🇷🇺🇺🇦 Discussion: Relations with Russia and the war in Ukraine

[Kyle]

Except instead of a President willing to act in the best interests of our allies we have a fool who will give Putin and Russia a free pass.

Here's my concern, free pass or work with? Free pass to me is just looking the other way while Putin puts it back together, work together in that Trump will help Putin in putting it back together. And potentially entering the fold in exchange for corporate control, I could easily see Trump selling out the country to get what the kind of power that he personally wants. Conspiracy theory somewhat there, but none of them have reflected a strong sense of morals or rationality rather egocentricism.

 

[Fading]

Russia still acts like it's the 60's. I question Putin's resolve. In a conventional war, the United States would mop the floor with Russia.

Certainly they still have a formidable nuclear arsenal, but would they actually use it because of a proxy war in Syria?

Maybe that's the point. They can't win in a head on fight. So they strategically make alliances where if they were attacked it'd start a new WW. With your enemies unable to directly touch you, you use your group of world known spies to work on putting leaders in power that benefit you. Such as a president that has cabinet members, and friends who work with Russia, is a country divider, and constantly sways everyones sight off of you, and onto China. A president who is also green in politics, has no foreign diplomacy or war time experience, and has plans that could hurt the economy, and worsen an already bad US world image.

 

[Fading]

War should be avoided if possible.

Exactly, war should be the last step when all other options are exhausted, or when quick action is needed to prevent an attack, or save lives. Way too many people are eager to jump to war as a first option, and bring it up casually.

 

[Kelly]

I'm not sure war is ever the way...

 

[Thundercrack85]

Honestly at this rate, the country might turn into a Russian satellite state.

 

[Fading]

I'm not sure war is ever the way...

Personally, when it comes to killing I might as well be a new age hippy. I really strongly believe people don't have the right to take the lives of others outside of self defense of yourself, or defending someone else. I can go on, and on about those left behind, ect. I think the world has just wore me down on that stance a bit. When countries own governments kill their own people, position snipers on rooftops to aim at families, or hand out viagra pills to their soldiers to go 'have fun'...


Starting to rant, lol. I guess my point is some countries governments do such horrible things you want them to be stopped for the sake of the people in that country. Let alone when another country attacks yours, and going to war is just self defense. In a perfect world, obviously I'd say no war ever. However sometimes selfish, apathetic, power hungry, psycopaths get put in positions of extreme power. Sanctions, or harsh words from the UN don't always detour them. Try everything else first obviously, but I think I've just come to recognize some governments will never stop aggressive behavior or attacks until stopped, as bad as that sounds.

 

[Kyle]

Russian involvement in US vote raises fears for European elections

CIA investigation may have implications for upcoming French and German polls, even raising doubts over integrity of Brexit vote

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...raises-fears-for-european-elections?CMP=fb_gu

 

[Ouch]

Russian involvement in US vote raises fears for European elections

CIA investigation may have implications for upcoming French and German polls, even raising doubts over integrity of Brexit vote

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...raises-fears-for-european-elections?CMP=fb_gu

I know one thing, all these countries and these political parties need to seriously improve their cyber security.

 

[Kyle]

Posting this in case anyone hasn't heard of it, or only know the modern day version.

One very odd thing is Trump supporters claiming they're still 'nationalist' since that would mean they're for the US (rather than for their USSR aspirations). It's also odd how this film actually used to be considered a right-wing film by some. The world Trump, his supporters, and Putin want to give us:



Chance of this happening? Very small. But, it is relevant for the times again.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

For those with a lot more knowledge on this than I have, what could Putin's end game be? What could he be trying to put together?

Putin wants the URSS back.
And for that, he wants to annex the rest of Baltic countries, that were once part of the URSS.
It started with Ukraine and Crimea, sadly, i don't believe it will end there.

The all world should have stopped the war in Crimea, no one did a thing. They all said it was bad and they put sanctions, but Putin laughed at it.

No one wants a war, innocents will die, but something needs to be done to stop that tyrant.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

People are saying that a war with Russia would be a breeze to the US.
Well, not only is that a naive view, people forget that China would be involved since they are Russia's closest allies.

Besides, Trump was put in the white house to allow Russia to do what they want, with no opposition.
Trump is Putin's puppet, i said that since day one.

Sadly, unfortunately, i think the WW3 is not a question of IF, but a question of WHEN

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Personally, when it comes to killing I might as well be a new age hippy. I really strongly believe people don't have the right to take the lives of others outside of self defense of yourself, or defending someone else.

It's not about being a new age hippy, it's about being a human being.
War is never the way, if not only because it kills millions of innocents.

And yes, those are the only two reasons when killing is acceptable.

 

[chamber-music]

Poland, Estonia and Lithuania are already nervous about Russia moving some of their nukes to Kaliningrad.

Everyone is sending troops to Eastern Europe.

NATO has deployed a lot of troops in Poland the last few months. 900 US troops will be deployed to Poland.

A 500-strong British battalion will be deployed to Estonia and 150 troops will go to Poland to "reassure" these countries. Nato made a commitment to sure up those countries after Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014.

 

[the gael]

Poland, Estonia and Lithuania are already nervous about Russia moving some of their nukes to Kaliningrad.

Everyone is sending troops to Eastern Europe.

NATO has deployed a lot of troops in Poland the last few months. 900 US troops will be deployed to Poland.

A 500-strong British battalion will be deployed to Estonia and 150 troops will go to Poland to "reassure" these countries. Nato made a commitment to sure up those countries after Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014.

Sadly, it's worst than that. Putin wants the whole continental Europe, and he's ready for that. Some people are really naïve when they believe that preventing Hillary Clinton from being president would avert a war with Russia, because there won't be any war with Russia... Unless there Is no country With a nuclear weapon in front of him.

Nuclear dissuasion is the last thing that prevent a direct confrontation between Russia ans the OTAN since the beginning of the ukainian war.

The Brexit will have a terrible consequence. By doing this, british people have offered to Putin more that he would have expected. Now Putin can put a pression on the UK to keep them out Of the game if needed. The inside fight between northern irish, scottish and english people will greatly help him...

Trump is a puppet. Only France Is still a problem for him. But the possible nightmare of Marine Le Pen becoming president may change that. She will force France exit the EU ( which will kill it ) and align with Putin. With no nuclear power in front of him, there will be a major european war in the next two years, with Hungary invading Slovaquia, Serbia invading Bosnia and Kosovo, France invading Belgium And Russia invading the Baltic states and poland... All for Putin.

 

[samsnee]

Russian Ambassador to Turkey has been murdered. Well Trump, how are you going to handle this one? Start World War 3?

 

[chamber-music]

People are really trying to get World War 3 going!

Crazy times we are living in.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Like Sarajevo.

 

[Wise]

People are really trying to get World War 3 going!

Crazy times we are living in.

They're in for a nasty surprise if they try to draft people in this day and age.

 

[Fading]

I like the quote from GTA IV, (paraphrasing as I don't remember the exact quote)

"War is where the old, and bitter convince the young, and stupid to die for them."


The difference is even the youth are bitter now, lol. I'm sure plenty of late teens, early twenties would take jail over being drafted. Don't get me wrong, a lot of young people still go into the military willingly, but the age group the draft targets is more defiant than when the draft was last used.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Wall Street Journal - Russia Signs Cooperation Agreement With Anti-Immigrant Party in Austria

http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-...th-anti-immigrant-party-in-austria-1482170810

BERLIN—Russia’s ruling party signed a five-year “cooperation agreement” with the anti-immigrant Freedom Party of Austria, one of the clearest signs that the Kremlin is seeking to deepen ties with nationalist and antiestablishment forces in the West.

The two-page agreement, reached in Moscow after Freedom Party leaders met with officials from Russian President Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party, spells out a common commitment to holding regular joint meetings and public events while working to strengthen social and economic ties between Russia and Austria.

The accord is the latest example of Russian efforts to forge ties with antiestablishment, euroskeptic parties in Europe, many of which in turn promote closer ties to Moscow and rolling back the European Union. Marine Le Pen’s National Front has tapped a Russian bank for a loan to help fund its election efforts in France, for instance. Meanwhile, antiestablishment politicians such as Ms. Le Pen, Britain’s Nigel Farage and Geert Wilders, head of the Netherlands’ Party for Freedom, have bashed the EU in interviews on Russian television.

The Freedom Party, which has campaigned on xenophobic, anti-Islam rhetoric and casts itself as an alternative to Europe’s political establishment, is in the opposition in Austrian parliament.

Freedom Party officials also traveled to the U.S. just before the U.S. election for meetings with allies of President-elect Trump. Johann Gudenus, a senior Freedom Party official, said his delegation discussed with the Russians the opportunities for better U.S.-Russian ties after Mr. Trump takes over and the need to end Western sanctions on Russia.

 

[Kyle]

Le Penn should be kicked out of Austria. Her whole "there can only be a percentage of this or that race here and there" is simply sick and utterly disturbing.

 

[terry78]

I like the quote from GTA IV, (paraphrasing as I don't remember the exact quote)

"War is where the old, and bitter convince the young, and stupid to die for them."


The difference is even the youth are bitter now, lol. I'm sure plenty of late teens, early twenties would take jail over being drafted. Don't get me wrong, a lot of young people still go into the military willingly, but the age group the draft targets is more defiant than when the draft was last used.

Rather get my bum violated than die.

 

[Mr.Culpeper]

How much of a threat can Russia legitimately be? Heard he was also financing far-right political leader Le Pen and heard that he might be trying to hack another election, forgot where though... The rise of the far-right is crazy right now.

 

[Kyle]

Evidently another Congressman thinks it's wrong to call Putin a warmonger...

GOP congressman: 'Warmongers' in Congress are wrong to call Putin a 'war criminal'

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, a Republican from California, said in a radio interview Thursday that "warmongers" like Sen. Marco Rubio are setting the wrong tone by calling Russian President Vladimir Putin a "war criminal."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/13/politics/kfile-rohrabacher-putin-war-criminal/index.html

 

[Mysteryman]

I'm not sure war is ever the way...

Nope.
It Never is.