added that to the studio's official $209 million budget -- a figure no one ever believed. If Warners had convinced Singer from the start to make a movie closer to two hours, it might have saved some money and come out ahead, instead of leaving entire $10 million sequences on the cutting-room floor.
that sequence is obviously the opening scene of Krypton's remains. i agree that the story could've been thought out better so that they can include this, but to me it has nothing to do with the running time. i cant see how you can keep all the action set pieces currently in SR, add this Krypton sequence and still come up with an intelligent coherent story under two hours. again its spin.

"'Superman Returns' will be profitable for us," says Warner Bros. production president Jeff Robinov. "We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture. We believe in Bryan and the franchise. Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made."
emotoional? you bet. who would ever have thought that the day would come when Supes out emo'd Peter Parker? realistic? uh, Robinov must have faulty memory or something, how can he possibly forget that cop movie with a walking Bat?

But what really mattered to Warners was the successful relaunch of its franchise, and to that end they wanted to keep their director happy -- even if it meant letting him deliver a two-hour, 40-minute movie. "If Warners goes ahead with the 'Superman Returns' sequel," says producer Don Murphy ("From Hell"), "then they've ended up well because they've gone from having a wannabe franchise to a real franchise."
that's one good thing that came out from all this mess.

As challenging as it was for Singer to re-establish "Superman" by building on Richard Donner's 1978 classic, he also was working with a decidedly retro hero from a bygone time. There was little that Warners marketing could do to make Superman seem less square, wholesome and, finally, old-fashioned. (The "X-Men" and "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchises do seem younger, hipper and more dangerous.) Choosing to reprise Lex Luthor might have been a too-familiar choice as well.
whoah there. are they blaming the Art Director now? and Kevin Spacey? those are the few points that everybody who's seen SR actually agree on. bah more spin.

"Bryan kicked ass," journalist Cheo Hodari Coker says. "But the principal argument does hold: Does the world really need Superman? Clark is a big blue Boy Scout. I wonder if this generation really has any heroes. Everyone is pushing in some way to be unheroic."
this is where a great marketing team would've really helped: make being a goody-two-shoes cool again.

But Singer does know where he has to go with the sequel. He told Comic-Can fans that he would add more "scary sci-fi in the next movie." "We can now go to into the action realm."

While some "Superman Returns" viewers objected to the addition of an illegitimate child of Lois Lane and Superman (which never appeared in any of the comic books), Singer intends to proceed with that story arc. "There's a lot of room to go with that character and his upbringing and human background and Krypton heritage," he says. "He's the genetic material of both parents. Superman doesn't have that. It's hard to write for Superman. He's a tough character to create insurmountable obstacles for. This one is unique and insurmountable." For the sequel, Singer will be able to expand and play around with what he's introduced, and "bring in more of the energy" of the contemporary comics, he promised.
i had suspected that this is the direction Singer wanted to take the franchise when he brought Jason in. as i have said countless times before, i have no problems with Superman having a child, its how the child was brought into this world and timing by which the child was introduced-- i really would've preffered that the whole Superman's child angle be introduced in the sequels, not in the first film outing after a 20 year hiatus.

Singer likely will do another movie before the sequel to "Superman Returns," according to sources, possibly Warner Independent's "The Mayor of Castro Street" or "Logan's Run" at the big studio. Finally, though, Warners president Alan Horn and production chief Jeff Robinov want this tentpole director to be making movies on their lot -- and not Fox's. And that may, in the long run, be the real payoff to their "Superman Returns" investment.
and that there is the truth.
 
CoreyIAN said:
that is so ironic because SR is not a re-launch.It is a continution of Superman 2.

Singer just make use of the foundation the Donner films had laid out.

since i have not seen SR,i shall not pass judgement on it.

but i personally feel that superman is kind of a retro hero.He's like so eighties.

and who needs superman when you have spiderman,x-men or even fantastic four around.

superman just pales in comparision to these mighty heroes.

I TRULY hope you are joking. If you are, good job. If you aren't? Wow.
 
CoreyIAN said:
that is so ironic because SR is not a re-launch.It is a continution of Superman 2.

Singer just make use of the foundation the Donner films had laid out.

since i have not seen SR,i shall not pass judgement on it.

but i personally feel that superman is kind of a retro hero.He's like so eighties.

and who needs superman when you have spiderman,x-men or even fantastic four around.

superman just pales in comparision to these mighty heroes.

Uh. . . Superman has been around since 1938. . .way before Spiderman, X-Men and Fantastic Four. He's the daddy of them all :rolleyes:
 

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