Wonder Woman 1984 SPOILER Review Thread

[Schlosser85]

Something else picking up steam on social media is that some are complaining about anti-Muslim/anti-Arab scenes in the film: the Egyptian guy who claims the land is his people's as a not so subtle reference to the Israeli-Palestinian issue and apparently Steve Trevor throwing something out of the car that had Islamic writing on it.

That's seriously reaching.

 

[Detective Conan]

It’s interesting. In the comics, Diana killed Maxwell Lord by snapping his neck. In the DCEU, Superman kills Zod by snapping his neck and Diana never kills Maxwell Lord here instead she beats him by giving him a preachy speech.

 

[Schlosser85]

Isn't the comics Maxwell more villainous than in the movie?

 

[CowCommando]

Sure you could view archery as purely sport, the same could be said of fencing, but Hippolyta won't let Diana practice with a sword. In the first film her opinions seem absolute. Its inconsistent to ban Diana from using a shield, but allow shooting arrows from a moving horse.
Again, if it was just this on it's own I could overlook it, but together with Hippolyta dialogue it becomes harder to ignore.
Not sure if the wording is exact, but she says:
"Diana, one day you’ll become all that you dream of and more. Your time will come Diana. And everything will be different.
...
This world is not yet ready for all that you will do. You will become a legend."
Which is a complete 180 from the overprotective mother who didn't want to believe Ares was alive and wanted to keep Diana safe and sheltered on the island.
Letting her compete in the competition and filling her head with dreams of greatness contradicts this.

Hippolyta eventually agreed to Antiope training Diana “harder than any Amazon before her” so no contradiction there. Diana had already been training under Antiope from a very young age

 

[BobJM]

Hippolyta eventually agreed to Antiope training Diana “harder than any Amazon before her” so no contradiction there. Diana had already been training under Antiope from a very young age

Hippolyta’s change of heart regarding Diana’s training wasn’t until Diana was older/a teenager though...

A very quick line from Antiope before she readies young Diana for the race, such as “Your mother approves?” and Diana waves to her mother sitting up high and tells Antiope that the queen thinks of these as games, etc. etc.

That certainly didn’t hinder my enjoyment, but I do agree with some posters that my eyebrow did raise slightly at Hippolyta’s lack of caring. No harm, no foul tho. Again, just like much of this film, maybe a second set of eyes/script polish would’ve smoothed out some of the roughness—which seems fair enough if Patty is to be believed that she was blindsided with WB pushing the release date up. There was a gem of a story/sequel there, it just got lost in the rush.

 

[Asr]

Does it bother anyone else that in four films neither Diana nor anyone else has called her Wonder Woman (although I think a cop called her that in passing)?

You can hear one of the townsfolk call her that in the first movie after she busts through the sniper tower in the small German town. But yeah, I agree with you. For the most part, the superhero names haven't been used much in the DCEU movies. Or the MCU movies either, for that matter.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Watch the first Wonder Woman again last night and its making me dislike this movie more . I know the first one wasn't perfect and the 3rd act had flaws, but I still feel like its a lot better than WW84. I still think Patty is a pretty good director and I am looking forward to her Star War film but she didn't bring her A game in this one, IMO.

 

[Primal Slayer]

This all should've been the work of a God just having fun or trying to gain enough mischief to regain coporeal form.

Sounds Like the plot for a Harry Potter film, not Wonder Woman.[/QUOTE]

Wonder Woman is all about gods and so its right up her alley.

Isn't the comics Maxwell more villainous than in the movie?

I mean..he takes control of Supermans mind and is trying to send him on a killing spree.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Something else picking up steam on social media is that some are complaining about anti-Muslim/anti-Arab scenes in the film: the Egyptian guy who claims the land is his people's as a not so subtle reference to the Israeli-Palestinian issue and apparently Steve Trevor throwing something out of the car that had Islamic writing on it.

My first time watching this was with two friends who are Arabic/from Egypt and they had zero issue apart from some of the writings being lazy

 

[Micromind]

..

Hippolyta’s change of heart regarding Diana’s training wasn’t until Diana was older/a teenager though...

A very quick line from Antiope before she readies young Diana for the race, such as “Your mother approves?” and Diana waves to her mother sitting up high and tells Antiope that the queen thinks of these as games, etc. etc.

That certainly didn’t hinder my enjoyment, but I do agree with some posters that my eyebrow did raise slightly at Hippolyta’s lack of caring. No harm, no foul tho. Again, just like much of this film, maybe a second set of eyes/script polish would’ve smoothed out some of the roughness—which seems fair enough if Patty is to be believed that she was blindsided with WB pushing the release date up. There was a gem of a story/sequel there, it just got lost in the rush.

Lily Aspell, who was 10 years old in 2017 WW movie, the other actress who played young Diana (Emily Carey) was 14 year old at that time.

But now in WW84 movie, young Diana is again played by Lily Aspell, who's now a 13 year old, so since there's not much difference between the ages of young actors in first and second movie, when they start their training with their Aunt Antiope, I think its not a very glaring omission except the fact that they are played by different actors.

 

[Havok83]

It wasnt terrible but I prefer the oriignal. Id give this a 7. It had pacing issues and went on for too long.

I didnt like Diana nearly damning the world for a man. The plot was built up as romantic but she essentially raped the dude tha Steve took over. Like how was that even seen as okay?

I was intrigued by Cheetah and thought Wiig did much better than anticipated but not enough time was put on her as a villian. This was essentially a Cheetah origin story. They spent too much time building her up and the payoff wasnt there

 

[BobJM]

..

Lily Aspell, who was 10 years old in 2017 WW movie, the other actress who played young Diana (Emily Carey) was 14 year old at that time.

But now in WW84 movie, young Diana is again played by Lily Aspell, who's now a 13 year old, so since there's not much difference between the ages of young actors in first and second movie, when they start their training with their Aunt Antiope, I think its not a very glaring omission except the fact that they are played by different actors.

That’s fair; good point.

 

[SiegePerilous]

They could have easily made him Wonder Woman Villain: Duke of Deception (in fact they reference him) and it would have been the same movie. They would have had to have given him a civilian name anyway, which is (somewhat since he was only max Lord in name anyway ) what they did.

Pascal playing the Duke of Deception would have been far preferable.

DC seems to be establishing a link between the two characters across different mediums. Here which is a pleasant surprise, and Grant Morrison's Earth One comics have Max and I suspect it's setting him up to be an Earthly disguise/alias for the Duke.

I really love Gal in this. Say what you want about the script or the other flaws of the film, but Jenkins' take on Wonder Woman makes the character so endearing. Its the little touches that really do it, like the polite pleading with the villains, such as asking Max Lord to "please" return the stone, or trying to reason with Barbara at the end of the White House confrontation. That's the kind of stuff that really evokes the spirit of the Reeve Superman and a lesser extent Evans' Captain America.

I don't really read the WW comics so I don't know how accurate that actually is to the character. I've only ever read the crossovers and most times Diana comes off way less patient with her antagonists than the Gadot version. Regardless though, I love the optimistic Diana.

She comes across as being accurate to the Diana from her own books by creators like Perez, Jimenez, Rucka, etc, less so the often tone deaf crossovers.

Agreed about Gal. I'm sort of souring on my initial feelings for the film the more I think about It (I suspect by feelings for it are going to be all over the map the next few days), but I'm willing to forgive the movie a lot for her. She really is to WW what Reeve was to Superman and Evans to Cap, even if the plotting and special effects/action leave a lot to be desired.

All four of the main cast were great and carried the film. Pine was great with Gadot as always, it's hard to be mad at Pascal since he was entertaining even though I inherently dislike Max's insertion into this, and Wiig was still the stand out to me. I'm all for Jenkins taking a step back and different screen writers, but I want Gadot and Wiig to stay.

 

[BobJM]

I didnt like Diana nearly damning the world for a man. The plot was built up as romantic but she essentially raped the dude tha Steve took over. Like how was that even seen as okay?

Agreed. I don’t mind a WW in love, but she seemed so lost without him (for decades!) and then becomes the damsel he needs to rescue when she becomes weak—I would have preferred this be Barbara, whose gaining immense strength, before she takes a villainous turn. Let her become more like Diana, and thus more desperate to hold onto that power.

Maybe Diana should have just be tempted to wish Steve back—and we could have extended sequences with him—but it’s mystical manipulation or some such. Some more Duke of Deception shenanigans.

 

[BobJM]

I do really enjoy the line Diana says to Max on the hood of his car—asking him very calmly to hand over the stone because he’s putting himself and everyone else in danger. Gal really does rock as Wonder Woman.

She’s not the strongest actress, and you need to dress up the film around her a lot, but she’s super charismatic and charming—if you give her the right moment, she has a tendency to knock it out of the park.

 

[kguillou]

Anyone know the name of that song that was playing at the gala?

 

[Holy Slapper]

Anyone know the name of that song that was playing at the gala?

Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Welcome To The Pleasuredome"

This movie had few songs from 80's despite being set in it.

 

[Another_Fool]

I do really enjoy the line Diana says to Max on the hood of his car—asking him very calmly to hand over the stone because he’s putting himself and everyone else in danger. Gal really does rock as Wonder Woman.

She’s not the strongest actress, and you need to dress up the film around her a lot, but she’s super charismatic and charming—if you give her the right moment, she has a tendency to knock it out of the park.

Oh yeah and right before that, letting one of his henchmen know the brakes still work after ripping out the steering wheel of their vehicle. Really enjoy that scene not so much for the action but rather the character traits of Diana.

 

[BobJM]

Oh yeah and right before that, letting one of his henchmen know the brakes still work after ripping out the steering wheel of their vehicle. Really enjoy that scene not so much for the action but rather the character traits of Diana.

great point here; I agree that it was well written just not filmed well.

 

[Aurakles]

Hippolyta eventually agreed to Antiope training Diana “harder than any Amazon before her” so no contradiction there. Diana had already been training under Antiope from a very young age

..

Lily Aspell, who was 10 years old in 2017 WW movie, the other actress who played young Diana (Emily Carey) was 14 year old at that time.

But now in WW84 movie, young Diana is again played by Lily Aspell, who's now a 13 year old, so since there's not much difference between the ages of young actors in first and second movie, when they start their training with their Aunt Antiope, I think its not a very glaring omission except the fact that they are played by different actors.

So are we thinking that this scene is supposed to be set after Hippolyta has found out about the secret training?
That would make more sense, but the use of Aspell had me thinking it was supposed to be prior.
The "You will become a legend" line is still a bit odd, considering Hippolyta still didn't want Diana to leave the island when Steve Trevor arrives, when she has an attitude of "it is not our concern" and "they do not deserve you".
Honestly, if they'd just given all these lines to Antiope there wouldn't be any confusion.

 

[writer0327]

Hidden somewhere in this concept of wishes of wanting more (excess) being detrimental to larger society, there is a good movie that could've been made. But it ended up a confused, bloated, lazy, unfocused, schizophrenic mess. Gal Gadot's charm is its only saving grace, but it's nowhere near enough to make this film even remotely passable.

The problems are all centered around how they wrote the Dreamstone, which weirdly became Max Lord and reduced the main antagonist into a giant plot device. Which might have been okay if they had really dug into his character and we felt some sympathy for him. Or if they provided an adequate explanation how the Dreamstone actually worked so we the audience could understand its dangers. This is where the bloated, lazy writing comes in. We don't understand the stakes for nearly 2 hours because were supposed to accept Max Lord as misguided or evil. I can imagine this went through several drafts trying to correct this obvious problem, where they should have just scrapped Max becoming the Dreamstone in the first place. It became a case of where the characters act and react based on the needs of the plot and we're just supposed to go along with it. There's really three main characters in this movie and two lack any agency (Diana and Barbara), and each character has their own motivations that don't really come into conflict with each other until Diana changes her mind about her wish at the end. And it really wasn't her that changed it, that was Steve's doing. That moment let all the air out of the heroine's arc. We needed 2.5 hours to somewhat flesh this all out and it still wasn't enough. Barbara is the only character who's motivations were portrayed somewhat well in the film but most of that is because we know this character archetype. This is all due to lazy writing.

Steve Trevor's return should have been a quick thing, maybe 1/2 an hour of screen time. The romance drags down the entire second act, although it has its moments. This whole film probably is better with one villain and the other as a sidekick, little to no Steve, and Diana's backstory as living amongst us rather than the flashback to Themyscira, which served little to no story purpose. They shoehorned a "no heroes are born from lies" moral of the story but this was clearly meant for Max, not Diana, so it comes off as insignificant moralizing when Diana says it. I'm just shocked at this whole endeavor, its just so disappointing after what was a pretty good first film.

4/10

 

[samsnee]

Another thing that bothered me: characters showing up right when they need to with no explanation how they knew when to be there. I know this happens in movies all the time but the coincidences were too much. Diana and Steve getting to the stone guy the same time as Barbara. Barbara also showing up at the White House the exact same time Lord is being kidnapped. It was just all too convenient.

 

[Detective Conan]

It really bothered me that Maxwell Lord didn’t suffer any consequences for his actions. He doesn’t die, lose his child, or even go to prison. He gets to be reunited with his son and everything is fine and that’s a big, BIG problem for me.

 

[dhandler01]

Glad to know I’m not the only one who wasn’t keen on the score. A lot of it really didn’t fit the scenes imo. Beautiful Lie worked wonderfully though.

I think Jenkins needs to work on action scenes, her action scenes just aren’t exciting enough. It’s one big reason I don’t want her on Superman.

I called the score lazy. The lack of her cello theme was such a bad decision. I think people are giving Zimmer a pass he doesn't deserve anyone could have aped his scores and made this and had it sound better. Hell I bet if you take his score from the first one, plaster it over this film then WW84 is 5-10% better.

 

[dhandler01]

Diana was looking for ways to reverse what the stone does and stop Max, Barbara realised in the Mayan book scene that all of her good fortune and life improvements lately were down to her wish with the stone, and didn’t want all of that power and attention she was now getting taken away. Pretty standard really I had no issue with it as like many things in the movie it was a very human reaction.

I dont think that is enough. It isnt a bad explanation but that is a 180 degree turn in a matter of minutes. There needs to be more than "she reads a book and gets scared". I mean even Anakin had doubts when he turned...Cheetah went all in.

Maybe that is my huge issue...the paint by numbers method they did all this. They had points in the story they needed to get to. They wrote those first and basically found the safest, easiest and most generic ways to get there. They never added any real depth or character and they really hamstrung themselves. I mean I am not even sure what WW3 can be now they left this at such a stupid point. The film has no real value, it serves no real purpose. It was a one off comic that appears out of nowhere in the middle of a story arch and has no impact whatsoever on anything.