A contradiction?

Discussion in 'SHH Community Forum' started by Silverstein, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. Silverstein Registered

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    People cry over Heath Ledger, they look sad, they feel sad. They act as if this is some kind of horrible thing. The same with Chris Benoit, Eddie Gurero, Chris Farley, Nirvana guy, River Phoenix, etc etc...

    It's been maybe two days and Heath is still in the news. It IS a loss that he died. It IS sad...But a mother and four children under 9 just died in a house fire and the news skipped over it as if it was a "cat in a tree" story. How is one death more important than another?

    Why is it that it is okay to milk the death of a celebrity, but when honorable just people that effect people on a more down to earth way, when they die....we just turn that cheek and say "sucks for you, man." For instance, one of our fellow posters had made a comment about possibly losing his family and yet all people seem to truly care about is Heath Ledger.

    Actors, athletes and musicians do effect people and make you feel emotions, but so could a small child from africa or china if you adopted them and gave them a chance. But there are those who sit there eating a cheeseburger crying over a man they never met.

    Is this a double standard? A contradiction? Hypocrisy?

    It's like people stopped dying in the middle east let's have america focus on a guy who isn't even THAT famous. This didn't happen when the guy from Drowning Pool died. I loved that song "Bodies", a lot of people did. Some people bought the CD. It's the theme to Rambo, so obviously people recognize the song..

    At work, at school, on the news....people are saying Heath Ledger as if he's the pope. Yet when he was chosen to play the Joker, I knew people that called him "The guy from that movie with the gay cowboys..."

    What about fathers, mothers, babies, grandparents...you..me? If a poster died..would anyone care?
     
  2. November Rain Single Mother

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    Well there are lives that are actually more important than others in the eyes of each and every one of us.

    If we were to pay our respects to all those who have died with a minute's silence, then we would never ever speak.

    the news ultimately isn't really there to inform us but it's there to make money and anything with regards to a celebrity makes money.

    if you get two big shoot outs but one is a man who kills 28 people and the other is a celebrity who kills 2 people, the celebrity will always get more footage.

    The news is no longer rational.
     
  3. Silverstein Registered

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    But, NR, that alone is sadder than any death.
     
  4. ComicChick I Work Too Much

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    i agree

    that's the horrible truth of the world we live in these days
     
  5. November Rain Single Mother

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    There are so many truelly sad things happening in this world and we are all in pretty much powerless situations to affect them.

    The news in this era has become a form of escapism only highlighting what they think we think may be interesting instead of perhaps what's really going on under the surface.

    We've also become desensitised to certain subjects. Poverty, HIV etc etc,

    I personally don't konw how one would go around changing it all but meh. You do get some news stations that are more rational than others but still.

    I guess it's up to the individual to see what is relevant and perhaps asks for the news to provide more feedback on situations. With the internet, one can easily follow up a story seen for more insight but then again not every story is going to get screen time....

    It's definitely a tricky one.
     
  6. Jerry! Registered

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    Celebrities, actors, whatever, are people that you can easily sort of connect with or admire or be inspired by even if they don't know you. It is in the nature of their work, it is what they do. Not saying their lives are more important, but they reach more people than say a family of 4 who died yesterday in a fire. That is just the harsh truth. It's our own fault. If we really didn't care we wouldn't watch it. And if we wouldn't watch it, it being celeb's dying, suicide, etc, it wouldn't be hogging up all the air time.

    Oh and Benoit was a monster, kind of out of place in your list there.
     
  7. SLVRSR4 Registered

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    Adopting a kid cost money and the emotion I'd feel is grief for paying it. Heath Ledger on the other hand asked for very little money to see him act well in films that I enjoyed.
     
  8. Mike_D202 Green Lantern's roommate

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    I dont think its a matter of whose death is more important than the others. Celebrities are known by everyone, as compared to a family of four that nobody knows except they're family and friends. They connect to people on a different level, because when you watch them in a movie, you connect with the characters they portray and you go through a variety of emotions with them. They entertain us, and they dedicate they're lives to entertaining us. Its always a shock to hear that a celebrity has died.
     
  9. Logan's Runt Runtmuffin

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    You can't expect anyone to feel something for every person who dies anywhere in the world. A human is only capable of feeling emotion for something/someone they've connected with on some level. You can feel for a stranger that you've connected with through observation- a celebrity, a child you've adopted through the mail, etc. But if people became emotionally distraught over every death they heard about they wouldn't have a life to live. As people have pointed out already, celebs get the attention because of the nature of their lives- they're out there to be passively connected to millions. Its the nature of celebrity, and its the nature of media to focus on what the people want. Perhaps what you're disgusted with is celebrity itself. After all, why should one person be celebrated/worshiped more than any other, if all lives are of equal value?

    Its all a matter of numbers- numbers of people who formed an emotional connection to the person who dies. Is it fair that 2,000 people attend a highschooler's funeral who died in a car accident when a lonely old man only has a pastor at his funeral to even recognize that he lived?
     
  10. Matt IKYN Guy Groupie

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    *Begin rant*

    The fact is, people here aren't mourning Heath Ledger. They are mourning what they see as "The Joker." Fanboys just can't distinguish between the two. If Heath Ledger was never cast in the role, do you really think you'd see all of this?

    I mean, go to the Batforums and look at some of the comments being made. "The best actor of his generation." "The best actor to never win an Oscar." "Should get an Oscar for playing the Joker (even though no one has seen him in the role yet outside of a few minutes in a trailer)." These comments aren't logical in the least. He was a good actor, sure, but has he really don't enough to be deemed the best of his generation or the best to never win an Oscar? Hell no. And my point isn't to bash Ledger. My point is to show how little logic is behind this "mourning." These people aren't mourning a person, Chinesefood. They are mourning the character the person played. Therefore, your comments, no matter how true or logical are utterly pointless as well...they don't care. They aren't really "mourning him." Hell, they don't even care about Ledger in the least. "Now I can never meet him or see him play the Joker again." That was one of the comments in the Batforum. The guy leaves behind a 2 year old daughter and all they can think about is themselves and a friggin movie. And that is what this essentially comes down to. Self-pity, not mourning. So your contradiction is moot, as they aren't really mourning Ledger at all.

    *end rant*
     
  11. GuardianofOa Registered

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    This isn't even worth getting into, as it has been going on for two days now.

    It's all going to end the same, no matter what, that's just the way society is. We see someone we all know die and all of a sudden, we're a country united and all crying. And I agree, CFood, when there is a tragedy or whatever, it gets passed over because, well, nobody cares but immediate friends or family.

    And think too, whenever anyone gets kidnapped or raped, usually white girls, it's all over the place, like I care, like I am going to go on some hunt to find this chick. But does anyone ever care when a black girl is missing, or raped? Nope.

    It all gets passed over for bull**** news about who smoked what or who was filmed doing this and who is fat or too skinny. Or, which celeb died. Nobody is going to care ever about anyone else but celebrities that really don't change lives all to often. You may think they are great, but in reality, they're usually a really bad influence. And don't do too much for the world other than lie and get publicity for "being green" or saving some kid in another country....Tax write off...
     
  12. Darthphere Kneel before 'Drox!

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    This topic annoyingly comes up everytime a celebrity dies.
     
  13. SuBe Voluntaryist

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    If you want to talk about the News Media's "responibility" in this. Playing 20 Minutes about Ledger and 1 Minute about something with a little more substance: Remember this, News isn't News, it is filler between commericals that happen to contain bits of information deemed worthy to keep your intrest long enough for you to stick around until the next commercial break. All they are trying to do is keep you in your sit and not change the Channel. Remember with Anna Nicole Smith died? That was a month of Nearly non Stop "news" coverage about who's the baby's daddy.
     
  14. The Evolutionist Registered

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    I don't see a problem with people being sad about an actor dying, because ultimately, anybody who entertains us affects us on a certain level.

    However, when it comes to the Hype itself, Matt has it completely right.
     
  15. CARNAGE-COMETH Registered

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    I Think Therefore I Am

    We mourn for those people that we knew or that have affected us in some positive way.

    I feel sorry for all children and good people that lose their lives and it depresses me. But I can not mourn...I mean truly honestly mourn if I didn't know the soul or was affected by them in a good way.

    I respect the dead no matter what and sometimes more then the living.

    I still mourn the death and celebrate the life of Walter Payton my favorite athlete of all time. That's cuz he was so inspirational and influenced me. He gave me great happiness and was a good soul and that is why I will mourn the same for Heath and celebrate his life.
     
  16. Stotch the sequel!

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    I can't believe some people said that. I mean, to some, they knew Heath before he was cast as Joker. And they knew him even more after he played the Joker. Does that mean they can give a rats ass about heath? Just because he played the joker? I would have thought not, but your comments and quotes weren't too surprising. People even got sad and said, "DAMNIT.....another terry gilliam movie down the toilet >.<".

    I'm going to be completely honest with you, matt. I didn't care much for Heath before he was cast as the Joker. I liked his character in 10 things I hate about you(the duuuck o_O), but never payed much attention because his other movies weren't too interesting. Then he was cast as the Joker, which obviously got my attention. How can it NOT? Then I see him do a good job, and then I go ahead and watch a few of his other movies because I got my chance to see he really is a good actor. And when it was announced that he died, I DID feel sad. Was that bad of me? Was that selfish of me? An actor that I was just getting into, not TOO into, but still pretty interested in, died right at that time. The first thing I said was not "DAMNIT, no more joker!!! noooooooooooo", but I did recognize him as so, because it was his Joker role that made me a small fan. I'm sad about the loss, but i'm not sad over us not having a new Joker or whatever. And thats too bad other people are sad over such things like that.

    You are correct, but that's not everybody in the hype. Again, Heath played the Joker. A good one, from what we can expect. That got us excited, and naturally we became more interested in the actor. When he died, we got sad because we were just getting to know him more(most of us Id think), and others got sad because Joker wont come out in the 3rd movie.
     
  17. November Rain Single Mother

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    HOw can you tell heath played a good joker, you haven't even watched the film...

    lol...
     
  18. Stotch the sequel!

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    The trailer and other peoples comments about his role, I mean. And I said "A good one, from what we can expect".
     
  19. Matt IKYN Guy Groupie

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    I'm not saying EVERYONE. I'm just saying a good majority of posters in the Batforums are being incredibly selfish and not mourning Heath Ledger at all but the character he played. Don't take my word on it. Go read through the thread and see for yourself just how selfish most of those posts of "mourning" really are. Of course there are people like you, Solidus, and StorminNorman who seem to be geniunely upset by the pasing of another human being...but for the most part down in that forum, no one gives a damn about a human being passing. They care about what they see as the personification of a fictional character dying.
     
  20. November Rain Single Mother

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    A trailer and people's comments said topher grace was an awesome Eddie Brock/venom.
     
  21. donk70 "Him"

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    This isn't the 1st time a actor died prematurely and it won't be the last time.

    IMO, people love to grieve and be over dramatic. They want to show people they have emotions. Fine, have emotions for a family member or a friend who passes, but not some actor who wouldn't give 2 ****s about you if you passed away.
     
  22. oakzap425 Registered

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    I don't watch television. so it really doesn't make a difference to me.
     
  23. Stotch the sequel!

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    And I agree with you. I just read "The fact is, people here aren't mourning Heath Ledger." and kinda thought you meant everybody.

    But anyways, commenting on the topic, it goes along with what you said, kinda. People mourn actors more than others because the actors get more publicity, and play characters that some people can relate to and connect with. Hell a character can even change a person's perspective on things and help them at times. And when we hear a family getting killed in a car crash, we can't weep as much simply because we never knew who they are. People around the world knew who Heath was, so when they hear he died, they get sad and (hopefully) move on. But if a family in La Mesa, CA gets killed in a wildfire, the nation won't notice at all since they never heard of them.

    But personally, I see it as an equal loss. A death is a death. And right as im typing this, there are a good dozen people having a heart attack, dying of starvation, or just pulled the trigger on themselves. And an actor's death should NOT be more tragic than a family member or a really close friend dying. But it can still be sad because maybe someone met them in real life and grew feelings for them there, or seen him in a film and was touched very much.

    /In my opinion
     
  24. DeaDheaD XBOXLIVEGT= DeaDheaDSL84

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    But that happens all the time no matter who the person is. Heath was a young, talented actor who couldnt go to sleep. You always hate to see great potential go away. From all accounts Heath was a good person that showed a lot of good acting skill, I think(or at least I hope) people are more effected about losing a "good" person so young, and not "Oh noes wuts about batman 3?!?!" Most of what I've seen has been "good die young" type stuff.
    And they were wrong about Topher, and so could those of us who like what we've seen so far from Heath..
     
  25. Wilhelm-Scream Registered

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    So simply dying buys your respect?
    Hitler is dead, so is John Wayne Gacy.
    Anyone can die at any time, and everyone will die.
    Why should I respect someone just because they did it too?


    Also, I wanted to say, HL's last role was that of a psychopathic murderer.
    Do these people really think the family and survivors really want to see an army of psychopathic clown/murderers clashing with the religious bigots who see the name "Heath Ledger" and just see "HOMOSEX" outside the funeral ?!

    I love Anthony Hopkins as an actor, and my favorite work of his was as Hannibal Lector.

    When he dies, I'm not going to put on an orange jumpsuit and a muzzle and go loiter outside his family's farewell to him.
    Beyond absurd and pathetic.

    [​IMG]
     

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