The Dark Knight AICN: Costume change happens ON camera?

[The Only Woj]

my opinion, you shouldn't have lenses because, unlike the comics or cartoon, they can't change shape. you can't squint or open them wide. contacts ... well, you have no idea where he's looking. Bale, before he exits the train, kinda did a roll back of the eyes, and that was cool. but once you get rid of the pupils or completely mask the eyes, then you're taking away another means of expression. hey, look at Spider-Man. how often is Raimi getting his mask damaged so that you can see at least half of his face or one of his eyes?

 

[Darkest Knight]

Exactly, Woj. There is a reason, it doesn't work long term on screen. I guarantee you, come the biggest battle in SM 3, his mask gets torn again and you get to see his expressions as he battles.

 

[Crooklyn]

my opinion, you shouldn't have lenses because, unlike the comics or cartoon, they can't change shape. you can't squint or open them wide. contacts ... well, you have no idea where he's looking.

...haha. Unless you have scenes of him standing still and rolling his eyes everywhere, that point is kinda moot. If we bring up conversations, well, the fact that his face would be looking straight at the person indicates where he's looking. It's a silly reason not to have contacts, lol.

but once you get rid of the pupils or completely mask the eyes, then you're taking away another means of expression. hey, look at Spider-Man. how often is Raimi getting his mask damaged so that you can see at least half of his face or one of his eyes?

And what's revealed when his mask is torn? His eyes, brows, and mouth. You do not have that luxury with Bats under a sculpted mask. I'm telling you, the brows are everything.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

i wonder if it'd work to do without the lenses and simply make the eye holes smaller? I don't suppose anyone ever manipped that?

Like the cowl that Alfred shattered with the bat in BB? I did think of that, but I bet it'd be very uncomfortable to wear, and more difficult to see out of.

It looks terrible in a few shots, but on the other hand makes him look totally cool looking in a vast majority of the shots.

Amen. Actually I didn't think the neck ever looked bad. The cowl looks odd from a couple of angles, but in the film itself those angles were avoided, and the neck itself always looked great to me.

As for the lenses:

Make them retractable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could live with that - best of both worlds type situation.

Imagine that without the pupils, and you still get the same exact image. The eye thing is nothing but a ruse imo. It's the "brows" and stoic face that really make it look like Bats is pissed.

Yes it is, but Batman is capable of more emotions than "pissed." Not to bring this up but in BF, when he smiles... ugh, I know... the pissed-off brows do absolutely nothing to detract from the cheesiness of that grin. His eyes are smiling, his mouth is spread from ear to ear... uggh... anyway, the brows do help make him looked pissed-off, but it's what his eyes and mouth are doing that add to it.

Batman is one of those rare instances where the opposite works though. As I said before, Bats is usually seen as this emotionless figure. Lenses/contacts works just as well in showing the scary side imo, while also making it difficult for the viewer to really know what's going on inside this character's head (debatable in whether this is good or bad).

Batman is far from emotionless.

If Bale's half the actor everyone knows he is, blocking out his eyes will do absolutely nothing to his performance.

That's crap. Eyes do matter, and they matter a great deal. Even in TAS, Batman's eyes are immensely expressive. How many shots do they do a closeup on his face and you watch his eyes narrow in anger, or widen in shock? The same thing happens a lot in the comics. Neal Adams, Gene Colan, Don Newton, Brian Bolland, Jim Aparo, and Norm Breyfogle are all examples of artists who change the shape of Batman's eyes to show emotion.

James Marsden had no problem emoting without his eyes in 3 X-Men films. Is Marsden any better an actor than Bale?

No, but Jimmy Marsden, like LeVar Burton in TNG, had the entire rest of his face uncovered, including his forehead, which to me matters a great deal. If your eyes are covered but your forehead is exposed, it helps convey some things because movement of your forehead is integral to registering anger or surprise, for instance. Batman's forehead is perpetually furrowed on that cowl, and he's not going to have a cowl with lenses but no forehead, so we better go forehead but no lenses. It's the only option that makes sense. Although I know your response to this is going to have a lot of fun with that.

As others have pointed out...the "intensity of the eyes" are a small, small part of emoting. The entire face is often involved, as is subtle body language and vocal inflections.

Those are all important, but Batman doesn't have his entire face, because most of his face is covered by a rigid cowl. He's got his jaw, and his eyes, if they're not hidden. And I think with most of his face hidden, he can't afford to cover his eyes, or it will just be too much hidden face.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

...haha. Unless you have scenes of him standing still and rolling his eyes everywhere, that point is kinda moot. If we bring up conversations, well, the fact that his face would be looking straight at the person indicates where he's looking. It's a silly reason not to have contacts, lol.

Yes and no. When a person across the room is wearing sunglasses, can you tell when they're looking directly at you, or someplace over your shoulder? No, you can't. It's hard enough without the sunglasses sometimes to tell that. With them on there's no way in hell. Same thing with white contacts.

And what's revealed when his mask is torn? His eyes, brows, and mouth. You do not have that luxury with Bats under a sculpted mask. I'm telling you, the brows are everything.

And yet, Batman's brows don't move, which is the point. His brows don't move because it's a rigid cowl, and if his eyes were covered, they couldn't move either. All you'd have is his mouth. And since, as you so aptly pointed out, you can't tear Batman's cowl... how do you convey emotion in the climactic battle? Ditch the lenses.

 

[Crooklyn]

Yes and no. When a person across the room is wearing sunglasses, can you tell when they're looking directly at you, or someplace over your shoulder? No, you can't. It's hard enough without the sunglasses sometimes to tell that. With them on there's no way in hell. Same thing with white contacts.

Well it's a great thing Nolan isn't shooting in first-person. Camera angles can fix this just fine.

And yet, Batman's brows don't move, which is the point. His brows don't move because it's a rigid cowl, and if his eyes were covered, they couldn't move either. All you'd have is his mouth. And since, as you so aptly pointed out, you can't tear Batman's cowl... how do you convey emotion in the climactic battle? Ditch the lenses.

If we're talking about DD-type lenses, then you'd have a point.

However, I'm in favor of contacts. And my point was, whether you use contacts or not, you still have the same problem of a rigid cowl. There is no difference between the 2 besides seeing some pupils.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Well it's a great thing Nolan isn't shooting in first-person. Camera angles can fix this just fine.

Maybe. Color me unconvinced.

If we're talking about DD-type lenses, then you'd have a point.

Yes indeed.

However, I'm in favor of contacts. And my point was, whether you use contacts or not, you still have the same problem of a rigid cowl. There is no difference between the 2 besides seeing some pupils.

It's true. I will say that contacts would be a better solution than lenses, though it reeks a little of Marilyn Manson, IMO. It would maintain something more like the classic comic look, that's for sure.

I just don't want Batman in the middle of combat, "Aw, DAMN! Joker, Joker, hold on, dawg... I lost a contact."

"Oh. Oh dear. Well wait, which way you were facing, old man? What? Look, it's damp out here, dirty... you don't want to put that back in. Go back to the cave, get a fresh one, I'll wait."

"Yeah but it's miles from here, and by the time I get home my butler will have supper ready, and... and I'm about to beat Halo 3. Seriously, I don't have that kind of time."

"Well, I suppose we can continue this another time. I'll pencil you in for Thursday."

"Thursday's no good for me, I've got the Riddler at midnight and Selina at dawn. Tuesday?"

"Tuesday? No good, I'm getting my hair done."

"Friday?"

"I can move some things."

Wow, I totally got carried away.

 

[Crooklyn]

Maybe. Color me unconvinced.

Now you're just being cynical.

It's true. I will say that contacts would be a better solution than lenses, though it reeks a little of Marilyn Manson, IMO.

Like that black make-up Bruce likes to put on before wearing the cowl?

I just don't want Batman in the middle of combat, "Aw, DAMN! Joker, Joker, hold on, dawg... I lost a contact."

"Oh. Oh dear. Well wait, which way you were facing, old man? What? Look, it's damp out here, dirty... you don't want to put that back in. Go back to the cave, get a fresh one, I'll wait."

"Yeah but it's miles from here, and by the time I get home my butler will have supper ready, and... and I'm about to beat Halo 3. Seriously, I don't have that kind of time."

"Well, I suppose we can continue this another time. I'll pencil you in for Thursday."

"Thursday's no good for me, I've got the Riddler at midnight and Selina at dawn. Tuesday?"

"Tuesday? No good, I'm getting my hair done."

"Friday?"

"I can move some things."

Wow, I totally got carried away.

Amusing. But pointless.

If we're going to such lengths as to nitpick the consequences of utilizing certain properties of Batman's aesthetics, then ultimately you will end up negating pretty much everything that makes the character.

So I say it's best to withhold a certain suspension of disbelief regarding these matters.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Now you're just being cynical.

I'm not given to cynicism, but perhaps.

Like that black make-up Bruce likes to put on before wearing the cowl?

LOL. That reeks more of Peter Criss, really, but the original lineup of KISS is still the best, so who can complain? *throws the goat*

Amusing. But pointless.

LOL!!! Of course.

If we're going to such lengths as to nitpick the consequences of utilizing certain properties of Batman's aesthetics, then ultimately you will end up negating pretty much everything that makes the character.

So I say it's best to withhold a certain suspension of disbelief regarding these matters.

I agree, don't misunderstand. Sometimes my sense of humor just goes a little haywire. It's late and I was having fun.

 

[Darkest Knight]

Opaque lenses could work. But Keyser followed up on my points, and extened them even further. He gets the deal. I am just seriously against lenses.

 

[Darkest Knight]

Don't worry Keyser, that joint gave me a laugh.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Here's the thing about the suit change, there is no way they can jack it up like they did in Batman and Robin, and at the end of Forever. So it's already a postive.
Here's looking at Blue Kid!

You know they won't go blue and grey, right? At most you'll get black and grey, which is what the blue in the comics is really supposed to represent anyway. And that damn yellow oval? Fuggeddabouddit.

 

[TheBat812]

The old one will probably be destroyed by the joker, which is the result of a plot point. They probably just didn't say it right. That's what I would guess., I doubt people will be able to pinpoint all of batman's gadgets to Waynetech, unless he's a ****ty batman and is constantly caught on tape...

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Don't worry Keyser, that joint gave me a laugh.

One laugh makes it all worthwhile.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

*sniff* A man can dream can't he....a man can dream......

Well, yeah. A man can always dream.

 

[dude stannis]

R.I.P. Begins suit. A victim of merchandising.

As much as I'd rather they kept the Begins suit, I have complete faith in the crew to deliver the goods again. So, short ears or long ears, yellow oval or no oval, I'm positive the new suit will look great.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

When I first heard that Bats would be changing his suit mid-movie in a "plot point", my mind immediately raced back to the old quote by Nolan about how the title The Dark Knight was very important to the plot.

My first thought was of an Azrael-style "metal" suit of armor. Would Nolan really throw us that big of a curveball? Doubtful, I guess. I even immediately thought of the massive uproar that it would cause if it were true, heh.

It'd be ironic, actually. Most fans are clamoring for a thinner, sleeker suit, imagine if Nolan gave us the exact opposite?

But if the second report is to be believe, that it will be sleeker, then I guess my theory is out the window.

It's all very intriguing, though. If only we'd get word on Joker's.

 

[what_19]

hey i have been reading stuff on here for about 3 years..finally decided to be a member..and i have to say the people on this batman sequel are by far the funniest and most chill (open minded and willing to let others have their point of view in contrast to the supes board haha...[ do not bring up superman returns...a war will start]

anyway...i think a costume change would be good...i personally like the 89 version for the best onscreen adaptation..but i do understand that realistically speaking...it is virtually impossible to actually fight in that material...but as far as it LOOKS i mean c;mon..better than BB

dont cover the eyes or have an eye shield...i think seeing the intensity of "the batman" does a lot more fear than not seeing the eyes...

get rid of that cloth cape..yeah its more realistic that a rubber one..but compared to the rest of the costume looked a little out of sorts...

and also..if you really wanna keep it realistic...wouldnt the hundreds of people who worked on or DESIGNED the batmobile have noticed it on the 10 o'clock news running over police cars and jumping buildings..and be like "dude! i WORKED on that for WAYNE industries!!!""" so yes why realism is a very important part of batman...if you take it too seriously and forget that this is INDEED a comic book..it loses the fun

anyways..glad to be a member

 

[dark_b]

still have faith in nolan. but i am scared. i didnt have a problem with teh BB suit.

 

[itsthebatman]

hey i have been reading stuff on here for about 3 years..finally decided to be a member..and i have to say the people on this batman sequel are by far the funniest and most chill (open minded and willing to let others have their point of view in contrast to the supes board haha...[ do not bring up superman returns...a war will start]

anyway...i think a costume change would be good...i personally like the 89 version for the best onscreen adaptation..but i do understand that realistically speaking...it is virtually impossible to actually fight in that material...but as far as it LOOKS i mean c;mon..better than BB

dont cover the eyes or have an eye shield...i think seeing the intensity of "the batman" does a lot more fear than not seeing the eyes...

get rid of that cloth cape..yeah its more realistic that a rubber one..but compared to the rest of the costume looked a little out of sorts...

and also..if you really wanna keep it realistic...wouldnt the hundreds of people who worked on or DESIGNED the batmobile have noticed it on the 10 o'clock news running over police cars and jumping buildings..and be like "dude! i WORKED on that for WAYNE industries!!!""" so yes why realism is a very important part of batman...if you take it too seriously and forget that this is INDEED a comic book..it loses the fun

anyways..glad to be a member

Good to have you on board
I know what you're saying about the Tumbler, but the view of it on the news may not have been the clearest, so maybe it wouldn't be too recognisable. Certainly I don't think anyone would recognise the suit, given it was repainted and and had the symbol on it as well.
I loved the cloth cape. i seem to remember Nolan (or Goyer) saying they wanted the cloth for the shots of the cape blowing in the wind (in the narrows), which is VERY comic-book, very iconic.
Exactly - lets not take it all too seriously.

 

[Steelsheen]

i'm actually more interested in the hows and whys Batman changes the suit in the story. the BB suit has its flaws but overall i'm pretty happy with it, i'd like to see how the new suit looks first before i do any cartwheels.

 

[Captain Villa]

Someone twigs that all Bats' stuff comes from WayneTech?

Then I'd be looking at changing the Tumbler before the suit , in that case.

 

[_achilles_]

Then I'd be looking at changing the Tumbler before the suit , in that case.

he already did...he painted it black

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Why would anyone twig its from wayne tech?


as fox says "he told me exactly what this place is a dead end"

apart from Fox,nobody even goes into applied sciences.

 

[sasquatchs]

100s of people would have worked on the Tumbler though. Hopefully the film addresses the press interest in Batman, with blurry shots of the Tumbler, and possibly Bats himself