You gotta love California. Not really though

[NOFX]

The driving age in California is the only thing that is good.

LOL! I thought it was 16 for every state

 

[hippie_hunter]

There's a new bill coming up I believe that will tax oil company Proposition 87 presents a simple choice to voters: do we keep doing things the oil company way or do we move forward with cleaner air and cheaper energy.

Despite being greedy bastards you really can't blame the oil companies for the way things are. We ourselves should carry most of the blame for buying crap like SUVs and such. Laws can't force oil and car companies to move towards cleaner and cheaper energy. The economic laws of demand will do that by itself with little to no negative impact.

This is nothing but a pathetic attempt to raise revenue and punish business for no reason. Crap like this is going to turn California into New York state. No business is going to want to go to you guys. Just like they don't want to go to New York state.

 

[NOFX]

Despite being greedy bastards you really can't blame the oil companies for the way things are. We ourselves should carry most of the blame for buying crap like SUVs and such. Laws can't force oil and car companies to move towards cleaner and cheaper energy. The economic laws of demand will do that by itself with little to no negative impact.

This is nothing but a pathetic attempt to raise revenue and punish business for no reason. Crap like this is going to turn California into New York state. No business is going to want to go to you guys. Just like they don't want to go to New York state.

Oil company will have no choice but to do more business with California considering Californias are the biggest Car consumers in the country I believe. Its time to blackmail the Oil Company's for a change! I think its a good bill. Im voting yes.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Oil company will have no choice but to do more business with California considering Californias are the biggest Car consumers in the country I believe. Its time to blackmail the Oil Company's for a change! I think its a good bill. Im voting yes.

Car companies will just move their business elsewhere. Oil companies will just sell more oil to other places (like China and India). I'm telling you with the stuff that your state is doing with business, you'll end up like New York is.

 

[War Lord]

hmmn. could you back that up?

i know people have been put away for minor stuff on their third strike- but only if they had serious offences already on their record.

I have no problem with the intent of the three strikes law, but it has been used too arbitrarily over some guy stealing a kid's pizza or caught smoking where he shouldn't have.

 

[NOFX]

Car companies will just move their business elsewhere. Oil companies will just sell more oil to other places (like China and India). I'm telling you with the stuff that your state is doing with business, you'll end up like New York is.

I think the Oil Company will lose more business if they move! Too much revenue for the Oil Company to give up here in California. Its not like this is the first time a company has been taxed. Tabacco company has been taxed numerous times in California and it didnt stop doing business with California either.

 

[maxwell's demon]

I have no problem with the intent of the three strikes law, but it has been used too arbitrarily over some guy stealing a kid's pizza or caught smoking where he shouldn't have.

I agree On the surface those things seem pretty Overboard, a comedy starring Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russel..

 

[War Lord]

How about tax cuts for people who drive hybrid vehicles to offset the higher cost of said vehicles?

It's already built into the car by virtue of the fact that they use less gas, they end up paying less taxes.

 

[maxwell's demon]

Because higher emission cars are still cheeper than lower emission cars. Hence why people go with such cars at times. There are people who just can't afford them. In the end, your idea would not only screw over the car companies which are already in bad shape, but also screw over the consumer.

Don't worry though, thanks to higher gas prices (nothing compared to Europe and Japan), the demand is shifting towards lower emission vehicles. Hopefully this will speed the process along in creating new technologies that make such vehicles not only cheaper, but more efficient, reliable, and hell, maybe even cleaner!

and what you have to understand is that it isnt just about the revenue on the surface- it's about power. control of the resources and the ability to use force; violence- filtered through most often through government deals-- to keep control over those local populations.

We probably won't see electric cars until they've made some kind of "DRM fuel tank".

 

[7Hells]

It's already built into the car by virtue of the fact that they use less gas, they end up paying less taxes.

And you get an actual tax right off for owning the vehicle.

 

[War Lord]

I think the Oil Company will lose more business if they move! Too much revenue for the Oil Company to give up here in California. Its not like this is the first time a company has been taxed. Tabacco company has been taxed numerous times in California and it didnt stop doing business with California either.

Revenue is revenue, regardless of the source. A billion dollars from China or India is just as valuable as a billion dollars from California.

 

[War Lord]

and what you have to understand is that it isnt just about the revenue on the surface- it's about power. control of the resources and the ability to use force; violence- filtered through most often through government deals-- to keep control over those local populations.

We probably won't see electric cars until they've made some kind of "DRM fuel tank".

All it really means is that electric companies become the new oil companies. In fact they would even be more so, because their revenue comes straight from your house instead of through thousands of small companies spread across the country.

 

[NOFX]

Revenue is revenue, regardless of the source. A billion dollars from China or India is just as valuable as a billion dollars from California.

I Seriously doubt the oil company's will close down all there gas stations and move to China and India! They would lose Millions more on moving than they would on being taxed! Besides if the evil Tabacco company didnt movie I seriously doubt its little brother will move too. On a side note doesnt China have its own Oil? I read it somewhere...

 

[maxwell's demon]

All it really means is that electric companies become the new oil companies. In fact they would even be more so, because their revenue comes straight from your house instead of through thousands of small companies spread across the country.

but electricity can be created from solar panels or other independent means. Not so easy with petroleum. What oil/car companies want is a source where they continually control the pipeline. that's always been the focus of their attention.

 

[War Lord]

And you get an actual tax right off for owning the vehicle.

I know that and it certainly helps.

 

[War Lord]

I Seriously doubt the oil company's will close down all there gas stations and move to China and India! They would lose Millions more on moving than they would on being taxed! Besides if the evil Tabacco company didnt movie I seriously doubt its little brother will move too. On a side note doesnt China have its own Oil? I read it somewhere...

That depends on the economics. The oil companies aren't going to martyr themselves and go out of business to ensure that any particular area gets served adequately.

One reason why there aren't gas stations on every corner as there once was is because the economics don't allow for it anymore. If the economics aren't there, oil companies would continue to gradually shut down gas stations and move them farther apart. You could find yourself having to travel twice as far as you already do to get your gas.

The difference between the oil companies and tobacco companies is that oil is very much a wanted product everywhere and is more easily moved about as the product is wanted.

 

[War Lord]

but electricity can be created from solar panels or other independent means. Not so easy with petroleum. What oil/car companies want is a source where they continually control the pipeline. that's always been the focus of their attention.

Electricity can be created from solar panels and all that. However, are you really going to spend 100 grand or more for the sole purpose of providing yourself some electricity?

The main disadvantage of electricity are two-fold.

1. Electrical cars aren't all that efficient in cold weather climates. What might last you a week in California would only last a day or less in Alberta, Canada in December or January.

2. Electrical cars probably aren't the ultimate future, but hydrogen and you're going to need a place to fuel for this, so it's unlikely the oil companies are going away anytime soon.

 

[maxwell's demon]

well yes, that was kind of my point.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Electricity can be created from solar panels and all that. However, are you really going to spend 100 grand or more for the sole purpose of providing yourself some electricity?

The main disadvantage of electricity are two-fold.

1. Electrical cars aren't all that efficient in cold weather climates. What might last you a week in California would only last a day or less in Alberta, Canada in December or January.

2. Electrical cars probably aren't the ultimate future, but hydrogen and you're going to need a place to fuel for this, so it's unlikely the oil companies are going away anytime soon.

we already had this conversation jonty.
lats time you said 70,000 and you where wrong.
now it's a 100,000 or more?

don't make stuff up Jonty.

 

[War Lord]

we already had this conversation jonty.
lats time you said 70,000 and you where wrong.
now it's a 100,000 or more?

don't make stuff up Jonty.

I don't make up stuff, you just provide incomplete information to make your points.

http://www.solarbuzz.com/SolarIndices.htm

According to this site, it costs about 17 grand for 2 kilowatts of power a day. The average homeowner uses about 14 thousand kilowatts to power everything. In other words, it's still over 100 grand to fully power the average American home. It would cost even more if you were to power up an electric car.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I don't make up stuff, you just provide incomplete information to make your points.

http://www.solarbuzz.com/SolarIndices.htm

According to this site, it costs about 17 grand for 2 kilowatts of power a day. The average homeowner uses about 14 thousand kilowatts to power everything. In other words, it's still over 100 grand to fully power the average American home. It would cost even more if you were to power up an electric car.

Thanks for playing.

this has already been discussed.
you're incorrect, and you're debating someone, who unlike you has outfitted many homes with solar energy equipment, I have already linked to the site that say's that it's about 15 thousand dollars to 20 thousand dollars per home for a large home.
the fact that you're debating me on this, even though you've already been proven wrong makes you all kinds of sad.

 

[War Lord]

this has already been discussed.
you're incorrect, and you're debating someone, who unlike you has outfitted many homes with solar energy equipment, I have already linked to the site that say's that it's about 15 thousand dollars to 20 thousand dollars per home for a large home.
the fact that you're debating me on this, even though you've already been proven wrong makes you all kinds of sad.

That's right, 15 to 20 thousand for 2 kilowatts, which isn't near what it takes to power an average home.

I keep finding actual figures from legit websites, including manufacturer websites that back me up and all you keep coming back with is, "I outfit these homes, you dumbass."

However, you never get around to providing actual figures as to how many kilowatts your company supposedly provides for that 15 to 20 grand.

I think I'll stick with actual manufacturer websites or pro-solar websites that provide pretty much the same figures I've been giving.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

That's right, 15 to 20 thousand for 2 kilowatts, which isn't near what it takes to power an average home.

I keep finding actual figures from legit websites, including manufacturer websites that back me up and all you keep coming back with is, "I outfit these homes, you dumbass."

However, you never get around to providing actual figures as to how many kilowatts your company supposedly provides for that 15 to 20 grand.

I think I'll stick with actual manufacturer websites or pro-solar websites that provide pretty much the same figures I've been giving.

As vice president and cofounder of Clarum Homes, Mr. Suppes faces many of the same issues Massachusetts builders do - steep real estate prices and intense competition. So he can't just pass the cost of solar on to customers. The installment costs about $20,000 for each of his new "zero energy" homes, which cut utility bills up to 90 percent. "Our goal is to bring green to entry-level home buyers," he says.
So Suppes has decided that putting people in solar homes is something he wants to do - even if a chunk of the cost comes out of his profits. He also thinks his homes will gain a competitive edge as utility rates rise.
"It's true we don't recoup the full $20,000 cost of solar and other energy-saving features," he says. "We're looking at it more from an ethical and environmental standpoint and because, in the long run, we feel this is the way home-building is headed."


:heart:

 

[War Lord]

As vice president and cofounder of Clarum Homes, Mr. Suppes faces many of the same issues Massachusetts builders do - steep real estate prices and intense competition. So he can't just pass the cost of solar on to customers. The installment costs about $20,000 for each of his new "zero energy" homes, which cut utility bills up to 90 percent. "Our goal is to bring green to entry-level home buyers," he says.
So Suppes has decided that putting people in solar homes is something he wants to do - even if a chunk of the cost comes out of his profits. He also thinks his homes will gain a competitive edge as utility rates rise.
"It's true we don't recoup the full $20,000 cost of solar and other energy-saving features," he says. "We're looking at it more from an ethical and environmental standpoint and because, in the long run, we feel this is the way home-building is headed."


:heart:

Up to 90%, but it still doesn't say how many wattage that represents.

I can easily cut up to 90% of my bill as well without solar power.

I can turn off the tv, eat cold food, take cold showers, learn to function in the dark, and other energy saving methods. But that doesn't mean that I've found new ways to generate power, just cut back.

As you notice, the guy even admits that one cannot seriously expect to recoup the costs of the installment.

So, how much wattage can your company provide for $20 grand?

 

[Fred_Fury]

I bet the person that filed the lawsuit DRIVES A ****ING CAR god, ****ing hypocrites (typical for liberals)