Worst Case Scenario: Back-up Plan for the Failure of Banjo Kazooie 3.

[WhatsHisFace]

I'm glad people can still recognize the futility of facing me when they see it.

 

[hippie_hunter]

No, I'm pointing out the fact that the problem with the Wii is the same problem that the PS3 is struggling to alleviate right now. Developers just can't be bothered to expend the time and energy trying to remove the obstacles set in their path, at least fully. I'm drawing a connection between the two as a means to show that they're in the same boat.

The 360 is familiar, so developers are willing to pull out all the stops. But third party developers struggle on both systems (Wii and PS3) because they aren't fully familiar with the development process and thus sort of "give up". Hence 'Sector PS3'.

Oh....sorry

But otherwise, very true.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'm glad people can still recognize the futility of facing me when they see it.

Well it is rather futile to argue with an Xbot, a Sony ****e, a Nintendophile or any hardcore system fanboy who only sees their system as the only good one

There's absolutely no point in arguing with a person who won't listen. It's a waste of time.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

It's much easier to label people than it is to make good points.

 

[XtromaniaK]

Oh....sorry

But otherwise, very true.

So, contrary to what might have been your initial reaction (I was trying to play upon your beliefs of why the PS3's versions of games and line-up isn't as strong)... I was agreeing with your assessment. Just trying to stencil in the connection between the two for you, if you hadn't already realized this.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It's much easier to label people than it is to make good points.

No, you're a diehard fanboy. It's pointless to argue with diehard fanboys.

You constantly bash the Wii for having horrible graphics yet we see games like Super Mario Galaxy. Not only that, graphics aren't the point of the Wii. Gameplay is.

You constantly bash the Wii for not having any games yet we see Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Super Mario Galaxy, Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles, Super Paper Mario, and more on the way with Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, and there will be another Legend of Zelda entry.

You act as if horrible games on the Wii are Nintendo's fault when they aren't. Horrible games like Balls of Fury, anything EA puts out, Red Steel, etc. are the developers fault since they actually made the freaking games. Not Nintendo which had no involvement at all.

No matter how many times this is mentioned to you. You completely ignore it. It's pointless to argue with you on this because you act as if any non-Microsoft console is pure crap. The same things are said over and over and over again. I'm tired of repeating myself. It's pointless.

 

[hippie_hunter]

So, contrary to what might have been your initial reaction (I was trying to play upon your beliefs of why the PS3's versions of games and line-up isn't as strong)... I was agreeing with your assessment. Just trying to stencil in the connection between the two for you, if you hadn't already realized this.

Oh, I've known this for a long time. I've stated several times that both the Wii and the Playstation 3 suffer from lazy third party developers.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

No, you're a diehard fanboy. It's pointless to argue with diehard fanboys.

You constantly bash the Wii for having horrible graphics yet we see games like Super Mario Galaxy. Not only that, graphics aren't the point of the Wii. Gameplay is.

And in both instances, it fails. Super Mario Galaxy itself doesn't present any new gameplay that couldn't be done on other consoles. In fact, I defy you to find me one quality Wii game that couldn't be done on the Xbox360 or PS3.

You constantly bash the Wii for not having any games yet we see Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Super Mario Galaxy, Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles, Super Paper Mario, and more on the way with Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, and there will be another Legend of Zelda entry.

Even though I don't have an interest in half of those games, I'm not about to deny that they're quality titles. But they're still the same idea with "used-to-be-novelty" controls. And they don't turn the tide for the droughts of good games the system's already been subjected to this early.

You act as if horrible games on the Wii are Nintendo's fault when they aren't. Horrible games like Balls of Fury, anything EA puts out, Red Steel, etc. are the developers fault since they actually made the freaking games. Not Nintendo which had no involvement at all.

Horrible games on the Wii is mostly the fault of the developers, I don't deny that. However, it's still a problem for Nintendo nonetheless and they put themselves in that position with the direction they took. Developer fault doesn't change the fact that most Wii games are total crap.

No matter how many times this is mentioned to you. You completely ignore it. It's pointless to argue with you on this because you act as if any non-Microsoft console is pure crap. The same things are said over and over and over again. I'm tired of repeating myself. It's pointless.

Yes, any non-Microsoft console is pure crap. Which is why I went from Nintendo to Sega to Nintendo to PC gaming to Microsoft to Sega to Microsoft. It has nothing to do with the fact that the Gamecube was awful, the PS2 was less powerful than my typical family PC with no game outside of GTA3 to make me want to buy the thing, the Wii being an underpowered shovelware system or the PS3 being an overpriced, killer-Appless system.

No, it's not because Microsoft has made good decisions with stellar developers and has games and superior services that I like, it really is just completely down to name brand. If Microsoft released a next-gen console slightly more powerful than the Xbox 1 and it had a ton of crappy games, I'd be ALL over that.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Hmm, it's interesting noticing the trends on the forums I frequent. The arguments being debated here have already been settled, with most of WHF's points already refuted. That's not to debase his argument, but entire essays and editorials have been written on how games like SMG, MP3, Zack and Wiki, Wii Sports, etc. simply could not be done on other consoles--that the very nature of the Wiimote conceptually changes game design. On the PC, for example, entire genres and gameplay concepts flourish with the intuitive, tactile nature of the mouse, genres and gameplay concepts, which, not coincidentally, are generally not found on consoles. That is, until Wii. The obscure point-and-click adventure genre (home to such classic as Grim Fandago, Monkey Island, and now Zack and Wiki) is seeing a revival on Wii thanks to the IR pointer.

But yes, WHF is right that third parties are *****-footing the system, with only a few exceptions.

Now, we're getting terribly off-topic, fascinating as it may be (at least, to me it is.) If anyone would like, I'll PM some of the literature I have bookmarked. Interesting stuff.

As for BK3, there's not much else to say...

 

[GFreeman]

The idea that those games couldn't be done on any other system is moronic. You sound as bad as the dopey idiots who were saying that Twilight Princess couldn't possibly be done on any other system...with the Gamecube version sitting right there. Making the player twitch his wrist around instead of pressing a button does nothing to fundamentally alter a game to make it impossible on another system. All you'd need to do is translate "left twitch" into "a button" and you'd be fine.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

The idea that those games couldn't be done on any other system is moronic. You sound as bad as the dopey idiots who were saying that Twilight Princess couldn't possibly be done on any other system...with the Gamecube version sitting right there. Making the player twitch his wrist around instead of pressing a button does nothing to fundamentally alter a game to make it impossible on another system. All you'd need to do is translate "left twitch" into "a button" and you'd be fine.

Are you replying to me? Because I said nothing of the sort. What I said should be just a matter of common sense. Think of it this way:

We should both be able to agree that a PC control scheme and a Wiimote control scheme can bullseye a target quicker than a traditional analogue control scheme. Now, with that in mind, imagine a shooting range designed with the strengths and limitations of each control scheme in mind. No doubt, each shooting range would be distinctly different from one another. Many, if not most, would say that the shooting range of the analogue control scheme would be less demanding than the others to compensate for its slower speed. This is precisely the reason the shooting range minigame in RE4:Wii is cake compared to the RE4 (GC) and RE4 (PS2). That shoothing range was designed for a traditional control scheme, not the quicker Wiimote. Now, take the analogy but apply it conceptually to actual game design. Point is, game design changes according to what can and cannot be done. This has nothing to do with an arbitrary gesture in place of a button press (though, some would argue it makes the experience more immersive and visceral), but rather how the game world is tailored for a new range of abilities, allowing for new gameplay experiences. Zack and Wiki, a point-and-click adventure, would not be condusive to a traditional control scheme because it depends on the Wiimote for the fulfillment of its concept. That's just the very nature of the genre.

 

[GFreeman]

games like...simply could not be done on other consoles

Looks like you did. I guess time off didn't do your mind any favors.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Looks like you did. I guess time off didn't do your mind any favors.

But, as you now see in my edit, I wasn't talking about Twilight Princess or the one-diminesional replacement of a gesture over a button press. That has nothing to do with gameplay. You responded to a point I wasn't even making.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

Your half-hour late edit is a joke. Shooting? You really want to argue that shooting games don't work on the 360?

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Your half-hour late edit is a joke. Shooting? You really want to argue that shooting games don't work on the 360?

lol, that is pretty funny, considering the current state of things. But to clarify, my point wasn't that shooting games cannot be done on the 360 at all, but merely (through analogy) that game design dynamically changes according to the strengths and limitations of a variable, in this case, control. I say variable, because game design isn't entirely dependent on control. I know that. You know that. Where Zack and Wiki wouldn't suit a traditional scheme because of gameplay, Oblivion wouldn't suit the Wii because of power.

 

[SupahSaiyangirl]

The idea that those games couldn't be done on any other system is moronic. You sound as bad as the dopey idiots who were saying that Twilight Princess couldn't possibly be done on any other system...with the Gamecube version sitting right there. Making the player twitch his wrist around instead of pressing a button does nothing to fundamentally alter a game to make it impossible on another system. All you'd need to do is translate "left twitch" into "a button" and you'd be fine.

yes there are games on the wii that wouldnt work for any other system.

case in point: rayman raving rabbids

it came oout on the 360 and it tanked, you know why? THE 360 CONTROLLER does not fit with that type of game...

so its not stupid to say that some games cannot be transfered from the wii onto other systems.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

yes there are games on the wii that wouldnt work for any other system.

case in point: rayman raving rabbids

it came oout on the 360 and it tanked, you know why? THE 360 CONTROLLER does not fit with that type of game...

so its not stupid to say that some games cannot be transfered from the wii onto other systems.

I actually laughed at this post.

 

[SupahSaiyangirl]

WHF you think everything non-microsoft is funny..so what's your point?

 

[hippie_hunter]

What part of arguing with WHF is pointless and completely useless are you not getting?

You aren't going to convert him .

 

[WhatsHisFace]

If you're going to pick one Wii game that wouldn't function on another console, you should pick WarioWare or something. Then you could at least open a conversation about game controls (it would work). Picking a game that's already been ported doesn't do you any good.

 

[SupahSaiyangirl]

i'm hoping that his 360 dies on him and the only gaming console he has left is a Wii...

and i've known WHF is the equivalent of a brick wall, i was replying to gfreeman who seems to be the less thick-headed of the two.

 

[SupahSaiyangirl]

If you're going to pick one Wii game that wouldn't function on another console, you should pick WarioWare or something. Then you could at least open a conversation about game controls (it would work). Picking a game that's already been ported doesn't do you any good.

uh by pointing out a game that was ported to another system from the Wii and didnt sell very well makes more sense to me...

 

[hippie_hunter]

i'm hoping that his 360 dies on him and the only gaming console he has left is a Wii...

WHF will just buy another Xbox 360. He hates the Playstation 3 and Wii like a Nazi hates the Jews.

WHF tries playing the Wii and Playstation 3

and i've known WHF is the equivalent of a brick wall, i was replying to gfreeman who seems to be the less thick-headed of the two.

Meh, Stephen's more of a PC gamer. He tends to be an equal oppourtunity hater

 

[Purple Prancer]

ha ha ha, porteded

 

[WhatsHisFace]

uh by pointing out a game that was ported to another system from the Wii and didnt sell very well makes more sense to me...

Or it's more a testament to demographics... you know... what sales ACTUALLY show. As opposed to a console's capability. t: Crysis selling like garbage on the PC doesn't suggest that the PC can't handle the FPS genre.