Zack Snyder: "I'm a comic book guy".

[Visualiza]

Seems to me, many people on here have never considered how hard it is to reshoot a film at the last minute. It ain't easy. Calling someone's work a hack job when you haven't tried it yourself is not fair.

Well played. And therein lies the paradox of his defenders. Flippant criticism of any other filmmaker is just business as usual. When it comes to Snyder, however, things are a little more sensitive and complicated than that.

 

[Matt]

That's a producer's job and executive producer's job, a director is there to oversee the film's principal photography, work cohesively with the actors, work to a schedule, whilst yes, money is a key element, the producing team are charged with sourcing, creating and distributing finance across the process. If they've f-uped the budgetry control or over sourced finances on the film going into the picture, that's on them.

No, a director's job, on a film of this nature, is to make the movie the studio asks him to make. If you believe for a second that the studio did not ask him to make movies with mass appeal, you are delusional.

 

[baerrtt]

He's never made 'mass appeal' films and has never tried too. His DCEU films are fan aimed films. I appreciate that if a universe as wide as the DC films would hope to reach, that's not a GA attracting decision in it's broadest grasp but that is WB's domain not Snyder's.

Nobody sets out to make 'fan aimed films' with the ridiculous budgets these big movies get nowadays and if they do when they know the movie(s) in question are meant to be aimed for the widest audience possible they shouldn't actively be seeking employment in that arena.

 

[Mandon Knight]

No, a director's job, on a film of this nature, is to make the movie the studio asks him to make. If you believe for a second that the studio did not ask him to make movies with mass appeal, you are delusional.

Well, if that is the case, they should have kept a closer eye on him during production then. Cos, if what you say happened, then they were basically as observant as those people overseeing Tony Stark when asked to make the hardware they wanted in IM1.

 

[metaphysician]

Let me rephrase: If Zack Snyder wants to continue to make a lot of money as a mainstream director, he needs more than a small, niche fanbase. If he were making movies with mass appeal, they wouldn't keep bombing or underperforming.

To use the restaurant analogy of Tacit Ronin, by your logic, a restaurant that is about to go under, but has a really small but devoted customer base (which is not enough to financially sustain it), ought not make any changes because some people like it.

To turn back to lawyer analogies, my job typically has one client. Snyder's has many. Ergo, his job is to appeal to as many as possible. Just as when I am representing a class of clients. My job is to maximize benefits for the greatest amount.

Or alternatively, he can stick to his house style and niche fanbase. . . as long as he's willing to operate on a *much* smaller budget. Think "Vaughn/Millar adaptation" budget level.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

He's never made 'mass appeal' films and has never tried too. His DCEU films are fan aimed films. I appreciate that if a universe as wide as the DC films would hope to reach, that's not a GA attracting decision in it's broadest grasp but that is WB's domain not Snyder's.

If he's making niche films about Batman, Superman and the Justice League, with obscenely high budgets that are meant to be tent poles, then he is being incredible selfish and irresponsible and WB was stupid not to fire him immediately.

 

[Matt]

Or alternatively, he can stick to his house style and niche fanbase. . . as long as he's willing to operate on a *much* smaller budget. Think "Vaughn/Millar adaptation" budget level.

Sure. To turn back to the restaurant analogy, an option that is neither closing down nor changing style would be simply to move to a much smaller venue, have a smaller staff, and reduce expenses however possible.

But honestly, I'm not sure that Snyder has that in him. Just because Vaughn does it, doesn't mean Snyder can. Its a talent to be able to use practical effects to create a movie that looks fantastic on a limit budget. It takes discipline. Snyder is such an effects ****e and seems to have a style built entirely around these huge, elaborate set pieces. I'm just not sure Snyder can do what Vaughn does. Just as I do not think Bay could do what Vaughn does. Bay needs the big shots. The type that require a ton of money to make. I think Snyder does too.

 

[Hurm...]

Zack just likes the pictures.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Sure. To turn back to the restaurant analogy, an option that is neither closing down nor changing style would be simply to move to a much smaller venue, have a smaller staff, and reduce expenses however possible.

But honestly, I'm not sure that Snyder has that in him. Just because Vaughn does it, doesn't mean Snyder can. Its a talent to be able to use practical effects to create a movie that looks fantastic on a limit budget. It takes discipline. Snyder is such an effects ****e and seems to have a style built entirely around these huge, elaborate set pieces. I'm just not sure Snyder can do what Vaughn does. Just as I do not think Bay could do what Vaughn does. Bay needs the big shots. The type that require a ton of money to make. I think Snyder does too.

Vaughan is the master at this, the boy is a genius at making a little look a lot.

 

[Matt]

If he's making niche films about Batman, Superman and the Justice League, with obscenely high budgets that are meant to be tent poles, then he is being incredible selfish and irresponsible and WB was stupid not to fire him immediately.

Yeah, its a matter of knowing yourself.

I dabble in criminal law on occasion. Mostly just because its fun and gives you your best chance of seeing the inside of a court room in an age when trial is dying. But I would never represent a sexual predator. I am simply not comfortable with it.

However, I don't get to take a sexual predator's money, do a half-ass job representing them, designed to ensure that they spend the rest of their life in a jail cell, and then when they complain say "hey, the client should've had better oversight." I'd be disbarred.

My point is, there are consequences, in any profession, to going outside of your element and messing up. Snyder is facing those consequences now...WB seems done with him (and they seemed to be the only studio who would touch him anyway). If you want to be successful, in any profession, you need to know yourself, your limitations, and what you can and cannot do.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Someone like Nolan gets a lot of creative control because he is responsible with it. He bended some rules when making Batman, he snuck in his personal themes in Batman, sure, but he also knew they were four quadrant family blockbusters. And he never failed to make them appealing to the masses. Just look at the box office of the last two.

Nolan knows that you can't take an icon like Batman and do whatever you want with it under the guise of 'creative control'. Because it some point it stops being that and becomes pure indulgence. If Nolan was like Snyder, he would've made a three hour extra dark movie about Batman that WB would have to later cut down due to panic.

Hey, that's exactly what happens with Snyder. On principal, I think the Ultimate Cut of BVS should've been the only cut released. But I don't blame WB for meddling. They are trying to build up a cinematic universe, Snyder just made a three hour funeral dirge starring characters who vaguely resemble Batman and Superman. That is insanity.

 

[Visualiza]

Taking a knife and butchering someone's work under order is not a 'skill'.

Sounds an awful lot like Snyder, who's made a career out of butchering other people's work. Not that he fares any better with his own (Sucker Punch).

Apparently, we can call other filmmakers like Whedon butchers, but with Snyder, that's a bridge too far. 'Unfair', as you put it.

 

[Wildcard]

Exactly. He should just go the route of Paul Anderson, Bay, Emmerich, etc., accept what he is, and just make dumb popcorn movies. You know, speaking of Paul Anderson, Mortal Kombat would be another great franchise for Snyder.

I don't know about that, man...I mean, MK has the potential to be dumb popcorn fun but it also has the potential to have a good or at least competent story attached to it. If Snyder gets it, the latter isn't likely to happen & I'd much prefer that than the former.

Maybe Power Rangers would be more of Snyder's speed?

 

[jmc]

He's never made 'mass appeal' films and has never tried too. His DCEU films are fan aimed films. I appreciate that if a universe as wide as the DC films would hope to reach, that's not a GA attracting decision in it's broadest grasp but that is WB's domain not Snyder's.

Snyder couldn’t even do that right though given how divided the DC fan base became. If you can’t even tell a story that unifies the community you are targeting then you’re doing something wrong.

Synder has a lack of self awareness of the type of director he is and what his faults are. If he had no interest in changing then he should have had the integrity to leave characters like Batman and Superman to people who wanted to do them right. Any good artist will know when they aren’t a good fit for a certain project. He was oblivious to the fact he wasn’t suited for the role.

 

[Samuron]

No, a director's job, on a film of this nature, is to make the movie the studio asks him to make. If you believe for a second that the studio did not ask him to make movies with mass appeal, you are delusional.

Well, if that is the case, they should have kept a closer eye on him during production then.

He's not a five-year-old; he's supposed to be an adult professional doing a job. You're actually trying to blame the studio for not hiring a babysitter.

And what's more absurd is that people have been blaming the studio for interfering too much, and now the argument is they didn't do it enough.

It's amazing; no matter what aspect is discussed, it's always somebody else's fault.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Taking a knife and butchering someone's work under order is not a 'skill'.

it's right there on the character sheet: Profession (Butcher), one just have to put ranks in it

 

[Superchan]

Snyder is like a friend I used to know, he loved looking at comicbooks but could never bring himself to actually reading them. Snyder loves putting comicbook panels on screen but these come off as hollow and empty when aren't accompanied by context.
Another big problem with Snyder is that he's oblivious to the fact that he's a Michael Bay who thinks he's Chris Nolan, thus he has the audacity to "deconstruct" icons like Batman and Superman when the last time he tried to do something original was sucker punch!

He's never made 'mass appeal' films and has never tried too. His DCEU films are fan aimed films. I appreciate that if a universe as wide as the DC films would hope to reach, that's not a GA attracting decision in it's broadest grasp but that is WB's domain not Snyder's.

Disagree, he made 300. He also "tried" to make mass appeal films in Sucker punch, Rise of the guardians, MOS, BvS and JL and failed miserably. Besides if his intention was to make niche films then he shouldn't be given 200 and 300 million dollars to do so, but then again that's on WB not on him.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

His DCEU films are fan aimed films.

aimed at fans of what?
because if he aimed at fans of the DC characters, not only did he clearly miss the target, he also seems to lack anything to throw at that target

 

[FunkMiller]

It's amazing; no matter what aspect is discussed, it's always somebody else's fault.

Which is the thing I have a real problem with. I am a massive Chris Nolan mark, but even I concede he screwed some things up in Rises. Interstellar is, quite frankly, a bit balls in many ways.

There’s nothing wrong with being able to criticise the things you love. Nothing is perfect.

Is it because Snyder’s films get lambasted and underperform, so his fans feel the need to defend, no matter what? If so, would it perhaps be a good idea to reflect on why those films get lambasted, rather than simply entrench in an opinion, without budging? I certainly think Snyder would be a better film maker with a little self reflection.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Zack just likes the pictures.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Personally I am a Snyder fan and like his movies. But if WB didn’t want want him to make his version of JL, they should have fired him and be done with it. What JL ended up being was more damaging and the box office is showing that.

I hope we get to see Snyder version some day, just as I want to see his completed trilogy.

However, saying all this, I am glad his tenure in the DCFU is over, he is not a blockbuster director IMO, and going forward this is what WB need to go with.

I do think there are some comic book characters Snyder could go very good things with though.

 

[Flint Marko]

Well, if that is the case, they should have kept a closer eye on him during production then. Cos, if what you say happened, then they were basically as observant as those people overseeing Tony Stark when asked to make the hardware they wanted in IM1.

There's no 'if' about it. They were clearly attempting to make giant, four-quadrant blockbusters. Just look at how much they spent on these things. They wanted BvS and JL to score over a billion.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Personally I am a Snyder fan and like his movies. But if WB didn’t want want him to make his version of JL, they should have fired him and be done with it. What JL ended up being was more damaging and the box office is showing that.

JL was always going to disappoint based off of BvS. But WB could have done things to put forth the image that they have made changes and they really failed to do that to anybody not paying specific attention to the production process (ie. us fans). It is hard to convince the general audience that your new movie is different from the hated last film when it is directed by the same guy, starring the same people, and the initial trailers look like more of the same.

He probably should have been fired after MoS. He DEFINITELY should have been fired after BvS.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

JL was always going to disappoint based off of BvS. But WB could have done things to put forth the image that they have made changes and they really failed to do that to anybody not paying specific attention to the production process (ie. us fans). It is hard to convince the general audience that your new movie is different from the hated last film when it is directed by the same guy, starring the same people, and the initial trailers look like more of the same.

He probably should have been fired after MoS. He DEFINITELY should have been fired after BvS.

Personally I liked BvS a lot and wanted to see his take on JL, but I know plenty of others didn’t, and so should WB have at that point. So fire Snyder and delay the movie, because JL as it is is embarrassing at points.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

he is not a blockbuster director IMO,

he is not much of a movie director in general, I think, blockbuster or not. he might be a good art director or set designer or visual effects director or maybe cinematographer. some departement were he doesn't embarass himself, trying to overcome his non-existing storytelling skills.
he sort of reminds me of Joe Johnston, if Johnston had no talent