X3 Box Office Tracker

[danoyse]

I agree, there was very little story development to most of the characters, however "the cure" storyline meant more to me than the premise behind X1 or X2. (Any oppressed group can relate to an 'eradication of who they are' in the name of 'helping' them out). X3 should have just focused on "the cure" and left Jean out for X4.

I agree. I thought the cure storyline was the best out of the 3 movies, but Jean seemed like they had to bring her back because of how X2 ended. Almost like an afterthought.

In reference to the 1-liners or lack of screen time, Singer did the same thing in X1 (Mystique's one line) and X2 (Lady Deathstrike's one line). Singer's X-Men focused too much on Wolverine and didn't really explore other characters to their greatest potential. Those who see X3 complain about the lack of connection between Professor X and Juggernaut in the film, however Singer did the same with Mystique and Nightcrawler. And where was Cyclops in X2? - that role was also very reduced.

Exactly...and the plotholes in this one were just as obvious as the plotholes in the first two. People are just willing to "excuse" them more because they didn't like X3 as much.

The X-Film universe is cluttered with to many characters (just like the comics), however I rather see characters appear than never show up. I enjoyed X3 tremendously. It wasn't the best film, but it was really good for the time period that Ratner was given.

Agreed again. Other superhero stories have ONE superhero...I can't imagine trying to make an X-Men movie, include all of the characters into one story, and manage to keep every fan of every character happy.

 

[BMM]

Please don't forget that Ratner had a very short amount of time in order to complete this film. If Singer was handed this film with the same amount of time that Ratner had, I don't believe he would have delivered a better film.

It's worth noting that all of the X-Men films were rushed and both X2 and The Last Stand had short production schedules. They span the same amount of time--5 months.

I agree, there was very little story development to most of the characters, however "the cure" storyline meant more to me than the premise behind X1 or X2. (Any oppressed group can relate to an 'eradication of who they are' in the name of 'helping' them out). X3 should have just focused on "the cure" and left Jean out for X4.

Yes, the Cure is a very intriguing storyline (one of the best ideas in the comics) and it should never have been crammed into one movie along with the Dark Phoenix Saga. As a result, both suffer for it.

In reference to the 1-liners or lack of screen time, Singer did the same thing in X1 (Mystique's one line) and X2 (Lady Deathstrike's one line). Singer's X-Men focused too much on Wolverine and didn't really explore other characters to their greatest potential. Those who see X3 complain about the lack of connection between Professor X and Juggernaut in the film, however Singer did the same with Mystique and Nightcrawler. And where was Cyclops in X2? - that role was also very reduced.

I don't mind the one liners so long as the characters are given more of a point of view or more to do in future films. I'm also fine with Deathstryke's minimal usage. She doesn't contribute much in the comics when against the X-Men anyway. Her comic appearances are best suited via her solo adventures against/with Wolverine. Likewise, she should be used in a Wolverine spin-off film where the depth of their relationship can be further explored. Unlike Deathstryke, however, characters such as Angel, who play a pivotal role in the main plot of The Last Stand, should have been further explored. He's a much larger character than Deathstryke or Mystique.

I don't mind that Juggernaut and Xavier's relationship isn't mentioned in The Last Stand. It could be done but it would be kind of random. Besides, simply because it's not mentioned doesn't mean it's not there. Likewise for Mystique . . . especially for Mystique. Mystique gets around in the comics. Attempting to explain her character relationships and history could fill a franchise in and of itself.

Regardless, The Last Stand made its money. Hopefully, FOX puts it to good use in the spin-offs.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Correct. Colossus got 1 line. Angel 3 scenes. Phoenix's part amounted to nearly nothing. Regardless of the amount of Character Development that went on in X1&2, elements new to the series prompted further exploration. Like why the hell would ProfX say that Jean felt like she was left behind at the end of X2 in such a way as to allude to he believing it himself? Especially after the role he had in suppressing her abilities?

What movie were you watching? Jean's role amounted to nothing? Jean was one of the best parts in X3

 

[borinquenknight]

What movie were you watching? Jean's role amounted to nothing? Jean was one of the best parts in X3

Perhaps for special effects purposes, but any other mutant could have served as a "cast cleaner". Phoenix should've been the ongoing theme for all three films or perhaps the underlying theme for the next trilogy.

 

[ntcrawler]

Correct. Colossus got 1 line. Angel 3 scenes. Phoenix's part amounted to nearly nothing.
]/quote]

She certainly didn't develop anything in the movie except for anger.

Regardless of the amount of Character Development that went on in X1&2, elements new to the series prompted further exploration. Like why the hell would ProfX say that Jean felt like she was left behind at the end of X2 in such a way as to allude to he believing it himself? Especially after the role he had in suppressing her abilities?

Except we don't know he was supressing her abilities. That whole bit about the mind blocks and repressed angry personality was something they pulled out of a hat in X3. In the first 2 films, there's nothing to indicate that the Phoenix powers are evil or sinister in any way. It's basically Jean's mutation reaching its conclusion. Having been stopped by Jean's ordeal watching her friend Annie die, it was restarted with Magneto's machine. There's no reason why she couldn't have come back and besides being dazed and confused, just be herself but alot more powerful. There are much more plausible, believable ways to make her go "dark phoenix" that would make more sense to the character. To have a character as brave and compassionate as her sacrifice herself to save all the people she loves, just to come back and immediately start killing those same people is just bizarre.
Being left behind in this case meant that she didn't feel like she contributed much to her role in combat, which is obvious since she's not a violent person at heart and her powers at that time really didn't allow her to do anything destructive. with her new Phoenix powers sure she'd be a force to be reckoned with, but even then it's hard to imagine her smashing people into walls and firing lightning at them.

 

[ntcrawler]

What movie were you watching? Jean's role amounted to nothing? Jean was one of the best parts in X3

She certainly didn't do much to help Magneto's cause. He recruited her thinking he'd be all studly and invincible when he marched on Alcatraz, but she did nothing to contribute to the battle. Only at the very end after Magneto and his army was defeated did she go into action, but at that point it was just mindless destruction and anger.

Good move, Magneto. I hope you're proud of yourself.

 

[borinquenknight]

Correct. Colossus got 1 line. Angel 3 scenes. Phoenix's part amounted to nearly nothing.
]/quote]

She certainly didn't develop anything in the movie except for anger.



Except we don't know he was supressing her abilities. That whole bit about the mind blocks and repressed angry personality was something they pulled out of a hat in X3. In the first 2 films, there's nothing to indicate that the Phoenix powers are evil or sinister in any way. It's basically Jean's mutation reaching its conclusion. Having been stopped by Jean's ordeal watching her friend Annie die, it was restarted with Magneto's machine. There's no reason why she couldn't have come back and besides being dazed and confused, just be herself but alot more powerful. There are much more plausible, believable ways to make her go "dark phoenix" that would make more sense to the character. To have a character as brave and compassionate as her sacrifice herself to save all the people she loves, just to come back and immediately start killing those same people is just bizarre.
Being left behind in this case meant that she didn't feel like she contributed much to her role in combat, which is obvious since she's not a violent person at heart and her powers at that time really didn't allow her to do anything destructive. with her new Phoenix powers sure she'd be a force to be reckoned with, but even then it's hard to imagine her smashing people into walls and firing lightning at them.

Exactly. Especially after ProfX stating that she had made her choice.

 

[ntcrawler]

Perhaps for special effects purposes, but any other mutant could have served as a "cast cleaner".

Haha, I like the way you say that. The universal tool that can help you conveniently remove other characters from the plot. Good one

Phoenix should've been the ongoing theme for all three films or perhaps the underlying theme for the next trilogy.

She sorta was, but once again we got proof that Wolverine's popularity is stronger than the power of the Phoenix

 

[ntcrawler]

Exactly. Especially after ProfX stating that she had made her choice.

Which in this case he was supporting her decision. She made a noble sacrifice, giving up her life for the others. Having held that mind link with her he would have understood that she felt this was something she needed to do, and so she marched off the plane, head held high with dignity. Scott would have done the same if he could have saved the day.

 

[borinquenknight]

Haha, I like the way you say that. The universal tool that can help you conveniently remove other characters from the plot. Good one



She sorta was, but once again we got proof that Wolverine's popularity is stronger than the power of the Phoenix

Thanks on the first line. Concerning the second one:

If they would've explored the Phoenix saga in that manner then it would've been genius to sneek an awesome plot in below the radar. It would've upped the replay value if Singer had hidden hints (ala M. Night Shamalan). But we got gourmet meal except with out the gourmet.

 

[borinquenknight]

Which in this case he was supporting her decision. She made a noble sacrifice, giving up her life for the others. Having held that mind link with her he would have understood that she felt this was something she needed to do, and so she marched off the plane, head held high with dignity. Scott would have done the same if he could have saved the day.

Exactly my point. What.......did she all of a sudden find out it wasn't all it was cracked up to be?

 

[ntcrawler]

Exactly my point. What.......did she all of a sudden find out it wasn't all it was cracked up to be?

Yeah, see she really hated them. All of them. Especially Charles and Scott. Inside there was this little voice. "Kill them, kill them, mwahahahaha". She was just being nice to them to mislead them. All those times she kissed Scott she wanted to suck the life out of him. Charles wouldn't let her use Cerebro because he knew she wanted to use it to kill everyone on the planet too. See? No wonder she was frustrated and had issues when she rose from the dead.

 

[ntcrawler]

Exactly my point. What.......did she all of a sudden find out it wasn't all it was cracked up to be?

The only thing that should have surprised Jean was that in her case, death was not a permanent thing. But at the time of course she couldn't possibly know that, so her sacrifice would still be considered heroic and noble.

 

[borinquenknight]

Yeah, see she really hated them. All of them. Especially Charles and Scott. Inside there was this little voice. "Kill them, kill them, mwahahahaha". She was just being nice to them to mislead them. All those times she kissed Scott she wanted to suck the life out of him. Charles wouldn't let her use Cerebro because he knew she wanted to use it to kill everyone on the planet too. See? No wonder she was frustrated and had issues when she rose from the dead.

Ah yes I must have missed the subplot.

 

[ntcrawler]

Thanks on the first line. Concerning the second one:

If they would've explored the Phoenix saga in that manner then it would've been genius to sneek an awesome plot in below the radar. It would've upped the replay value if Singer had hidden hints (ala M. Night Shamalan). But we got gourmet meal except with out the gourmet.

There's a writer that wrote a novel that's meant to be an alternate to X3. She explored the whole Phoenix saga in a way that's completely different from what you see in the movie, but if you're familiar with the characters, especially their strengths, you may find it a whole lot more appropriate and heroic. It really goes to great lengths not only to show the true power of the Phoenix, but the true power that is Jean Grey. And the reasons for going into dark phoenix don't involve cosmic forces, hypnotism, psychosis, or being corrupted by the hellfire club either.
Compared to the novelization for X3, whereas Jean's death and resurrection are shown to be violent and cold, turning her into a cold inhuman being who doesn't care about anything and knows she can't go back because of the sins she committed, in this other book her death is peaceful and glorious, there is no pain, and she decides to return to the mortal, physical world because she realizes that she misses... someone.

 

[borinquenknight]

There's a writer that wrote a novel that's meant to be an alternate to X3. She explored the whole Phoenix saga in a way that's completely different from what you see in the movie, but if you're familiar with the characters, especially their strengths, you may find it a whole lot more appropriate and heroic. It really goes to great lengths not only to show the true power of the Phoenix, but the true power that is Jean Grey. And the reasons for going into dark phoenix don't involve cosmic forces, hypnotism, psychosis, or being corrupted by the hellfire club either.
Compared to the novelization for X3, whereas Jean's death and resurrection are shown to be violent and cold, turning her into a cold inhuman being who doesn't care about anything and knows she can't go back because of the sins she committed, in this other book her death is peaceful and glorious, there is no pain, and she decides to return to the mortal, physical world because she realizes that she misses... someone.

Any chance you have further info on this novel? I'd like to read what the movie should've been.

 

[ntcrawler]

Any chance you have further info on this novel? I'd like to read what the movie should've been.

Absolutely. The novel is called "Grail" and the author's name is "minisoo". She's really done her research on the mythology of the Phoenix and the X-Men and it really shows. She even understands Jean Grey's dilemna because she happens to be a woman about the same age as Jean would be, so certain issues are... how shall we put it... clear to her
She also understands that death should actually serve a purpose, so she doesn't kill off characters unless it serves a point and is absolutely necessary. It's a thriller of a novel and it'll keep you glued to your seat, biting your fingernails hoping, praying that our heroes manage to get out of the messes that they're in. She did a wonderful job tying up ALL the lose ends and questions from X2, including touching on the fallout from the "blackout", that moment whene ALL the mutants and then ALL the humans were left clutching their heads on the ground screaming in agony. She also answers that big question: why did Jean get off the plane and choose to die. Betcha you wene wondering about that one. Obviously, X3 didn't bother answering that question.
She also includes the characters you know you wanted to see. Not only is NightCrawler still here, but she brings in Emma Frost, Sebastian Shaw, Nathaniel Essex, Madelyne Pryor, and even - yes - Gambit! She even accounts for why in X2 Hank McKoy looks human but later when you see him he looks like the cookie monster.
There is one subplot in the story that I found bizarre and don't agree with, but overall once you read it you'll have this sense of fulfillment, that you were there with the characters every step of the way and helped them save the day.

For a taste of her views on Jean and her role / destiny as the Phoenix, here is a brief passage:

There is ever, only one phoenix
.
Except when she refuses to rise.

The phoenix must live without mother o
father, without kith or kin, without
mate. She is alone. And that was
beyond bearing.

In choosing mortality, she chose
companionship, and love. And it's only
love that can kill a phoenix.

In the acceptance of death, she found
her true rebirth -- and her salvation. In
the acceptance of death, she found her
own grail.



After reading it, as far as I'm concerned X3 does not exist. At all. This is much closer to what should have happened based on what was already established in X1 and X2. Except for the above-mentioned subplot which I thought was bizarre, everything else fits in a way that I found to be ultimately more appropriate.

Interested? The novel is available for reading online at:

http://www.themedicinewheel.net/grail/grail.html

Spread the word!!!

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Perhaps for special effects purposes, but any other mutant could have served as a "cast cleaner". Phoenix should've been the ongoing theme for all three films or perhaps the underlying theme for the next trilogy.

again.. what are you smoking? her acting was brilliant.. she was pretty friggin scary if you asked me.. the scene in the infirmary.. the grey house... the woods where she sent the needles torwards magneto.. and the very in when she went nuts.. effect or no effect, famke would have been amazing eiter way.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

She certainly didn't do much to help Magneto's cause. He recruited her thinking he'd be all studly and invincible when he marched on Alcatraz, but she did nothing to contribute to the battle. Only at the very end after Magneto and his army was defeated did she go into action, but at that point it was just mindless destruction and anger.

Good move, Magneto. I hope you're proud of yourself.

Magneto used her as a fail safe weapon for if all else failed. And that's exactly what happened... but she was far more powerful and uncontrolable then he expected. The game was that of chest, Magneto was the King, Jean the Queen, The Queen is the most powerful piece and used to protect the king if all else fails. to be honest you could devise the whole team into chest pieces... Pyro the knight, Callisto the bishop, Juggernaut and Archlight the Rooks... and everyone else, the pawns. if you dont understand jeans purpose in the war then you really need to go rethink. its about strategy.. not all attacking at once like a foolish person. Jean is uncontrolable, if She went all crazy at the end in the begining she could have destroyed the whole brotherhood.

 

[ntcrawler]

I can see where you're coming from spideyboy but the truth is that Jean being Magneto's queen was completely pointless. Failsafe weapon? More like a doomsday weapon. Think about it for a second. why was she with Magneto in the first place? What could he possibly have promised her? He had nothing she was interested in or needed. His cause was irrelevant to her. She certainly was not threatened by any weapons that humans or mutants could use against her, and the Cure was not a threat to her at all. She had absolutely nothing to gain from helping him out. To be his queen? What was the point? Her goals and ambitions were beyond anything his little mortal mind could comprehend.

And she was more controllable than you give her credit for. When she escaped from the mansion and went back home,she did not cause a trail of destruction during her journey. In fact she was quite calm and fragile at home, almost rocking back and forth to herself like from a nightmare. Had Magneto's big mouth and Xavier's forceful attempts not set her off, most of the bad things probably wouldn't have happened. And even afterwards she was quite under control. She taunted Magneto with the cure darts but did not use them against him or anyone else. Obviously the other mutants avoided her but she did not attack or harm anyone else. during their trip from the east coast to San Francisco she did not level towns or cause mayhem either. She didn't even defend herself during the first parts of the battle. Only towards the final end did she go insane and start blowing up everything around her.
Overall, she did nothing to help Magneto or further his cause. Famke's acting was wonderful, but the whole concept behind the phoenix in X3 was IMHO out of whack. In was insanity for insanity's sake.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I can see where you're coming from spideyboy but the truth is that Jean being Magneto's queen was completely pointless. Failsafe weapon? More like a doomsday weapon. Think about it for a second. why was she with Magneto in the first place? What could he possibly have promised her? He had nothing she was interested in or needed. His cause was irrelevant to her. She certainly was not threatened by any weapons that humans or mutants could use against her, and the Cure was not a threat to her at all. She had absolutely nothing to gain from helping him out. To be his queen? What was the point? Her goals and ambitions were beyond anything his little mortal mind could comprehend..

The Phoenix had no goals and ambitions... jean was NOT in control... she was crazy, have you never seen a crazy person? There persuaded not for personal gain, but for comfort. Magneto promised her full potential, where as Xavier promised she'd be held back. That's why she went with Magneto.. and needed no other reason.

And she was more controllable than you give her credit for. When she escaped from the mansion and went back home,she did not cause a trail of destruction during her journey. In fact she was quite calm and fragile at home, almost rocking back and forth to herself like from a nightmare. Had Magneto's big mouth and Xavier's forceful attempts not set her off, most of the bad things probably wouldn't have happened. And even afterwards she was quite under control. She taunted Magneto with the cure darts but did not use them against him or anyone else. Obviously the other mutants avoided her but she did not attack or harm anyone else. during their trip from the east coast to San Francisco she did not level towns or cause mayhem either. She didn't even defend herself during the first parts of the battle. Only towards the final end did she go insane and start blowing up everything around her.
Overall, she did nothing to help Magneto or further his cause. Famke's acting was wonderful, but the whole concept behind the phoenix in X3 was IMHO out of whack. In was insanity for insanity's sake.

You do realise "not being in control" doesn't mean shes wreaking havoc and apocalyptic chaos wherever she goes... jean/phoenix acted on PURE ANIMAL INSTINCT... and went to the place she knew best. And like an animal, she didnt attack unless felt threatened. not to mention she had an acute personality dissored.. i suggest you read up on them...

 

[ntcrawler]

The Phoenix had no goals and ambitions... jean was NOT in control... she was crazy, have you never seen a crazy person?

Yes I have, worked with them, and helped one who had the same psychosis as Jean avoid committing suicide and causing harm to others on different ocassions. Jean may not have been running on all cylinders, but there are certain elements of Jean, certain aspects that did not, would not die and would resurface because they are stronger than the rage of the Phoenix. This is something that the movie failed to take into account.

You do realise "not being in control" doesn't mean shes wreaking havoc and apocalyptic chaos wherever she goes... jean/phoenix acted on PURE ANIMAL INSTINCT... and went to the place she knew best. And like an animal, she didnt attack unless felt threatened.

Yes, exactly. Which is why it was preposterous that she would have harmed Scott. He certainly was not doing anything that could be perceived by her as a threat or provocation. In fact she was quite happy to see him and felt comfort being in his arms. She also seemed to only kill Magneto's henchmen even after going completely crazy. The movie showed her as being evil for the hell of it, and in an inconsistent, bizarre way. Even animals recognize the concepts of comfort and safety and recognize when a person means them no harm.

not to mention she had an acute personality dissored.. i suggest you read up on them...

I did. It only supports what I've been saying, that the way Jean was portrayed was inconsistent and failed to take into account parts of Jean's psycho, certain instincts which would prevent her from causing the kind of random chaos, especially to the people she loves which we were forced to put up with in X3.

 

[BMM]

Magneto used her as a fail safe weapon for if all else failed. And that's exactly what happened... but she was far more powerful and uncontrolable then he expected. The game was that of chest, Magneto was the King, Jean the Queen, The Queen is the most powerful piece and used to protect the king if all else fails. to be honest you could devise the whole team into chest pieces... Pyro the knight, Callisto the bishop, Juggernaut and Archlight the Rooks... and everyone else, the pawns. if you dont understand jeans purpose in the war then you really need to go rethink. its about strategy.. not all attacking at once like a foolish person. Jean is uncontrolable, if She went all crazy at the end in the begining she could have destroyed the whole brotherhood.

I like the chess analogy. I find some of the Jean/Phoenix issues a bit conflicting. In the end, Magneto questions, "What have I done" when in actuality Magneto never has control of Jean/Phoenix in the first place--nor in the end. As is observed in the forest scene and noted by Famke in interviews, Jean isn't choosing sides. She simply has no place else to go. She doesn't aid Magneto in his war. If she wanted to, she would have done it when she wanted to do it. His lectures and stratagems are of no concern to her as is illustrated earlier in the movie. Even after Magneto's last appeal to her, via his curing by Beast and Wolverine, she stands solemn. She doesn't heed his call. She doesn't attack because of him. It isn't until after Jean is personally threatened that she retaliates . . . and even then, it is on her own behalf. I don't know. I find the Jean/Phoenix issue to be at odds with itself sometimes.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yes, exactly. Which is why it was preposterous that she would have harmed Scott. He certainly was not doing anything that could be perceived by her as a threat or provocation. In fact she was quite happy to see him and felt comfort being in his arms. She also seemed to only kill Magneto's henchmen even after going completely crazy. The movie showed her as being evil for the hell of it, and in an inconsistent, bizarre way. Even animals recognize the concepts of comfort and safety and recognize when a person means them no harm.

She just friggin blasted her way out of a telekenetic shell... as phoenix she wanted pleasure.. she wanted sex. The phoenix used jean's vulnerability in love to call out to Scott.. when scott got there she wanted pleasure, something Xavier commented on. When she was getting what she wanted, the phoenix lost control and killed scott. Nowhere did it ever say the Phoenix MENT to kill scott. Imagine her as a syrin... after she killed scott, the phoenix then used the same tricks to call out for Logan

I did. It only supports what I've been saying, that the way Jean was portrayed was inconsistent and failed to take into account parts of Jean's psycho, certain instincts which would prevent her from causing the kind of random chaos, especially to the people she loves which we were forced to put up with in X3.

Jean was uncontrolable in 2 ways..one split personality, and the other being her power... she couldnt turn it on and off all the time.. sometimes it lashed out, but it was very much influenced by her emotion... at extreme anger and rage it would lash out, as well as extreme pleasure. The phoenix was a creature of great emotion.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I like the chess analogy. I find some of the Jean/Phoenix issues a bit conflicting. In the end, Magneto questions, "What have I done" when in actuality Magneto never has control of Jean/Phoenix in the first place--nor in the end. As is observed in the forest scene and noted by Famke in interviews, Jean isn't choosing sides. She simply has no place else to go. She doesn't aid Magneto in his war. If she wanted to, she would have done it when she wanted to do it. His lectures and stratagems are of no concern to her as is illustrated earlier in the movie. Even after Magneto's last appeal to her, via his curing by Beast and Wolverine, she stands solemn. She doesn't heed his call. She doesn't attack because of him. It isn't until after Jean is personally threatened that she retaliates . . . and even then, it is on her own behalf. I don't know. I find the Jean/Phoenix issue to be at odds with itself sometimes.

No... but Magneto's arrogance is what made him think he had control of her... He let it get the best of him. When he should have never had him with her.. or helped xavier contain her. Thats why he said "what have i done" not for "causing" her to go crazy... because he didnt.

and i thought you just explained the phoenix perfectly.. i dont see where your confused.. because you pretty much nailed her. I think people get confused because there defining and tryin to understand who the phoenix is when the phoenix breaks all the rules... and by trying to gain her purpose through the eyes of another. Jean was with magneto on her own free will becuase she had "now where else to go" and Magneto was not threatening her like Xavier did. And he was the only other friendly face she knew.. so she was drawn to him in a way... but not once chose his side. in the midst of her crazyness she felt safe with eric.