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[borinquenknight]

On the contrary my friend, there actually is a way that she could do it and it's been adressed in an alternate X3 fan-novel. It's not a solution any of us would have considered, but after reading it it sounded very appropriate to the character and what I could see Jean doing.
Her dilemna was that she realized that 1) using her powers was becoming too easy and convenient, and that 2) she was more powerful than any human or mortal should allowed to be. She felt the right thing to do was to let evolution run its course and move onto the next step, to that next place. But at the same time she wanted to be with her friends and family and made a promise to Scott she could not bring herself to break. So instead she found a solution that was very different and yet made everyone happy.

Is this in the Phoenix Endsong? Rats! I need to finish it.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

im still not getting if she could shut off her power and control it that much.. then why would she need to? plus seems really boring unless they went astral plane with it.. or white hot room. I mean you'd just see her on the camera with her eyes closed concentrating and then going " ok i've fixed myself"

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Is this in the Phoenix Endsong? Rats! I need to finish it.

no its not.. though what i said before hand was about her not being ready to come back and that pieces of her are scattered throughout the universe was.

 

[ntcrawler]

im still not getting if she could shut off her power and control it that much.. then why would she need to? plus seems really boring unless they went astral plane with it.. or white hot room. I mean you'd just see her on the camera with her eyes closed concentrating and then going " ok i've fixed myself"

You sort-of have the right idea. She let go of her physical body and went back to her non-corporeal energy form. Her powers were a result not from a cosmic energy force, but a direct result of her mutation. And her mutation was controlled by genetics. Genes. Her Genes. She was aware of the changes that were taking place as a result of Magneto's machine on Ellis Island. So she knew what her genes looked like before and after she was hit by that machine. So what she did was build a new body for herself, but at the same time, she changed the genetic code of this body, reverting back to the way she was before the mutation manifested itself. She kept the part of her DNA that let her be telepathic, but greatly reduced the part of her DNA which gave her those god-like TK powers. Then with the powers of the Phoenix at her disposal, she pressed the Enter key one more time, and POOF was once again reborn into a physical being, back to her old self, no longer having access to those powers. Telepathically she ended up being on-parr with Xavier, but as far as TK was concerned she was back to hovering small objects like books and test tubes.

Scott at first thought she was going to die or move on, but she assured him not to worry and begged him to trust her one more time. The bird-like energy being disappeared over the lake, and in its place he found a very worn out, yet familiar looking naked woman floating over to the shore. She asked him to trust her, that this was the best solution for everyone. And he wasn't disappointed. The Phoenix has no equal, no peer, no mother or father, and is doomed to live a lonely existence. But the Phoenix can be defeated by love. In choosing love, she accepted mortality, and by accepting mortality, she found her own redemption, to be with those whom she loved.

The novel BTW is called "Grail". I highly recommend it. It shows the true power and compassion that is Jean Grey.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

You sort-of have the right idea. She let go of her physical body and went back to her non-corporeal energy form. Her powers were a result not from a cosmic energy force, but a direct result of her mutation. And her mutation was controlled by genetics. Genes. Her Genes. She was aware of the changes that were taking place as a result of Magneto's machine on Ellis Island. So she knew what her genes looked like before and after she was hit by that machine. So what she did was build a new body for herself, but at the same time, she changed the genetic code of this body, reverting back to the way she was before the mutation manifested itself. She kept the part of her DNA that let her be telepathic, but greatly reduced the part of her DNA which gave her those god-like TK powers. Then with the powers of the Phoenix at her disposal, she pressed the Enter key one more time, and POOF was once again reborn into a physical being, back to her old self, no longer having access to those powers. Telepathically she ended up being on-parr with Xavier, but as far as TK was concerned she was back to hovering small objects like books and test tubes.

Scott at first thought she was going to die or move on, but she assured him not to worry and begged him to trust her one more time. The bird-like energy being disappeared over the lake, and in its place he found a very worn out, yet familiar looking naked woman floating over to the shore. She asked him to trust her, that this was the best solution for everyone. And he wasn't disappointed. The Phoenix has no equal, no peer, no mother or father, and is doomed to live a lonely existence. But the Phoenix can be defeated by love. In choosing love, she accepted mortality, and by accepting mortality, she found her own redemption, to be with those whom she loved.

The novel BTW is called "Grail". I highly recommend it. It shows the true power and compassion that is Jean Grey.

meh... i like the idea that magneto's machine started to break he mental blocks rather then started making her evolve further...

 

[ntcrawler]

meh... i like the idea that magneto's machine started to break he mental blocks rather then started making her evolve further...

Don't think inside the box. Try something new.

here's the link:

http://www.themedicinewheel.net/grail/grail.html

read it. read it and honestly tell me if this author didn't put more effort and research into her story than the hacks who did the script for X3.

 

[ntcrawler]

meh... i like the idea that magneto's machine started to break he mental blocks rather then started making her evolve further...

Oh, it wasn't so much that she evolved further, but that she finished evolving into what she was supposed to be, what mother nature intended. Remember her speech at the beginning of X1 where she explains mutations. They either occur when a person reaches puberty or as a result of great emotional trauma. In Jean's case, her powers manifested early due to the fatal accident which her friend Annie had, which cause her telepathy to appear before her adolescence. Magneto's machine simply finished the process. Also remember that they THOUGHT that Magneto's machine was harmless to mutants. But they couldn't know for sure, could they? Especially if it was a case like Jean's where her mutation occurred too early. It could just have finished the process.
If you look back at X1 and X2, that's closer to what Singer intended with the Phoenix story arc. The mental blocks idea was something that the writers came up with for X3 which alot of people felt was inconsistent with the first 2 films.

 

[Loganbabe]

Wolverine just prefers to take the simpler approach, which usually involves using his claws.

Ridiculous. You obviously don´t know the character, or you simply hate him and don´t want to know more about him. Or both.
The cure would be impossibel for Jean. The "Phoenix" would never allow her to take it, even if Logan tried. Period. Plus, Jean would have to live for the rest of her life with the guilty of killing so many people, including her boyfriend and her father figure. She was, in a way, fighting with the Phoenix and commanding Logan for him to finish with her agony.
But yeah, let´s put the blame on Logan, because he´s a ******ed moron who only thinks with his claws...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Don't think inside the box. Try something new.

here's the link:

http://www.themedicinewheel.net/grail/grail.html

read it. read it and honestly tell me if this author didn't put more effort and research into her story than the hacks who did the script for X3.

i still like it breaking the barriers rather then making her evolve further... makes more sense to me, esp with jeans powers being there all the time rather then getting amped up

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Oh, it wasn't so much that she evolved further, but that she finished evolving into what she was supposed to be, what mother nature intended. Remember her speech at the beginning of X1 where she explains mutations. They either occur when a person reaches puberty or as a result of great emotional trauma. In Jean's case, her powers manifested early due to the fatal accident which her friend Annie had, which cause her telepathy to appear before her adolescence. Magneto's machine simply finished the process. Also remember that they THOUGHT that Magneto's machine was harmless to mutants. But they couldn't know for sure, could they? Especially if it was a case like Jean's where her mutation occurred too early. It could just have finished the process.
If you look back at X1 and X2, that's closer to what Singer intended with the Phoenix story arc. The mental blocks idea was something that the writers came up with for X3 which alot of people felt was inconsistent with the first 2 films.

actually the mental blocks were set up in X2.. if you pay close attention... the dam breaking scene was not only physically in your face but a metaphor as well... as the base was breaking so was the mental blocks in her head... magnetos machine cracked them in X1, and little bits of her power seeped out through X2 flooding her brain, when Strykers dam finally broke and flooded alkali lake, so did jeans mental blocks... wich is why she had a gigantic power boost in wich she was able to lock up the x-jet, hold nighcrawler back, talk through Xavier and hold back a giant wave from destroying the X-jet. Her mental damn broke, and the flood of power ensued.. wrapping her in the telekenetic cocoon. Before the X3 script even came out nearly everyone was talking about mental blocks.

the only thing i dont like that they did... is cause the phoenix persona to develop from the blocks.. I think Xavier and Magneto should have came to the Grey house subdoing jean rather then recruiting her. Jean's enraged due to witnessing her friends death in a car accident and is out of control... shes in her phoenix persona, and xavier and magento come to the rescue and he put the blocks in her head to stop her from causing harm. I Think that would have made much more sense imo

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Ridiculous. You obviously don´t know the character, or you simply hate him and don´t want to know more about him. Or both.
The cure would be impossibel for Jean. The "Phoenix" would never allow her to take it, even if Logan tried. Period. Plus, Jean would have to live for the rest of her life with the guilty of killing so many people, including her boyfriend and her father figure. She was, in a way, fighting with the Phoenix and commanding Logan for him to finish with her agony.
But yeah, let´s put the blame on Logan, because he´s a ******ed moron who only thinks with his claws...

lol i told him this earlier... and he got the message

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Don't think inside the box. Try something new.

here's the link:

http://www.themedicinewheel.net/grail/grail.html

read it. read it and honestly tell me if this author didn't put more effort and research into her story than the hacks who did the script for X3.

i do.. i was the one explaining the movie phoenix to you earlier.. haha

 

[ntcrawler]

lol i told him this earlier... and he got the message

Meh, I'm still sticking by my version. It's simpler and doesn't rely on last minute plot devices to help explain the sudden changes. You have faith in your version, I'll have faith in mine. You have your flock of believers, I'll have mine.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Meh, I'm still sticking by my version. It's simpler and doesn't rely on last minute plot devices to help explain the sudden changes. You have faith in your version, I'll have faith in mine. You have your flock of believers, I'll have mine.

its not relying on last minute plot devices.. lol ive seen the movie 4times its friggin whats going on with her lol

 

[gambitfire]

Thing is Cyclops wouldnt be a cop out if he actually didnt die... Plus The phoenix can live still.. i wouldnt mind an element in X4 where jean comes back in some kind of form Ala endsong, and its more or less green or white phoenix... and either A she creates life and brings back those she demolecularized... or if scott is really alive id like to see this happen at the end of the movie.. and she tells him how shes not ready to come back and that traces of her are scattered everywhere within the universe like endsong... i think that would work well as a nod and semi-final goodbye to jean

nope but he comes back, that isn't as bad but it's still not well told. See here's your problem, your complicating it, i mean i like your idea but no as a studying script writer...NO!! It's a comic book movie yes, but it's a movie where you have to break some rules and apply others, you just took it too an extreme. IMO.

 

[ntcrawler]

actually the mental blocks were set up in X2.. if you pay close attention... the dam breaking scene was not only physically in your face but a metaphor as well... as the base was breaking so was the mental blocks in her head... magnetos machine cracked them in X1, and little bits of her power seeped out through X2 flooding her brain, when Strykers dam finally broke and flooded alkali lake, so did jeans mental blocks... wich is why she had a gigantic power boost in wich she was able to lock up the x-jet, hold nighcrawler back, talk through Xavier and hold back a giant wave from destroying the X-jet. Her mental damn broke, and the flood of power ensued.. wrapping her in the telekenetic cocoon. Before the X3 script even came out nearly everyone was talking about mental blocks.

I think you're trying to mine this a little too deep here. If her mental blocks were coming down and they were directly responsible for holding back the Phoenix persona, then we would have seen some manifestation of this. If she resented Prof X and other people and was as bitter as we were made to believe she was, then it would have shown. She would have had flashes of anger, her eyes going red, stuff flying across the room, lashing out at the professor or the bad guys, etc. But we never saw that. She only used her powers for defense and protection, never out of anger or to strike out or hurt anyone. Mental blocks made it much too complicated than it needs to be. It also ends up making Prof X look bad and foolish especially in his attemtps to rein Jean in.
The rise in her powers can also be attributed not just to her power levels rising, but her ability at wielding them. It's what they refer to as "knowledge by experience". Jean didn't know she could do these things, it only became slowly apparent that she had more power than she thought she did. She didn't know she could hold back a tidal wave and lift up an entire plane, but she probably figured that they were all going to be dead anyways so it wouldn't hurt to try. And lo and behold to her and everyone else's amazement, it worked.
If there were mental blocks, I think it makes more sense to see them collapse at the moment of her death. It would better explain the change of personality. Jean surrendered herself to die and gave up control, at which point the Phoenix persona was released and allowed to take over. Take over a body that was much more powerful than before.

 

[gambitfire]

actually the mental blocks were set up in X2.. if you pay close attention... the dam breaking scene was not only physically in your face but a metaphor as well... as the base was breaking so was the mental blocks in her head... magnetos machine cracked them in X1, and little bits of her power seeped out through X2 flooding her brain, when Strykers dam finally broke and flooded alkali lake, so did jeans mental blocks... wich is why she had a gigantic power boost in wich she was able to lock up the x-jet, hold nighcrawler back, talk through Xavier and hold back a giant wave from destroying the X-jet. Her mental damn broke, and the flood of power ensued.. wrapping her in the telekenetic cocoon. Before the X3 script even came out nearly everyone was talking about mental blocks.

the only thing i dont like that they did... is cause the phoenix persona to develop from the blocks.. I think Xavier and Magneto should have came to the Grey house subdoing jean rather then recruiting her. Jean's enraged due to witnessing her friends death in a car accident and is out of control... shes in her phoenix persona, and xavier and magento come to the rescue and he put the blocks in her head to stop her from causing harm. I Think that would have made much more sense imo

1) Nice theory i like it.

2) The machine never touched her.

3) We don't know this and the movie said that the pheonix was born over time.

you've seen the movie four times huh? well even though i don't watch it, i have it. Actually ive gone back and skimp through so i can debate my point of views on the hype .

 

[ntcrawler]

its not relying on last minute plot devices.. lol ive seen the movie 4times its friggin whats going on with her lol

Guess i'm a helpless romantic. I refuse to believe that someone who had so much compassion and love and sacrificed herself to save others would come back as a monster who kills off the same people she just saved, and for badly put together reasons. Zombies? Yes. Vampires? Yes. But not Jean. I prefer the "Grail" version of Jean. It really gives credit to her strength of character and her heart. Here she's shown to be a tormented monster. In Grail, she's a hero. A hero with a dark side who can lash out with terrifying power when angry, but who despite no longer being mortal, is still human. In X3, she only came back to give us a dramatic death at the end. In Grail, she actually came back for a reason and had a purpose to stick around.
If you want character development, IMHO Grail wins hands down.

 

[gambitfire]

Guess i'm a helpless romantic. I refuse to believe that someone who had so much compassion and love and sacrificed herself to save others would come back as a monster who kills off the same people she just saved, and for badly put together reasons. Zombies? Yes. Vampires? Yes. But not Jean. I prefer the "Grail" version of Jean. It really gives credit to her strength of character and her heart. Here she's shown to be a tormented monster. In Grail, she's a hero. A hero with a dark side who can lash out with terrifying power when angry, but who despite no longer being mortal, is still human. In X3, she only came back to give us a dramatic death at the end. In Grail, she actually came back for a reason and had a purpose to stick around.
If you want character development, IMHO Grail wins hands down.

Bravo! you my friend are an X-Men fanatic who understands character, i must say im so proud although i disagree with something, i wouldn't want her too stay but too sacrifice herself like the original story .

 

[ntcrawler]

Bravo! you my friend are an X-Men fanatic who understands character, i must say im so proud although i disagree with something, i wouldn't want her too stay but too sacrifice herself like the original story .

I don't mind death I just want it to happen for a reason. Death should serve a purpose. Death should have a role to play in the plot, either to make a point or help move it along. If you can't find a good reason to kill off a char, you shouldn't do it. If it's just for the sake of drama or shocking the audience, then it shouldn't be done. Death is easy. It's the easy way out for a character, and it's an easy way for a writer to get rid of a character. Sometimes keeping them alive, letting them survive is a challenge. It takes guts to do that. It takes effort to show what happens next to them. But if you have a good writer, then it's worth the effort.
In Grail, Jean doesn't sacrifice herself because 1) she finds a way to limit her own powers so she's no longer godlike or dangerous to the world, and 2) she made a promise to Scott. She promised him that as long as he lived, she would never, ever leave him. It was touching to see her keep that promise.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think you're trying to mine this a little too deep here. If her mental blocks were coming down and they were directly responsible for holding back the Phoenix persona, then we would have seen some manifestation of this. If she resented Prof X and other people and was as bitter as we were made to believe she was, then it would have shown. She would have had flashes of anger, her eyes going red, stuff flying across the room, lashing out at the professor or the bad guys, etc. But we never saw that. She only used her powers for defense and protection, never out of anger or to strike out or hurt anyone. Mental blocks made it much too complicated than it needs to be. It also ends up making Prof X look bad and foolish especially in his attemtps to rein Jean in.
The rise in her powers can also be attributed not just to her power levels rising, but her ability at wielding them. It's what they refer to as "knowledge by experience". Jean didn't know she could do these things, it only became slowly apparent that she had more power than she thought she did. She didn't know she could hold back a tidal wave and lift up an entire plane, but she probably figured that they were all going to be dead anyways so it wouldn't hurt to try. And lo and behold to her and everyone else's amazement, it worked.
If there were mental blocks, I think it makes more sense to see them collapse at the moment of her death. It would better explain the change of personality. Jean surrendered herself to die and gave up control, at which point the Phoenix persona was released and allowed to take over. Take over a body that was much more powerful than before.

you miss read.. the blocks were seeds planted way before.. but the blocks i truly believe in singers eyes were to hold back the phoenix.. not create it, like X3 gave us

 

[spideyboy_1111]

1) Nice theory i like it.

2) The machine never touched her.

3) We don't know this and the movie said that the pheonix was born over time.

you've seen the movie four times huh? well even though i don't watch it, i have it. Actually ive gone back and skimp through so i can debate my point of views on the hype .

the machine didnt but the radiated waves did... lol they enveloped all over liberty island.. they were all hit by it but it "doesn't effect mutants" so instead it cracked her telekenetic damn

 

[spideyboy_1111]

1) Nice theory i like it.

2) The machine never touched her.

3) We don't know this and the movie said that the pheonix was born over time.

you've seen the movie four times huh? well even though i don't watch it, i have it. Actually ive gone back and skimp through so i can debate my point of views on the hype .

i dont believe in movie piracy, since its the industry im going in... and i know X3 states the phoenix was born over time.. but i was stating what it should have been pre X3...

 

[ntcrawler]

you miss read.. the blocks were seeds planted way before.. but the blocks i truly believe in singers eyes were to hold back the phoenix.. not create it, like X3 gave us

Then why the narration by Famke at the end of X2 about evolution taking sudden leaps and bounds? If it was just mental blocks then Jean didn't evolve at all. She just went nuts.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Guess i'm a helpless romantic. I refuse to believe that someone who had so much compassion and love and sacrificed herself to save others would come back as a monster who kills off the same people she just saved, and for badly put together reasons. Zombies? Yes. Vampires? Yes. But not Jean. I prefer the "Grail" version of Jean. It really gives credit to her strength of character and her heart. Here she's shown to be a tormented monster. In Grail, she's a hero. A hero with a dark side who can lash out with terrifying power when angry, but who despite no longer being mortal, is still human. In X3, she only came back to give us a dramatic death at the end. In Grail, she actually came back for a reason and had a purpose to stick around.
If you want character development, IMHO Grail wins hands down.

dude even in the comic she devoured a planet killing millions of life forms... she could have easily killed one of her love ones as well... your confusing Phoenix with Dark Phoenix... essentially in the movies there was no Phoenix.. because Phoenix was DARK phoenix... and Yes she is a tormented monster.. and i felt that was shown very vivid in the movie.. when jean came through she wasnted it to stop