X3 Box Office Tracker

ntcrawler said:
Then why the narration by Famke at the end of X2 about evolution taking sudden leaps and bounds? If it was just mental blocks then Jean didn't evolve at all. She just went nuts.
because she was taking the next step forward.. her evolution and power was held back. Jeans powers when she would have gotten them were leaps and bounds over normal mutants.. thus why magneto says in X3.. "when i first saw you i saw the next step in evolution"
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
i dont believe in movie piracy, since its the industry im going in... and i know X3 states the phoenix was born over time.. but i was stating what it should have been pre X3...

im not selling it :) besides How else is FOX going to learn to make good movies. Everyone in here swears they are such doo gooders.
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
dude even in the comic she devoured a planet killing millions of life forms... she could have easily killed one of her love ones as well...

I'm trying to keep separate the concepts of "could have" with "would have". Professor X COULD mentally rape anyone on the planet yet wasn't perceived as a threat. Just because someone has great power doesn't mean they HAVE to use it for evil and destructive purposes. Jean COULD have levelled entire cities when she retreated to her family house and killed everyone in her path, but didn't. The fact that her attacks were so well focused - even when she went berzerk at Alcatraz she seemed only to kill the bad guys - does show a level of control and hints at something just a little deeper. Even the book shows she was more in control of herself and aware than what you're willing to give her credit for. The only major piece missing that would have brought her back or wanted her to come back was the fact that she was convinced that Scott was dead and that it was her fault and with such blood on her hands she wouldn't be able to live with herself. If that's the case, then I say we put that missing piece back into the puzzle and solve this problem.


your confusing Phoenix with Dark Phoenix... essentially in the movies there was no Phoenix.. because Phoenix was DARK phoenix... and Yes she is a tormented monster.. and i felt that was shown very vivid in the movie.. when jean came through she wasnted it to stop

Yes, and there being no good side to her, no Phoenix, that is the problem. The mental blocks were a last-minute hack introduced when they ralized the movie was downscaled so much that there was no logical or creative way to account for her going evil. So might as well make her evil from the beginning and start killing everyone off. That oughta shock the audience good. No argument with her being a monster. My claim is that's not how it should have been portrayed in the first place. I don't want to defend or justify it, I want to expose it for the flaw that it is.

Furthermore, connecting her mental blocks breaking down to Magneto's machine is false and unnecessarily complicated. As I said before, if her mental blocks were collapsing, then not only would her power become stronger but at the same time you would have to start seeing more and more aspects of the Phoenix persona come forth since that was being held back as well. But we didn't. You didn't see any personality changes. She was still the same lovable Jean until the end. No frenzied rages, no sudden bouts of anger, no evil-eyes and forks and knives being hurtled at people, no resentment towards Xavier or anyone else that she was shown to hate later in X3.
But back to Magneto's machine. First let's be clear on what it is exactly that Magneto's machine does: it triggers mutations in people who haven't had them yet. It activates inert X-genes or modifies the DNA to make those genes active. That's that, in a nutshell. It was assumed that the machine would not affect mutants as there was nothing that needed to be triggered, but they had no way of knowing. In fact, that's exactly why it would affect Jean, because she was an exception. As she personally stated in X1, mutations are triggered either by puberty or extreme emotional trauma. In her case it was emotional trauma, when her friend Annie died. Her mutation appeared before its natural time, and for whatever reason her evolution was incomplete. Magneto's machine would have therefore triggered it again and let it run its course. Again, this machine affects genes, which are directly responsible for the way that a mutant's powers manifest themselves. Mental blocks are artificial locks placed in a person's mind. They are not related to anything that the machine was designed to do and did. No other mutant present was affected, because everyone there had mutations that already ran their full course and reached completion. All except Jean's mutation, which was triggered early and never finished.
It would make much more sense and be much simpler to simply state that it was Jean's death, her willingness to give up on life, that final moment as she panicked and cried out which dropped the mental blocks if there were any, allowing her Phoenix persona to take control, and with its bitterness and will to survive, allow Jean to overcome her ordeal. Several mental trauma can do that to a mind. It affects different people in different way. Sometimes it makes an evil person have a change of heart. Sometimes it releases repressed or multiple personalities. Sometimes it makes a person humble. Other times it destroys the entire mind and you end up with a block of wood. Using that to release the Phoenix persona I can see that. And it would actually be somewhat related to the comics, except that this second persona did not come from an intergalactic energy entity. But the comics make things unnecessarily complicated. Singer's idea was to keep things simple, manageable, and consistent. Therefore it is my believe that the above Mutation Machine trigger is the simplest and most consistent way to explain what happened to Jean, and it violates nothing established in the first two films, unlike the mental blocks / angry persona idea put together by Penn and Kinberg, which throws all that happened in the first two films, which I already discussed and explained in detail, out the window.
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
because she was taking the next step forward.. her evolution and power was held back. Jeans powers when she would have gotten them were leaps and bounds over normal mutants.. thus why magneto says in X3.. "when i first saw you i saw the next step in evolution"

Magneto? Magneto would say ANYTHING to swoon and win her over. He could promise to give her the whole planet and make her his fiery queen if that's what it would take to get her to join his cause and fight for him. Hell, he said something similar too to Pyro, didn't he? The "God among insects" routine, was it not? To this little punk-ass teen? What he should have then said to Jean was casually mention how she's just a tool to him and once she's no longer useful to him, he'd be happy to find a way to eliminate her just in case she decides to become too powerful for her own good or overthrow him. That and it would be really useful to turn her to fight against her friends and family.
It's a shame that Xavier didn't try to casually point out to Jean at her house that everything Magneto was saying was a lie, that he wanted a war for the sake of having a war so that the world could live in fear, and that he'd toss her out like an empty bottle once done with her. And if she didn't believe him, to help herself and read Magneto's mind. Ahh, what could have been. Instead Xavier decided to invade her mind and throw himself onto her, only helping Jean realize that maybe what Magneto was saying was true. Bad move Charles, really bad move...
 
ntcrawler said:
I'm trying to keep separate the concepts of "could have" with "would have". Professor X COULD mentally rape anyone on the planet yet wasn't perceived as a threat. Just because someone has great power doesn't mean they HAVE to use it for evil and destructive purposes. Jean COULD have levelled entire cities when she retreated to her family house and killed everyone in her path, but didn't. The fact that her attacks were so well focused - even when she went berzerk at Alcatraz she seemed only to kill the bad guys - does show a level of control and hints at something just a little deeper. Even the book shows she was more in control of herself and aware than what you're willing to give her credit for. The only major piece missing that would have brought her back or wanted her to come back was the fact that she was convinced that Scott was dead and that it was her fault and with such blood on her hands she wouldn't be able to live with herself. If that's the case, then I say we put that missing piece back into the puzzle and solve this problem.
Her attacks only happened when she was threatened man, your reverting back to before... jean is crazy.. a split personality.. your not grasping that.. The book is a book, means as much as the comics. The movie is the bases bud so stop looking into a book that strayed from the movie.




ntcrawler said:
Yes, and there being no good side to her, no Phoenix, that is the problem. The mental blocks were a last-minute hack introduced when they ralized the movie was downscaled so much that there was no logical or creative way to account for her going evil. So might as well make her evil from the beginning and start killing everyone off. That oughta shock the audience good. No argument with her being a monster. My claim is that's not how it should have been portrayed in the first place. I don't want to defend or justify it, I want to expose it for the flaw that it is.
NO THEY WERENT, where were you after X2? people have been talking mental blocks since its release.

ntcrawler said:
Furthermore, connecting her mental blocks breaking down to Magneto's machine is false and unnecessarily complicated. As I said before, if her mental blocks were collapsing, then not only would her power become stronger but at the same time you would have to start seeing more and more aspects of the Phoenix persona come forth since that was being held back as well. But we didn't. You didn't see any personality changes. She was still the same lovable Jean until the end. No frenzied rages, no sudden bouts of anger, no evil-eyes and forks and knives being hurtled at people, no resentment towards Xavier or anyone else that she was shown to hate later in X3.
its not false unless proven so. Singer showed jean react to the machine for a reason.. its been the blueprint set during X2.. and her power did become stronger, did u even see X2? scott even says "ever since liberty island your powers have been out of wack "(something to that extent) and jean got stronger and stonger during X2 sue to her power slowly leaking out of those cracks. Thus why she went from only being able to lift a book to shaking the whole bed at night. and she was for seeing rages.. why do you think she really killed herself? to save the X-men? NO. if she was able to start the jet that easily, she would have done it from the inside. What she did, is go out side to do it so that way she could sacrafice herself because she knew something bad was happening to her, and was afraid of her power, she for saw what was going to happen. And tried to kill her self to stop herself from hurting those she loved.... but the phoenix broke through and formed the cocoon as the water crashed down upon her

ntcrawler said:
But back to Magneto's machine. First let's be clear on what it is exactly that Magneto's machine does: it triggers mutations in people who haven't had them yet. It activates inert X-genes or modifies the DNA to make those genes active. That's that, in a nutshell. It was assumed that the machine would not affect mutants as there was nothing that needed to be triggered, but they had no way of knowing. In fact, that's exactly why it would affect Jean, because she was an exception. As she personally stated in X1, mutations are triggered either by puberty or extreme emotional trauma. In her case it was emotional trauma, when her friend Annie died. Her mutation appeared before its natural time, and for whatever reason her evolution was incomplete. Magneto's machine would have therefore triggered it again and let it run its course. Again, this machine affects genes, which are directly responsible for the way that a mutant's powers manifest themselves. Mental blocks are artificial locks placed in a person's mind. They are not related to anything that the machine was designed to do and did. No other mutant present was affected, because everyone there had mutations that already ran their full course and reached completion. All except Jean's mutation, which was triggered early and never finished.
It would make much more sense and be much simpler to simply state that it was Jean's death, her willingness to give up on life, that final moment as she panicked and cried out which dropped the mental blocks if there were any, allowing her Phoenix persona to take control, and with its bitterness and will to survive, allow Jean to overcome her ordeal. Several mental trauma can do that to a mind. It affects different people in different way. Sometimes it makes an evil person have a change of heart. Sometimes it releases repressed or multiple personalities. Sometimes it makes a person humble. Other times it destroys the entire mind and you end up with a block of wood. Using that to release the Phoenix persona I can see that. And it would actually be somewhat related to the comics, except that this second persona did not come from an intergalactic energy entity. But the comics make things unnecessarily complicated. Singer's idea was to keep things simple, manageable, and consistent. Therefore it is my believe that the above Mutation Machine trigger is the simplest and most consistent way to explain what happened to Jean, and it violates nothing established in the first two films, unlike the mental blocks / angry persona idea put together by Penn and Kinberg, which throws all that happened in the first two films, which I already discussed and explained in detail, out the window.
No, magneto's machine triggers mutations in those who DO NOT posses the mutant X gene. it has no effect on those who have it. You have even less proof then i do about your "didnt evolve enough" theory then anything ive even said, when what i have already stated has been depicted since after X2. That was singers plan in X1 and X2 and if you can't see it then your blind.
 
ntcrawler said:
Magneto? Magneto would say ANYTHING to swoon and win her over. He could promise to give her the whole planet and make her his fiery queen if that's what it would take to get her to join his cause and fight for him. Hell, he said something similar too to Pyro, didn't he? The "God among insects" routine, was it not? To this little punk-ass teen? What he should have then said to Jean was casually mention how she's just a tool to him and once she's no longer useful to him, he'd be happy to find a way to eliminate her just in case she decides to become too powerful for her own good or overthrow him. That and it would be really useful to turn her to fight against her friends and family.
It's a shame that Xavier didn't try to casually point out to Jean at her house that everything Magneto was saying was a lie, that he wanted a war for the sake of having a war so that the world could live in fear, and that he'd toss her out like an empty bottle once done with her. And if she didn't believe him, to help herself and read Magneto's mind. Ahh, what could have been. Instead Xavier decided to invade her mind and throw himself onto her, only helping Jean realize that maybe what Magneto was saying was true. Bad move Charles, really bad move...
dude, your begining to spout things that arn't even there... the movie is lead to show us the war is happening not just because magneto wants one to make others fear him but because the mutant kind is being pushed over the edge, and hes not going to take it anymore. Your logic on this last comment really makes no sense...
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
No, magneto's machine triggers mutations in those who DO NOT posses the mutant X gene. it has no effect on those who have it. You have even less proof then i do about your "didnt evolve enough" theory then anything ive even said, when what i have already stated has been depicted since after X2. That was singers plan in X1 and X2 and if you can't see it then your blind.

but you yourself just said it broke her blocks, so it does have some effect if your powers are being blocked by another mutant :D. Singer's plan was evolution not mental blocks, i dunno IMO those 2 lead in 2 very different directions.
 
gambitfire said:
but you yourself just said it broke her blocks, so it does have some effect if your powers are being blocked by another mutant :D. Singer's plan was evolution not mental blocks, i dunno IMO those 2 lead in 2 very different directions.
the blocks are put in mentally not genetically

he's the one who had the idea about the blocks before hand my friend... or he wouldnt have put clues to them in... am i the only one who was around here before X3 who remembers all the talk about the blocks?:confused: i feel like im in the twighlight zone
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
Her attacks only happened when she was threatened man, your reverting back to before... jean is crazy.. a split personality.. your not grasping that.. The book is a book, means as much as the comics. The movie is the bases bud so stop looking into a book that strayed from the movie.

The book is the next thing that comes in canonical order after the movie. What's not explicitly covered in the movie, is supposed to be covered in the book. That's one of the reasons why novelizations are written: to fill in the gaps.

NO THEY WERENT, where were you after X2? people have been talking mental blocks since its release.

The fans? Or those who actually wrote it and set things up for X3? You and I both know that we fans can debate things to death but none of us control the ultimate product or creative process.

its not false unless proven so. Singer showed jean react to the machine for a reason.. its been the blueprint set during X2.. and her power did become stronger, did u even see X2? scott even says "ever since liberty island your powers have been out of wack "(something to that extent) and jean got stronger and stonger during X2 sue to her power slowly leaking out of those cracks. Thus why she went from only being able to lift a book to shaking the whole bed at night.
Exactly. All attributed to her powers getting stronger. Absolutely no evidence for mental blocks or need to introduce them. It was a sloppy last-minute decision by writers who lack imagination or coherence in their reasoning. You keep adding layers to something that doesn't need them. I give you the simpler solution. You're defending a concept that's flawed and doesn't hold water. I'm simply exposing it for what it is and pointing out its flaws. It's flaws like this why the movie loses in credibility.

why do you think she really killed herself? to save the X-men? NO. if she was able to start the jet that easily, she would have done it from the inside. What she did, is go out side to do it so that way she could sacrafice herself because she knew something bad was happening to her, and was afraid of her power, she for saw what was going to happen. And tried to kill her self to stop herself from hurting those she loved.... but the phoenix broke through and formed the cocoon as the water crashed down upon her

Grasping at straws. No evidence or proof for what you say. Jean was not suicidal because she was afraid of herself or considered herself to be too dangerous. There was absolutely no proof that she was afraid of herself or what she would become. She was afraid that something terrible would happen (ie, her death). Not that she was going to turn into a monster. If anything, the Jean that was meant to return was supposed to be a fragile yet good Jean, to be possibly corrupted and turned dark later. And this is a known fact of how Singer was intending to proceed with his story.
The ultimate reason why she killed herself is one that would obviously not occur to you. She did it because of guilt. Gulit that she felt for betraying Scott. I'll be happy to explain myself and elaborate. Not because she found herself to be too dangerous. In fact as I said before she only used her powers for defense and protection. What version of X2 did you see? Or did you even watch that part?

No, magneto's machine triggers mutations in those who DO NOT posses the mutant X gene. it has no effect on those who have it.

That is your personal assumption. It's not supported in the movie. NO ONE knew for certain what the machine would do to mutants. You are correct in that it triggers mutations in those who don't have the mutant X gene. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume it would complete mutations that were stopped short. A machine like that does not pull out mental blocks. Totally different concepts. Completely unrelated to what the machine is supposed to do, which is to manipulate genes. Not brainwaves, not psychic energy, but genes. You're pulling a rabbit out of a hat. I'm deducing things logically. And that was the point. Jean was different from other mutants. Because her mutation was not finished. It was interrupted and triggered early by a traumatic event. That is also a known fact.

You have even less proof than i do about your "didnt evolve enough" theory then anything ive even said, when what i have already stated has been depicted since after X2.
No, the "didn't evolve enough" proof is a canonical fact about Jean's background. It's an essential part of her story as much as Scott's uncontrollable optic blasts are to him.
In fact, you're totally missing the concept of evolution here. Evolution is the slow change and adaptation of a species which occurs over thousands of generations. Sometimes it takes a leap with new offspring, but evolution does NOT happen to a member of the same generation during their lifetime. Mutations in this context are like puberty in normal humans. They are something that appear and manifest themselves during a certain period in life, but they are always a part of you. Jean's mutations has and always was a part of her. She did not evolve into anything, no more than I evolved when my facial hair started to go.

That was singers plan in X1 and X2 and if you can't see it then your blind.

Unless you interviewed the man yourself you're not in that position to make that conclusion, nor are you in any position to evaluate the health of my eyes. For the record, there has been an extensive discussion here and on other forums at just what Singer's vision was, and what I have presented to you is what came out of those discussions as to what was the most likely and correct vision was supposed to be. And it did not involve mental blocks, or Cerebro. X3 deviated from what was established in the first 2 films, and this is why things look and feel so out of whack. Consistency was not one of their strong point. The only thing they kept was the rise of the Phoenix.
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
the blocks are put in mentally not genetically

he's the one who had the idea about the blocks before hand my friend... or he wouldnt have put clues to them in... am i the only one who was around here before X3 who remembers all the talk about the blocks?:confused: i feel like im in the twighlight zone

yes they may be mental not genetic but none the less she is a mutant and it affected her, also i dunno what the hell and genetic altering maching has to do with breaking mental blocks. oh well :).

I remember some subtle stuff about the mental blocks but i remember more talk about evolution, all this talk about blocks never happened around me, everyone i know was presuming it would be a new evolution of power for Jean, not something she already had within her.
 
What does any of this have to do with the box office?
 
gambitfire said:
yes they may be mental not genetic but none the less she is a mutant and it affected her, also i dunno what the hell and genetic altering maching has to do with breaking mental blocks. oh well :).

I remember some subtle stuff about the mental blocks but i remember more talk about evolution, all this talk about blocks never happened around me, everyone i know was presuming it would be a new evolution of power for Jean, not something she already had within her.
you'd have to ask singer... some people belive it might have been cerebro that did it as well...

really ive been on these boards for ever and never heard talk that gene was evolving... and something she already had just was blocked
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
you'd have to ask singer... some people belive it might have been cerebro that did it as well...

really ive been on these boards for ever and never heard talk that gene was evolving... and something she already had just was blocked

So it's settled..........No one knows it's all theory :D

edit- Cerebro i remember discussing as well.
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
dude, your begining to spout things that arn't even there... the movie is lead to show us the war is happening not just because magneto wants one to make others fear him but because the mutant kind is being pushed over the edge, and hes not going to take it anymore. Your logic on this last comment really makes no sense...

I am saying that Magneto has charisma but is a lier and manipulator deep inside. He would say anything to swoon people to join his cause, and not hesitate to get rid of them once they used up their usefulness or felt they were a danger to his power and status. Therefore him complimenting Jean as being that next step in evolution when he saw her could be nothing more than sweettalk to try and charm her to betray her friends. He wasn't doing this for her own good or welfare. He was seizing the opportunity, like he did with Pyro. He tossed Mystique out when she was no longer useful to him and wouldn't hesitate to do the same with Jean. I was pointing out my disappointment that no one bothered to tell Jean that Magneto is a lying bastard and charming her just to turn her against her friends and loved ones.
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
you'd have to ask singer... some people belive it might have been cerebro that did it as well...

really ive been on these boards for ever and never heard talk that gene was evolving... and something she already had just was blocked

Does anyone know of any interviews with Singer in which he talks about Jean's evolution into Phoenix??
 
ntcrawler said:
I am saying that Magneto has charisma but is a lier and manipulator deep inside. He would say anything to swoon people to join his cause, and not hesitate to get rid of them once they used up their usefulness or felt they were a danger to his power and status. Therefore him complimenting Jean as being that next step in evolution when he saw her could be nothing more than sweettalk to try and charm her to betray her friends. He wasn't doing this for her own good or welfare. He was seizing the opportunity, like he did with Pyro. He tossed Mystique out when she was no longer useful to him and wouldn't hesitate to do the same with Jean. I was pointing out my disappointment that no one bothered to tell Jean that Magneto is a lying bastard and charming her just to turn her against her friends and loved ones.
but magneto's possition has nothing to do with phoenix aside for what he thinkgs hes using her for....magneto may complement... but he wouldnt lie to her face.. he knew it was jean as soon as callisto spoke of the level 5 mutant... he had no idea if she'd be bad or good, but he wanted her.. and thats for the fact he saw something in her from the begining... wich would be "the next step in evolution"
 
littlephoenix said:
Does anyone know of any interviews with Singer in which he talks about Jean's evolution into Phoenix??
not that i know off hand.. though i believe theres talk on the dvd's
 
ntcrawler said:
Then why the narration by Famke at the end of X2 about evolution taking sudden leaps and bounds? If it was just mental blocks then Jean didn't evolve at all. She just went nuts.

The way they went with the plot it might've very well been a can of evolved Planters Nuts!
 
ntcrawler said:
I'm trying to keep separate the concepts of "could have" with "would have". Professor X COULD mentally rape anyone on the planet yet wasn't perceived as a threat. Just because someone has great power doesn't mean they HAVE to use it for evil and destructive purposes. Jean COULD have levelled entire cities when she retreated to her family house and killed everyone in her path, but didn't. The fact that her attacks were so well focused - even when she went berzerk at Alcatraz she seemed only to kill the bad guys - does show a level of control and hints at something just a little deeper. Even the book shows she was more in control of herself and aware than what you're willing to give her credit for. The only major piece missing that would have brought her back or wanted her to come back was the fact that she was convinced that Scott was dead and that it was her fault and with such blood on her hands she wouldn't be able to live with herself. If that's the case, then I say we put that missing piece back into the puzzle and solve this problem.




Yes, and there being no good side to her, no Phoenix, that is the problem. The mental blocks were a last-minute hack introduced when they ralized the movie was downscaled so much that there was no logical or creative way to account for her going evil. So might as well make her evil from the beginning and start killing everyone off. That oughta shock the audience good. No argument with her being a monster. My claim is that's not how it should have been portrayed in the first place. I don't want to defend or justify it, I want to expose it for the flaw that it is.

Furthermore, connecting her mental blocks breaking down to Magneto's machine is false and unnecessarily complicated. As I said before, if her mental blocks were collapsing, then not only would her power become stronger but at the same time you would have to start seeing more and more aspects of the Phoenix persona come forth since that was being held back as well. But we didn't. You didn't see any personality changes. She was still the same lovable Jean until the end. No frenzied rages, no sudden bouts of anger, no evil-eyes and forks and knives being hurtled at people, no resentment towards Xavier or anyone else that she was shown to hate later in X3.
But back to Magneto's machine. First let's be clear on what it is exactly that Magneto's machine does: it triggers mutations in people who haven't had them yet. It activates inert X-genes or modifies the DNA to make those genes active. That's that, in a nutshell. It was assumed that the machine would not affect mutants as there was nothing that needed to be triggered, but they had no way of knowing. In fact, that's exactly why it would affect Jean, because she was an exception. As she personally stated in X1, mutations are triggered either by puberty or extreme emotional trauma. In her case it was emotional trauma, when her friend Annie died. Her mutation appeared before its natural time, and for whatever reason her evolution was incomplete. Magneto's machine would have therefore triggered it again and let it run its course. Again, this machine affects genes, which are directly responsible for the way that a mutant's powers manifest themselves. Mental blocks are artificial locks placed in a person's mind. They are not related to anything that the machine was designed to do and did. No other mutant present was affected, because everyone there had mutations that already ran their full course and reached completion. All except Jean's mutation, which was triggered early and never finished.
It would make much more sense and be much simpler to simply state that it was Jean's death, her willingness to give up on life, that final moment as she panicked and cried out which dropped the mental blocks if there were any, allowing her Phoenix persona to take control, and with its bitterness and will to survive, allow Jean to overcome her ordeal. Several mental trauma can do that to a mind. It affects different people in different way. Sometimes it makes an evil person have a change of heart. Sometimes it releases repressed or multiple personalities. Sometimes it makes a person humble. Other times it destroys the entire mind and you end up with a block of wood. Using that to release the Phoenix persona I can see that. And it would actually be somewhat related to the comics, except that this second persona did not come from an intergalactic energy entity. But the comics make things unnecessarily complicated. Singer's idea was to keep things simple, manageable, and consistent. Therefore it is my believe that the above Mutation Machine trigger is the simplest and most consistent way to explain what happened to Jean, and it violates nothing established in the first two films, unlike the mental blocks / angry persona idea put together by Penn and Kinberg, which throws all that happened in the first two films, which I already discussed and explained in detail, out the window.

It's simple really. Jean's massive powers were restrained as a child, her mind blocked from expressing her mutation. Use of Cerebro amplified her abilities and began to break through the blocks that contained her true mutant power. Magneto's machine triggered artificial mutation and then began to affect her mutant gene, beginning to evolve her back to what she would have been if Charles hadn't interfered. It was a gradual process of her power expanding to reach the level it would have had if the blocks weren't there.

She struggled with it - she could stop one missile but not the other, and when she pushed back Cyclops' blast in the dam she and Cyclops were flung back from the unexpected burst of power to such an extent that she broke her ankle. What happened with Cyclops in X3 was a further expansion of this - her power had increased (so she could hold his power back effortlessly) so she struggled even more with control (therefore Cyclops died instead of being flung across the room).

At the end of X2, she held back the water, but she couldn't do it for long, it was too great a strain for the conscious Jean Grey personality, so she (the Jean part) let go and allowed herself to die --- it was then that her subconscious Phoenix self kicked in to protect her from death with a cocoon in which her conscious mind was comatose while her subconscious shielded her from harm.. As shown with the firebird at the end of the movie, the subconscious Phoenix was now totally free with no barriers to stop it from overwhelming the good side of Jean whenever it could, trying to assert control.
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
its about 50/50 here in cali... but in ohio next to half the people i knew didnt wanna see it
Thats disappointing to hear.

X-Maniac said:
I expected it to be much better than X3, I expected a blockbuster. It didn't feel that way at all. Flawed on so many levels. Lois is heartbroken over Superman's disappearance, then manages to meet someone else and become pregnant so quickly that the paternity of the child is in question.... Superman is rendered powerless by an island laced with kryptonite (enabling Lex and his goons to beat him up and stab him with kryptonite), then he manages to lift the island into space with its kryptonite right next to him and with a small shard of kryptonite still embedded in his flesh...

Too long, too slow, over-indulgent. Big plotholes. Very disappointed. I was expecting this to dazzle me.
Well a lot of people were dazzled by the movie.Sorry you felt that way about it though.
 
Update (53 days)

Friday 14 Jul $146,998
Saturday 15 Jul $220,252
Sunday 16 Jul $160,539
Monday 17 Jul $75,917 (-52.7% on day/ -33% on week)

Domestic $232,405,899
International $206,076,495
Worldwide $438,482,394

Updated on front page
 
Update (53 days)

Friday 14 Jul $146,998
Saturday 15 Jul $220,252
Sunday 16 Jul $160,539
Monday 17 Jul $75,917 (-52.7% on day/ -33% on week)

Domestic $232,405,899
International $206,076,495
Worldwide $438,482,394

Updated on front page
 
OH THANK GOD! I was begining to forget about the BO after reading these posts. Hey Ice/Psy, did you see Pirates, what did you think?
 

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