Without Batman, what've you got?

[Flash525]

My comic-book lore isn't what I'd imagine half as knowledgeable as some others of you here, everything I know of it comes through research, usually after watching a film or hearing about a character. I've never actually read a single comic book.

In any case, if my knowledge is remotely correct, the original Justice League line-up was as follows:

• Batman
• Superman
• Wonder Woman
• Martian Manhunter
• Aquaman
• Flash (Barry Allen)
• Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)

Then came the New 52, which essentially just replaced Martian Manhunter with Cyborg as the original line-up. The current line-up removes Hal Jordan, and replaces him with Simon Baz & Jessica Cruz.

Now, Bruce Wayne is obviously present in all of this, and yet (as far as I'm aware) it's still up in the air as to whether Ben Affleck wishes to resume the role of Batman within the DCEU (whenever the caped crusader is expected to show up again).

If Affleck is out, and if DC/WB decide (for whatever reason) not to recast, is there a version of the Justice League that exists without Batman? If so, who steps in?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

JLA: Year One (1998) gave a post-Crisis origin for the JLA without Batman (or Superman) as actual members and with Wonder Woman not existing at all at that point.

JLA: Year One was a twelve-issue maxi-series that re-imagined the origins of the Justice League of America for the rebooted Post-Crisis environment. In this restructured continuity, Wonder Woman was no longer a founding member of the JLA, having been replaced by the Black Canary. Infinite Crisis retcons this aspect of JLA history later, re-inserting Wonder Woman into the team's history as per Justice League of America (Volume 2) #0. Also, the roles of Batman and Superman are marginalized in this series, casting them as part of the team's support group, without making them official members.


http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/JLA:_Year_One_Vol_1

The line-up was Flash (Barry Allen), Martian Manhunter, Black Canary, Green Lantern (Hal Jordon), and Aquaman.

JLA: Year One is a damned good read, btw.

 

[Flash525]

So Wonder Woman is replaced with Black Canary, and both Batman & Superman are out? What about Green Arrow (if Black Canary is on the team?)

In any case, getting rid of one titular hero is one thing, but three of them; for the DCEU no less, seems unlikely.

 

[Micromind]

We can have -


Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Black Canary and Power Girl (or Hawk Girl).

 

[Flash525]

I was thinking of where DC/WB could go if Affleck didn't want to reprise the role, but they (DC/WB) wished to proceed with their DCEU JL; who could step in for Batman (if anyone). I'd love to see Hawkgirl on the JL roster, but think she needs an origin film first, and I suppose they can later add in Shazam if they wished too.

Neither however are replacements for Batman. I'd say the Green Arrow has potential, but that element of replacement has already happened on the CW and within the Arrowverse. Not sure it would transition well on the big screen.

 

[Micromind]

Yeah while Green Arrow might be able to deliver on action level, he is not a Detective or a strategic thinker like Batman.


Maybe, Green Arrow + Question = Batman. (even then I'm not sure)

 

[Micromind]

Other replacements for Superman and Wonder Woman are watered down substitutes. And there's no replacement available for Flash.

 

[psylockolussus]

Aquaman
Cyborg
Hawkgirl
Flash
Martian Manhunter
Superman
Wonder Woman

 

[Bayne]

There's no reason the JL has to be based on a specific pre-existing line-up, nor is it automatically required to have a super gadeteer/detective. All that matters is to have a good mix of characters who work well in the story.

Granted Bats, Supes and Wonder Woman are by far the most iconic members, so you typically want at least one of them around, but Gadot has that covered in spades regardless.

Personally I'd love to see them finally do justice to Steel in live action, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

 

[Flash525]

There's no reason the JL has to be based on a specific pre-existing line-up, nor is it automatically required to have a super gadeteer/detective. All that matters is to have a good mix of characters who work well in the story.

Most film-goers can at least associate(?) with the characters of Batman & Superman, so they'd probably be expecting them both. Granted the film wasn't exactly received well, but I'd think it would have suffered more if the line-up was a bunch of randoms, most of which had never before been heard about.

Granted Bats, Supes and Wonder Woman are by far the most iconic members, so you typically want at least one of them around, but Gadot has that covered in spades regardless.

That's the thing; we could have had the initial JL film without Cyborg, Aquaman or Flash (as we did Green Lantern) and people (for the most part) will accept it, but if they launched the DCEU JL without Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman, it's not quite going to work out and be favourable.

Personally I'd love to see them finally do justice to Steel in live action, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

What's that about?

 

[Bayne]

Most film-goers can at least associate(?) with the characters of Batman & Superman, so they'd probably be expecting them both. Granted the film wasn't exactly received well, but I'd think it would have suffered more if the line-up was a bunch of randoms, most of which had never before been heard about.

That's the thing; we could have had the initial JL film without Cyborg, Aquaman or Flash (as we did Green Lantern) and people (for the most part) will accept it, but if they launched the DCEU JL without Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman, it's not quite going to work out and be favourable.

Maybe you could make that argument about the first movie. Personally I think with the right quality (writing, directing, etc) anything is possible.

But the first movie's already been made, and pretty much everyone agreed that Wonder Woman was by far the best part of it (and the best part of BvS, and her solo movie is the only uncontroversially popular solo movie in the dceu). As long as she's still here, no one would really miss Affleck. Even if Cavill left (which as far as I know isn't happening, is it), she would still be the one people went to see the movie for.

What's that about?

If you're asking why I don't think its happening, it's because they've already written his classic origin story out of continuity entirely and no one at WB seems to have ever even uttered his name as a possibility up to this point. The most logical entry point has passed. Worse, with Cyborg being arguably the least popular character in the jl movie and the old steel movie being a literal joke, I fear some moron in an executive room may have already decided people don't want to see a black character with super technology.

 

[Flash525]

Maybe you could make that argument about the first movie. Personally I think with the right quality (writing, directing, etc) anything is possible.

But the first movie's already been made, and pretty much everyone agreed that Wonder Woman was by far the best part of it (and the best part of BvS, and her solo movie is the only uncontroversially popular solo movie in the dceu). As long as she's still here, no one would really miss Affleck. Even if Cavill left (which as far as I know isn't happening, is it), she would still be the one people went to see the movie for.

I suppose you're right, especially as we've already had the JL launch. I don't think it's that people would miss Affleck or Cavill so much that they'd miss Batman and Superman; of the supporting characters, I probably enjoyed Aquaman more than Cyborg and Flash.

If they were to shuffle the JL, they'd need a few origin stories between JL and the sequel to it - they'd also have to explain away Batman too. I figure, if it come to it, they'll simply recast. They're not going to leave Batman out of fighting Darkseid.

If you're asking why I don't think its happening, it's because they've already written his classic origin story out of continuity entirely and no one at WB seems to have ever even uttered his name as a possibility up to this point. The most logical entry point has passed. Worse, with Cyborg being arguably the least popular character in the jl movie and the old steel movie being a literal joke, I fear some moron in an executive room may have already decided people don't want to see a black character with super technology.

Hah, no, sorry. When you said Justice in Steel, I thought that was the title to a comic story or something and was asking what it was about.

Hopefully though, if/when DC/WB get around to introducing the likes of Green Lanturns and Hawkgirl, they'll choose John Stewart (thus cast someone black) and they'll likewise choose someone of darker skin tone for the role of Hawkgirl. I figure these two characters are mot likely the next two to be featured in a JL film - with the addition of Shazam maybe(?)

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

We can have -


Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Black Canary and Power Girl (or Hawk Girl).

I want Hawkgirl!

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Yeah while Green Arrow might be able to deliver on action level, he is not a Detective or a strategic thinker like Batman.


Maybe, Green Arrow + Question = Batman. (even then I'm not sure)

The only other costumed supreme strategist I can think of is Deathstroke (former elite military, 90% brain capacity) - but I can't see him in the League!

 

[The Caped Knight]

Honestly it’s tough to say, without The Dark Knight or Man Of Steel, I don’t think they have a leg to stand on. At this point, a restart button seems inevitable

 

[Mandon Knight]

For a general audience, you need a 'way in' but given they haven't taken to this iteration of Batman or Superman sadly, it looks like you can do without and carry on.

 

[The Guard]

There are so many great characters with mythologies to mine.

In a world where DEADPOOL and other relatively unknown properies are a smash hit, I don't think this is as big an issue as some think.

 

[NHawk19]

They also have the entire JSA to start with as well. They could use it as a predecessor to the JLA.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

They also have the entire JSA to start with as well. They could use it as a predecessor to the JLA.

I'd be interested in seeing that.

 

[vantheman77]

Without Superman and Batman, you lose the big guns. It's not the Justice League without them. They are like KISS' Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons, Kirk and Spock, and John Lennon and Paul McCartney.