Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 8

[Micromind]

Snyder, Affleck, Terrio.

 

[Greenlite]

If Batman had smiled like that during the Martha moment, the RT would have gotten over 60% for a fresh tomato

=P

 

[Micromind]

All right, just to change topics real quick, reading Marc Mclure's comments have me a little confused. He's saying that he was the cop in the park when they fought Superman and then he says they changed that but Geoff Johns later was able to get him in the movie as the prison guard when Barry goes to see his dad. So, was that scene a Whedon shot scene? Because it definitely doesn't look/feel like one.

Yup, the scene where Mark McClure is a prison guard is shot by Whedon. The later part where Barry meets his father in the prison is the original Snyder shot scene. Whedon has added some of his scenes in between Snyder shot scenes throughout the movie.

 

[flickchick85]

Snyder, Affleck, Terrio.

Batfleck looks like a live-action LEGO Batman there, I love it.

 

[Consona]

https://***********/ImperiousLex/status/1024624656563625984

 

[Kevin_28]

Has anyone talked about Zack saying that his DC movies were not meant to have spinoffs, that it was supposed to be its own self contained world?

https://***********/Ser_Jon_Arryn/status/1023981851793403913

 

[kguillou]

I think that much has been obvious for a long time and the heart of why we're in the situation we're in now. Zack was making a finite elseworlds story but the studio wanted a DC MCU. The two idelogies clashed and alas we are where we are.

 

[MbJ]

I've said from the beginning that he was not a good choice to start a shared universe and that reception to his films might have been less harsh had they been their own thing off to the side like the Phoenix Joker flick. They basically ended up with a situation where the entire franchise got off on the wrong foot.

 

[kguillou]

Exactly, agreed. If Batman v Superman was marketed as a loose adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns..guess starring Henry Cavill's Superman instead of the launch point to an ongoing serialized DC universe people would have been much kinder and the people who hated the movie would have just shrugged it off because it would have been a harmless one off tale.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

If his plan all along was to do his own self contained 5 movie arc, they should have made that clear from the start so people wouldn’t be confused about getting a DC Universe.

He could’ve done his own thing or whatever under the elseworlds while WB could give the fans what they wanted, a connected universe.

I would not have had a problem with that as long as we were also getting a lighter and more traditional take on the characters in a different movie continuity.

 

[kguillou]

I think most people who didn't like Snyder's take would agree with you. Part of the passionate vitriol against him is he launched the DCEU with a polarizing, risky movie in which Superman died at the end. If it was a one off "event movie" that told its own story, or maybe a two parter or something then people could digest it better as just that, a "one off."

 

[Kevin_28]

That might be the reason they were able to bring in Affleck. His intention was never to be in a shared universe and be in that sort of commitment.

 

[Da-Scribe]

So Zack was planning to do what pretty much every other filmmaker currently involved in DCEU is doing. Making films with a standalone arc that can still fit within a larger universe.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yeah, for all the stuff he wanted to do in his 5 movie arc, I would rather not have any spinoffs delving from that. In a hypothetical world, he gets to make his 5 movies, and all the spinoff stuff is left to an actual interconnected DC Universe that takes the traditional approach.

Snyder’s 5 movie arc with evil superman, gun touting Batman, an injustice-like movie toward the end, dead dick Grayson followed by Carrie Kelley Robin... all that stuff seems better left off in a closed off elseworlds saga. A place where he can feel comfortable using his ideas, no matter how “out there” they are. I would have been fine with that. Not my cup of tea, but there would have been something for both groups, the people who like his take on the characters and people who want something more in line with the actual characters and their respective histories.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Ultimately it’s WBs fault. They marketed this thing like it was their answer to the MCU and behind the scenes, it was anything but.

I’m sure Snyder made them aware of his plans. They went along with it thinking it could work for a while too. They should have known better. This was not Christopher Nolan they were dealing with.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I don't think there was any reason to separate the universes. They can easily co-exist and pre-BvS interviews seemed to indicate we'd be going from the "elseworlds" take to a more "traditional" take with BvS being the darkest we'd see for these characters.

And I don't think separation is what Snyder was going for anyways. Not that it matters, we're not going to see Snyder's stuff again. So the people who never liked it can rest easy.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

He should write a book about all of this one day

 

[2kt09]

He should write a book about all of this one day

Snyder biopic written by Scott Snyder, illustrated by Zack Snyder

 

[kguillou]

This whole thing also shows how in the age of the internet we the fans are now privy to all of this behind the scenes drama which, lets face it, happens ALL the time in Hollywood, we just never used to hear about it. I'm sure Tim Burton followed a similar trajectory to Snyder when he was working with WB on Batman.

 

[idiot09]

Yeah, for all the stuff he wanted to do in his 5 movie arc, I would rather not have any spinoffs delving from that. In a hypothetical world, he gets to make his 5 movies, and all the spinoff stuff is left to an actual interconnected DC Universe that takes the traditional approach.

Snyder’s 5 movie arc with evil superman, gun touting Batman, an injustice-like movie toward the end, dead dick Grayson followed by Carrie Kelley Robin... all that stuff seems better left off in a closed off elseworlds saga. A place where he can feel comfortable using his ideas, no matter how “out there” they are. I would have been fine with that. Not my cup of tea, but there would have been something for both groups, the people who like his take on the characters and people who want something more in line with the actual characters and their respective histories.

Agree with most of this. The original DCEU plan was very wrongly marketed, and shouldnt have been marketed as something like the MCU, that set up false expectations.

However Snyder's 5 movie arc wasnt about evil Superman. His arc was about Superman becoming something close to TAS Superman, which Jay Oliva confirmed. We already saw something close to it in JL1. Same with Batman. It wasnt going to be an Injustice type scenario.

 

[Polux]

I always felt that Zack's story was about "the New Age of Heroes" and how a world like ours is changed forever with the rise of these individuals, spearheaded by Superman; with the now stronger confirmation of Snyder's being planned as a finite universe (which we've known for a while anyways), many things make more and more sense, like the killing of Olsen and Grayson (there not being a place for them in the story), the older Batman (which Affleck being aware of the plan and arch and knowing exactly how many years he'd be attached to it) and the creative decisions made in the course of these movies, all of which were to plant seeds to serve a story that...well, at the end wasn't told completely.

It is what it is now! Honest, I love Zack and his work probably more than most around here, I honestly consider him to be a genius and an inspiration as an artist, and I will keep on hoping to the Snyder cut to be released one day; but his vision, the story he wanted to tell was tarnished from the moment WB got cold feet and messed with BvS's TC, from a pragmatic point of view, what was going to be will never be in any way, so there's no point crying and brooding over that, nothing more left than to move on and look to the future.

This also explains to me and kinda makes me feel more open to Ben not coming back, since maybe he knew exactly which arch his version of the character was gonna take - and with Zack's hinting that Batman and WW were maybe going to sacrifice themselves at the end of his story - the continuous "blowing up the balloon" that WB wants to go with is not what he signed up for, so as much perfection as he is in the role, I can understand why he wouldn't want to come back (still hoping he does tho).

It also just hit me, I always thought that the female redhead soldier, the one displayed a little more than other and helped by Batman during the Knightmare scenario, was Barbara Gordon, but now I'm pretty sure that's Carry Kelly (at least she is in my head canon )

 

[Sorath]

I think that much has been obvious for a long time and the heart of why we're in the situation we're in now. Zack was making a finite elseworlds story but the studio wanted a DC MCU. The two idelogies clashed and alas we are where we are.

It's more complicated then that. I mean it's part of it. When they made of Man of Steel their was no plan to build a DCMU. Same reason Dark Knight ended the way it did. At the time their was no plan on building a DCMU.

Then Avengers came out and suddenly WB took notice and realize they where sitting on a gold mine. If you actually look back right after Avengers was released WB came out and said they where going to make a DCMU but wanted to see how Man of Steel did.

Sadly Man of Steel didn't sit well with audiences. It made more then enough money to justify making a sequel. However the public reaction wasn't what they where hoping for. Thus they loss faith in their product. They also had the problem of Batman. Studios realized that they screwed up by giving the Dark Knight Rise an ending that effectively prevented them from using that Batman. This means they had to find a way of bringing Batman back to big screen with out doing yet another origin story.

Their solution was Batman vs Superman. Which wouldn't have been a terrible idea had been done right. However they made it to Dark. They made Superman all emo. The story line was all over the place and didn't know what story line it wanted to be. I won't get started on Doomsday. It was like they took everything every comic book nerd would ever want to see in comic book movie and threw it in to this one film and it sucked horrible. Not Superman Returns horrible but it was bad.

What they should have done is did Man of Steel 2 and smoothed out some of the rough edges from Man of Steel. They should have focused on making Films like Flash, Wonder-Woman, Aquaman. Then do a Trinity movie that brings Batman back to big screen and brings him, Superman and Wonder-Woman together and sets the stage for Justice League.

The bottom line is they need to take their time. They need to have faith in their product or not bother doing it. When Disney sets out to make a Marvel films they put their faith in that film. Either it will work out or it won't. They learn that just cause film doesn't do spectacular doesn't make it a failure. They look at what went wrong and how they can improve the next film. They learn from their mistakes and carry on. WB needs to do the same thing.

The problem is they dug them selves in to a hole and they are fighting to get out of it. The next few films will be sink or swim for them. However no matter what they do they will never be able to top Marvel.

Avengers Infinity War was a comic book movie master piece. It breaks my heart knowing we will never see that level of movie making and story telling for a Darkseid film. It will always come up short and miss the mark I'm sad to say.

 

[_Superman_]

It's more complicated then that. I mean it's part of it. When they made of Man of Steel their was no plan to build a DCMU. Same reason Dark Knight ended the way it did. At the time their was no plan on building a DCMU.

Then Avengers came out and suddenly WB took notice and realize they where sitting on a gold mine. If you actually look back right after Avengers was released WB came out and said they where going to make a DCMU but wanted to see how Man of Steel did.

Sadly Man of Steel didn't sit well with audiences. It made more then enough money to justify making a sequel. However the public reaction wasn't what they where hoping for. Thus they loss faith in their product. They also had the problem of Batman. Studios realized that they screwed up by giving the Dark Knight Rise an ending that effectively prevented them from using that Batman. This means they had to find a way of bringing Batman back to big screen with out doing yet another origin story.

Their solution was Batman vs Superman. Which wouldn't have been a terrible idea had been done right. However they made it to Dark. They made Superman all emo. The story line was all over the place and didn't know what story line it wanted to be. I won't get started on Doomsday. It was like they took everything every comic book nerd would ever want to see in comic book movie and threw it in to this one film and it sucked horrible. Not Superman Returns horrible but it was bad.

What they should have done is did Man of Steel 2 and smoothed out some of the rough edges from Man of Steel. They should have focused on making Films like Flash, Wonder-Woman, Aquaman. Then do a Trinity movie that brings Batman back to big screen and brings him, Superman and Wonder-Woman together and sets the stage for Justice League.

The bottom line is they need to take their time. They need to have faith in their product or not bother doing it. When Disney sets out to make a Marvel films they put their faith in that film. Either it will work out or it won't. They learn that just cause film doesn't do spectacular doesn't make it a failure. They look at what went wrong and how they can improve the next film. They learn from their mistakes and carry on. WB needs to do the same thing.

The problem is they dug them selves in to a hole and they are fighting to get out of it. The next few films will be sink or swim for them. However no matter what they do they will never be able to top Marvel.

Avengers Infinity War was a comic book movie master piece. It breaks my heart knowing we will never see that level of movie making and story telling for a Darkseid film. It will always come up short and miss the mark I'm sad to say.

This is what I agree with and what I think Snyder's Justice League was doing. Especially when they brought Johns in to help with the script. I think Snyder and Johns took a look at what worked for them in MOS, SvB and WW and what didn't work and was writing and fixing Justice League accordingly. However I think that the WB just got cold feet and the rest is history.

 

[random_havoc]

This is what I agree with and what I think Snyder's Justice League was doing. Especially when they brought Johns in to help with the script. I think Snyder and Johns took a look at what worked for them in MOS, SvB and WW and what didn't work and was writing and fixing Justice League accordingly. However I think that the WB just got cold feet and the rest is history.

Or, they watched what JL Snyder put together and thought it was crap, plus looked at how BvS drastically underperformed and was not liked by critics or fans, and they thought holy crap we shouldn't have let him make this is there any way we can fix it? Then brought in one of the most successful superhero film directors of all time to try and do so.

The real mistake WB execs made was letting him anywhere near JL in the first place after what he'd done with BvS. As soon as it was announced that he was directing it I was like "holy crap how stupid are they?"

 

[Reel-Man]

Or, they watched what JL Snyder put together and thought it was crap, plus looked at how BvS drastically underperformed and was not liked by critics or fans, and they thought holy crap we shouldn't have let him make this is there any way we can fix it? Then brought in one of the most successful superhero film directors of all time to try and do so.

The real mistake WB execs made was letting him anywhere near JL in the first place after what he'd done with BvS. As soon as it was announced that he was directing it I was like "holy crap how stupid are they?"