2012 Presidential Election (87 days and counting...)

Who do you think will win the presidency in 2012?

  • Barack Obama

  • Mitt Romney

  • Other


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Back OT for a second, if Romney did make HCR/Obamacare a central campaign issue they'd have to discuss it at length in a debate. How much would it hurt his campaign if Obama just smiled and said something along the lines of, "I don't know why you're criticizing healthcare reform and want to repeal it. In fact, I'd like to thank you. Without what you did by passing the individual mandate in Massachusetts, I don't think the Affordable Care Act would be what it is today. I'm fine with sharing some of the credit, that's why I think people should call it 'Obamneycare' instead of 'Romneycare.'"

Therein lies why the Republicans can't attack this as full-throatedly as they'd like. If Obama actually did that kind of thing in a debate, Romney would look terrible trying to back his way out of the comparison like he always did in republican debates. The economy is weak and that's where one would think he'd aim. Going furiously after ACA could really backfire on him.

In fact, I hope that he does and it will.
 
I think some may be overestimating how much someone is influenced by the politics of where they grow up. Or even their parents. Who here has the same political views as their parents?

Superman is obviously a liberal. He's an illegal immigrant. He wants to get rid of nukes. And he's part of the liberal media.

I agree that Spider-man seems fairly apolitical though.
 
Back OT for a second, if Romney did make HCR/Obamacare a central campaign issue they'd have to discuss it at length in a debate. How much would it hurt his campaign if Obama just smiled and said something along the lines of, "I don't know why you're criticizing healthcare reform and want to repeal it. In fact, I'd like to thank you. Without what you did by passing the individual mandate in Massachusetts, I don't think the Affordable Care Act would be what it is today. I'm fine with sharing some of the credit, that's why I think people should call it 'Obamneycare' instead of 'Romneycare.'"

Therein lies why the Republicans can't attack this as full-throatedly as they'd like. If Obama actually did that kind of thing in a debate, Romney would look terrible trying to back his way out of the comparison like he always did in republican debates. The economy is weak and that's where one would think he'd aim. Going furiously after ACA could really backfire on him.

In fact, I hope that he does and it will.

That's what PACs are for.
 
That's what PACs are for.

Even if the PACS attack Obama for Obamacare, you don't think he(or the moderator) will bring it up at the debates with Romney and Romney will most likely look like a fool for trying to wiggle his way out of the question

You have to know Obama will go for the jugular with Romney Care when they face to face knowing their is no possible way he can answer the question correctly. the only way he can sort of wiggle out of it is saying it's a good plan but healthcare should be done at the state level(but that being said he then admits it's a good plan)
 
Sorry it took so long to respond to this, but I was a bit out of time which hindered my abilities to do really long posts on the Hype.

Yeah, actually the more I just thought about it, Batman is probably a liberal. I don't know if he'd be part of any political party and would vote and throw fundraisers for candidates he likes, regardless of party, but nationally he's more inclined to agree with Democrats. He believes in social responsibility and that the rich, like himself, have a duty to improve the lives of the poor and unfortunate and that in a society that it is their duty to provide a social safety net for the downtrodden and those who suffer at the bottom of a community--probably from his very New Deal-esque father's values. But, on matters of local politics he can be more conservative. I think he'd probably believe in more robust law enforcement and the right of authority in the pretense of security over the rights of the individual. Probably why he loved Harvey Dent when he was DA. :oldrazz: That said, Frank Miller's Batman is a hardcore far, far, far-right fringe conservative, if not an outright fascist.
You act as if social responsibility and wanting to help others are concepts that exclusively belong to the left. Such concepts also belong to the right.

What you have to take into account that the more famous portrayals of Batman from Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight, to Frank Miller's crazy God Damn Batman, to Grant Morrison's ubercapitalist, Batman is more often portrayed in a right winged fashion. And also take into account that most of Batman's villains are either apolitical (the Penguin, Black Mask) to the ultra hard core left (Joker, Ra's al Ghul, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Mr. Freeze, and before his transformation Harvey Dent came off as a rational leftie).

And then take into account Batman's actions. You can compare the Wayne family to that of industrialists like Andrew Carnegie in which they wanted to use their wealth to help others. It's not by government actions that are being used to help, but private actions. Wayne uses his wealth to fund charities, scholarships, and to revitalize Gotham City. Instead of state governments funding high speed rail, the Wayne family developed Gotham's rail system in Batman Begins. Instead of government programs like Medicaid, Wayne funds Lesilie Thompkin's free clinics. He wants to provide jobs to the people of Gotham City. He's gathering the wealthy of Gotham to rebuild Gotham City from the earthquake, No Man's Land, and reviving poor areas like Park Row as opposed to just letting the government allowing them to degrade. Things like this are what small government minded libertarians argue in favor of. Don't confuse libertarianism for Randian Objectivism.

And to continue with my arguments of how Batman is a right winger look at how Batman is a huge supporter of the Second Amendment. Sure he doesn't like guns, but that doesn't change the fact that Bruce Wayne owns an incredibly extensive gun collection. And Batman's arsenal includes a lot of lethal goodies that I'm pretty sure aren't street legal.

Or take a look at Batman, Incorporated, which is a private company in which Wayne works with various local governments to fight crime throughout the world by installing a Batman in major metropolitan areas. Batman Incorporated is essentially a private security/military company to benefit others.

And finally, both Bruce Wayne and Batman just aren't fond of the Federal government. When the Luthor Administration came into power, Bruce Wayne had cancelled all contracts Wayne Enterprises and as Batman, he essentially helped Superman overthrow him. And Batman's relationship with the Federal government without Luthor has always been rather poor.

Peter Parker just doesn't strike me as someone who pays attention to politics. He's too into his personal life and too "everyman" for that. But given he's from Queens, he's probably a registered Democrat and as a New Yorker would be disgusted by the Republicans' social platforms (anti-gay, anti-hispanic, anti-Muslim anti-youth, anti-minority).
Once Steve Ditko left the character, Peter Parker became an obvious Democrat. There is no way that the modern Spider-Man is a Republican.

Superman was raised in Kansas with good midwestern values. He's a Republican probably right down to believing marriage should be between one alien and one woman [blackout]:oldrazz:[/blackout].
Nope, Superman is a hardcore leftie now. When he was created Siegel and Schuster essentially created a pseudo socialist champion of the common working man who took down corrupt industrialists and politicians (as opposed to the more elitist and bourgeois Batman who took down more traditional bad guys). And when Grant Morrison took over the direction of the character he restored Superman's leftie roots. The New 52 pretty much established that Pa Kent installed some rather progressive values into Clark.

Daredevil doesn't believe in the death penalty, takes pro bono cases for poor people in his crappy neighborhood and also believes in social justice and responsibility. Bleeding heart liberal.
Daredevil is a registered Democrat. They flat out confirmed that.

Iron Man, as I said, is a moderate Republican. He started out as a neoconservative, but given he quits manufacturing weapons, refuses to give his tech to the US government because he does not believe in the theory of M.A.D. and nuclear deterrence, and goes into manufacturing free cheap renewable energy, he would definitely have drifted left and be crucified by Fox News and CNBC for turning his back on America, capitalism, "freedom," etc. However, given that he trusts in his own personal ability over the government and prefers the private sector, he'd still be on the right. But more like the old school moderates they ran out.
Don't forget his best statement ever: "Ladies and gentlemen, I've privatized world peace!"

And Punisher is a gun-crazed wingnut. :p
Sooooooo true.

BTW this all goes back to Watchmen. Alan Moore characterized most superheroes and rightwing nutjobs. Rorschach, most people's favorite character and the story's narrator, is a parody of the ideal "Objectivist" of Ayn Rand. He is also delusional and a misinformed hypocrite who admires "big tough" leaders like Harry Truman who nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end a war, but dies to condemn snobbish and elitist blue blood, bleeding heart liberal Ozymandias who essentially nukes New York to avoid WWIII in that story. So, the idea of the hero or ubermen being different forms of absolute fascists is an interesting idea to explore.
Well Alan Moore is an anarchist, so he's pretty far out there on the left.
 
Is it safe to say that Obama is the first & last Black President of this Country ? Especially if he ends up being a one term one at that
 
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Is it safe to say that Obama is the first & last Black President of this Country ? Especially if he ends up being a one term one at that

Well according to the NAACP and Morgan Freeman, he isn't the first Black President, he is the first Bi-racial President.....(BTW, this was in response to Obama not going to the NAACP Convention this week....)

But, I certainly would like to think that our country is intelligent enough to not equate the color of his skin with his bad policy and lack of experience...

My main fear, which has ended up being my main gripe is his lack of experience, his skin color has nothing to do with that....
 
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html

Has Obama at 221, while Romney is at 181

That being said when you factor in which way the swing states are leaning(even if it's a slight lead) Obama is winning all but North Carolina and Missouri

The Swing states they have in play are

Colorado (9)
Florida (29)
Iowa (6)
Michigan (16)
Missouri (10)
Nevada (6)
New Hampshire (4)
North Carolina (15)
Ohio (18)
Virginia (13)
Wisconsin (10)

If Obama can win Florida(he is up a small 1.7%) Romney is basically toast, although I am guessing the Obama strategy is to go after the much easier(at least from a Democrat POV) rust belt of Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio(44) then all he needs is 9 electoral votes(I personally think they should go hard after Virginia since the unemployment rate there is 5.6% so it's hard for Romney to push how the economy sucks, Ohio and New Hampshire are 2 other swing states that "the economy sucks argument should fall on to deaf ears since their unemployment rate is even lower then Viriginia)

As for Romney sort of sucks for him going by state that the economy sucks probably is only a winning argument in North Carolina(9.4), Nevada(11.6) and to a much lesser degree Florida(8.6), Michigan(8.5) and Colorado(8.1). Let's say Romney wins all these states plus I'll through in Missouri for the hell of it(since I don't think Obama has much of a chance to win it), Romney doesn't have enough to get over 270(those 6 states put him at 266 and I think he will be hard pressed to win both Michigan and Colorado(more so Michigan))

If I had to guess which swing states aren't really swing states, I would say Michigan and Wisconsin will go Obama, while Missouri and North Carolina will go Romney, which doesn't leave Romney much wiggle room(247-206, with 85 electoral seats in play in 7 states)
 
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I think he can get Florida, North Carolina and Virginia.....but Romney has to win Ohio, or nothing else matters....

BUT, checking these things at this point is null and void.....wait until after the conventions and see who gets the greatest momentum out of their convention and keeps it....this will show the excitement of the parties.

Obama will have a better chance of keeping that momentum than Romney will, so it depends what kind of bump he can get out of it. Romney has the chance of losing the bump almost immediately because his excitement is about "zero" when it comes to his speeches.

Also, depending on how many debates they have, if Romney can do well in those, that will help him. Obama will probably say much the same thing that he has said in the past and I think people are getting tired of the same thing. I mean hell when you even give a campaign speech as your SOTU address....well people have heard it all.
 
I think he can get Florida, North Carolina and Virginia.....but Romney has to win Ohio, or nothing else matters....

I think at the end of the day Romney will win Florida, but I am guessing Obama's team will get him to spend as much as they can to win it. If the Democrats can get the Republicans to outspend them 4 or 5 to 1 and the Democrats lose it's still somewhat a victory that they used Florida to drain that much money out of Romney's campaign.

Using a war analogy Florida to me is what you would call cannon fodder(basically something you know you are going to lose but you use it's downfall to your tactical advantage)
 
I disagree with your assessment. There are swing states and then there are swing states that matter. The three that matter have been the same since 2000, PA, Ohio, and Florida. Whoever wins 2 of the 3 will win the election. Granted, it isn't impossible to win if they lose 2 of the 3, but it becomes an incredibly uphill battle. If Romney wins Ohio and Florida, he wins the presidency. If Obama wins PA and Florida, he wins the presidency. Any other combination, whoever comes out with 2 of the 3 will win the presidency. For the other guy to win they would have to win virtually every other swing state which is very unlikely. Whoever wins 2 of the 3 will pick up the rest of the electoral votes elsewhere. But without 2 of the 3, elsewhere won't matter.

Both Romney and O. will spend a **** load of money in Florida, more than the GDP of entire countries, because those three states will decide the election.

My prediction: IF Romney wins Ohio and Florida, he will win the White House, by an Electoral College vote of 272 to 266 and will ultimately lose the popular vote.
 
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I disagree with your assessment. There are swing states and then there are swing states that matter. The three that matter have been the same since 2000, PA, Ohio, and Florida. Whoever wins 2 of the 3 will win the election. Granted, it isn't impossible to win if they lose 2 of the 3, but it becomes an incredibly uphill battle. If Romney wins Ohio and Florida, he wins the presidency. If Obama wins PA and Florida, he wins the presidency. Any other combination, whoever comes out with 2 of the 3 will win the presidency. For the other guy to win they would have to win virtually every other swing state which is very unlikely. Whoever wins 2 of the 3 will pick up the rest of the electoral votes elsewhere. But without 2 of the 3, elsewhere won't matter.

Both Romney and O. will spend a **** load of money in Florida, more than the GDP of entire countries, because those three states will decide the election.

My prediction: IF Romney wins Ohio and Florida, he will win the White House, by an Electoral College vote of 272 to 266 and will ultimately lose the popular vote.

I am assuming Penn will likely go Democrat, but I do think there is an offhand chance Obama wins without winning Ohio and Florida.

Take is current 221 and add

Colorado (9)
Iowa (6)
Michigan (16)
Nevada (6)
New Hampshire (4)
Virginia (13)
Wisconsin (10)

That = 285(and that's not counting North Carolina which i assume is leaning Republican)

Other then Michigan, he can lose 1 or 2 or those states and still win, ironically he could lose a couple of those(that total up to 16) and end up in a 269-269 tie in many different scenarios. It would be funny if one of those states that split up their electoral votes(Nebraska or Maine) end up deciding who wins when one seat goes to the other side.
 
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Sure, it COULD happen, but it becomes a hell of a hard thing to do. It is like being down by two touchdowns at the two minute warning. Sure, the team that is down COULD win. But 9 out of 10 times, they won't. Both Obama and Romney need two of the three.
 
Sure, it COULD happen, but it becomes a hell of a hard thing to do. It is like being down by two touchdowns at the two minute warning. Sure, the team that is down COULD win. But 9 out of 10 times, they won't. Both Obama and Romney need two of the three.

I can't see Romney winning unless he wins 2 of the 3, as for Obama he probably won't win if he doesn't win 2 of the 3 but their is a a few different ways he can.

As I said above if I am a democrat strategist my easiest path to the White House would be going after the Rust belt(Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania). Lucky for Obama I think 2 of these states(Ohio and Michigan) the Bain attacks is a good strategy(something which I can't say for all swing states). Add to that I think talking about the Auto bailout is a huge positive in both those states(especially when you point out how Romney wanted the Auto industry to fail)
 
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Romney can win if he loses two of the three. If Romney wins Florida and Obama wins Ohio and PA, if Romney takes Virginia, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Iowa and Nevada, he wins the presidency. While certainly a long shot, it can happen.

I dunno about Ohio. On paper, the Bain ads should be working. But I think that Axelrod and co. are overestimating just how much it will ultimately work. Ohio is a weird little state. Considering how badly outsourcing and corporate tax cuts have hurt them, they should be solid blue. They aren't. Ohio doesn't vote with their wallet. They are a weird little state that can often be very irrational. Axelrod is expecting them to be as enraged as the rest of the left is...they aren't.
 
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Romney can win if he loses two of the three. If Romney wins Florida and Obama wins Ohio and PA, if Romney takes Virginia, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Iowa and Nevada, he wins the presidency. While certainly a long shot, it can happen.

By my count that is 260. I should probably add Wisconsin to me is to the Democrats what North Carolina is to the Republicans(ie basically they should win it and it will be hard for the other side to steal it away)

I dunno about Ohio. On paper, the Bain ads should be working. But I think that Axelrod and co. are overestimating just how much it will ultimately work. Ohio is a weird little state. Considering how badly outsourcing and corporate tax cuts have hurt them, they should be solid blue. They aren't. Ohio doesn't vote with their wallet. They are a weird little state that can often be very irrational. Axelrod is expecting them to be as enraged as the rest of the left is...they aren't.

I do think the Bain attacks do work with certain segments of society. I don't see the Bain attacks working in certain states that well(infact they might have a negative effect in some places(Florida for instance is a place I might back off doing them or tone down the attacks)) but Ohio was tailor made to run a campaign like that. Romney is going to be run through the mud in Ohio and it will make what he did to Gingrich in Florida look tame in comparison
 
By my count that is 260. I should probably add Wisconsin to me is to the Democrats what North Carolina is to the Republicans(ie basically they should win it and it will be hard for the other side to steal it away)



I do think the Bain attacks do work with certain segments of society. I don't see the Bain attacks working in certain states that well(infact they might have a negative effect in some places(Florida for instance is a place I might back off doing them or tone down the attacks)) but Ohio was tailor made to run a campaign like that. Romney is going to be run through the mud in Ohio and it will make what he did to Gingrich in Florida look tame in comparison

I think the Bain thing was taken care of by Gingrich, I know that the Obama campaign keeps bringing it up, but IMO it was over with the Gingrich campaign....Newt did Romney a favor getting it out there....

At this point, I think the hard Republican candidate campaign, and the mainstream media has vetted all there is to vet out of Romney...the media did a far better job of vetting him than they did with Obama...

So, at this point I think all there is to throw out there, has been thrown...IMO, we look at late August -- mid-October and whoever has the momentum in mid-October will be the winner.....I think the Bain thing died with Gingrich (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-01-13/gingrich-bain-super-pac/52543872/1)

To me Obama should go with this story http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...Romney-admits-Bain-Capital-didn-t-create-jobs because IMO that is the only thing he can pull from Bain, and even that is shakey...
 
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I think the Bain thing was taken care of by Gingrich, I know that the Obama campaign keeps bringing it up, but IMO it was over with the Gingrich campaign....Newt did Romney a favor getting it out there....

Gingrich did the Bain think in South Carolina, so you can argue it's been played out there. Beyond that you are assuming people watch US politics 24/7. I am guessing their is many people all over the US who have little clue what's going on in the campaigns currently. I guess the question that pops up is if Bain worked in SC, will it work in NC or Virginia? (all that being said in Virginia my method of attack would be look how great the Obama presidency is for you guys, which is the same way I go after Ohio and New Hampshire)

As I said above while Bain attack ads might not work everywhere they are tailor made for what I would call the manufacturing states(Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania)
 
I am assuming Penn will likely go Democrat, but I do think there is an offhand chance Obama wins without winning Ohio and Florida.

Take is current 221 and add

Colorado (9)
Iowa (6)
Michigan (16)
Nevada (6)
New Hampshire (4)
Virginia (13)
Wisconsin (10)

That = 285(and that's not counting North Carolina which i assume is leaning Republican)

Other then Michigan, he can lose 1 or 2 or those states and still win, ironically he could lose a couple of those(that total up to 16) and end up in a 269-269 tie in many different scenarios. It would be funny if one of those states that split up their electoral votes(Nebraska or Maine) end up deciding who wins when one seat goes to the other side.

I don't see Obama winning re-election if he doesn't win Ohio and Florida. If he loses those two states than it's going to be incredibly likely that he will lose Virginia and Iowa as well. And I don't see Obama winning Nevada either. I think they're are putting far too much emphasis on the Latino vote in that state despite the fact that the Latino voting share has been incredibly stagnant and a huge chunk of Nevada's Latino voters can't even vote since they're illegals. Add that into the fact that Nevada has been hit the hardest in unemployment, the housing crisis, and has huge chunks of GOP voters that come out in huge numbers like Mormons (who love Mitt Romney), senior citizens (who don't like Obama), and evangelicals (who hate Obama and vote massively for the GOP).
 
Gingrich did the Bain think in South Carolina, so you can argue it's been played out there. Beyond that you are assuming people watch US politics 24/7. I am guessing their is many people all over the US who have little clue what's going on in the campaigns currently. I guess the question that pops up is if Bain worked in SC, will it work in NC or Virginia? (all that being said in Virginia my method of attack would be look how great the Obama presidency is for you guys, which is the same way I go after Ohio and New Hampshire)

As I said above while Bain attack ads might not work everywhere they are tailor made for what I would call the manufacturing states(Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania)

I think the biggest problems with the Bain attacks are that the Obama campaign is most likely going to overdo them to the point of groaning and many fact checking organizations have called them out for being incredibly misleading.
 
I don't see Obama winning re-election if he doesn't win Ohio and Florida.

I believe you mean Ohio OR Florida to which I do agree for the most part although I do think their is a very slight chance Obama could win without either(especially if he can develop a good state wide campaigns of how good the economy is in Iowa, Virginia and New Hampshire, win those 3 states as well as Wisconsin and Michigan that's 270)

I think the biggest problems with the Bain attacks are that the Obama campaign is most likely going to overdo them to the point of groaning and many fact checking organizations have called them out for being incredibly misleading.

The anti Bain campaigns provide a couple points

1. The main one would be that nothing at Bain leads to Mitt Romney being some job creator specialist. I think Mitt wanted to somehow use his business experience to say he knows how to create jobs, which is not the case. This to me is the main point they have to drive across to the public when they are doing the Bain attacks(because at the end of the day I don't think to many people care how he made his millions if it means he could somehow turn that experience into a positive for the country). Couple this one with his terrible job numbers as Governor it's a great message

2. This is the more cynical message that might get tiring if they push it to much but basically paint Romney as somebody who uses the system and every loophole to his advantage while screwing over people who if he gets in power will help other people such as himself. This is the message you play up in Ohio and Michigan, but you sort of turn down the rhetoric in places like Florida, New Hampshire or Colorado. This is what Gingrich used in South Carolina
 
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I believe you mean Ohio OR Florida to which I do agree for the most part although I do think their is a very slight chance Obama could win without either(especially if he can develop a good state wide campaign of how good the economy is in Iowa, Virginia and New Hampshire)

Romney has to take his 59 point economic plan down to at least 10 points and flood the airways with it....talk about it at every stop, make sure that people understand what he wants to do.....because right now, all he is doing is blocking punches from Obama's campaign, and nothing else.....he is running an excellent rebuttal to the Bain stuff in Ohio right now, he needs to continue to do that as well....he has the money, more money still coming in, he needs to get off his damn speed boat and get back to work.
 
Romney has to take his 59 point economic plan down to at least 10 points and flood the airways with it....talk about it at every stop, make sure that people understand what he wants to do.....because right now, all he is doing is blocking punches from Obama's campaign, and nothing else.....he is running an excellent rebuttal to the Bain stuff in Ohio right now, he needs to continue to do that as well....he has the money, more money still coming in, he needs to get off his damn speed boat and get back to work.

You mean the 59 points like he will somehow one his first day as president bypass congress and allow the keystone pipeline. lol

From the little I seen about Romney's 59 points, it seems like typical Republican rhetoric. Cut Taxes and Regulations and somehow jobs will magically appear. An oh yeah Obama sucks somehow even though he doesn't explain his plans he will do better

At least when Obama came out with a plan that said he would tax millionaires 0.005% on every dollar then turn around and create 1 million jobs you could at least see where exactly the money was coming from

Personally I would love to see him answer the tough questions on Bain(which he never will do). I don't know about you but I am personally annoyed that Bain went into a couple of places, basically drained the company for all it was worth(including pension plans) then left the Tax Payer on the line to pay out those pensions after they filed for bankruptcy. Does he believe that is good business practice? I am not blind that stuff like that happens everyday, but Government should be the ones looking out and stopping stuff like that. it seems in general the Republicans hate welfare unless it's coorporate welfare, then it's perfectly fine.
 
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I believe you mean Ohio OR Florida to which I do agree for the most part although I do think their is a very slight chance Obama could win without either(especially if he can develop a good state wide campaigns of how good the economy is in Iowa, Virginia and New Hampshire, win those 3 states as well as Wisconsin and Michigan that's 270)
No I mean that if he loses Ohio and Florida, there is a 0% chance of Obama winning re-election. It's not even a slight chance, it's not gonna happen. He can lose one or the other, but not both. If he loses Ohio and Florida, that will most likely mean that the national political environment has rejected him and that Virginia, New Hampshire, and Iowa will most likely go against him as well.

The anti Bain campaigns provide a couple points

1. The main one would be that nothing at Bain leads to Mitt Romney being some job creator specialist. I think Mitt wanted to somehow use his business experience to say he knows how to create jobs, which is not the case. This to me is the main point they have to drive across to the public when they are doing the Bain attacks(because at the end of the day I don't think to many people care how he made his millions if it means he could somehow turn that experience into a positive for the country). Couple this one with his terrible job numbers as Governor it's a great message

2. This is the more cynical message that might get tiring if they push it to much but basically paint Romney as somebody who uses the system and every loophole to his advantage while screwing over people who if he gets in power will help other people such as himself. This is the message you play up in Ohio and Michigan, but you sort of turn down the rhetoric in places like Florida, New Hampshire or Colorado. This is what Gingrich used in South Carolina
Except Obama's Bain attacks pose a problem when his own party has come out telling him to tone it down and fact checking organizations such as the Washington Post and FactCheck.org have pretty much called out the Obama campaign for spewing total BS. It may work on liberals who are going to vote Democrat anyways (the same way that Obama being a socialist works on conservatives who are going to vote Republican regardless), but independents are smarter than that.

And so far, the Bain attacks from the Obama camp have not been working.
 
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