Is the USA a pseudo-fascist state? (Police constantly abusing people)

[Goshdarn Batman]

I think its about time.....goodbye my friends

Is that Rush Limbaugh? Guess he had to rush to the toilet after eating spoiled limburger

 

[The End]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/24/james-boyd-killed-by-cops_n_5021117.html

A homeless New Mexico man who was illegally camping in the Albuquerque foothills was fatally shot by police.

New helmet camera video released by the Albuquerque Police Department on Friday shows the moment 38-year-old James Boyd turns his back to officers and then gets shot dead. Despite overwhelming criticism to the shooting, the department says its officers were justified, KRQE reported.

Boyd was shot on Sunday, March 16. Police Chief Gorden Eden said officers approached Boyd, who was sleeping, to speak to him about illegally camping in an open space, according to the Albuquerque Journal.

According to authorities, Boyd began arguing with officers for more than three hours before the fatal shooting. Graphic video released by the department shows cops yelling at Boyd to "get on the ground" moments before he's shot.

"Don't change up the agreement, I'm going to try to walk with you," Boyd says in the video. The suspect then picks up his belongings as if ready to leave. As he starts to head down the hill, an officer can be heard saying "Do it," before Boyd is hit with a flash-bang device.

Visibly disoriented, Boyd drops his bags and appears to take out a knife. That's when two officers, Dominque Perez and Keith Sandy, fire multiple rounds into the man.

Boyd can be seen dropping to the ground, where he lays still. Officers yell at him to drop his knife repeatedly. When the suspect doesn't answer, police fire multiple bean-bag rounds at the man, then release a K-9 officer on him.

Blood can be seen splattered on rocks near Boyd's head. The man was taken to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead a day later.

Officer Sandy, who was involved in the shooting, was fired from the New Mexico State Police in 2007 over accusations of fraud. He was allegedly making money doing private security work while also on the force, KRQE reported.

When Sandy joined the APD, the department said he would be a civilian employee and wouldn't have a gun or badge. Sandy continued rising through the ranks, eventually joining the Repeat Offender Project Team.

Boyd, who police said may have been a paranoid schizophrenic, has a long criminal history. In the past, he allegedly attacked people with knives, box cutters, and his hands, and in 2010 broke a female officer's nose, according to KOAT.

During a news conference, Chief Eden said the shooting was justified because Boyd was a "direct threat" to the three gun-wielding officers. Eden reportedly left the press conference before news stations could ask why officers didn't use stun guns instead of firing their weapons.

Grassroots organization ProgressNow, which focuses on advocacy issues on state and local levels, has condemned the shooting.

“I was a police officer for a decade,” says Patrick Davis, now executive director of ProgressNow New Mexico. “The over-militarized approach to law enforcement is having a very real effect on people’s lives here in New Mexico and our leaders who should be taking real action seem to be taking it all in stride.”

Albuquerque’s City Council President Ken Sanchez called the video a cause for concern.

The Department Of Justice is already investigating the department over separate matters related to its use of force, according to KRQE.

ProgressNow reports that the DOJ has been reviewing the department since 2012, when the agency's record of shooting 25 suspects -- 17 of which were fatal -- gained national attention.

Albuquerque officers have shot more people than the NYPD, a department serving a city 16-times larger, since 2010, according to ProgressNow.

Officers Dominque Perez and Keith Sandy have both been placed on paid administrative leave.

Graphic video included in the link.

Why did they throw a flashbang at him, when he was already about to leave? Yeah, he was a schizophrenic, but I don't buy that this was the way this had to end.

I'm pretty sure one of the cops says 'booya' in the video, after they shoot him.

 

[The End]

 

[Hotwire]

In response to the infographic.

Just some stats on this rampant abuse of power by police. In 2010, there were roughly 790,000 police officers in the U.S.. Also, there were 4861 unique reports of misconduct by 6613 officer. That would mean that roughly .8% of the cops in this country have been documented as abusing their power.

I think the reason we "see so much of it" stems from the term, "If it bleeds, it leads." Meaning the more horrifying the story, the more attention it gets. YouTube has become a haven for these sorts of stories. Most often showing only the "victim's" side of the incident. That's not to say that some cops don't abuse their power, just that many people have such a disdain for law enforcement that they will go to great lengths to show them in a negative light.

Bottom line, yes, police abusing their authority is a problem but, when compared to just how many cops are out there, it's not even close to level that some would like us to believe. Even if you took the statistics and multiplied them to account for unreported incidents, you would have to more than quintuple the number of incidents to even hit 5%.

Also, in order to call the US any kind of fascist nation, those police would all have to working under the orders of one person, our President.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_Census
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_police_officers
http://www.policemisconduct.net/2010-npmsrp-police-misconduct-statistical-report/

 

[Teelie]

But... infographic! Who can argue with an infographic full of scary statistics?

 

[Spider-X]

and I want to victimize myself and act like the man is bringing me down, man!

I also want to make hyperbolic statements about how America is on the verge of martial law and act all paranoid about it!

oh well...I guess it's back to talking about how the Democrats are trying to take our guns away...

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

What's this? Logic and rationale? GTFO, f the police, cops are by and large bullies and abusers of power. To deny it is to be blind.

( /sarcasm )

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

No more dead cops!!!

 

[Teelie]

Somehow it seems relevant (found in the Community thread).

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What's this? Logic and rationale? GTFO, f the police, cops are by and large bullies and abusers of power. To deny it is to be blind.

( /sarcasm )

How did you logically ascertain that the majority of cops are in no way bullies?

I'm just curious.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

In response to the infographic.

Yeah it's hard to document cops abusing people.

They tend to act differently when they see people holding a recording device.

and even when they are caught red handed how often are they convicted of wrong doing? Even the Rodney King beating was considered reasonable force.

 

[Hotwire]

How did you logically ascertain that the majority of cops are in no way bullies?

I'm just curious.

I'll tackle that one. Follow along bellow.

Yeah it's hard to document cops abusing people.

They tend to act differently when they see people holding a recording device.

and even when they are caught red handed how often are they convicted of wrong doing? Even the Rodney King beating was considered reasonable force.

And yet, even taking the number of reported incidents and multiplying it by 5, a generous estimate, to account for unreported incidents, you only get 24,305 incidents a year by 33,065 cops. That's still not even 5% of all the police in the country. So, based on that, you can safely assume that over 95% of cops are not abusing their power and are not bullies. To shift it to being the majority are bullies, you would need evidence that over 395,000 cops were abusing their power. That would mean that around 390,000 cops are guilty of unreported misconduct. That's a pretty big number for the citizens of this country to ignore, don't you think?

This thread is a lot like the arguments against voter fraud. By sensationalizing the few incidents that do occur, you can make the problem seem way worse than it actually is.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'll tackle that one. Follow along bellow.

And yet, even taking the number of reported incidents and multiplying it by 5, a generous estimate, to account for unreported incidents, you only get 24,305 incidents a year by 33,065 cops. That's still not even 5% of all the police in the country. So, based on that, you can safely assume that over 95% of cops are not abusing their power and are not bullies. To shift it to being the majority are bullies, you would need evidence that over 395,000 cops were abusing their power. That would mean that around 390,000 cops are guilty of unreported misconduct. That's a pretty big number for the citizens of this country to ignore, don't you think?

It depends on how you define bullying and abuse of power. Is being rude and toying with the pride of the powerless suspect bullying because such slights could easily be ignored by the system. Is exaggerating a police report or racially profiling an abuse of power because those are incredibly hard to prove.

This thread is a lot like the arguments against voter fraud. By sensationalizing the few incidents that do occur, you can make the problem seem way worse than it actually is.

Unlike voter ID laws, some distrust and skepticism of authority figures can be healthy for democracy.

 

[Hotwire]

It depends on how you define bullying and abuse of power. Is being rude and toying with the pride of the powerless suspect bullying because such slights could easily be ignored by the system. Is exaggerating a police report or racially profiling an abuse of power because those are incredibly hard to prove.

Again, you're going to need to come up with some evidence to support your claims. And, you're going to need the evidence to implicate over 390,000 people! I logically ascertained that the majority of cops are not bullies, you have not. I think we're done here.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Again, you're going to need to come up with some evidence to support your claims. And, you're going to need the evidence to implicate over 390,000 people! I logically ascertained that the majority of cops are not bullies, you have not. I think we're done here.

I never claimed that most cops were bullies. My point was that your "evidence" that they absolutely weren't bullies was inconclusive.

But if you say we're done debating it's no sweat of my back.

 

[Hotwire]

I never claimed that most cops were bullies. My point was that your "evidence" that they absolutely weren't bullies was inconclusive.

But if you say we're done debating it's no sweat of my back.

Reread my post with the statistics. I've cited my sources. I also clarified that yes, abuse of power occurs. The statistics just prove it's not as rampant as many claim. So, again, until you can present something to refute the statistics, we're done.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Hotwire needs to drop the mic.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Hotwire needs to drop the mic.

I'm shocked you would say this.

It's not like your biased or anything.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Reread my post with the statistics. I've cited my sources. I also clarified that yes, abuse of power occurs. The statistics just prove it's not as rampant as many claim. So, again, until you can present something to refute the statistics, we're done.

I read your statistics but did you read why those statistics may not apply to all forms of bullying and power abuse???

I pointed it out earlier and you failed to address it:

It depends on how you define bullying and abuse of power. Is being rude and toying with the pride of the powerless suspect bullying because such slights could easily be ignored by the system. Is exaggerating a police report or racially profiling an abuse of power because those are incredibly hard to prove.

But I guess this is the part where you ignore why the statistics may not apply to all forms of bullying and power abuse and you're going to tell me we're done over and over again.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Also two more points:

1) If something like the Rodney King beating was considered a lawful act by the police how many lesser yet legitimate grievances go unaddressed by society.

2) The stop and frisk program had hundreds of thousands of victims who had their constitutional rights trampled often due to racial profiling. Yet only a fraction of those are represented in Hotwire's statistic. This shows that widespread abuse can go on undetected by statistics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...op-and-frisk-and-why-the-courts-shut-it-down/

 

[Hotwire]

I read your statistics but did you read why those statistics may not apply to all forms of bullying and power abuse???

I pointed it out earlier and you failed to address it:



But I guess this is the part where you ignore why the statistics may not apply to all forms of bullying and power abuse and you're going to tell me we're done over and over again.

Follow the third link in my post. The one that leads to policemisconduct.com. It breaks it down by type for you. Then, feel free to multiply those numbers by whatever you feel is needed to cover the unreported incidents. Then compare them back and see if you reach a number that lends any credence to a majority of police being bullies.

Drops the mic.
Just for Nell2ThaIzzay.

 

[Hotwire]

Also two more points:

1) If something like the Rodney King beating was considered a lawful act by the police how many lesser yet legitimate grievances go unaddressed by society.

2) The stop and frisk program had hundreds of thousands of victims who had their constitutional rights trampled often due to racial profiling. Yet only a fraction of those are represented in Hotwire's statistic. This shows that widespread abuse can go on undetected by statistics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...op-and-frisk-and-why-the-courts-shut-it-down/

Okay. I agree that was an unconstitutional program. However, the fact that it was shut down should say something about the pseudo-facist claim. If we were living in such a state, would the courts have killed it? Not your best example.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Follow the third link in my post. The one that leads to policemisconduct.com. It breaks it down by type for you. Then, feel free to multiply those numbers by whatever you feel is needed to cover the unreported incidents. Then compare them back and see if you reach a number that lends any credence to a majority of police being bullies.

Drops the mic.
Just for Nell2ThaIzzay.

Even the study you referred to admitted that misconduct could be greatly underreported by police agencies themselves in the conclusion:

One of the persistent problems the NPMSRP faces is determining whether reporting rates are abnormally low for any given state or agency based on how effective that agency or that state’s laws are at keeping misconduct information hidden from the public. The NPMSRP is still in the process of refining our “Transparency Index” which can hopefully be used to determine if laws or actions meant to hide misconduct information from the public are affecting rates for a given agency or state.

But lets say we multiply the reported incidents by 5 like you suggested earlier. That's according to your estimate 33,065 cops involved in abuse EVERY YEAR. But if you look at those numbers over a ten year period that number increases into the hundreds of thousands even if you accounted for repeat offenders.

Even if this doesn't account for the majority of cops that would be a substantial amount of police involved in abuse. Enough to cause legitimate concern, skepticism and distrust from the public.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Okay. I agree that was an unconstitutional program. However, the fact that it was shut down should say something about the pseudo-facist claim. If we were living in such a state, would the courts have killed it? Not your best example.

While not text book examples of a police state by Eastern standards the stop and frisk program and the martial law during the Boston Bombing show America can go into "police state" territory at any given moment.

Again that should be enough for concern.

 

[Hotwire]

Even the study you referred to admitted that misconduct could be greatly underreported by police agencies themselves in the conclusion:



But lets say we multiply the reported incidents by 5 like you suggested earlier. That's according to your estimate 33,065 cops involved in abuse EVERY YEAR. But if you look at those numbers over a ten year period that number increases into the hundreds of thousands even if you accounted for repeat offenders.

Even if this doesn't account for the majority of cops that would be a substantial amount of police involved in abuse. Enough to cause legitimate concern, skepticism and distrust from the public.

Still less than 4% of the cops in this country causing problems. Should it be ignored, no. Should it be treated like some sort of epidemic, also no.