Wrestling: The Action Soap Opera Thread - - Part 15

[Dr. Evil]

Iron Sheik doesn't want anyone to know he's from Iran, otherwise, he will make them humble!

 

[Pink Ranger]

The Great Khali's time in the WWE is probably going to end soon, especially if the WWE decides to groom Jinder Mahal as the "we will promote our company to India" guy despite the fact that Jinder is actually from Canada (although he is of Indian descent).

Mahal, Santino and Rosa Mendes need to form the Secret Canadians stable.

 

[strikezone89]

Mahal, Santino and Rosa Mendes need to form the Secret Canadians stable.

I wish they would let Santino do his Russian character again. I think it would be priceless with him being tag partners with Koslov

 

[Metallo]

Mahal, Santino and Rosa Mendes need to form the Secret Canadians stable.

I had no idea Rosa Mendes was Canadian. They are insidious aren't they?
I read Big Dave crossed the southern border and got into her Canadian territory.

Sarita is another Canadian...who is apparently playing a Mexican. I'm still not clear on what her ethnicity is. Is she Hispanic?

I wish they would let Santino do his Russian character again. I think it would be priceless with him being tag partners with Koslov

Has there ever been an honest to god Russian in the American wrestling business? I'm just curious.

We've had Ukranians (and even Canadians) play Russians but I mean someone actually born IN Russia.

The existence of the USSR made it easier to muddy the waters and you could just call a the wrestlers from those Soviet satellite countries Soviets. To most Americans the terms were interchangeable back then but now that gimmick only works if the character is portrayed as Russian. Not the same if you try it now with an Estonian or Georgian.

Even if you tried it with a Russian there's a good chance it would come off as ridiculous in this day in age (see Koslov) unless the guy was an absolute badass.

I'm shocked WWE never put Koslov with Nikolai Volkoff to make some kind of joke (especially now that its almost 20 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union) or had Santino and Kozlov dress up as the Sheik and Volkoff.

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

That's a nicely painted gate!

 

[Nemi]

From Wrestlezone:

The following press release has been issued:
SPIKE TV AND TOTAL NONSTOP ACTION (TNA) WRESTLING RELAUNCH FLAGSHIP PROGRAM AS 'IMPACT WRESTLING'

Total Nonstop Action (TNA) Wrestling and Spike TV announced today that TNA's flagship program would be rebranded as IMPACT WRESTLING, beginning Thursday, May 19 at 9 p.m. (ET/PT) on SPIKE.

With the debut of "TNA iMPACT!" in 2005, TNA and SPIKE have partnered to bring U.S. television audiences the most exciting professional wrestling in the world today. TNA iMPACT! has been averaging 1.8 million viewers this year and ranks among the top programs on cable with Men 18-34 and Men 18-49 in its timeslot. In 2011, TNA is up 11% in HH rating vs.Q1 2010 and 9% in viewership of persons 2+.

"While the name change is subtle, it is also very powerful. TNA is proud to be in the wrestling business, and not afraid to say it. And, to emphasize our commitment we have added the word 'wrestling' to our already well-known 'iMPACT!' brand," said TNA chief marketing officer Al Ovadia.

In addition to rebranding IMPACT WRESTLING, TNA is launching the tagline, "WRESTLING MATTERS," a statement that reflects every aspect of TNA Wrestling, from program content to marketing to live events.

"We wanted a branding initiative that was scalable and could extend across all platforms," added Ovadia. "We asked our fans what it was about professional wrestling that they found most compelling. We learned it was no single aspect, their passion for wrestling was all-consuming. Whether it's the in-ring action, backstage brawls, the feuds or classic dramatic conflict of good vs. evil, it's the entire experience that makes 'wrestling matter.'"

"TNA is a proven ratings winner on Thursday nights for Spike, delivering a consistently large audience of hard-to-reach young men," said Brian J. Diamond, senior vice president, sports and specials, Spike TV. "We feel the new IMPACT WRESTLING branding message will resonate with our audience who crave the action-packed wrestling that only TNA can provide."

Effective immediately fans can visit www.IMPACTWRESTLING.com for exclusive news and content on the stars of IMPACT WRESTLING. Fans can also access over 300 hours of TNA programming at www.TNAOnDemand.com.

This seems more like an attempt to stick it to WWE than make an real changes within the company. Can't say I blame them though, and it certainly beats having half naked oiled up men running saying that they are there to ''entertain''.

 

[Pink Ranger]

This seems more like an attempt to stick it to WWE than make an real changes within the company. Can't say I blame them though, and it certainly beats having half naked oiled up men running saying that they are there to ''entertain''.

I think I've been to that bar. It's absolutely disgusting ...




... that they still charge me the $10 cover even though I go there every Thursday when my wife is at her book club.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

How about this, for months Vince pushed a guy who is void of charisma and has okay ring skills. That man's name is Drew McItyer. He shoved this guy down are throats, gave him a long undefeated streak, and tried everything to get him over. He's not larger than life, he's one of the most boring guys on the roster, and was booked strong. Vince pushes who he likes, it doesn't matter if you're lager than life or useless.

Drew McIntyre fits my examples perfectly, because that's exactly why he didn't get over.

People talk all the time about how so an so had to put Austin over, so and so put Rock over, so and so put Triple H over... but they were stars in their own right and DID something with it.

Drew McIntyre got himself pushed pretty well and never got over cuz he did nothing with it. Cuz outside of a look, he doesn't have much to offer.

Proves my point exactly.

 

[Nemi]

I think I've been to that bar. It's absolutely disgusting ...




... that they still charge me the $10 cover even though I go there every Thursday when my wife is at her book club.

That is disgusting, there should at least be free drinks.

Drew McIntyre fits my examples perfectly, because that's exactly why he didn't get over.

People talk all the time about how so an so had to put Austin over, so and so put Rock over, so and so put Triple H over... but they were stars in their own right and DID something with it.

Drew McIntyre got himself pushed pretty well and never got over cuz he did nothing with it. Cuz outside of a look, he doesn't have much to offer.

Proves my point exactly.

Yeah I'll take The Miz over Drew any day of the week. He's just a waste of a perfectly good accent.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Chris Benoit wasn't a bold splashy cartoon character either. Neither was Bruno Sammartino. Neither was Bob Backlund. They all proved you could ALSO make your mark as a great wrestler and you didn't have to be made in the same cookie cutter WWF mold of "gaga at the expense of in ring talent"

It is about being a great and interesting character but people CAN get by with other things if they are good enough.

The Ultimate Warrior is the flaw in the opposite end of the spectrum.

He was HUGELY popular character. A hell of a lot more over than that goof the Miz. At his peak Warrior was probably more popular than Cena on on a level with Hogan. But the Warrior DIDN'T LAST. IF what you say is true why couldn't he sustain it?

Warrior couldn't bring it in the ring and his 2 minute matches just didn't cut it in the long run. Character is probably THE most important thing but if a guy can't wrestle worth a sh** or work eventually the audience won't buy into him.

While Benoit had his share of success and was over really well at one point, he was hardly one of their "build the company around him" guys. He had his success, his little run and that was it. He was never a top guy to carry a company.

He was also one of the best "non-character" characters in my entire time of wrestling. Even though he didn't have one of those larger than life characters, he had the character of being a truly dangerous and viscous fighter in the ring. He was presented as someone who was truly dangerous to step into the ring with, and that, in it's own way, made him "larger than life" in a way. But he was still mostly an upper mid-carder who paid his dues and got a shot as a champion, but was never a TOP guy in the company.

Most other companies would never ALLOW the stuff McMahon has in the past or they certainly wouldn't make things WORSE for themselves by screwing up in public and causing a PR nightmare. When Vince McMahon PHYSICALLY threatens a reporter what the hell would you call it?

What does that have to do with what I was talking about??? I was talking about companies firing employees for badmouthing the company publicly. ANY company would do the same. Vince isn't a saint. Last I checked, I never said he was? So what exactly is your point, again?

Oh yes, that's right, your never ending crusade to badmouth Vince McMahon every opportunity you get.

When Vince McMahon publicly goads the government what would you call it? He's a egotist who thinks he can get his way because he lives in a bubble where nobody keeps him in check.

Sounds like the CEO's of LOTS of successful companies. What's your point again? How does that address my point that pretty much ANY company would terminate or discipline employees for publicly speaking out negatively against the company?

When your guys are dropping like flies from steroid related deaths I'd say its pretty f***in STUPID to fire a guy like Piper for speaking out. It only added fuel to the fire. And just to set you straight Nell Piper never really admitted WWE was SPECIFICALLY at fault. He mostly talked about promoters in general. So how was be badmouthing the company?

If the company is already in enough hot water from guys "dropping like flies", as you say, then you're going to want to avoid anything that stirs the pot. Piper may have had pure intentions, but that's the kind of topic that WWE was trying to avoid altogether.

A SMART business would have tried to address the issue from a PR standpoint because by that time there was NO WAY WWE could deny the problem of steroids and recreational drug use in wrestling. Everybody knew it and now people were dying because of drug use. Vince almost went to prison ten years before because of steroid allegations.

K? The point? I wasn't passing judgement one way or another on the quality of Vince's decisions. I was saying that ANY company would discipline employees who publicly spoke out bad against the company. I didn't say one way or another whether Vince was a good, or bad, business man. You're just stuck on your anti-Vince rant again.

Evey other sports league took action YEARS before WWE did and WWE only did because they were FORCED to. The Wellness program should have been in place by 2004. THATS what a smart company would have done but Vinnie Mac thinks he can bully anyone and still tries to halfass run his publicly traded company like some yokel outfit from the 20's in a lot of ways.

Okay, but WWE isn't a sports league. So comparing it to the action taken by NFL, MLB, etc... is false from the get go.

Again, I'm not saying whether Vince is good or bad at what he does. You're the one who has to take it personally whenever anyone halfway implies something positive towards Vince and go on your crusade.

Bret Hart said wrestlers were treated like circus animals for years but thats just part of the conspiracy right?

Owen Hart, since you didn't do this affair storyline with Debra we (WWF) are going to force (PUNISH) you to to wear this stupid Blue Blazer outfit in a desperate attempt to make fun of Hogan and WCW in a childish spiteful way.

We aren't going to let you out of your contract to join your brother. Whats that? No, you can't quit because you just bought this huge brand new house for your family that you still have to pay off. Well you gotta stay and work for us while we hang you 70 feet from the ceiling of arenas for no good reason except our own personal amusement at making fun of WCW. People love you for just being you, Owen? We don't give a sh** about that just go our there and do it.

Its all part of an IWC conspiracy though.

Again, that all sounds like any company.

Don't do what we say? Insubordination. No we won't let you out of your contract. Why? So you can go make money for our competition?

Go work for ANY company, badmouth them publicly, and refuse to follow through on their requests of you, and see what happens. Come back and let me know.

It may be wrong, it may be right, but none of that matters because we live in a CAPITALIST society and that's the way it IS. It's the same reason why the NFL cracks down on young, black, not well known athletes for getting into the slightest bit of legal trouble, but Brett Favre gets away with sexually harassing team employees. It's not about right or wrong, it's about business. Brett Favre is good for business regardless of his legal troubles. Pacman Jones making it rain at a strip club? Not so good for business.

And since you're going to flip out on me and TRY to (unsuccessfully) reverse my "it's not a sports league" argument on me (even though I'm talking about the BUSINESS of it), let me give you another example from a regular everyday American company:

My brother works for Bridgestone, and often times is traveling around the country for big company meetings and stuff. The big motto that the company has at these meetings is that "Nobody ever gets promoted at these parties - but plenty of people get fired"

Fine employees who are fine otherwise, get to one of these parties, get drunk, and make an idiot of themselves end up losing their jobs because it's BAD FOR BUSINESS. How many *teachers* lose their jobs nowadays because something comes out in their *PERSONAL* life that has nothing to do with their abilities as teachers, and they get fired because they made a personal sex tape with their spouse? Or went out to a bar and got caught on a camera phone having a drink? It's enough that it's a main point of the education courses I've taken for my teaching credential program.

Vince may be an idiot. He may be an egotistical *******. But he's also a businessman. And people coming out and bad mouthing the company, or refusing to do what their EMPLOYERS told them to do, are bad for business and will be punished.

And no, Owen Hart didn't deserve to be "let out of his contract" because his brother went to WCW.

 

[Metallo]

Drew McIntyre fits my examples perfectly, because that's exactly why he didn't get over.

People talk all the time about how so an so had to put Austin over, so and so put Rock over, so and so put Triple H over... but they were stars in their own right and DID something with it.

Drew McIntyre got himself pushed pretty well and never got over cuz he did nothing with it. Cuz outside of a look, he doesn't have much to offer.

Proves my point exactly.

Not exactly. You fail to point out that Austin and McIntyres pushes in WWE were completely different. Austins push was a slow burn. McIntyres push was MAJOR from the start. Its not the same.

Same for HHH. He got a solid push for four years before he ever became world champion. THats completely different than some of the guys today winning world title within their first year on the roster.

Drew was never going to get over because he's dull...but that doesn't mean that if someone isn't given an opportunity they can get over all on their own.

FORCING someone on the fans never works in this day in age. Thats just common sense. The fans like who they like.

Austin didn't REALLY begin to get over until someone GAVE him a chance to express himself. He was always a great worker but he was no huge star in WCW.

If Austin could get himself over as a main event star why didn't it happen in WCW?

The same is true for Triple H. WWE GAVE them the chance. They had the talent but someone had to give them a decent push too.

Triple H and Austin and Rock were GIVEN pushes by WWE and did somethign with that. They didn't get themselves over BY themselves.

All Drew McIntyre proves is you can't force a new star on the audience. The audience has to accept him/her themselves.

Austins push wasn't forcing him on the audience in a certain role. The pushed him slowly but steadily and the audience rallied behidn him and the WWE pushed him more.

McIntyre was forced on the veiwers as the next great star and future world champion. They never said anything like that with Austin or HHH when they debuted in 1995.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I never said a guy didn't need to get a chance. In fact, if you look at some of my posts in this thread, I've stated that within the last couple pages. I'm not going to repeat every word I say in every post I make.

My point is that McIntyre was GIVEN A CHANCE, and did NOTHING with it. Austin, Rock, Triple H, were given their chances, and because they had the ability and the drive, they DID something with it.

Something guys like McIntyre, Swagger, Morrison, and now R-Truth haven't done. They've all had their shots to show that they belong, and they haven't done so.

But your theory of the "force push" isn't exactly accurate either, and the example of that is Alberto Del Rio.

He's been "force pushed" down the WWE's throat, but because he actually has the capability of being a main eventer, he's succeeded with his opportunities and made something of it.

 

[Nemi]

Not exactly. You fail to point out that Austin and McIntyres pushes in WWE were completely different. Austins push was a slow burn. McIntyres push was MAJOR from the start. Its not the same.



McIntyre was forced on the veiwers as the next great star and future world champion. They never said anything like that with Austin or HHH when they debuted in 1995.

Didn't Vince personally come out and introduce him as the next big thing? Basically just flat out telling everyone that this is the guy they need to cheer for.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Didn't Vince personally come out and introduce him as the next big thing? Basically just flat out telling everyone that this is the guy they need to cheer for.

And yet... nobody did.

But of course, current day WWE fans only "cheer who their told to cheer for", right? We can't think for ourselves, right? We're just "conditioned" to accept it, right?

 

[TX85]

http://www.tnawrestling.com/news/it...-To-Mick-Foley,-Kurt-Angle,-RVD-And-Many-More

I love the few seconds long videos,Kurt Angle/Robert Roode&Tommy Dreamer's are my favs,I doubt the product will change at all But I'm starting to like this new"Impact Wrestling"/"wrestling matters.....again"campaign!!!

 

[TX85]

I cheer for McIntyre,I'm a fan and it ain't cause of Vince pushing him in his first promo!!

 

[Metallo]

While Benoit had his share of success and was over really well at one point, he was hardly one of their "build the company around him" guys. He had his success, his little run and that was it. He was never a top guy to carry a company.

Bruno WAS the top star of the company. Your point is moot. And before you say it was a different time WWWF was ALWAYS about larger than life characters compared to other territories that were more athletically inclined.

Whats your tow the line excuse for him? What about Backlund?

As for Benoit He STILL wont he title at Wrestlemania against two of the top stars of the company. using your train of thought it still never should have happened.

He was also one of the best "non-character" characters in my entire time of wrestling. Even though he didn't have one of those larger than life characters, he had the character of being a truly dangerous and viscous fighter in the ring. He was presented as someone who was truly dangerous to step into the ring with, and that, in it's own way, made him "larger than life" in a way. But he was still mostly an upper mid-carder who paid his dues and got a shot as a champion, but was never a TOP guy in the company.

Doesn't matter if he was a top guy all the time he STILL got a top spot in a top program. If what you say its true it never should have happened.

And that still doesn't change the fact that Benoit wasn't an extroverted character why had very little in the way of Mic Skills and he was STILL successful.

the same is true for Bret Hart. He WAS a top guy. THE top guy. Whats your excuse for him?

What does that have to do with what I was talking about??? I was talking about companies firing employees for badmouthing the company publicly. ANY company would do the same. Vince isn't a saint. Last I checked, I never said he was? So what exactly is your point, again?

My point is you bullsh**ting about IWC fans (the label to toss on anyone who disagrees with you) and conspiracy theories when all the stuff I just talked about is no conspiracy by internet fans but things discussed by actual WWE employees. They worked there. You didn't. I would think they know about whats going on better than you do.

Oh yes, that's right, your never ending crusade to badmouth Vince McMahon every opportunity you get.

I'm not badmouthing him when its the truth. I guess you think the US government and the has badmouthed Vince McMahon unfairly all the time too when they investigated or threatened to investigate him.

You act like WWE has you on the payroll to defend him.

I don't badmouth Vince McMahon every opportunity I get so thats a damn lie. If anything you're the one trying to make accusations about me because I disagree with you. What does that make you?

Sounds like the CEO's of LOTS of successful companies. What's your point again? How does that address my point that pretty much ANY company would terminate or discipline employees for publicly speaking out negatively against the company?

How many CEOS physically threaten other people on television for millions of people to see? I don't know what kind of world you live in but anywhere else that kind of stuff is unprofessional for any businessman and a public relations nightmare. Only someone BEGGING for their company to be damaged would do that.

AgainI ask how is it NEGATIVE when its not directed at a particular company but the business in general. McMahon's firing of Piper just proved Piper right. If Vince had nothing to fear there was no need for retaliation.

If the company is already in enough hot water from guys "dropping like flies", as you say, then you're going to want to avoid anything that stirs the pot. Piper may have had pure intentions, but that's the kind of topic that WWE was trying to avoid altogether.

Piper never mentioned WWE being solely responsible during during most of his real sports interview so what are you talking about?

WWE only brought more heat down on themselves BY firing Piper because it made them look worse.

K? The point? I wasn't passing judgement one way or another on the quality of Vince's decisions. I was saying that ANY company would discipline employees who publicly spoke out bad against the company. I didn't say one way or another whether Vince was a good, or bad, business man. You're just stuck on your anti-Vince rant again.

I guess the entire world is stuck on an anti Vince rant when WWE gets criticized right? How are you not passing judgment when you are so quick to jump to WWE's defense and ignore all the screw ups they've made? And if they didn't feel a responsibility they never would have bothered with instituting the Wellness Policy so your point is moot. If they weren't at least guilty of looking the other way whey even bother to address the issue?

Okay, but WWE isn't a sports league. So comparing it to the action taken by NFL, MLB, etc... is false from the get go.

I never said they WERE a competitive sports league but they DO employ athletes. But they DO test for drugs just like most sports leagues. Why do they do enhancement drug testing? They call themselves sports entertainment so there is an athletic component and they DO use athletic facilities and rehab centers. They aren't a sports leage but they aren't exactly some scripted television production company either.

Again, I'm not saying whether Vince is good or bad at what he does. You're the one who has to take it personally whenever anyone halfway implies something positive towards Vince and go on your crusade.

And you take it personal when someone criticizes anything they do. I'm not taking it personal but I'm not goign to turn a blind eye to their wrongdoing and ridiculous practices because I'm some WWE fanboy who tows the line and eats up anything they do with a smile.

Again, that all sounds like any company.

Er...no.

Don't do what we say? Insubordination. No we won't let you out of your contract. Why? So you can go make money for our competition?

If they are independent contractors why can't they go make money by workign for someone else as long as it doesn't interfere with what they are doing with WWE? WWE's very classification of its wrestlers makes your point ridiculous.

Go work for ANY company, badmouth them publicly, and refuse to follow through on their requests of you, and see what happens. Come back and let me know.

He didn't publicly badmouth the company so what the hell are you talking about? Owen hart simply refused a storyline that he felt encroached into his PERSONAL life. No company can do that. If they didn't like it they should have fired him. Instead they degraded him and ended up being responsible for his death. Do you (as in any company) punish your employs by risking their personal safety?

Do most companies FIRE their employees when they have a problem or do they keep them on and just make a fool out of them. I'd say most act like a business and fire them.

It may be wrong, it may be right, but none of that matters because we live in a CAPITALIST society and that's the way it IS. It's the same reason why the NFL cracks down on young, black, not well known athletes for getting into the slightest bit of legal trouble, but Brett Favre gets away with sexually harassing team employees. It's not about right or wrong, it's about business. Brett Favre is good for business regardless of his legal troubles. Pacman Jones making it rain at a strip club? Not so good for business.

And that has what to do with WWE putting Owen Harts life in jeopardy as punishment?

And since you're going to flip out on me and TRY to (unsuccessfully) reverse my "it's not a sports league" argument on me (even though I'm talking about the BUSINESS of it), let me give you another example from a regular everyday American company:

My brother works for Bridgestone, and often times is traveling around the country for big company meetings and stuff. The big motto that the company has at these meetings is that "Nobody ever gets promoted at these parties - but plenty of people get fired"

Fine employees who are fine otherwise, get to one of these parties, get drunk, and make an idiot of themselves end up losing their jobs because it's BAD FOR BUSINESS. How many *teachers* lose their jobs nowadays because something comes out in their *PERSONAL* life that has nothing to do with their abilities as teachers, and they get fired because they made a personal sex tape with their spouse? Or went out to a bar and got caught on a camera phone having a drink? It's enough that it's a main point of the education courses I've taken for my teaching credential program.

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about because nothing that Owen Hart said was publicly against the company. He was always a model employee and did what he was told except in ONE instance because his business felt they could stick THEIR nose in his family life.

And they put him in an on the job situation where he LOST his life. Hes DEAD. Thats not going to change.

How is it picking in Vince McMahon when he made a decision that got Owen Hart killed? Thats what f***in happened.

Vince may be an idiot. He may be an egotistical *******. But he's also a businessman. And people coming out and bad mouthing the company, or refusing to do what their EMPLOYERS told them to do, are bad for business and will be punished.

How did Piper badmouth company when he didn't even say WWE was solely responsible? He said promoters. How is it badmouthing the company when the issue is a LEGITIMATE problem? If it was badmouthing why did WWE start the wellness policy? because Piper was right.

How did Owen Hart badmouth the company by simply refusing a creative idea behind closed doors? So punishing Owen Hart was killing him in the kemper Arena with their negligence?

And no, Owen Hart didn't deserve to be "let out of his contract" because his brother went to WCW.

Considering they let everyone else in the family out of their contracts why NOT let Owen out. All employees should be treated equally. Owen was kept as LEVERAGE when he was in a tough financial spot.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I cheer for McIntyre,I'm a fan and it ain't cause of Vince pushing him in his first promo!!

And let's be honest here... it's not like McIntyre is the first time that a new star has been debuted as "the next big thing"

Really???! Is that what we're stooping to now? Really??!

 

[Wheels]

Drew McIntyre fits my examples perfectly, because that's exactly why he didn't get over.

People talk all the time about how so an so had to put Austin over, so and so put Rock over, so and so put Triple H over... but they were stars in their own right and DID something with it.

Drew McIntyre got himself pushed pretty well and never got over cuz he did nothing with it. Cuz outside of a look, he doesn't have much to offer.

Proves my point exactly.

MY point is Vince pushed the guy strong despite the fact he completely sucks. He's pushed far less talented people than Punk. Punk has gotten more of a reaction than Drew ever has. You can say what you want, but the crowd responds to him. If this whole "larger than life" thing is about Punk not being over that's a bunch of crap.

Now, if you said Bryan doesn't deserve a strong push, then I would have to agree unfortunately. He gets no reaction really, but Punk does.

 

[Metallo]

I never said a guy didn't need to get a chance. In fact, if you look at some of my posts in this thread, I've stated that within the last couple pages. I'm not going to repeat every word I say in every post I make.

You said they got themselves over. Thats not true. Making a WWE star is a team effort. Nobody gets themselves over. WWE has to properly promote and present them.

My point is that McIntyre was GIVEN A CHANCE, and did NOTHING with it. Austin, Rock, Triple H, were given their chances, and because they had the ability and the drive, they DID something with it.

key words being GIVEN chances. How can someone get over when they aren't given any kind of chance and are instead presented in a weak or negative light all the time?

Were the fans lining up in the streets to watch Triple H fight in a Hog pen match in the mid 90s? You tell me.

Something guys like McIntyre, Swagger, Morrison, and now R-Truth haven't done. They've all had their shots to show that they belong, and they haven't done so.

McIntyre sucks, Swagger was poorly handled for a LONG time, and Truth was a court jester for most of his run in a midcard that WWE has made meaningless. How is that getting their shots? The only one that got a shot was Mcintyre and that was sabotaged by management and creative's ineptitude by putting a HUGE burden on his shoulders and a huge amount of expectations on the audience right out off the starting gate.

The Rock was treated the same way as Drew (as the next big thing) only less severe and the fans gave him go away heat...

The Rock didn't begin to properly get over until they presented him as a more interesting character.

But your theory of the "force push" isn't exactly accurate either, and the example of that is Alberto Del Rio.

Del Rio hasn't been forced the way McIntyre was. Del Rio has lost a lot of matches and hasn't won ANY gold in the WWE. He wasn't rammed down the fans throats nearly as much as McIntyre was.

He's been "force pushed" down the WWE's throat, but because he actually has the capability of being a main eventer, he's succeeded with his opportunities and made something of it.

And he never would have gotten that opportunity if they didn't give him a push.

If he came out riding a lawnmower, stumbling around as a comedic buffoon as the lost Mexicool do you think he would be ANYWHERE near as over as a top star as he is right now?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Oh my god Metallo, you take everything SO ****ING LITERALLY.

I never said that Owen badmouthed the company. I used Owen's example of insubordination in conjunction with the examples of badmouthing the company because those are the two main examples we are talking about. I wasn't saying that Owen was badmouthing the company. Holy Christ almighty you take everything 140% literal.

Also, when have I ignored WWE's wrongdoings? Simply because I'm calling you out on stupid criticisms like the company punishing employees who speak out against it OR OR OR OR OR OR (so you don't get confused that I'm saying particular guys are doing BOTH) punishing employees for insubordination doesn't mean I'm ignoring their wrong doings.

I simply don't care to sit and nit pick everything that Vince does or doesn't do in a personal crusade to make him look bad like you do. I am well aware that Vince isn't a saint. I am well aware that Vince does bad ****. It's really not something that I care to take a personal crusade against. You do.

Also, for someone who gets mad at me for "assuming" why you like wrestling, I'm getting a little sick of you "assuming" that I just blindly eat up anything WWE "spoon feeds me" "with a smile". And you wonder why I'm quick to slap you with an IWC label? Because you're acting like the typical internet fan that I can't stand - the internet fan that automatically assumes that because someone likes something you don't, they just blindly eat it up and accept anything thrown at them.

I know what I like from wrestling, and I know what I don't like, and I point out what I don't like about the current WWE plenty. I've also refrained from the typical TNA bashing that goes on around here (save for a rare occasion where I make a joke) because I don't have the same beef with TNA that most do. I don't think it's great, but I also don't think it's the trainwreck that most do. Of course, on the rare occasion that I do make a joke about TNA (like when I made a joke about the misspelled RVD shirt that said "RDV") you were again quick to go on a rant and point out everything that Vince and WWE does wrong, as if that somehow had ANYTHING to do with the subject at hand. *THAT'S* why I say you're on a personal crusade against Vince, because just like Triple H back in the day, you just can't resist an opportunity to badmouth the guy, even if it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. You'll force it in there somehow to make it work.

And Jesus Christ, going back to the Chris Benoit debate, I never said that someone who wasn't "larger than life" couldn't enjoy success. I pointed out guys who were among some of the biggest legends in the WWE, and how they were larger than life. I never said that nobody else could have success. I've even stated on numerous occasions that pure technical wrestlers without much in the way of mic skills or character skills have a place in WWE, it's just not in the main event. Chris Benoit was an exception to that rule because he was about the best at what he did in that role, so he got a push to the title and the main event for a period of time. But he was never a TOP headlining guy that you build a company around. He's not a Cena, Rock, Austin, Hogan type of guy.

The Miz won a match in a top program against a top star at Wrestlemania as well, so according to YOUR logic, The Miz IS a big star.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

MY point is Vince pushed the guy strong despite the fact he completely sucks. He's pushed far less talented people than Punk. Punk has gotten more of a reaction than Drew ever has. You can say what you want, but the crowd responds to him. If this whole "larger than life" thing is about Punk not being over that's a bunch of crap.

Now, if you said Bryan doesn't deserve a strong push, then I would have to agree unfortunately. He gets no reaction really, but Punk does.

Again, I don't think I said that CM Punk doesn't deserve a push. Even when I hated him in SES, I said that he was a credible enough of a star to be in the main event - I just didn't want to see it because at the time, I hated him.

I'm saying that CM Punk isn't the type of guy you build a company around. He might be deserving of a push, he might be deserving of titles, and better than he got treated in the Randy Orton feud, but he's not going to carry a company like a John Cena can.

 

[Metallo]

That's a nicely painted gate!

I wonder how wide it opens and how far in it goes.

Didn't Vince personally come out and introduce him as the next big thing? Basically just flat out telling everyone that this is the guy they need to cheer for.

Yes..although I think it may have been to get him heel heat. But it had the opposite effect. You don't tell the audience someone is great unless they are.

It was the kiss of death to a guy who was already lacking. McIntyre could get better but after that a lot of people just didn't take him seriously. Doesn't help that he's the perfect aid for insomnia.

And let's be honest here... it's not like McIntyre is the first time that a new star has been debuted as "the next big thing"

Really???! Is that what we're stooping to now? Really??!

Other people fit that category and had the tools to make it work. McIntyre didn't. Its not "stooping" to anything.

And yet... nobody did.

But of course, current day WWE fans only "cheer who their told to cheer for", right? We can't think for ourselves, right? We're just "conditioned" to accept it, right?

You've been conditioned not to pay attention to anything. People said WWE TRIES to condition people. That doesn't mean EVERYONE accepts it.
What do you think they are doing when they ban the word wrestling? They are trying to change the way the audience thinks even though what we watch IS wrestling. Its like saying a horse isn't a horse. Or course it is of course.

WWE has been trying to condition the way their audience thinks on certain things for years. Even when Hogan was champion.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

The title of the next thread should be "The New Wrestling Thread: TL;DR"