Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 8

[Vaibow]

I haven't come across any leak/scoop that posits Superman as showing up earlier and even more confused on how it is Superman stays bad longer given apparently he's still fighting Steppenwolf without the weird mouth in certain shots. What's definitely edited out the wazoo is how he comes back & how everyone reacts to that.

What i meant, was there more to the fight? were we due to see more of him on screen in that 'mode' at the farm, conflicted with what lois tells him? I kinda had hoped he would fly off to recollect his thoughts and he be disorientated - trying to work out who he was and who people were around him as his memory slowly came back.

He went from wanting to kill Bruce, forgetting they teamed up against DD, headbutting a woman (amazonian or not) to scooping up Lois then back on the farm - normal.

Wouldn't it have lined up more, what with the ending of BvS we see the dirt rise, suggesting he is awake or waking up so that the start of JL he bursts out of the ground, stubbly, dirty, confused and flies off to mountains where he recollects himself.

So when pet sematary happens, it's an empty coffin. Get's Cyborg scanning cctv and then we see a cat and mouse which is less villian, more fugitive jsut wanting a fresh start.

anyways...

 

[kguillou]

I will admit, from everything we’ve been able to piece together it seems like Superman was a lot more violent during his rage period (attacking cops etc.) And, dare I say it, Whedon may have been wise to tone that down because lawd that would’ve royally pissed people off seeing a fully out of control Superman.

But.....I still wanna see it

 

[Vaibow]

Thing is, i wouldn't have minded seeing it, i just wanted MOS2 first... Plus a solo batman movie pre BvS era so then the shift in character is more obvious, allowing JL to revert to that tone.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Someone on another site made an amazing suggestion

Zack should absolutely direct his own version of a Bibleman movie. It would unironically be the greatest thing ever.

 

[_Superman_]

I will admit, from everything we’ve been able to piece together it seems like Superman was a lot more violent during his rage period (attacking cops etc.) And, dare I say it, Whedon may have been wise to tone that down because lawd that would’ve royally pissed people off seeing a fully out of control Superman.

But.....I still wanna see it

Actually he wasn't attacking the cops. He was attacking the League. He may have used a cop car to attack them but he was never attacking the police.

 

[2kt09]

Actually he wasn't attacking the cops. He was attacking the League. He may have used a cop car to attack them but he was never attacking the police.

I think one rumor was that he fired lasers in the direction of civilians and Lois had to calm him down. Might be pure headcanon to call back to when his mom had to get him out of the closet.

 

[kguillou]

Sigh, I gotta be honest, even though I’m over the Snyder Cut....I’m not over it, if that makes any sense. Im not anticipating it and know we’re not getting it but we were teased so much throughout last year that I just wanna KNOW what was in it, one way or the other. I will take anything, a graphic novel, a leaked script, leaked storyboards...anything.

I still think the absolute best idea for all parties is an animated movie, directed by Jay Oliva. I’d happily take that. If Wb doesnt wanna put more money into releasing it, thats fine I get it, but I think there are other ways to make money off of it.

 

[Herolee10]

Sigh, I gotta be honest, even though I’m over the Snyder Cut....I’m not over it, if that makes any sense. Im not anticipating it and know we’re not getting it but we were teased so much throughout last year that I just wanna KNOW what was in it, one way or the other. I will take anything, a graphic novel, a leaked script, leaked storyboards...anything.

I still think the absolute best idea for all parties is an animated movie, directed by Jay Oliva. I’d happily take that. If Wb doesnt wanna put more money into releasing it, thats fine I get it, but I think there are other ways to make money off of it.

I honestly think that one of the biggest reasons on why some people just can't seem to move on from this entirely is because we know that Snyder had completed shooting his version of the film and wasn't that far off from completing it.

Now if it had been a case like Donner's cut of Superman 2 where Snyder was not able to finish filming his cut of the film then the interest would have died down a lit quicker.

But we are burdened with knowing that somewhere in Warner Bros vaults and Snyder's editing room lies all of the footage needed to complete it.

 

[heatvision38]

I'm fuzzy on what "too much" means in context, and how this is a problem. Can you be a little more detailed?

Like, I get that he's a bit lighter, and makes a few more jokes. He probably SHOULD have been inconsistent from BVS though, as the behavior in BVS was something Bruce was trying to redeem himself for in JUSTICE LEAGUE, and was implied to be something outside the norm in the first place.

I think "this is hardly the same guy" is sort of half the point. Batman had effectively devolved into a villain in BVS. In JL they were portraying a Batman who wasn't driven only by trauma and paranoia, but by a desire to protect humanity and honor the legacy of a hero. A Batman who had recaptured his heroic motivations and whose mindset had evolved.

The 180 is very much intentional, though he'd already started back down the path of righteousness at the end of BVS by stepping back from the brink, pledging to save Martha and fighting Doomsday alongside Superman, and there's not really a graceful way to gradually show someone becoming less murdery without distracting from the main narrative.

But the core elements of Batman are still very much intact; altruistic principles, detective work, physical and acrobatic excellence, use of gadgetry and militarized weapons in The Batmobile and Nightcrawler and troop carrier, use of the bat persona and intimidation against criminals, etc. Bruce Wayne still seems to be essentially a mask for Batman which follows on from BVS, and he's not exactly living a balanced life. Bruce is still intense at times and obsessed with his crusade, he's just intense out of inner drive and a more constructive passion (protecting the world from invasion, bringing back Superman) instead of misguided rage. What was so out of character in JL, either compared to BVS or the comics themselves, that isn't also directly tied to the story differences in terms of where the character himself is?

I'd argue he was actually portrayed as a more rounded person, as he engaged with other heroes, formed partnerships, and even mentored a younger hero. I suppose that's different, but in a bad way?

His sense of humor at times was more Joss Whedon humor, so it didn't fit with how he had already been portrayed. "Something is broken." "I don't...not." His goofy smile when Superman shows up. Whereas "I bought the bank" to me is something the Bafleck from BvS would say. It was his type of sense of humor (dry, but also true).

Oh, here's another one: the first Batman scene. He just lets the criminal get away. That scene was so weird to me. The burglar just hops into screen at the end of the scene, makes some comments about Superman, then Batman just leaves. I know Batman is preoccupied, but c'mon. That moment (after the parademon exploded), part of that was played for laughs rather than awe (uh, an alien invasion is coming, folks). There's more, but I would have to watch the movie again, which I don't feel like doing right now. Maybe if it comes on Netflix or the DC streaming channel, I'll give it another go. I would have been able to give you more examples back when.

Moments I did like:
* Some of his scenes with Diana- calling her out in the bunker to get her to react. Some say that he was being a jerk there, but that's something Bruce would do.
* The scene about getting too old, I can see Bruce being vulnerable like that in front of Diana
* The kamikaze attempt in the climax (continuing his redemption arc, though I think Zack had planned to push that bit futher)
* The final scene with Clark at the farm

Like I said, I can't give too many other specifics off the top of my head. That doesn't mean I don't have them, but it's been a few months since I've watched the movie, and more examples may pop up into my head later on.

 

[heatvision38]

I think one rumor was that he fired lasers in the direction of civilians and Lois had to calm him down. Might be pure headcanon to call back to when his mom had to get him out of the closet.

I love that scene. Always chokes me up. Would have been such a great callback scene.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

His sense of humor at times was more Joss Whedon humor, so it didn't fit with how he had already been portrayed. "Something is broken." "I don't...not." His goofy smile when Superman shows up. Whereas "I bought the bank" to me is something the Bafleck from BvS would say. It was his type of sense of humor (dry, but also true).

Oh, here's another one: the first Batman scene. He just lets the criminal get away. That scene was so weird to me. The burglar just hops into screen at the end of the scene, makes some comments about Superman, then Batman just leaves. I know Batman is preoccupied, but c'mon. That moment (after the parademon exploded), part of that was played for laughs rather than awe (uh, an alien invasion is coming, folks). There's more, but I would have to watch the movie again, which I don't feel like doing right now. Maybe if it comes on Netflix or the DC streaming channel, I'll give it another go. I would have been able to give you more examples back when.

Moments I did like:
* Some of his scenes with Diana- calling her out in the bunker to get her to react. Some say that he was being a jerk there, but that's something Bruce would do.
* The scene about getting too old, I can see Bruce being vulnerable like that in front of Diana
* The kamikaze attempt in the climax (continuing his redemption arc, though I think Zack had planned to push that bit futher)
* The final scene with Clark at the farm

Like I said, I can't give too many other specifics off the top of my head. That doesn't mean I don't have them, but it's been a few months since I've watched the movie, and more examples may pop up into my head later on.

Apparently, this scene was intended to be even more comedic than what we ultimately ended up with.

Holt McCallany: "I love Joss Whedon. My scene with Batman was originally conceived as a comedic scene. That’s how Joss wrote it, and that’s how we shot it. I thought it came out great, but the studio felt it would be a mistake to open the film with a completely comedic scene, so it was re-edited a little bit. I was disappointed, but when I got home to New York I found a bottle of my favorite Champagne and a note from Joss that said 'To Battles Lost. Gratefully, Joss.' I can’t tell you how much it meant to me that he took the time to write to me. Joss Whedon is a class act. I had the letter framed."

Source: Justice League’s Opening Scene Was Originally More Comedic

 

[Consona]

Sigh, I gotta be honest, even though I’m over the Snyder Cut....I’m not over it, if that makes any sense. Im not anticipating it and know we’re not getting it but we were teased so much throughout last year that I just wanna KNOW what was in it, one way or the other. I will take anything, a graphic novel, a leaked script, leaked storyboards...anything.

I still think the absolute best idea for all parties is an animated movie, directed by Jay Oliva. I’d happily take that. If Wb doesnt wanna put more money into releasing it, thats fine I get it, but I think there are other ways to make money off of it.

I want a fricking huge budget live action film, not some animated movie or a graphic novel. This is Zack Snyder were are talking about. A visual wizard... of moving things, FFS!

Just...


WTF man, holy s**t, I'm f***ing crying like a b**ch right now. This is one of the best film sequences ever, period, truly masterpiece level of work. And this f***ing stupid "culture" makes WB cancel Snyder's films, so we can get crap like Whedon's Justice League or Aquaman and MCU is 10 years in. Lol, it's all so absurd and demented. F**k this big time, I don't have nerves for this. And post-Snyder DCEU is such a downgrade, it's not even funny.

Ugh, I'm so mad right now...

Re: Batman

He went from one of, if not the best, thing to happen in BvS to the absolute worst in Justice League.

That's all I have nice to say about that.

"something is definitely bleeding"

Go f**k yourself WB! All it takes is Snyder leaving mid-project and everything turns into a s**tstorm, unbelievable.

 

[BatLand]

I want a fricking huge budget live action film, not some animated movie or a graphic novel. This is Zack Snyder were are talking about. A visual wizard... of moving things, FFS!

Just...


WTF man, holy s**t, I'm f***ing crying like a b**ch right now. This is one of the best film sequences ever, period, truly masterpiece level of work. And this f***ing stupid "culture" makes WB cancel Snyder's films, so we can get crap like Whedon's Justice League or Aquaman and MCU is 10 years in. Lol, it's all so absurd and demented. F**k this big time, I don't have nerves for this. And post-Snyder DCEU is such a downgrade, it's not even funny.

Ugh, I'm so mad right now...





"something is definitely bleeding"

Go f**k yourself WB! All it takes is Snyder leaving mid-project and everything turns into a s**tstorm, unbelievable.

Lol. As much as I like Zack's films, the DCEU is so far from a ****storm right now that I can't help but chuckle at this.

I mean, an AQUAMAN FILM is on track to make 1 BILLION. AQUAMAN. Making more than the first live action film with Batman and Superman.

And that's a really good thing that Aquaman is making a ton of money, 'cause that means we'll have more DC movies in the future.

 

[Micromind]

This opening of Man of Steel is epic, no other cbm opening can match this. As soon as I hear the Zimmer's music and see those graphics, I become nostalgic/emotional.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Re: Batman

He went from one of, if not the best, thing to happen in BvS to the absolute worst in Justice League.

That's all I have nice to say about that.

Truth. It was beyond painful. The Batman of BvS was a nightmarish force that descended on evildoers like their final curtain call.

The Batman of Justice League was what happens when you hand the keys to Joss Whedon.

 

[Vaibow]

Truth. It was beyond painful. The Batman of BvS was a nightmarish force that descended on evildoers like their final curtain call.

The Batman of Justice League was what happens when you hand the keys to Joss Whedon.

I picture it more like JL is when your gym teacher cosplays batman for halloween...

 

[Da-Scribe]

He just seemed so completely out of his prime and goofy to me. I think he should've still had that rage from BvS, but I wanted to see it pointed inward. I wanted to see Superman and Batman have a truly genuine catharsis that would then allow Batman to point his rage at the actual threat on humanity. I try not to be one of those "not muh" people, but it really was rough to see a Batman whose anger had seemingly evaporated completely.

 

[Vaibow]

I want a fricking huge budget live action film, not some animated movie or a graphic novel. This is Zack Snyder were are talking about. A visual wizard... of moving things, FFS!

Just...


WTF man, holy s**t, I'm f***ing crying like a b**ch right now. This is one of the best film sequences ever, period, truly masterpiece level of work. And this f***ing stupid "culture" makes WB cancel Snyder's films, so we can get crap like Whedon's Justice League or Aquaman and MCU is 10 years in. Lol, it's all so absurd and demented. F**k this big time, I don't have nerves for this. And post-Snyder DCEU is such a downgrade, it's not even funny.

Ugh, I'm so mad right now...





"something is definitely bleeding"

Go f**k yourself WB! All it takes is Snyder leaving mid-project and everything turns into a s**tstorm, unbelievable.

I hadn't watched that scene for a few years now.... one thing that always got me, the coughing, it seemed to clear, like a studio recording dubbed over... needed a bit of atmospheric background noise like wind muffling it, however.. moving on.

That scene, of him standing up as it pushes him down, his face.... the grit.... and don't anyone deny they spliced Reeve's face over Cavill's, or CGI'd the pressure on his cheeks so that he resembled him.... that moment put hairs on my neck and tears in my eyes, still does..... perfection.

 

[Patchwork Man]

He just seemed so completely out of his prime and goofy to me. I think he should've still had that rage from BvS, but I wanted to see it pointed inward. I wanted to see Superman and Batman have a truly genuine catharsis that would then allow Batman to point his rage at the actual threat on humanity. I try not to be one of those "not muh" people, but it really was rough to see a Batman whose anger had seemingly evaporated completely.

Believe it, the GA noticed. Even the girl who works at the place where I ship a lot of stuff remarked "Batman seemed...tired." She doesn't read comics. Never has. She's mainly a Wonder Woman fan who watches these movies.

 

[Vaibow]

He just seemed so completely out of his prime and goofy to me. I think he should've still had that rage from BvS, but I wanted to see it pointed inward. I wanted to see Superman and Batman have a truly genuine catharsis that would then allow Batman to point his rage at the actual threat on humanity. I try not to be one of those "not muh" people, but it really was rough to see a Batman whose anger had seemingly evaporated completely.

Yup... even after Martha incident, Bruce still should have felt conflicted whilst helping him - like divorced parents meeting in the hospital after their daughter was hurt in an accident - they still hate each other but focusing on the greater good.

But when Clark shot out the birthing chamber, and standing there, he should have been anxious thinking 'ok, let's really see if he is good' i think Aquaman was the most concerned an yeah, Bruce and Clark needed that chat.

 

[The Guard]

His sense of humor at times was more Joss Whedon humor, so it didn't fit with how he had already been portrayed. "Something is broken." "I don't...not." His goofy smile when Superman shows up. Whereas "I bought the bank" to me is something the Bafleck from BvS would say. It was his type of sense of humor (dry, but also true).

There's not a large enough sample of humor from Batman himself in BVS to really make that call. I could see Whedon writing the son's friend line and "I thought she was with you".

"Something is definitely bleeding" is also the type of humor Batman has been known to use, in terms of making light of his injuries.

Ben Affleck delivered the lines much the same as he did in the latter portion of BVS, with the same Batman voice and a similar cadence. I don't see a huge tonal difference in humor between a joke about wearing a cape and a lighthearted joke about internal injuries.

Regardless of whether you like "I don't...not" and the "goofy smile" or not, the lion's share of the film simply does not contain these types of moments for Batman. They are not indicative of the way his character is generally portrayed in the movie.

I don't see how a smile itself represents an actual character change especially when it is the culmination of a redemption arc, and I'm sick to death of people whining about how goofy a small moment like this came across. Yeah, it was a little goofy. So what? The point is that Batman is relieved. It's a moment of vulnerability in an otherwise largely stoic character. It's unfortunate that it's being lambasted because he ostensibly doesn't look cool and badass enough in a moment where he's not supposed to.

Oh, here's another one: the first Batman scene. He just lets the criminal get away. That scene was so weird to me. The burglar just hops into screen at the end of the scene, makes some comments about Superman, then Batman just leaves. I know Batman is preoccupied, but c'mon.

He's not there for the criminal, which should be clear once he is apprehended. He was going to use him as bait for the parademon. That was his plan. The entire point of him letting the guy go is that he has more immediate concerns that make burglary pale in comparison, in this case, global security. When the criminal says "Where does that leave us", the implication is that Batman and the criminal, in some sense, are on the same side.

That moment (after the parademon exploded), part of that was played for laughs rather than awe (uh, an alien invasion is coming, folks).

Eh. Watch it again. There's not really anything about the invasion that's played for laughs. There's a tiny, tiny moment in a relatively somber sequence where the criminal sort of hops into frame because he was bola'd and his feet are tied. Batman and Alfred are serious, as is the score there, and the criminal is also pretty immediately concerned.

 

[The Guard]

He just seemed so completely out of his prime and goofy to me. I think he should've still had that rage from BvS, but I wanted to see it pointed inward. I wanted to see Superman and Batman have a truly genuine catharsis that would then allow Batman to point his rage at the actual threat on humanity. I try not to be one of those "not muh" people, but it really was rough to see a Batman whose anger had seemingly evaporated completely.

He's operating on something other than rage, which is the point of his evolution from BVS.

If you mean physically out of his prime, the film itself doesn't bear that out. He seems to be every bit as strong, athletic and agile as he was in BVS.

What he's not is as brutal as he was in BVS, nor should he have been.

I don't understand why people want Batman to be about nothing but anger and hurting people. That's not the only reason Batman does what he does. That's certainly not what Superman inspired him to be.

Believe it, the GA noticed. Even the girl who works at the place where I ship a lot of stuff remarked "Batman seemed...tired." She doesn't read comics. Never has. She's mainly a Wonder Woman fan who watches these movies.

He was supposed to be tired. He was tired and traumatized by his crusade in BVS, and there's a whole scene about it with Wonder Woman.

 

[Da-Scribe]

He's operating on something other than rage, which is the point of his evolution from BVS.

If you mean physically out of his prime, the film itself doesn't bear that out. He seems to be every bit as strong, athletic and agile as he was in BVS.

What he's not is as brutal as he was in BVS, nor should he have been.

I don't understand why people want Batman to be about nothing but anger and hurting people.



He was supposed to be tired. There's a whole scene about it with Wonder Woman.

I knew this was coming. I'm just saying the weak choreography and direction, coupled with Bruce talking about being worn down made this Bats seem less efficient and out of his prime. I found that to be at odds with his characterization in BvS where the character was first for the first time in live action, presented as a true force of nature. And the idea of him being less brutal against mindless aliens threatening the whole of humanity is a silly choice to me. All in all, an unnecessary step backwards.

And I never said he should only be about anger and hurting people, but I do think his anger and ability to inflict pain are important components to his character that shouldn't be abandoned completely, but honed and targeted appropriately. His paranoia as well.

If it were me, Bruce would still have kryptonite on reserve. Supes' initial reaction to being resurrected would've shown him that. And Supes would've agreed with that assessment, even while the other Leaguers might not. This to me is what makes their camaraderie truly unique. They are two necessary sides of the same coin. That would've been an incredible moment of catharsis to witness on screen. But no, we got "I don't not like you." instead.

 

[The Shape]

As I think I’ve said before, I can’t believe how The Guard is so ready and willing to defend virtually every aspect of the Justice League film.

 

[The Guard]

As I think I’ve said before, I can’t believe how The Guard is so ready and willing to defend virtually every aspect of the Justice League film.

I can't believe you have nothing better to do than dog another poster, add nothing intelligent to the conversation, and engage in hyperbole.

I am not defending everything about Justice League. I am addressing a specific element of the film.