Wrestling: The Action Soap Opera Thread - Part 14

[Metamorpho1977]

kurt is the man but I refuse to watch TNA. Everytime I see it in passing the production is on the level of a high school. The backstage shots are weird like there almost trying to convey a reality show but make the film quality look like a film. just weird. Kurt is just wasting his talent as long as he is in TNA.

It happened at ECW One Night Stand.

 

[Superark]

Kurt won't do it. He's just saying it to get attention like when he wanted to go to the Olympics in 2004 or have an MMA match against Randy Couture.

Mike Johnson of www.PWInsider.com mentioned today that he wasn't sure if Angle would actually go through with it or not, but he did say he saw Kurt recently and he looked in much better shape than he's seen him in a long time.

 

[Johnny Drama]

Kurt Angle is a bigger draw than Jeff Hardy was/will ever be. So that isn't the best comparison.

That's actually debatable but regardless has nothing to do with my previous comment. I am talking about their health and reliability, not their spot in the business.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I can see Kurt going out for the Olympics. How well he actully does is another matter altogether

Good for him, I just hope he realizes that he's not going to be the biggest name at those Olympic games. Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, the NBA players in Basketball, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, The Williams Sisters are all bigger and more well known than he is and all of them will likely be in London next year.

Plus, he's going to have to stay in the Olympic Village most likely. Unless you are a huge name (Federer, Nadal, The Williams Sisters and the NBA Players), you stay at the Olympic Village. Kurt Angle is not a huge name anymore. He and TNA are delusional if they think that.

Angle won't get as much mainstream attention no matter what he does as the Rock has. Hell, Chris Jericho has gotten more mainstream attention than Kurt has recently. If the talk shows had a choice between The Rock or Kurt Angle, they would all choose the Rock.

 

[Project862006]

according to John Morrison's twitter he needs neck surgery

 

[Metallo]

If Kurt Angle was ever going to return to WWE, the time to do it was last year. In a year or two, WWE won't want him back, if they even want him back now. The guy is the OLDER version of Jeff Hardy, and that makes him a bigger liability than Jeff Hardy. In 10 years, Karen Angle will be crying out to his friends via twitter asking for an intervention.

As long as he's in good condition WWE would want him back. They are going back to the well for every star with some value left because WWE hasn't been able to build new ones recently.

We've got a broken down Deadman and a part time at best HHH. Even Vince knows having some veterans around would be useful even if its to teach and put over younger guys.

Older version of Jeff Hardy? Last time I checked Angle has NEVER showed up for a PPV main event and gotten messed up. He's always been pretty dependable when he was on screen and he's a better worker than Hardy. That comparison is pretty far out there. Angle seems to have had to much to drink lately but he's never let it interfere with his work the way Hardy has.

kurt is the man but I refuse to watch TNA. Everytime I see it in passing the production is on the level of a high school. The backstage shots are weird like there almost trying to convey a reality show but make the film quality look like a film. just weird. Kurt is just wasting his talent as long as he is in TNA.

It'd be great to see Angle return to WWE and work with a few people but somebody needs to be outside of WWE trying to make the business as a whole grow. The way WWE is goign they can barely make GOOD new talent for Angle to even bother to come back to work with. And the guys that ARE good like Bryan aren't even a priority in WWE's eyes. Vince would feed Angle to his new favorite toys like Del Rio.

Kurt comes back to WWE to work with some young talents? Awesome. but that only helps WWE not the business....and WWE NEEDS other companies to help grow talent and give them diversity of experience.

Thats why WWE had such a talented roster in the 80s and 90s and why the roster seems to be suffering today. WWE is relying on homegrowing all their talent nearly from the growd up...and they aren't doing a very good job.

IF there was no TNA Awesome Kong wouldn't have gotten NEARLY as much exposure and experience competing in front of a national tv audience or with more experienced opponents like Gail Gim that could help her learn.

Lets be honest here...TNA built Kong well foer a long time. One of the few good things they've done but they did it. WWE hasn't been able to legitimately build a new major Diva star since Trish Stratus.

If WWE had tried to build Kong from the ground up TODAY they'd probably fail. Sh** they couldn't even used a monster like Vader properly AFTER he became a star in Japan and WCW. You might think TNA is bush league but in the grander scheme of things they do serve a purpose even for WWE. The same purpose WCW and ECW served in the 90s.

Last time I checked in terms of wrestling knowledge and working ability WWE's farm system hasn't produced very many Austins or Hennigs or Harts or Michaels or Undertakers the way the territories did 20 + years ago. So personally Angle and Sting going to WWE offers short term value but staying in TNA and working with other talent in a different environment has long term implications.

More places to learn and more places to work is ALWAYS good for the wrestling business.

 

[Superark]

Good for him, I just hope he realizes that he's not going to be the biggest name at those Olympic games. Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, the NBA players in Basketball, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, The Williams Sisters are all bigger and more well known than he is and all of them will likely be in London next year.

Plus, he's going to have to stay in the Olympic Village most likely. Unless you are a huge name (Federer, Nadal, The Williams Sisters and the NBA Players), you stay at the Olympic Village. Kurt Angle is not a huge name anymore. He and TNA are delusional if they think that.

Angle won't get as much mainstream attention no matter what he does as the Rock has. Hell, Chris Jericho has gotten more mainstream attention than Kurt has recently. If the talk shows had a choice between The Rock or Kurt Angle, they would all choose the Rock.

I actually think if Kurt was serious about going out for the Olympics, it woukd draw a lot of mainstream attention, especially if he had any success.

The guy was a well known WWE star for a long time and the fact he is a former Gold medal winner going out to compete again would draw him some attention

 

[Superark]

As long as he's in good condition WWE would want him back. They are goign back to the well for every star with some value left because WWE hasn't been able to build new ones recently.

We've got a broken down Deadman and a part time at best HHH. Even Vince knows having some veterans around would be useful even if its to teach and put over younger guys.

Older version of Jeff Hardy? Last time I checked Angle has NEVER showed up for a PPV main event and gotten messed up. He's always been pretty dependable when he was on screen and he's a better worker than Hardy. That comparison is pretty far out there. Angle seems to have had to much to drink lately but he's never let it interfere with his work the way Hardy has.





It'd be great to see Angle return to WWE and work with a few people but somebody needs to be outside of WWE trying to make the business as a whole grow. The way WWE is goign they can barely make GOOD new talent for Angle to even bother to come back to work with. And the guys that ARE good like Bryan aren't even a priority in WWE's eyes. Vince would feed Angle to his new favorite toys like Del Rio.

Kurt comes back to WWE to work with some young talents? Awesome. but that only helps WWE not the business....and WWE NEEDS other companies to help grow talent and give them diversity of experience.

Thats why WWE had such a talented roster in the 80s and 90s and why the roster seems to be sufferign today. WWE is relying on homegrowign all their talent nearly from the grown up...and they aren't doing a very good job.

IF there was no TNA Awesome Kong wouldn't have gotten NEARLY as much exposure and experence competing in front of a national tv audience or with more experienced opponents like Gail Gim that could help her learn.

Lets be honest here...TNA built Kong well foer a long time. One of the few good things they've done but they did it. WWE hasn't been able to legitimatly build a new major Diva star since Trish Stratus.

If WWE had tried to build Kong from the ground up TODAY they'd probably fail. Sh** they couldn't even used a monster like Vader poperly AFTER he became a star in Japan and WCW. You might think TNA is bush league but in the grander scheme of things they do serve a purpose even for WWE. The same purpose WCW and ECW served in the 90s.

Last time I checked in terms of wrestling knowledge and working ability WWE's farm system hasn't produced very many Austins or Hennigs or Harts or Michaels or Undertakers the way the territories did 20 + years ago. So personally Angle and Sting going to WWE offers short term value but staying in TNA and working with other talent in a different environment has long term implications.

More places to learn and more places to work is ALWAYS good for the wrestling business.

Agreed with everything in this post

 

[Metallo]

Agreed with everything in this post

Thanks.

I can understand people wanting Angle back in WWE but I just don't get how some people can ignore long term what more people going out and trying to help more companies means to the business and WWE.

If there were no other companies in the 70's and the 80's we wouldn't be sitting here talking about WWE and all those great matches we loved in the 80's, 90s, and early 2000's in WWE never would have happened.

Vince has a HANDFUL of success stories of grooming talent from the ground up himself. The Rock, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, and arguably John Cena. I can think of very few others on that level. Angle is one of those guys that has a natural aptitude in athletics and I'd give the Rocks UPBRINGING and family just as much credit as I'd give Vince for his talent.

Every other star learned some of their fundamentals outside of WWE. Hogan, Foley, Austin, Savage, Rude, Taker, Michaels, Hart, Guerrero, Mysterio, Benoit, Jericho, even Triple H. I'd even argue Edge and Christian learned a lot outside of WWE working in Canada and overseas. I could go on and on. Point is most off these guys had some invaluable experience in OTHER companies working with other veterans. Learning away from the WWE style probably helped them immensely when it came time to play to different crowds with different tastes and how to improvise.

WWE has had more successful stars that worked in WWE and other companies than stars that have worked solely in WWE. There's a reason for that.

WWE has better athletes than they did 20 years ago but not better workers and it shows. Bryan and Punk are two of the best workers in WWE and two of the legitimately good talents and they also had a broad range of experience outside of WWE. Thats why they are so good.

Just like I said with Kong...she's popular right now because she is UNIQUE. And she became what she is outside of WWE. If it were up to WWE to build a unique diva up from nothing they wouldn't do it today. She had to get herself noticed by people like Austin and Ross outside of WWE and she did a lot of that in TNA. Vince has ALWAYS been good at seeing another companies talent and how good they are and then bringing them into WWE teaching talent from scratch.

Vince McMahon takes great talents and makes them stars. He usually doesn't make great talents.

Kurt Angle is a bigger draw than Jeff Hardy was/will ever be. So that isn't the best comparison.

Its not so cut and dry as that. In WWE Hardy is a bigger Draw than Angle. But Angle had years to show what he was worth in WWE's main event while Hardy had JUST reached the cusp of what he could be when he left.

Hardy has that intangible megastar aura that Angle just doesn't have. Angle is by far more talented but what I'm talking about goes beyond pure mechanical ring talent. Hardy has more of that it factor. Put Hardy in a proper Wrestelmania main even scenario with the same support system Angle had and he'd probably outdraw any Mania main event Angle was ever involved in.

Its the same way a lot of guys where better wrestlers than Hogan but Hogan had that magic and that charisma in his prime.

In TNA Hardy has more POTENTIAL to be a bigger draw but so far Angle has simply proved to be more valuable to that company as a whole than Hardy has partly because they used Angle better and partly because Angle was there longer and more reliable than Hardy.

 

[venom892]

So I guess Morrison is going to be out for a few months. It sucks but they can use it to build up R-Truth's heel heat.

 

[Metallo]

Thats sucks for Morrison. Nothing worse than getting hurt right in the middle of a push.

Things like Morrisons neck injury and Chris Sabins knee injury make me think about how risky it is to set the main event of Wrestlemania 28 a year away.

Morrison and Sabin both got hurt and need surgery at the worst possible moment. A lot of things can happen to John Cena or the Rock in the next 9 months...especially Cena. Thats why I can't see him keeping the WWE title for the next 9 months. That would require a harder schedule and more wear and tear unless they took him off of or lessened his house show appearances.

If Cena were to get hurt Vince McMahon better get down on his knees and do whatever he needs to do to bring Shawn Michaels out of retirement for one night only. Thats the only match I could think of that could equal Rock vs Cena right now.

 

[Gotham Knight]

So I guess Morrison is going to be out for a few months. It sucks but they can use it to build up R-Truth's heel heat.

Some people have said that he's using it as an excuse to avoid putting over R-Truth. And honestly, with Morrison it wouldn't surprise me. And I'm not doubting that he's injured or saying that he's faking it.

 

[Superark]

Credit to www.PWInsider.com



KEVIN NASH COMMENTS ON THE EVER-SADDENING SCOTT HALL SITUATION
by John Pollock @ 1:16 PM on 5/9/2011

Kevin Nash appeared on The LAW Sunday night to promote the CWI 'Brawl at the Bush 2' event happening next weekend in Brantford, Ontario (www.cwiwrestling.com).

Nash spoke very openly on the show about Scott Hall and his public issues over the last number of months and below are some of the comments Nash made in regards to Hall's health right now. Nash also mentioned in passing during the interview that he had received an email that Lex Luger is now running the WWE's Wellness Policy.


The entire edition of The LAW featuring Kevin Nash can be downloaded at this link and airs Sunday nights at 11pm EST on Sirius 158.

"These people will say things like 'you need to have an intervention’ or someone said 'you need to take Scott fishing without alcohol' and no one grasps the severity of what this situation is. This is someone that has been to rehab nine times and probably walked out three to four times. He's been in and out of hospitals for the last year and a couple of times – in Providence (for a recent independent show) – what happened was Scott took a really bad fall in his house and hurt his hip really badly and of course the promoter said Hall got off the plane in a wheelchair blah, blah, blah. I talked to Scott and Scott said 'I never miss a shot and I’m going to make this shot' and I told him he sounded horrible and he said 'yeah'. Somas are the worst thing for wrestlers and I think they've killed more wrestlers than anything. He took some of those and hadn’t taken those in a long time and had a really bad reaction…they put him up there for 72-hours and the thing is Scott has been through so many hospitals, so many psych wards, evaluations and so many rehab centers that Scott knows every catch phrase and he knows exactly what the psychologist wants to hear and we’re all workers – that's what we are and in 72-hours Scott is gone.


He’s at a place right now where the peaks and valleys are so incredibly high and low and the last week he’s been at a level spot, his health is bad. I think he went in and saw some doctors and he’s not going to walk in and get a gold label of health and when you get news from doctors that your heart isn’t functioning so well, this isn’t functioning well and this isn’t functioning well and to get all that news all in one day he went into a semi bender. I can't make Scott Hall want to live, I can't make Scott Hall want to get better, I can't make Scott want to repair his relationship with his children, I can't make any of those things happen and the only one who can is Scott. When and if he does I will be the happiest person on earth. He always knows no matter what, day or night, if he needs me and really needs me or needs anything or anything of me or for him I will be there in an hour and he knows that. I can't be his therapist, I can't be his wife, I can't be his rehabilitation specialist but I can be his friend. I think he needs friends more than he needs people telling him what he has to do or not to do. Lately it’s like the ninth inning, two out, a full count and they’ve walked into the baseball game and sitting in their seat and telling us what’s been going on in the game – I've been doing this for 17-years with Scott, you don’t just jump into the game and tell me what he needs to do because you haven’t been here, you haven’t lived it, you haven't done that and Dana (Hall) has. A lot of people think she’s a crack pot but people forget she has two children with the man, that’s real flesh and blood and Cassidy and Cody are great kids and they deserve better but at the same time Scott – people think Scott's problem is he likes to get drunk and likes to take drugs and he's an addict and he's not – he has post traumatic stress and had several incredibly horrible incidents happen in his early youth going on to his adolescence and early adulthood and he has had things happen to him that he cannot get through.

When you are trying to numb a memory that’s when you have a problem and you’re trying to forget something – that’s a problem. He’s not out being a rock star, he's making things in his mind go away because he cannot shut it off and does it for days at a time and then when he does think about it he realizes the problem is still there."

 

[PyroChamber]

WrestleZone has learned exclusively that WWE Chairman Vince McMahon is watching the crowd reaction to Kharma, the former Awesome Kong, and he's noticing the potential for a truly groundbreaking female character in WWE.

According to a key WWE insider, talent executive John Laurinaitis instructed the producers (formerly road agents) of the house shows this past weekend to have Kharma attack Eve Torres to see if the audience would react to Kharma as a heel. From what we were told, the live audience popped big for the beat down, but it's unclear whether they were "just reacting," or "reacting to Kharma as a heel." Either way, Vince knows right now that the fans are reacting to her as "a star."

Kharma, real name Kia Stevens, attacked heel Michelle McCool (real life wife of The Undertaker) at the Extreme Rules pay per view, and Maryse on Monday Night Raw to tremendous fan reaction.

It should be noted that Paul Heyman's comparison of Kharma's debut to Brock Lesnar's WWE debut was definitely noticed by people within WWE. "Vince knows he has something and someone special now, a brand new character who has captured people's attention," our key insider told us this evening, "and he's determined to make as big an impact with Kharma as possible. Very few people debut with this amount of momentum, and Vince sees nothing but dollar signs in Kharma."

WrestleZone.com

And to think, Vince originally didn't want her. The fans just wanna see some divas get put in their place.

 

[StarkvsRogers]

I must say... I'm glad that Vince still knows a star when he sees one. Kong should be fighting dudes like Chyna before this is all said and done... Or Sara Del Rey should end her monster streak!

Death Rey 4 life! haha

 

[Nemi]

I think the WWE is doing a good job with her so far. She is certainly not a WWE creation and so far they haven't punished her for that. People are reacting to her as if she's a star because she is but also because WWE is treating her like one. She's been given videos to hype her up, a good theme, a name that while isn't great isn't anywhere near as ridiculous as you'd expect from them. I hope they keep it up.

 

[Marx]

According to ewrestlingnews.com

Regarding The Undertaker's wrestling status, the mentality of WWE personnel is that he's considered retired. This explains Michelle McCool leaving to spend more time with him at home.

The Undertaker is in far worse physical shape than is being let on. While company officials aren't ruling The Deadman out for a match at WrestleMania XXVIII, he is not expected to compete before then. People close to the legend have talked to him about retiring at the event.

His health is far more important but this is a very sad day.

 

[Johnny Drama]

I must say... I'm glad that Vince still knows a star when he sees one. Kong should be fighting dudes like Chyna before this is all said and done... Or Sara Del Rey should end her monster streak!

Death Rey 4 life! haha

The problem with that is the same problem they had with Chyna. They banked on the fact that Chyna was big enough to fight men and made that her gimmick. The problem was, NOBODY in the main event wanted to loose to a woman, and Vince knew that a loss to a woman would hurt anyones credibility. Only midcard guys in the "Burial phase" (Jarrett, Jericho) did the job. You can't push a woman that fights men, especially if Vince isn't behind it.

The only time a man has ever faced a woman that resulted in anything entertaining was Beulah VS Bill Afonso. That was awesome.

 

[Nemi]

Thats sucks for Morrison. Nothing worse than getting hurt right in the middle of a push.

Things like Morrisons neck injury and Chris Sabins knee injury make me think about how risky it is to set the main event of Wrestlemania 28 a year away.

Morrison and Sabin both got hurt and need surgery at the worst possible moment. A lot of things can happen to John Cena or the Rock in the next 9 months...especially Cena. Thats why I can't see him keeping the WWE title for the next 9 months. That would require a harder schedule and more wear and tear unless they took him off of or lessened his house show appearances.

If Cena were to get hurt Vince McMahon better get down on his knees and do whatever he needs to do to bring Shawn Michaels out of retirement for one night only. Thats the only match I could think of that could equal Rock vs Cena right now.

Agreed, it's one of a few reasons why it's a very bad idea.

 

[The Sage]

according to John Morrison's twitter he needs neck surgery

How serious is it?

 

[Pink Ranger]

The problem with that is the same problem they had with Chyna. They banked on the fact that Chyna was big enough to fight men and made that her gimmick. The problem was, NOBODY in the main event wanted to loose to a woman, and Vince knew that a loss to a woman would hurt anyones credibility. Only midcard guys in the "Burial phase" (Jarrett, Jericho) did the job. You can't push a woman that fights men, especially if Vince isn't behind it.

The only time a man has ever faced a woman that resulted in anything entertaining was Beulah VS Bill Afonso. That was awesome.

Agreed in part, although I hardly think Jericho's career was ruined from his Chyna feud.

The problem with putting a big girl in a match against men is that her working style and character are now totally reversed, and don't fit in a program against a male opponent. Chyna and Kong are basically giant monster heels who wrestle as giant monster heels would do, but in the men's division they are effectively cruiserweights, but can't do any typical cruiserweight moves.

Lita kind of had the reverse problem: she was essentially trained to wrestle as a male cruiserweight, but was a lot bigger than most of the other divas of her era, which impeded her in-ring work somewhat.

 

[Kaleb]

 

[Johnny Drama]

Agreed in part, although I hardly think Jericho's career was ruined from his Chyna feud.

The problem with putting a big girl in a match against men is that her working style and character are now totally reversed, and don't fit in a program against a male opponent. Chyna and Kong are basically giant monster heels who wrestle as giant monster heels would do, but in the men's division they are effectively cruiserweights, but can't do any typical cruiserweight moves.

Lita kind of had the reverse problem: she was essentially trained to wrestle as a male cruiserweight, but was a lot bigger than most of the other divas of her era, which impeded her in-ring work somewhat.

I never said it ruined his career, but you have to admit that his feud with Chyna was the absolute low point in Jericho's entire career. Jericho was stuck with Chyna because WWE wasn't giving him much to do at the time and he was thankful just to get the tv time.

 

[Kaleb]

How serious is it?

John Morrison is expected to be sidelined for several months after undergoing surgery on his injured neck today, reports F4WOnline.com.

WWE orchestrated an angle last Monday on Raw where R-Truth ambushed John Morrison just prior to their scheduled match. He attacked Morrison again, leaving him immobile on the entrance ramp. The angle was set up in case Morrison needed surgery or time off. He was pulled from this weekend's tour so the severity of his injuries could be examined.

 

[Nemi]

Morrison will also be a guest on Tough Enough where he will give the contestants a speech on how lucky they are to be getting trained and be in the ring with ''These legends and Trish Stratus''