🇪🇺 Discussion: The European Union

[chaseter]

It's what happens with the all or nothing mentality. Enjoy nothing...you fought for it.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Belgians close to having an actual government instead of an interim one:

http://news.yahoo.com/belgium-edges-closer-toward-government-123619758.html

 

[hippie_hunter]

I am thoroughly convinced now that Greece is run by a bunch of ******s

http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/01/news/international/greece_debt_referendum.cnnw/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

 

[Marx]

It really is a shame to see what's happened to Greece.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Not really. Everything that has happened to Greece is Greece's own damn fault. And if they vote to reject the new deal, well....they brought this upon themselves.

 

[Raiden]

Not really. Everything that has happened to Greece is Greece's own damn fault. And if they vote to reject the new deal, well....they brought this upon themselves.

I don't understand the purpose behind the referendum. Greek citizens understand that they are 6 billion euros in debt, and this could force the country into a bankruptsy, right? Talk about biting the hands that feed them.

 

[IKB]

Greek citizens understand that it wasn't them that bankrupted their own country, so it shouldn't be them that has to pay for it.

A default has been coming for a long time now, I hope the Greek people vote "no" and they do crash out of the European Union. The sooner they're out of the single currency the better, for them and for everyone else, maybe they'll actually be able to get back on their feet in a decade or two.

 

[chaseter]

Oh my goodness Greece is full of not smart people.

As for the riots, no the working people did not do this all to the country. But, they got extremely comfortable with all the wonderful things they were getting and now that they can no longer have all of those things they would rather sink the ship than dock and get into a smaller boat. Now...they are trying to sink their life rafts at the same time.

 

[Raiden]

Greek citizens understand that it wasn't them that bankrupted their own country, so it shouldn't be them that has to pay for it.

A default has been coming for a long time now, I hope the Greek people vote "no" and they do crash out of the European Union. The sooner they're out of the single currency the better, for them and for everyone else, maybe they'll actually be able to get back on their feet in a decade or two.

Like it or not, the Greek citizens have to pay back that 6 billions in debt (which I heard EU may allow them to forfeit about 1/3 of the amount or something), and they can't hide their head in the sand and wait for it to go away. If they want out of EU, that's their choice, but they'll have to face the consequence of this action as well.

Btw, I heard that their Prime Minister has decided to cancel the referenum. I guess he came to his senses somewhat.

 

[IKB]

Like it or not, the Greek citizens have to pay back that 6 billions in debt (which I heard EU may allow them to forfeit about 1/3 of the amount or something), and they can't hide their head in the sand and wait for it to go away. If they want out of EU, that's their choice, but they'll have to face the consequence of this action as well.

Btw, I heard that their Prime Minister has decided to cancel the referenum. I guess he came to his senses somewhat.

Or they could default on their debt because the sanctions being asked of them would disproportionately punish those at the bottom of society, as they often do.

The Greek PM caved under the pressure of both the French and German governments, as well as international markets, to disallow his people a perfectly legitimate say on the matter.

The way that Merkozy, as they are now known, have behaved has made an absolute mockery of any claims that Eurozone members have to sovereignty. I personally don't think it's their place to interfere in the domestic dealings of a nation.

 

[Raiden]

Or they could default on their debt because the sanctions being asked of them would disproportionately punish those at the bottom of society, as they often do.

The Greek PM caved under the pressure of both the French and German governments, as well as international markets, to disallow his people a perfectly legitimate say on the matter.

The way that Merkozy, as they are now known, have behaved has made an absolute mockery of any claims that Eurozone members have to sovereignty. I personally don't think it's their place to interfere in the domestic dealings of a nation.

Right now any country, including the U.S., has its economy and financial well-being tied to the rest of the world, so of course Greece cannot use sovereignty to do whatever they want, especially since they are deep in debt (which they owed to EU). If they decided to get out of EU, they will default on their debt, and the result will be catastrophe.

 

[The Overlord]

Or they could default on their debt because the sanctions being asked of them would disproportionately punish those at the bottom of society, as they often do.

The Greek PM caved under the pressure of both the French and German governments, as well as international markets, to disallow his people a perfectly legitimate say on the matter.

The way that Merkozy, as they are now known, have behaved has made an absolute mockery of any claims that Eurozone members have to sovereignty. I personally don't think it's their place to interfere in the domestic dealings of a nation.

However the fact remains the Greek public benefited from these overly generous social programs that they couldn't afford, it seems like the public supported these policies that brought them to ruin. I am not feeling sorry that they are reaping what they have sown. If Greece defaults, not only will they be kicked out of the Euro zone, their economy will likely go into a meltdown. The deal the EU is offering Greece is the best option they have, if they don't take it, no one will want to loan them more money and they will still have to pay for the debt they owe.

 

[Raiden]

However the fact remains the Greek public benefited from these overly generous social programs that they couldn't afford, it seems like the public supported these policies that brought them to ruin. I am not feeling sorry that they are reaping what they have sown. If Greece defaults, not only will they be kicked out of the Euro zone, their economy will likely go into a meltdown. The deal the EU is offering Greece is the best option they have, if they don't take it, no one will want to loan them more money and they will still have to pay for the debt they owe.

Greece is like a guy who used his credit cards to buy whatever he wanted, but when it's time to pay the bills, he decided to cancel the cards instead and turn off his phones so he won't be harassed by the credit card companies who wanted him to pay up.

 

[chaseter]

If Greece defaults their economy will crash and they will be worse off than they would be in debt. Again, a bunch of non smart people.

 

[chamber-music]

Not to mention paying taxes in Greece was treated as something thats optional.

I heard some EU minister say that if Greece leaves the single currency EuroZone they will also have to leave the European Union altogether!

If Greece stays or goes the Greek people are still in for years of economic hell.

The real problem is if Italy or Spain go under as they have far bigger economies and are too big to fail. If they go under we are straight into another world recession

 

[IKB]

However the fact remains the Greek public benefited from these overly generous social programs that they couldn't afford, it seems like the public supported these policies that brought them to ruin. I am not feeling sorry that they are reaping what they have sown. If Greece defaults, not only will they be kicked out of the Euro zone, their economy will likely go into a meltdown. The deal the EU is offering Greece is the best option they have, if they don't take it, no one will want to loan them more money and they will still have to pay for the debt they owe.

Better that Greece withdraw from the Eurozone than have austerity measures forced upon them that won't work and bailout attempts that manage to only delay the inevitable.

The only way the country can stop itself from being crushed by the massive interest rates on its loans is to default. It is literally an inevitability.

If Greece defaults their economy will crash and they will be worse off than they would be in debt. Again, a bunch of non smart people.

Can't say that I agree with this.

Were Greece to withdraw from the Eurozone and default on its loan, it could actually begin to pursue a course of action that could get its economy growing again and give them the chance to repay their debts. At the moment, there has been little to no chance of that happening because of the spiraling interest rates on the countries debt.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The Greek PM better see if he can retain his American citzenship (he was born in Minnesota to a Greek Father, who was Greek PM in the 1980's and an American mother and was educated at Harvard) if things go from bad to worse.

 

[IKB]

Right now any country, including the U.S., has its economy and financial well-being tied to the rest of the world, so of course Greece cannot use sovereignty to do whatever they want, especially since they are deep in debt (which they owed to EU). If they decided to get out of EU, they will default on their debt, and the result will be catastrophe.

The Greek government should only be answerable to the will of the Greek people. On an issue as pivotal as this, it is in no way a mistake for the Greek government to seek a mandate from the people for them to continue down their current course.

It may not be the done thing, but I applaud the Greek PM for at least attempting to do seek such a mandate. If only some of his other European counter-parts would do the same.

 

[craigdbfan]

Greece collapses, calls for unity government to take control

REPORTING FROM ATHENS -- George Papandreou, Greece's beleaguered prime minister, has accepted an opposition proposal to form a temporary unity government that would secure approval of Europe's latest bailout plan, senior officials said Thursday.

The interim government would shepherd the bailout plan through parliament and then hold early elections, the officials said. Significantly, Papandreou would have to step down and not head the interim administration.

Anna Diamantopoulou, the Greek education minister, said Papandreou was prepared to accept the proposal from Antonis Samaras, head of the conservative New Democracy party, for a unity government.

 

[The Overlord]

Better that Greece withdraw from the Eurozone than have austerity measures forced upon them that won't work and bailout attempts that manage to only delay the inevitable.

The only way the country can stop itself from being crushed by the massive interest rates on its loans is to default. It is literally an inevitability.

But if Greece defaults, no one will want to invest in Greece or loan them money in the future. Its hard for their economy to recover if that happens.

 

[IKB]

But if Greece defaults, no one will want to invest in Greece or loan them money in the future. Its hard for their economy to recover if that happens.

The way I see it default is going to happen, one way or another.

It's simply a matter of how much money is going to be poured down the drain attempting to stop it from happening.

 

[Raiden]

Analysis: Leaving Euro carries massive costs for Greece

 

[hippie_hunter]

Various news sources are reporting that President Nicolas Sarkozy and Chancellor Angela Merkel are holding secret talks about kicking the weaker members like the PIIGS out of the Eurozone, while keeping the Euro intact with the stronger northern members.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Italian bonds have reached above 7% once more despite the resignation of Silvio Berlusconi and the ECB bond auction. Spain's bond levels have reached 6.3%. Both nations are considered to be far too big to bail out the way Ireland, Greece, and Portugal have.

Contagion fears are now spreading to France where bond yields have risen to 3.67%.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Read this bit of hilarity: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/284426/EU-says-water-is-not-healthy

In a scarcely believable *ruling, a panel of experts threw out a claim that regular water consumption is the best way to rehydrate the body.


The bizarre diktat from Brussels has far-reaching implications for member states, including Britain, as no water sold in the EU can now claim to protect against dehydration.


...


Any producer breaching the order, signed by European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, faces being jailed for up to two years. It took the 21 scientists on the panel three years of analysis into the link between water and dehydration to come to their extraordinary conclusion.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the European Union.