WTF?!!! IP banned? HAX!!! LOL

[Drakon]

Yes, she is. She's got like, two months to go, but somehow, I don't think she's gonna come back.

To be honest, we didn't actually SET UP the infractions thing entirely--it was a feature of the software upgrade. Yes, we use it, and yes, I set up the ranks and points, but that's because it's there. And how was he supposed to know? Because he's been in trouble several times before. Just because there's a new way to keep track of misdeeds doesn't mean that past punishments go unremembered. You guys as a whole seem to REALLY misunderstand the infractions thing. All that does is make it easier for the staff to keep track of who's gotten in trouble for what, and by who's hand the law was lain. It's not some "whole new point system"--it's pretty damn close to what we've always done to keep tabs on troublemakers. Just now, it's physically incorporated into the boards, making it easier to keep track, both for moderators and administrators alike. And, pertaining to the Zer00 incident, he had other dirt besides his AD feud, but yes, that's a bit of a factor. [On average, we tend to get 4-7 reports from one of them about the other a week.]

And really I don't see how anyone would have a problem with you guys getting a little more creative with discipline. The profile probation thing isn't bad. Maybe putting some ruffians(haha, I don't think I've ever used this word in conversation) on thread probation, or even banning them from certain forums might work. And if people actually do complain, who gives a ****? I doubt these things even phase you anymore.

We've done thread probation. If you recall, Green Arrow/Movies had a conniption because Morg had done exactly that--given him thread probation for something that had nothing to do with being able to make threads. We're using the specific forum ban already, and on a few people it works.

And truth be told, yeah it does bug the holy **** out of me, even now. Between AIM, MSN, Yahoo, and ICQ, I have somewhere around 70 SHH users on my buddy lists, including moderators and other admins. Of those 70, I talk to about 30 or so on a somewhat regular basis. And of those 30, all but 6 of them can only talk about SHH when they IM me. That's why I had to take that break a while back. It's like all I was good for was SHH stuff. I know it's my fault for practically making myself the go-to guy, but for chrissakes, if we're friends, I'm sure we can talk about something besides SHH. I was proved wrong when I actually said that to a few of them in IM [there was a two and a half hour silence with one particular user].

Yeah, I caught feelings or whatever, but damnit, I think this is a valid reason. I mean, it's not that they IM me about SHH [Why's it so slow?/User X is trolling me/[link to a thread I really couldn't care about]/random other SHH related topic], but it's that THAT'S ALL THEY WANT TO TALK TO ME ABOUT. And usually, it's to complain. So yeah, complaints DO still phase me.

 

[DOG LIPS]

You go girl!

 

[Fran]

You tell em' Steve-Dave!

*punches arm* Shut up.

Spoiler

Must... remember... what movie... that's from... argh!

 

[Abaddon]

You know I completely understand that, and I can imagine how overwhleming that must be, but it's too difficult to have any kind of sympathy for you. You accepted being a mod, and when the time came you accepted being an administrator. You can't say that knowing this, the kind of person you are and the effort you're willing to make that it wasn't going to get any more stressful for you. It's part of the package, and if that means taking breaks, filtering your buddy list, etc. then so be it. I know a lot of you guys have expressed complaints about how people are whiny, and always see you as the bad guys. Then you throw out the whole "You guys don't understand", "We're damned if we do, damned if we don't". It's silly(especially when some of you guys actually do seem to forget what it's like on our end). And that brings me back to the communication thing. How hard would it be to have stickied a thread explaining the infraction system? It just feels like you guys don't even make an effort to open dialogue, and then you like you feel so alienated because of your position. I mean come on, you ever think the reason people act confused and feel like their treated unfairly is because things just aren't as clear as they should be? You reds are the law, but you're also part of the community, and it's important not to forget either. So why not make things easier for yourself, and everyone else, precious?:heart:

 

[Drakon]

I think it first appeared in Chasing Amy's deleted scenes, Fran. Or it goes back to Mallrats. I'm not sure.

You know I completely understand that, and I can imagine how overwhelming that must be, but it's too difficult to have any kind of sympathy for you. You accepted being a mod, and when the time came you accepted being an administrator. You can't say that knowing this, the kind of person you are and the effort you're willing to make that it wasn't going to get any more stressful for you. It's part of the package, and if that means taking breaks, filtering your buddy list, etc. then so be it. I know a lot of you guys have expressed complaints about how people are whiny, and always see you as the bad guys. Then you throw out the whole "You guys don't understand", "We're damned if we do, damned if we don't". It's silly(especially when some of you guys actually do seem to forget what it's like on our end). And that brings me back to the communication thing. How hard would it be to have stickied a thread explaining the infraction system? It just feels like you guys don't even make an effort to open dialogue, and then you like you feel so alienated because of your position. I mean come on, you ever think the reason people act confused and feel like their treated unfairly is because things just aren't as clear as they should be? You reds are the law, but you're also part of the community, and it's important not to forget either. So why not make things easier for yourself, and everyone else, precious?:heart:

Oh, I know exactly what I set myself up for. Granted, I kinda saw it with rose-tinted glasses, because I didn't realize just HOW much responsibility would come with it. Think of it like taking out the trash, and the trashcan is heavier than it looks, and it kinda throws you back a bit. Still not impossible, but more than you expected at first. And yes, I do have a tendancy to think that if I'm even somewhat responsible for something, that it'd fall apart without me, which is another factor as to why I ended up taking the admin job. Nothing against Dew, Mal, Excel or Mirko, but I tend to look at things like "If I am at the base of things, there's only so effed up it can get, and I have a better chance of finding/fixing it". I do it with my employers, and I do it here. It's nothing meant in offense to any of my fellow staffers, I love them all, and would probably love to work with them all in a real-life environment if the need arose, but that's just the way I am. I tend to take charge with things.

And about my buddy list thing, I was moreso complaining in the sense that "I'm more than just SHH, damnit! If we're friends/buddies, we should be able to talk about more than just that! Get off your one track minds!"

And it's not about people being "whiny" per se, but think about it--few of the people have right to complain. It'd be like double parking, then getting pissed at the cops for giving you a ticket. And of the people who DO have the right to complain about being wronged, they go about it in an immature or incorrect way, such as immediately coming back and brazenly posting with wreckless abandon, ala Zer00. Granted, he DID also do the right thing by coming to another staffer and questioning, but in his incident, it was already too late.

A good portion of the "You don't get it" thing isn't always because of unexplained moderatings--it's lack of common sense, or a total disregard of established practices, or ignorace of issues being brought up and solved in the past. For example, I've mentioned several times, in many threads, that admins nor mods can read Private Messages. After repeating it in about 7 threads and 23 IMs, I finally got sick of it and posted a link to the official vBulletin adminCP demo, and let everyone see for themselves. And I'll bet you that within the next six months, someone's gonna say "Staff can read private messages, lawls" or whatever. Or, something like JAL's situation, where yes, he does tend to get mad easily [though he's greatly improved on that recently, and for that I commend him], but people would constantly poke him with the proverbial stick, and then they'd get upset when he blew up at them. Again, that's not the right way to handle things, but in that situation, where several people would end up basically stalking him simply to push his buttons, can you really blame him for blowing up? [In that situation, punishment would still be administered evenly, but the focus would be different between the parties: JAL would be reprimanded for flaming and not reporting, whereas the other party would be in trouble for trolling.].

The reason there wasn't anything stickied about the infraction things was because, quite frankly, it wasn't really your business. It had nothing to do with your interaction within the boards, it didn't affect your ability to post, and it didn't affect the stability of the site itself. You really had no way to even mess with it. Had it been something that needed to be pointed out [like the multi-quote was], it would have been brought up and stickied [like the multi-quote was].

I can appreciate that yes, we are also posters here, but you guys need to remember that too. We're not JUST the law. We're posters, too.

 

[Abaddon]

And about my buddy list thing, I was moreso complaining in the sense that "I'm more than just SHH, damnit! If we're friends/buddies, we should be able to talk about more than just that! Get off your one track minds!"

Well then, maybe they are just SHH friends and nothing more.

And it's not about people being "whiny" per se, but think about it--few of the people have right to complain. It'd be like double parking, then getting pissed at the cops for giving you a ticket. And of the people who DO have the right to complain about being wronged, they go about it in an immature or incorrect way, such as immediately coming back and brazenly posting with wreckless abandon, ala Zer00. Granted, he DID also do the right thing by coming to another staffer and questioning, but in his incident, it was already too late.

Again, I think for the most part, the latter situations are the result of clarity issues.

A good portion of the "You don't get it" thing isn't always because of unexplained moderatings--it's lack of common sense, or a total disregard of established practices, or ignorace of issues being brought up and solved in the past. For example, I've mentioned several times, in many threads, that admins nor mods can read Private Messages. After repeating it in about 7 threads and 23 IMs, I finally got sick of it and posted a link to the official vBulletin adminCP demo, and let everyone see for themselves. And I'll bet you that within the next six months, someone's gonna say "Staff can read private messages, lawls" or whatever.

Well, stop ****ing worrying about repeating the same **** over and over again. Not everyone is going to understand that, so move on. It's not worth getting hung up over.

Or, something like JAL's situation, where yes, he does tend to get mad easily [though he's greatly improved on that recently, and for that I commend him], but people would constantly poke him with the proverbial stick, and then they'd get upset when he blew up at them. Again, that's not the right way to handle things, but in that situation, where several people would end up basically stalking him simply to push his buttons, can you really blame him for blowing up? [In that situation, punishment would still be administered evenly, but the focus would be different between the parties: JAL would be reprimanded for flaming and not reporting, whereas the other party would be in trouble for trolling.].

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

The reason there wasn't anything stickied about the infraction things was because, quite frankly, it wasn't really your business. It had nothing to do with your interaction within the boards, it didn't affect your ability to post, and it didn't affect the stability of the site itself. You really had no way to even mess with it. Had it been something that needed to be pointed out [like the multi-quote was], it would have been brought up and stickied [like the multi-quote was].

So people were just supposed to be left scratching their heads when the infraction points appeared on their profiles?

I can appreciate that yes, we are also posters here, but you guys need to remember that too. We're not JUST the law. We're posters, too.

Oh, it's much more important that you remember that.:heart:

 

[Drakon]

Well then, maybe they are just SHH friends and nothing more.

I know. Hoping against hope, all that jazz.

Again, I think for the most part, the latter situations are the result of clarity issues.

I don't think it's completely clarity, but I'll give you that.

Well, stop ****ing worrying about repeating the same **** over and over again. Not everyone is going to understand that, so move on. It's not worth getting hung up over.

Tell that to the people with two posts who make "Were's my avatar!!!????????????????????????????????????????????????????" threads.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

I was making another example.

So people were just supposed to be left scratching their heads when the infraction points appeared on their profiles?

Kinda. When we first got them, I wasn't sure if we were actually going to use the system, since it would require a bit more work at first to learn what's what with it. But just the term "infraction" should have been a clue. Not to mention that when they recieve one, they are automatically PMed by the system saying "X gave you an infraction worth Y points for Z reason".

Oh, it's much more important that you remember that.:heart:

I do. But you should as well.