A contradiction?

[roach]

like I said before if he wasnt cast we'd all be making Broke Back mountain jokes and going on with our lives

 

[Damiean Dark]

its about time someone with some sense posted about HL. I am sad that he died but life goes on. I do agree that people on this site are mourning because he was playing the joker.

I have been saying this since he died i didnt swear or mock his death just my amazment at how overblown it all was and if Heath didnt play Joker 95% of them wouldnt have given a damn.

 

[Damiean Dark]

Ledger is certainly going to be elevated into the status of legend far beyond what his future in acting could have accomplished because of his early death . . . he would likely have never been able to achieve that

Sadly I personally think he will be forgotten quite quickly by the masses people are fickle today, a dead celebrity is old news fast.

 

[roach]

People in the Batman boards have pretty much already given him the Academy award for best actor....

 

[Damiean Dark]

I read very few of the posts in this thread, but I thought I'd toss my two cents into the ring anyway. I like watching Heath Leger movies: I would certainly characterize myself as a fan. Though I have never met him personally, that's essentially a moot point: I invite him into my living room every time I watch one of his movies. I enjoy his company.

Though I don't think that any one human life is any more valuable than any other, and any death is a tragedy, Heath Ledger's death is ultimately much more meaningful *to me* than the death of a random individual picked from the obituary pages.

I "invite" Carmella Bing (look it up) into my living room on a daily basis and enjoy her "company" but if she died i wouldnt go to her funeral in a bikini and miss a whole days pay or my job in the process.

 

[AndThePickles]

*Begin rant*

The fact is, people here aren't mourning Heath Ledger. They are mourning what they see as "The Joker." Fanboys just can't distinguish between the two. If Heath Ledger was never cast in the role, do you really think you'd see all of this?

I mean, go to the Batforums and look at some of the comments being made. "The best actor of his generation." "The best actor to never win an Oscar." "Should get an Oscar for playing the Joker (even though no one has seen him in the role yet outside of a few minutes in a trailer)." These comments aren't logical in the least. He was a good actor, sure, but has he really don't enough to be deemed the best of his generation or the best to never win an Oscar? Hell no. And my point isn't to bash Ledger. My point is to show how little logic is behind this "mourning." These people aren't mourning a person, Chinesefood. They are mourning the character the person played. Therefore, your comments, no matter how true or logical are utterly pointless as well...they don't care. They aren't really "mourning him." Hell, they don't even care about Ledger in the least. "Now I can never meet him or see him play the Joker again." That was one of the comments in the Batforum. The guy leaves behind a 2 year old daughter and all they can think about is themselves and a friggin movie. And that is what this essentially comes down to. Self-pity, not mourning. So your contradiction is moot, as they aren't really mourning Ledger at all.

*end rant*

Some of the comments that I've seen have made me believe that there are many people who should seek professional help

I definitely felt shocked that Ledger died, but not to the extent that I was "sick to my stomach" like many have claimed. He was only 28, and I feel awful that his daughter will grow up without her daddy. And, I admit to loving some of his movie roles that others dislike. However, I didn't know the man...for all I know he could be an ******* in real life.

 

[Carcharodon]

I was really, really shocked to hear the news as well. It's just not something you expected to see happen, to be honest. While it's sad, I agree with everybody saying that these people are mourning the Joker (at least, for the most part).

You didn't know the man. You knew the celebrity. Two completely different things/people. The extent of fanboy mourning is really quite shallow, when you really think about it.

 

[Mike_D202]

t: t: They just wont admit it to themselves they liked him only because of TDK. and all this talk of greatest actor is all COMPLETELY overblown he was talented but hardly amazing Brokeback is only famous for its controversial content and some of these "fans" havent even seen the film! its crazy.

I dont think many people around here knew how dedicated he was to his craft until they kept updated on how he was taking the Joker role. The guy lost sleep over it because he was trying so hard to do something different and Heath knew he would have some expectations to live up to (the guy even kept a diary to keep in the mentality of the joker day and night). A lot of people who hated Heath became fans throughout the production of "The Dark Knight" simply for that fact and developed a new found respect for him.

For you and some others to blast the fanbase for mourning somebody who tried his very best to portray one of the most iconic comic book villains in history (this IS a superhero message board) is shallow in itself.

 

[roach]

I dont think many people around here knew how dedicated he was to his craft until they kept updated on how he was taking the Joker role. The guy lost sleep over it because he was trying so hard to do something different and Heath knew he would have some expectations to live up to (the guy even kept a diary to keep in the mentality of the joker day and night). A lot of people who hated Heath became fans throughout the production of "The Dark Knight" simply for that fact and developed a new found respect for him.

For you and some others to blast the fanbase for mourning somebody who tried his very best to portray one of the most iconic comic book villains in history (this IS a superhero message board) is shallow in itself.

that is a very selfish attitude and you proved my point. Basicly we only care that he died because he was playing Joker. A Human being died, a little girl lost her father, family members lost their loved one yet all the crazies on this website can think about is how he was trying to give us the best Joker ever.

 

[Mike_D202]

that is a very selfish attitude and you proved my point. Basicly we only care that he died because he was playing Joker. A Human being died, a little girl lost her father, family members lost their loved one yet all the crazies on this website can think about is how he was trying to give us the best Joker ever.

You should re-read my post (sentence-for-sentence, not taking one thing and using it in a differenct context). They were making a generalization of the fanbase around here that the only reason why people are mourning the loss is because he was the joker. I made the point that its half true, being that most people around here didnt recognize his talent until they realized how much effort was put into the joker role.

 

[roach]

we werent making a generalization...people should be allowed to mourn or feel sad...however when you are putting your job in jeapordy because you want to wear Joker makeup to work or go to the funeral like Joker...who are you mourning?? Heath Ledger the actor or Heath Ledger cast as Joker???
Had He died right after Broke back mountain we wouldnt still be discussing this, people wouldnt be sick to their stomachs, people wouldnt be building memorials to gay cowboys.

 

[Mike_D202]

we werent making a generalization...people should be allowed to mourn or feel sad...however when you are putting your job in jeapordy because you want to wear Joker makeup to work or go to the funeral like Joker...who are you mourning?? Heath Ledger the actor or Heath Ledger cast as Joker???
Had He died right after Broke back mountain we wouldnt still be discussing this, people wouldnt be sick to their stomachs, people wouldnt be building memorials to gay cowboys.

Well I will agree that people dressng up like the joker and going to work is extreme and over-zealous. But it seems that people around here have a probelm with others being sad that he passed on because he was mostly recognized as the Joker around here and "nothing else". I think thats the price you pay to be a celebrity/actor. All "the joker" role has done so far was build his fanbase even more by doing a comic book movie, more people recognized his talents and made most people watch his earlier movies. Your acting like people dont even care except that we have no more joker now (which is not the case with me or most of the other batman fans).

I mourned Chris Farley's passing and I followed his career since his SNL days. I didnt say "OMG NO MORE BEVERLY HILLS NINJA!". Just becasue I didnt hang with the guy personally doesnt mean that it doesnt effect me.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I'm just going to copy and paste what I said on TDK board -

It pisses me off, the people that say "Oh, you wouldn't care as much if he wasn't the Joker". Well, duh! You know what I mean..it's not anywhere near as callous and selfish as they make it sound, but obviously there's an element of truth to it.

Had he not been the Joker, it's true that most of us probably wouldn't have formulated this attachment to him, that's just common sense. That's why you don't mourn the death of every single person in the world every day of your life, because you don't have a connection to most of them. Joker was our connection to Heath. And for most of us, it opened doors to other things, like his other stellar performances. But for whatever reason, he's been a big part of our lives for over a year now. That doesn't make it insincere. Example - say your teacher dies tragically. Had you not taken his class, you'd have never gotten to know him, and yes..his death would've meant relatively little to you. But because of that connection, the fact that you're in his class, that death of that person who would've otherwise been a stranger now has an effect on you.

People like to pretend that you should care equally about every life (and death) of every person on the earth. The fact is, that's impossible. You care about the people who are, for whatever reason, close to you in some capacity. And given our affection for film, comics, and the Joker, Heath was one of those people.

So basically, we have two options - mourn everyone equally or mourn no one? Anything else is insincere, or a contradiction, right?

I've never heard a bigger crock.

When you attend your neighbor's father's funeral and feel as much grief as you do at your own father's funeral, then we'll talk.

Everyone likes to make assumptions. They assume that because you're taking Heath Ledger's death hard, that you aren't also taking the deaths of 1000s of American soldiers hard. Fact is, we're on a ******* comic book site, who the hell should we be talking about? I spend enough of the rest of my time *****ing about the b.s. war that we're embroiled in; when I'm on SUPERHEROHYPE, I'm going to concentrate on things involving comic book films, and right now, that's Heath's death. It kills me when people with 60,000+ posts on a comic book messageboard like to talk about people putting their lives in perspective. Obviously, we all have a lot invested in these stupid little funny books, so I don't think anyone's in a position to judge anyone.

 

[Abaddon]

The problem is that some people come off overzealous in their grief, when it's clear they have a pretty shallow appreciation of the man. The Joker was one role of over a dozen. And the movie hasn't even come out yet, so we can't really judge his performance.

 

[Mr. Socko]

we werent making a generalization...people should be allowed to mourn or feel sad...however when you are putting your job in jeapordy because you want to wear Joker makeup to work or go to the funeral like Joker...who are you mourning?? Heath Ledger the actor or Heath Ledger cast as Joker???
Had He died right after Broke back mountain we wouldnt still be discussing this, people wouldnt be sick to their stomachs, people wouldnt be building memorials to gay cowboys.

Had Heath Ledger not played the Joker he would have been missed just as much to the general audience, The Batman boards just wouldn't be flooded with "Ledger passes away" and "Will Joker be in Batman 3" topics. The tv guide channel just devoted a 30 minute special to Heath Ledger, discussing him as a person and all of his film roles. Less than 5 minutes was spent on The Dark Knight.

And I agree those saying they want to dress up as the Joker and go to the man's funeral are just being ridiculous. But I have no idea what you mean by "people wouldn't be building memorials to gay cowboys" Roach. Earlier this week a memorial area was open in New York where people layed flowers and cards. This memorial was put together by Heath's friends and family, hundreds visited. Him being the Joker had absolutely nothing to do with that, if he had not been the Joker his family would have done the same thing, hundreds still would have visited. I'm not sure where you are going with that comment.

 

[AndThePickles]

The problem is that some people come off overzealous in their grief, when it's clear they have a pretty shallow appreciation of the man. The Joker was one role of over a dozen. And the movie hasn't even come out yet, so we can't really judge his performance.

Agreed. Getting physically ill over a man that just came to their attention through one role? Pretty ridiculous.

 

[CrypticOne]

People cry over Heath Ledger, they look sad, they feel sad. They act as if this is some kind of horrible thing. The same with Chris Benoit, Eddie Gurero, Chris Farley, Nirvana guy, River Phoenix, etc etc...

It's been maybe two days and Heath is still in the news. It IS a loss that he died. It IS sad...But a mother and four children under 9 just died in a house fire and the news skipped over it as if it was a "cat in a tree" story. How is one death more important than another?

Why is it that it is okay to milk the death of a celebrity, but when honorable just people that effect people on a more down to earth way, when they die....we just turn that cheek and say "sucks for you, man." For instance, one of our fellow posters had made a comment about possibly losing his family and yet all people seem to truly care about is Heath Ledger.

Actors, athletes and musicians do effect people and make you feel emotions, but so could a small child from africa or china if you adopted them and gave them a chance. But there are those who sit there eating a cheeseburger crying over a man they never met.

Is this a double standard? A contradiction? Hypocrisy?

It's like people stopped dying in the middle east let's have america focus on a guy who isn't even THAT famous. This didn't happen when the guy from Drowning Pool died. I loved that song "Bodies", a lot of people did. Some people bought the CD. It's the theme to Rambo, so obviously people recognize the song..

At work, at school, on the news....people are saying Heath Ledger as if he's the pope. Yet when he was chosen to play the Joker, I knew people that called him "The guy from that movie with the gay cowboys..."

What about fathers, mothers, babies, grandparents...you..me? If a poster died..would anyone care?

Hey man, that's the world for you. Nice post.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

It's been maybe two days and Heath is still in the news. It IS a loss that he died. It IS sad...But a mother and four children under 9 just died in a house fire and the news skipped over it as if it was a "cat in a tree" story. How is one death more important than another?

Why is it that it is okay to milk the death of a celebrity, but when honorable just people that effect people on a more down to earth way, when they die....we just turn that cheek and say "sucks for you, man." For instance, one of our fellow posters had made a comment about possibly losing his family and yet all people seem to truly care about is Heath Ledger.

At work, at school, on the news....people are saying Heath Ledger as if he's the pope. Yet when he was chosen to play the Joker, I knew people that called him "The guy from that movie with the gay cowboys..."

What about fathers, mothers, babies, grandparents...you..me? If a poster died..would anyone care?

That's how it is. Some people are more important others,in the view of the public eye. Anyone here can die,people would think for a moment then move on with their lives. While someone who has status could be mourned...then people would eventually move in,it's how long after the person is dead..and people still talk..that is what's shocking.

 

[bullets]

I was scrolling this thread and read something about fans going to his funeral dressed as the joker?!?!! My head hurts now.

 

[roach]

no one is saying that you cant mourn Heath. What most of the posters on this thread take issue with is the insane lengths most of the people are going to. Dressing as Joker at the funeral, putting your job in jeopardy to wear Joker make up at work in some sort of tribute, becoming physically sick....these are extremes.
I am sad that Heath died. He was a talented young man but to do any of those things is not the proper way is crazy.

 

[Dorian Gray]

I guess when people become household names it tends to hit some people who are ACTUAL FANS very hard when he/she dies.....I said this about Owen Hart after he died to someone. Back when WWF/WWE was something to stomach they were like a part of your family in away.

I don't mourn Heath's death...but I do find it a shame when anyone(who doesn't deserve it) has to die young.

Still, I think he could have been saved if it wasn't for the massage therpist calling one of The Olsen Twins 4 or 5 times within that 45 minute/1 Hour time period after he was discovered unresponsive.

 

[The Squirrel]

People cry over Heath Ledger, they look sad, they feel sad. They act as if this is some kind of horrible thing. The same with Chris Benoit, Eddie Gurero, Chris Farley, Nirvana guy, River Phoenix, etc etc...

It's been maybe two days and Heath is still in the news. It IS a loss that he died. It IS sad...But a mother and four children under 9 just died in a house fire and the news skipped over it as if it was a "cat in a tree" story. How is one death more important than another?

Why is it that it is okay to milk the death of a celebrity, but when honorable just people that effect people on a more down to earth way, when they die....we just turn that cheek and say "sucks for you, man." For instance, one of our fellow posters had made a comment about possibly losing his family and yet all people seem to truly care about is Heath Ledger.

Actors, athletes and musicians do effect people and make you feel emotions, but so could a small child from africa or china if you adopted them and gave them a chance. But there are those who sit there eating a cheeseburger crying over a man they never met.

Is this a double standard? A contradiction? Hypocrisy?

It's like people stopped dying in the middle east let's have america focus on a guy who isn't even THAT famous. This didn't happen when the guy from Drowning Pool died. I loved that song "Bodies", a lot of people did. Some people bought the CD. It's the theme to Rambo, so obviously people recognize the song..

At work, at school, on the news....people are saying Heath Ledger as if he's the pope. Yet when he was chosen to play the Joker, I knew people that called him "The guy from that movie with the gay cowboys..."

What about fathers, mothers, babies, grandparents...you..me? If a poster died..would anyone care?

I'm getting sick of it. I can only watch a person's body bag being stuffed into a car so many times.

And I really didn't want to see it in the first place.

 

[Silverstein]

Did his funeral happen yet or what?

 

[chaseter]

People cry over Heath Ledger, they look sad, they feel sad. They act as if this is some kind of horrible thing. The same with Chris Benoit, Eddie Gurero, Chris Farley, Nirvana guy, River Phoenix, etc etc...

It's been maybe two days and Heath is still in the news. It IS a loss that he died. It IS sad...But a mother and four children under 9 just died in a house fire and the news skipped over it as if it was a "cat in a tree" story. How is one death more important than another?

Why is it that it is okay to milk the death of a celebrity, but when honorable just people that effect people on a more down to earth way, when they die....we just turn that cheek and say "sucks for you, man." For instance, one of our fellow posters had made a comment about possibly losing his family and yet all people seem to truly care about is Heath Ledger.

Actors, athletes and musicians do effect people and make you feel emotions, but so could a small child from africa or china if you adopted them and gave them a chance. But there are those who sit there eating a cheeseburger crying over a man they never met.

Is this a double standard? A contradiction? Hypocrisy?

It's like people stopped dying in the middle east let's have america focus on a guy who isn't even THAT famous. This didn't happen when the guy from Drowning Pool died. I loved that song "Bodies", a lot of people did. Some people bought the CD. It's the theme to Rambo, so obviously people recognize the song..

At work, at school, on the news....people are saying Heath Ledger as if he's the pope. Yet when he was chosen to play the Joker, I knew people that called him "The guy from that movie with the gay cowboys..."

What about fathers, mothers, babies, grandparents...you..me? If a poster died..would anyone care?

Heath was famous, influential, and a great actor. I am sure he changed a lot of people's lives and was heralded with Brokeback Mt. from the gay community. I think your just mad that when you die you won't get any press

Nobody cares that a mother of 9 died b/c she had no influence over someone half a world away. Heath was a tragic death. People like Anna Nicole that get press for a month is idiotic...people who bring on their own demise at their own will. Sure it's nothing compared to the thousands of people that die everyday but in the end it comes down to selling air time and papers...which is kind of sad.