2009 NFL Draft Thread (aka Excel & Norman's personal b**ch and moan thread)

[StorminNorman]

We'll see. Johnson got robbed of the pro bowl though I forget the other NFC guys who went. However whether he makes Stafford a pro bowl dude I dunno. If they bench Staff for 09 in favor him being the guy in 2010 I could see Staff-CJ being a wannabe Culpepper-Moss.

Stafford to Johnson will make forget about Culpepper-Moss.

Ill explain it like this; Moss is so smart that he knows if he produced even remotely well in Oakland, theres no way he gets traded to a team with a real qb. So he sucks for a season, gets traded, and makes up for it and then some the next year in NE

But, if Calvin was on a winning team? I dunno, but you do gotta think him getting 50% of the pass looks helps him out.

He is going to get 50% of the pass looks if he is on any team...other than Arizona.

 

[Excel]

Stafford to Johnson will make forget about Culpepper-Moss.

Ocho Cinco tried it.

He is going to get 50% of the pass looks if he is on any team...other than Arizona.

Thats more than Randys gotten either year here,

 

[StorminNorman]

Worst Mock Draft (from a legit outlet) I have seen yet...

No, your not seeing things - they really did just seem to ignore picks 28 and 32.

Also, if Denver drafts like that...McDaniels should be fired before Round 3.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Denver taking Brandon Pettigrew.

 

[Excel]

Jesus!

Surely thats a joke, I mean, for real...Denver not using 1st rounder for defense?

 

[Cmill216]

Who the **** is Fili Moala?

 

[StorminNorman]

Isn't that a bone in the human body?

Again - they have no pick for 28 or 32.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Or, in otherwords, there is a VERY real chance Randy Moss retires from the NFL as #1 All Time in touchdown reception; a record Moss would obviously much closer to had he spent his whole carreer with a top 5 all time QB like Rice had through his 1st 11 seasons.

Steve Young is not a Top 5 all time QB. Top 10 maybe.

Wah?

In Moss's 1st season, his QB's were Brad Johnson for 1 game and Randall Cunningham for the other 15. Cunningham had BARELY played the previous year. Johnson had Jon Kitna in his 1st season, whose clearly better than B. Johnson and was more fresh than Cunningham. While Randy had to "fight" for rec. with Cris Carter, CJ had to fight with Roy Williams. Randy had over 1300 yards and 17 touchdowns.

Jon Kitna has never started on a team that won more than 8 games in his life, and never won a playoff game. Not to mention, CJ played all of abut 10 games with him over a span of 2 seasons.

Cunnigham led that Vikings team to a 15-1 record and was a botched FG away from going to a Super Bowl, he also had gaudy passing stats and made the Pro Bowl.

Johnson had 700 yards and 4 touchdowns.

CJ wretched his back in Week 3 and sat out a large part of the end of the season hurt.

Moss was playing on a team that went 15-1.

Johnson was playing on a team that just went 0-16.

Johnson has the ability to be a better WR than Randy Moss is simply because he has similar tools to work with, similar talent to play with and with a far far far better head on his shoulders.

finally someone talking some sense

It went 15-1 because they had the greatest offense ever until the Pats 2007; Moss alone would outscore teams. Why isnt Calvin doing that?

1. 0 -16
2. Dan Orlovsky
3. Daunte Culpepper
4. Drew Stanton
5. Drew Henson
6. 0 -16

(and yet he STILL almost made the Pro Bowl)

of course if Calvin had the Patriot logo on his helmet, I'm syre we'd be having a very different conversation right now.

 

[Excel]

Please. Johnsons the closest thing to Moss since Moss...but he's no Moss.

 

[StorminNorman]

Larry Fitzgerald > Randy Moss

I would take Fitzgerald now than Randy Moss at any time in his career. Every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[Excel]

Larry Fitzgerald > Randy Moss

I would take Fitzgerald now than Randy Moss at any time in his career. Every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

1. They completely different kinds of wr's, but still...

You cannot be serious. Literally, that comment was obviously a spur of the moment thing because any rational thinking says otherwise; Moss in his prime over Fitz right now? Is that a joke? Moss, the guys averaged a touchdown oer game in 4 SEPERATE SEASONS behind Fitz, whose averaged 9 td a season over his carreer so far?

Seriously, that HAS to be a joke. I mean for real, how can you possibly even BEGIN to back that up? Fitzgerald is an excellent wide receiver, but Randy Moss is Randy Moss. This claim is way too ridiculous to even think about it; if you have the exact same teams playing eachother except as the 31 wo one time had Fitzgerald right now, and the other Moss in his prime, the team with Moss wins every single game. Randy Moss was and arguably still is (in 2007 there was no question) the most dangerous weapon any quarterback has ever had not named Jerry Rice.

Imo what I have just said is not even arguable; Moss's tape from Minnesota to even Okaland and espec. with the Pats is off the charts.

"Fitz right now over Moss at any time in his carreer" man Norm you crack me up.

 

[StorminNorman]

You cannot be serious. Seriously, that HAS to be a joke. I mean for real, how can you possibly even BEGIN to back that up? Fitzgerald is an excellent wide receiver, but Randy Moss is Randy Moss. This claim is way too ridiculous to even think about it; if you have the exact same teams playing eachother except as the 31 wo one time had Fitzgerald right now, and the other Moss in his prime, the team with Moss wins every single game. Randy Moss was and arguably still is (in 2007 there was no question) the most dangerous weapon any quarterback has ever had not named Jerry Rice.

Imo what I have just said is not even arguable; Moss's tape from Minnesota to even Okaland and espec. with the Pats is off the charts.

"Fitz right now over Moss at any time in his carreer" man Norm you crack me up.

Fitzgerald, in the post-season, had 30 catches, 546 yards, and 7 TD. And this was with EVERYONE focused on him. It was one of the most dominating post seasons by any player at any time at any position.

Fitzgerald's best year (not including Post Season) was 96 receptions for 1431 yards.

Moss's best year in 2007: 98 receptions for 1493 yards.

Fitzgerald has better ball skills. He may not have Moss's speed, but he will out work Randy Moss every day.

I will take the hard worker with phenomenal talent over the slacker with even more talent.

I consider Fitzgerald the better Wide Receiver. And for me, it's not really close.

 

[Excel]

Fitzgerald, in the post-season, had 30 catches, 546 yards, and 7 TD. And this was with EVERYONE focused on him. It was one of the most dominating post seasons by any player at any time at any position.

Wow, he had an insane stretch of games. Is he like that every week for a full season? Of course not. Dominationg "post seasons"; Moss had 23 TOUCHDOWNS in a FULL season

Fitzgerald's best year (not including Post Season) was 96 receptions for 1431 yards.

No, Moss's best seaosn yardage wise was 2003 when he had 111 rec for 1,632 yards.

Fitzgerald has better ball skills. He may not have Moss's speed, but he will out work Randy Moss every day.

Better ball skills, are you serious? Do you even know what "to Moss" means? Randy Moss literally invented the art of going up and snatching the ball out of the air; attacking the ball. You see Fitzgerald go out and make a few plays where he lays out for the diving catch and assume he has better ball skills. No ****ing way, that is a joke. Nobody-NOBODY-in the NFL has better. Soon Moss will be the all time leader in touchdown receptions over:

-40 yards
-50 yards
-60 yards

Guess what, not all of those throws perfect. Lets talk touchdowns.
-There is a reason why Moss scored 50 touchdowns in 2 seasons while he was in college.
-There is a reason he scored 17 touchdowns in his rookie season.
-There is a reason he has had 4 seasons where he averaged over 1 touchdown per game
-There is a reason he holds the record for touchdowns in a single season

And the reason is OBVIOUS: Randy Moss is the most effective red zone wide receiver since Jerry Rice, and by the time he retires, Rices name wont even be relevant. It took Moss 3 seasons to score as many touchdowns as Fitzgerald has in 5.

Through their first 5 seasons, Moss has 800 yards more. And not to mention, Moss was keyed on by defenses a lot more during his first 5 years than Fitzgerald was. Fitz has spent his entire time playing with Boldin, and did not dominate to nearly the extent or nearly as soon as Moss did. Moss effected the Green Bay Packers ENTIRE 1999 draft.

And besides that, who are you kidding, it isnt just speed. Besides the fact that Moss in his prime ran a 4.25 compared to Fitzs 4.54, Moss is:

1. Bigger (6'4 to 6'3)
2. Can Jump Higher
3. Better vision of the field
4. Body control

I will take the hard worker with phenomenal talent over the slacker with even more talent

Um, just because Fitzgerald "works harder" (not sure what you base that on) doesnt mean Moss is a slacker; it just means Fitz works harder. Moss wasnt named a captain in New England by all those vets because he is a "slacker"

I consider Fitzgerald the better Wide Receiver. And for me, it's not really close

I think this statement speaks for itself.

 

[StorminNorman]

Wow, he had an insane stretch of games. Is he like that every week for a full season? Of course not. Dominationg "post seasons"; Moss had 23 TOUCHDOWNS in a FULL season

Moss had 24 Touchdowns in all of 2007. 1 in the Post Season.
Fitzgerald had 21 Touchdowns in all of 2008. 7 in the Post Season.

I know which I would rather have.

No, Moss's best seaosn yardage wise was 2003 when he had 111 rec for 1,632 yards.

You are correct, my mistake.

Better ball skills, are you serious? Do you even know what "to Moss" means? Randy Moss literally invented the art of going up and snatching the ball out of the air; attacking the ball.

Don't care, Fitzgerald does it better.

Um, just because Fitzgerald "works harder" (not sure what you base that on) doesnt mean Moss is a slacker; it just means Fitz works harder. Moss wasnt named a captain in New England by all those vets because he is a "slacker"

No, Moss's well documented history of being a slacker does.

I think this statement speaks for itself.

I stand by it.

 

[Excel]

The only person anybody can try to say is better than Moss right now is Calvin. Thats it.

Moss had 24 Touchdowns in all of 2007. 1 in the Post Season.
Fitzgerald had 21 Touchdowns in all of 2008. 7 in the Post Season.

Actually Fitzgerald 19 (12+7), which still a lot less than 24. But if thats how you wanna play it, tell me Fitzs 2nd highest seasonal total; Randys-including the playoffs now-is 19, from 1998.

I know which I would rather have.

So do I ; the more touchdowns, the better chance I have to win.

Don't care, Fitzgerald does it better

But appearently not nearly as often nor as close/in the end zone, so that really is irrelevant.

No, Moss's well documented history of being a slacker does.

You said at any point in his carreer; in 2007 there zero documented incidents.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

WR's Percy Harvin and Brandon Tate test positive for marijuana.

Wide receivers Percy Harvin and Brandon Tate tested positive for marijuana during February's NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis, two sources told FOXSports.com.
The news could be potentially damaging to the wide receivers' stock during this weekend's NFL draft.
Harvin was considered a first-round pick after leaving the University of Florida following his junior season. Tate was considered a possible second- to fourth-round pick after a solid college career at North Carolina.
Joel Segal, the agent who represents both players, didn't return messages from FOXSports.com seeking comment.
NFL teams received the drug-test results earlier this week, according to FOXSports.com.
Sources told FOXSports.com Harvin and Tate were the only two high-profile players to flunk their combine drug tests, and one of the sources said that fewer than a dozen players tested positive for recreational drugs.
Players who failed the tests are subject to entry into the NFL's substance-abuse program.
Harvin finished his college career with 133 receptions for 1,929 yards and 13 touchdowns and 194 carries for 1,852 yards and 19 scores. He averaged 9.5 yards per carry and 11.6 yards every time he touched the ball. He also posted a strong 4.39 seconds in the 40-yard dash at the combine.
He was at his best in big games, earning MVP honors in the 2006 Southeastern Conference championship game and totaling 171 yards and a touchdown in a victory over Oklahoma in the Bowl Championship Series national title game in January.
He lined up at receiver, running back and quarterback for the Gators but expects to do even more at the next level because several teams have already talked to him about returning kickoffs and punts.
Tate finished his career with an NCAA-record 3,523 career combined kick-return yards. Before tearing two knee ligaments midway through his senior year, he averaged 23.5 yards on his 16 receptions.
Tate, still recovering from his injury, didn't work out at the combine.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=4087941

 

[Excel]

Harvin will go the Patriots in the 2nd round at some point Im guessing.

 

[StorminNorman]

The only person anybody can try to say is better than Moss right now is Calvin. Thats it.

Moss is more naturally gifted. Fitzgerald is the better player.

Actually Fitzgerald 19 (12+7), which still a lot less than 24. But if thats how you wanna play it, tell me Fitzs 2nd highest seasonal total; Randys-including the playoffs now-is 19, from 1998.

You are correct, my math was fuzzy. This was the first year Fitzgerald had stability around him - something Moss did have in Minnesota.

So do I ; the more touchdowns, the better chance I have to win.

What's the point of winning? To make the Post Season. Give me the guy that dominates the Post Season over the guy that dominates the Regular Season.

You said at any point in his carreer; in 2007 there zero documented incidents.

Don't care. I want the player who I never have to doubt.

 

[Excel]

Moss is more naturally gifted. Fitzgerald is the better player.

But Moss puts up better #'s and has a greater effect on his offenses.

This was the first year Fitzgerald had stability around him - something Moss did have in Minnesota.

Outside of 1998 and 2003 the teams Moss played on in Minnesota sucked. And besides, stability or not Moss still had significantly better #'s.

What's the point of winning? To make the Post Season. Give me the guy that dominates the Post Season over the guy that dominates the Regular Season.

Moss dominated every post season he played in until 2007 where he saw triple if not quadruple coverage every play (why do you think the middle was so open for Faulk and Welker?); something Fitz NEVER saw thanks to Breaston and Boldin.

Don't care. I want the player who I never have to doubt.

Than you want to score less points as well.

 

[StorminNorman]

Moss is more naturally gifted. Fitzgerald is the better player.

But Moss puts up better #'s and has a greater effect on his offenses.

Fitzgerald is more important to Arizona than Moss is to the Patriots.

Outside of 1998 and 2003 the teams Moss played on in Minnesota sucked. And besides, stability or not Moss still had significantly better #'s.

The Vikings were a playoff team in 1999, 2000 and 2004. In 2004 Daunte had an MVP-like year.

Moss dominated every post season he played in until 2007 where he saw triple if not quadruple coverage every play (why do you think the middle was so open for Faulk and Welker?); something Fitz NEVER saw thanks to Breaston and Boldin.

Boldin missed, arguably, Fitzgerald's most impressive game in the post season.

Than you want to score less points as well.

No, I want to win more.

 

[Dark Donnie]

I'd like to see video of Moss getting quadruple coverage.

 

[Excel]

Fitzgerald is more important to Arizona than Moss is to the Patriots.

That isnt true at all; just the difference fromthe Pats offense from 2006 to 2007.

The Vikings were a playoff team in 1999, 2000 and 2004. In 2004 Daunte had an MVP-like year.

Culpepper was money in 2004; but those teams were never very impressive outside of 04 and 1998.

No, I want to win more.

Thanks John, just remember to win, you need to outscore your opponent

 

[StorminNorman]

That isnt true at all; just the difference fromthe Pats offense from 2006 to 2007.

New England went from the 11th ranked offense to the 1st.

Can you picture Arizona without Fitzgerald?

Culpepper was money in 2004; but those teams were never very impressive outside of 04 and 1998.

 

[Excel]

I'd like to see video of Moss getting quadruple coverage.

Well unfortunatley he didnt do anything against it than I can really remember so theres no tape of it online, but I can show what happened when teams tried to put 3 guys on him (and how it failed, hence why they added a fourth):

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8022aae8
1:35; for better viewing, watch 1:46. Thats literally exactly what Moss did triple coverage all season. Perfect example; picture perfect.

 

[Excel]

New England went from the 11th ranked offense to the 1st.

Can you picture Arizona without Fitzgerald?

Yeah, theyd throw to their other pro bowl wide out and their 1000 yard slot guy who runs deep routes.