15 Year Old Dies In Prank Gone Wrong

[jmc]

It's paranoia is what it is.

 

[charl_huntress]

Charl, i'm sorry if what i'm about to say is going to offend you... You mentioned before that you've had a bad experience with this home invasion stuff, yes? It's very likely that that's the reason why you feel so strongly about this. I dunno what happened, and you don't need to tell us...but maybe you've not really gotten over the experience. Making your house into a fortress...hidden weapons...that's a worrying signals, Charl.

lol...It really is all about safety. I have a keen sense of what the worse of the human race can do. I don't try to block that out. I will say...I am more cautious than most because of that.

Oh, believe me. I'm scared to go into your zip code! Also, it's nice to see how little you respect the lives of others. I can see you someday making a fatal mistake. Maybe one of your kids or a niece/nephew comes to your house, it's late but they need your help for something but, it's after dark so, BLAM!

lol...No...that won't happen because my family raises responsible children. Not hooligans. Not idiots. Not fools. Just responsible people who are aware of their surroundings. Some other families can't say the same. That's why we need licenses for parents...lol

It's paranoia is what it is.

It's foolishness...from idiots and fools. That's really all it is. Why some want to classify me as the weirdo... I think the real problem is I'm not classifying the fools in this scenario.

 

[X Knight]

Charl, am I, like, the only one here who agrees with you or at least understands where you are coming from?? lol

 

[Feenix]

Yes.

This whole line of thinking is dangerous and irresponsible.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

I undertood her too...i just don't agree with her on this matter

 

[X Knight]

I feel like deadly force should be the LAST RESORT.

However, if you feel like your life, your family, and your property is being threatened ( and I'm talking home security, not stuff like your car or smart phone ), you should have the right to defend yourself.

if the other person doesn't want to get hurt, or worse die, then he shouldn't be invading your home or threatening your personal safety.

and if you're in a situation where you are on someone else's property, then you shouldn't be doing stupid **** or acting suspiciously which may lead to the homeowner feeling threatened and which may result in something happening to you.

 

[bullets]

I think Charl should be able to defend herself if her life is in danger. The only problem is that its hard to make that distinction in the middle of the night. Killing should should be a last resort but if you tell the intruder you have a weapon and are calling the police it should be enough.

 

[charl_huntress]

Charl, am I, like, the only one here who agrees with you or at least understands where you are coming from?? lol

Yeah...

 

[jmc]

I feel like deadly force should be the LAST RESORT.

However, if you feel like your life, your family, and your property is being threatened ( and I'm talking home security, not stuff like your car or smart phone ), you should have the right to defend yourself.

if the other person doesn't want to get hurt, or worse die, then he shouldn't be invading your home or threatening your personal safety.

and if you're in a situation where you are on someone else's property, then you shouldn't be doing stupid **** or acting suspiciously which may lead to the homeowner feeling threatened and which may result in something happening to you.

Defence of life is seperate from defence of property, if you are under attack then by all means you defend yourself in what ever way you can, if someone wanders into your yard there's responsibility on the owners part to assess the situation and not jump to conclusions. Anyone who thinks the defence of the home is on equal footing to defending life needs to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.

 

[X Knight]

I think Charl should be able to defend herself if her life is in danger. The only problem is that its hard to make that distinction in the middle of the night. Killing should should be a last resort but if you tell the intruder you have a weapon and are calling the police it should be enough.

and that's precisely the point.

it would be nice if we could carefully assess the threat to determine if deadly force is warranted. but real life doesn't happen that way. by the time you try to make that assessment, you could wind up dead.

and if someone is invading your home in the middle of the night, that person isn't there for cookies. he ( or she ) has ill intent. telling him that you've called the cops and have a weapon may or may not ward off the threat.

 

[X Knight]

Defence of life is seperate from defence of property, if you are under attack then by all means you defend yourself in what ever way you can, if someone wanders into your yard there's responsibility on the owners part to assess the situation and not jump to conclusions. Anyone who thinks the defence of the home is on equal footing to defending life needs to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.

if someone is breaking into your home, I take that as a threat to your own personal safety.

I'm not saying shoot anyone who wanders onto your yard. I'd call the cops first if someone was wandering around my yard in the middle of the night. but if that person starts breaking down a window or door, then all bets are off.

 

[jmc]

if someone is breaking into your home, I take that as a threat to your own personal safety.

Assuming you're even home at the time.

 

[bullets]

That why I mentioned earlier that this defend your property doctorate sounds vague and requires more specifics. I can't imagine shooting someone for doing graffiti on my wall. Unless we are talking about then smashing a door or window to get inside. People might wander through your yard for several reasons that might not be suspect. Unless you built a fortress like Charl Huntress has done.

 

[charl_huntress]

I feel like deadly force should be the LAST RESORT. However, if you feel like your life, your family, and your property is being threatened ( and I'm talking home security, not stuff like your car or smart phone ), you should have the right to defend yourself. if the other person doesn't want to get hurt, or worse die, then he shouldn't be invading your home or threatening your personal safety. and if you're in a situation where you are on someone else's property, then you shouldn't be doing stupid **** or acting suspiciously which may lead to the homeowner feeling threatened and which may result in something happening to you.

 

[bullets]

and that's precisely the point.

it would be nice if we could carefully assess the threat to determine if deadly force is warranted. but real life doesn't happen that way. by the time you try to make that assessment, you could wind up dead.

and if someone is invading your home in the middle of the night, that person isn't there for cookies. he ( or she ) has ill intent. telling him that you've called the cops and have a weapon may or may not ward off the threat.

I think it's worth the effort to try to defuse the situation , but yes it depends on who your dealing with.

 

[X Knight]

That why I mentioned earlier that this defend your property doctorate sounds vague and requires more specifics. I can't imagine shooting someone for doing graffiti on my wall. Unless we are talking about then smashing a door or window to get inside. People might wander through your yard for several reasons that might not be suspect. Unless you built a fortress like Charl Huntress has done.

well, you shouldn't be doing graffiti on the walls of someone else's property in the first place.

now, does that warrant you getting shot? no.

but if you get shot at for doing stupid, disrespectful **** like that, then I don't exactly feel sorry for you, either.

respect other people's stuff and, hopefully, they'll respect you back.

 

[X Knight]

I think it's worth the effort to try to defuse the situation , but yes it depends on who your dealing with.

absolutely.

and in an ideal world, we should try to defuse the threat.

but we don't live in an ideal world. we live in reality, and sometimes things aren't so black and white.

and to bring this back to the original case, defusing the situation is exactly what the gunman FAILED TO DO, now that we know he waited for 45 minutes for the kids to return and deliberately shot at them to "scare them."

He had plenty of time to defuse the situation and handle it in a more peaceful/civil manner. that is, call the cops.

but he chose vengeance and violence. and in doing so, he became the aggressor, the attacker.

if those are indeed the facts of the case, that doesn't bode well for his defense.

and again, it all comes down to.............RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE!!

ultimately, the father is the one responsible for the tragic death of that girl.

but what started it all in the 1st place?

it seems the gunman's son pulled a similar prank on the other kids. so they got pissed and decided to mess with the other family's stuff and pay him back with a prank of their own.

so they trashed the father's car. and he got pissed and decided to pull off his own "prank" by trying to scare the kids by shooting at them while they were driving away.

it ended tragically with several people wounded and one girl dead.

and what's even worse is that we don't even know if that girl herself actually took part in the prank. she could have just been with the group.

but do you see what we have here?

we have a tragic cycle of stupidity and irresponsible behavior from ALL PARTIES involved.

 

[bullets]

well, you shouldn't be doing graffiti on the walls of someone else's property in the first place.

now, does that warrant you getting shot? no.

but if you get shot at for doing stupid, disrespectful **** like that, then I don't exactly feel sorry for you, either.

respect other people's stuff and, hopefully, they'll respect you back.

I did a lot of terrible things when I was younger. When I was 15 I went around the neighborhood and slashed tires for the hell of it. I hate myself for doing that . Especially now that I understand what a pain in the ass it is to get things fixed and the financial burden. So there's a part of me that understands people will make mistakes , but I'm not defending it either. You just can't shoot at them though. Most people would probably run off if you came outside and caught them.

 

[bullets]

The gunman in this case definitely deserves jail time. There's just some things you don't do. I am curious about the laws of defending property and where everyone stands on these issues. I'm not trying to derail the thread or fuel any arguments. So hopefully that's not how I come across.

 

[X Knight]

I did a lot of terrible things when I was younger. When I was 15 I went around the neighborhood and slashed tires for the hell of it. I hate myself for doing that . Especially now that I understand what a pain in the ass it is to get things fixed and the financial burden. So there's a part of me that understands people will make mistakes , but I'm not defending it either. You just can't shoot at them though. Most people would probably run off if you came outside and caught them.

and that's true.

"reasonable" people would probably not shoot a kid for slashing tires or doing graffiti. they'd scare the kid off and/or call the cops.

but, not everyone is reasonable. and you never know how people will react if you engage in such behavior.

 

[bullets]

When your younger you feel invincible or just more daring. These kids probably had no clue this was coming to them.

It's stupid that criminals will risk breaking into a home with the possibility of someone being home. Then you just have the crazies or people on drugs.

There's always the x factor with gun owners as well. Unfortunately the gun debate will go on forever because there are always people who will act irresponsibly and its unfair to everyone else.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

According to Raven X you only need to feel or think your life is in danger. It doesn't have to actually be in danger...

You know like the cop who recently shot someone for answering their door with a Wiimote.

 

[X Knight]

When your younger you feel invincible or just more daring. These kids probably had no clue this was coming to them.

It's stupid that criminals will risk breaking into a home with the possibility of someone being home. Then you just have the crazies or people on drugs.

There's always the x factor with gun owners as well. Unfortunately the gun debate will go on forever because there are always people who will act irresponsibly and its unfair to everyone else.

agreed.

 

[Hotwire]

lol...No...that won't happen because my family raises responsible children. Not hooligans. Not idiots. Not fools. Just responsible people who are aware of their surroundings. Some other families can't say the same. That's why we need licenses for parents...lol

And of course, none of them will ever get scared and make a "stupid" decision. But wait, being scared is a perfectly rational reason for responsible people to do foolish things. It's just not acceptable for anyone else.

 

[X Knight]

According to Raven X you only need to feel or think your life is in danger. It doesn't have to actually be in danger...

You know like the cop who recently shot someone for answering their door with a Wiimote.

don't know about that cop case. it sounds like a tragic mistake where the cop mistook the Wiimote for a gun/weapon.

as for the danger issue......

well, I'm not a lawyer, and maybe others here who are more knowledgeable about the law can comment on this, but how do we define "danger?" how can you tell if you are "actually in danger?"

doesn't it come down to how one "feels" about the situation or perceives it?

it's not like a video game where someone who's a danger or threat to you comes with a flashing red indicator.

unless the aggressor comes out and says point blank "I'm going to break into your house now and rob you," which seems very unlikely, how else are you going to perceive the situation besides judging the other person's actions?

I'd say, in the majority of situations, if you feel or think you are in danger, you most likely are already in danger.