🇷🇺🇺🇦 Discussion: Relations with Russia and the war in Ukraine

[Iceman]

Honestly feel sick after hearing that stuff today. 4 more years of this crap.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

 

[Lily Adler]

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

 

[Link]

This is just unbelievably vile. The conversation is about Ukraine's sovereignty and the countless lives lost in this conflict, and all these tiny, tiny American men want to talk about is their egos while wagging their fingers at someone who's portrayed more courage and leadership during this conflict than these hateful, unremarkable trolls could in a hundred lifetimes. Everything is ****ed.

 

[Link]

I watched a nine-minute clip at the end of the press conference, and it was simply disturbing. Trump keeps talking about the whole thing like it's business, like they're making a business deal, and he and Vance keep bringing up how Zelenskyi should be thanking them, thanking America, they want him to be demure because their egos crave a humiliation ritual. There's no version of this where they could've shown more contempt for Ukraine, for world peace, for humanity. Trump and Vance don't have a clue what they're even talking about, and they don't care enough to hide it. Trump kept putting his hands on Zelenskyi, on his face, and the president was able to keep his cool, somehow. Trump went on a deranged rant about Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and freaking HUNTER BIDEN in front of him. He was bitter that Zelenskyi hadn't endorsed him during his campaign. This is all just... absolute madness. This has nothing to do with politics, this piece of **** failed businessman is an extinction-level threat to world peace, and it feels like there's nothing any of us who actually care about anything can do.

 

[HammerDown]

Trump is a compromised president.

It’s pretty clear to me that Putin is the puppet master and is the one pulling the strings in the background. Putin has dirt on Trump, he borrowed Trump money and other Russian important people pumped money into Trump’s businesses. Putin/Russia invested on Trump and is now collecting that investment and there’s little Trump can do about it other than obey to their demands.

The guise that Trump is focusing on the US and defending its interests while also trying to present himself as a peacemaker is just a facade to cover up to the fact the he’s a puppet and is doing Putin’s biding.

Many of the Trump critics try and explain it like Trump is oblivious to what Putin/Russia is but in reality he’s fully aware of what he’s dealing with and simply doesn’t care and has to continue to double down on their agenda because he simply doesn’t have any other option.

On the other side a ton of people under Trump’s influence are oblivious to the fact that they themselves are simple pawns on this bigger chessboard. Those that choose to be sellouts will eventually pay a bigger political price when Trump eventually fades away from world politics and they are left with the lingering stench of being made to look like fools by standing on Trump’s shoulders and defending his manipulative narratives.

The faster people/politicians/countries understand that Trump Is in Putin’s pocket the faster they’ll act/react accordingly.

 

[squeekness]

 

[squeekness]

So sad to be American right now.

 

[Hobgoblin]

A coworker told me that she’s glad that Trump has the guts to stand up for us. Ukraine has taken billions of dollars from us and we’ll actually get it back with the mineral deal.

The chasm in worldview is amazing.

 

[HammerDown]

One great thing came out of this is, is that now all the cards are on the table and everyone(Ukraine, Trump’s US, Russia and Europe) can hedge their bets. Trump’s intentions are crystal clear and everyone should be put on notice. From all parties involved here’s where the situation stands:

- Ukraine is being forced to accept the cease fire by the US at their own expense.
- Ukraine is being forced to accept the mining deal by the US without little meaningful in return.
- There won’t be any US securities guaranties moving forward.
- Trump’s US will not back Ukraine anymore.
- Russia keeps everything they took.
- Russia won’t accept any foreign military contingent in Ukraine under any pretense.
- Russia and Trump want snap elections in order to pry Zelensky away from power, possibly to put a Russian friendly puppet figure in his place.
- Europe wants somewhat of a just peace and is willing to send a military peacekeeping contingent to prevent any further aggression.

With everyone’s cards on the table I think that a peace deal only happens at the expense of Ukraine with Russia coming out emboldened to keep on meddling with Ukraine’s democracy and eventually either install a puppet government a la Belarus or take it by force without any credible opposition.

I would say if Trump wants to abandon Ukraine and Europe to its own devices, we should take his word on it and act accordingly for the foreseeable feature. Europe should bite the bullet and help Ukraine ride this 4 year storm, Europe should double down on its support for Ukraine and be by its side as both are geographical forever linked and common interests should be uncompromisingly defended.

 

[squeekness]

 

[squeekness]

 

[HammerDown]

If Trump continues to act up and get on everyone’s nerves and specially Ukraine and Europe with his antics then if I where Zelensky I would take that mineral deal and put it on Europe’s table since they are the only ones seemingly offering something meaningful in return. That would be a white glove slap to both Trump and Russia. It’s about time Europe wakes up too, flexes its muscles and stands it’s ground.

 

[HammerDown]

EU offers its own ‘win-win’ minerals deal to Ukraine

 

[squeekness]

 

[Steyin]

I say Zelensky should just take Trump out the next time they're in a room together. Do us all a favor.

 

[Hobgoblin]

People haven’t thought through the consequences of the US leaving NATO. If we do, and Russia somehow screws with the EU (not necessarily militarily) it will completely mess with the world economy.

 

[Lily Adler]

People haven’t thought through the consequences of the US leaving NATO. If we do, and Russia somehow screws with the EU (not necessarily militarily) it will completely mess with the world economy.

MAGA: America First!

 

[squeekness]

We are so screwed. Unless protests soar, Trump is going to get us all killed while Putin just laughs. Pulling us out of NATO would be a huge mistake.

 

[blueharvest]

 

[blueharvest]

 

[Hobgoblin]

We all know that the actual deal making and bargaining would be done privately behind closed doors. All they had to do for this was play nice and smile for the cameras. That’s all they had to do.

 

[squeekness]

We all know that the actual deal making and bargaining would be done privately behind closed doors. All they had to do for this was play nice and smile for the cameras. That’s all they had to do.

Trump doesn't know how to play nice, all he knows is insulting people.

 

[squeekness]