Alex Ross calls for new era of Superhero Costumes

[TheComicbookKid]

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=22216

The painter has had his forays into the Hollywood world before, crafting things like the official poster for the Academy Awards and providing some early, unused character designs for the 2003 "Spider-Man" film, but overall Ross feels that comic book movie costuming could use a facelift to "get past the era of influence from the 1989 Tim Burton 'Batman' movie."
"I want to put my hands in on guiding people away from certain things," he said. "If I could have one effect on all this, it would be that there would be as little rubber used as possible on a human being. I don't want to see another superhero costume I've loved turned into a giant rubber mess...The way I've worked for several years has been to look at how costumes look on a person in one style of another, and also I've had a catalogue of costume ideas in mind knowing that there's no absolutely original thing I can come up with. But I know where to stay away from other people's creative territory, so you either use some stuff as a guide or know how to completely do the opposite.
In citing superheroes that have worked on film, Ross said, "If you're going to take a costume that is almost a protective accoutrement and bring that to film, then go all the way like they did with Iron Man where it really is a shell. I'm sick of having rubber pieces underneath cloth as if somehow they are representing the physicality of the person underneath. I'd rather see a human body painted a color, where you get a guy who's in shape and put the spotlight on that person. The human body in great, muscular shape is an amazing thing to study, and I think that could have a powerful effect if that's not filtered through layers and layers of crap giving an imitation of body form.
"Arguably, in the new 'Watchmen' movie, Rorschach is a much more exciting character in his rough-hewn texture versus the rubber costume of Night Owl. I would say that's the juxtaposition I would look more towards."
And even though his own approach to painting involves some careful and considered staging to bring characters to life, when it comes to costuming a character for State Street, Ross said simplicity is key. "We're in an era of over-thinking things. That's what it comes down to. Nobody argues how well Superman was pulled off by [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]Christopher [COLOR=blue! important]Reeve[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR], yet when it was time to make the new movie, they over-thought the way to do the outfit. They couldn't help themselves from having a God awful, three-dimensional Superman shield. That's not helpful for these kinds of characters and where they come from."


Considering how old and fat he makes his heroes, I'm not sure if this is just one of those " it sounds/looks good in your head" but not in real life.

 

[TheWatcher]

Considering how old and fat he makes his heroes, I'm not sure if this is just one of those " it sounds/looks good in your head" but not in real life.[/quote]
old and fat? more like realistic

 

[ChickenScratch]

I think there's room for Alex's interpretation. He's a great painter and does raise valid points.

 

[bunk]

I am tired of rubber suits. The quality of them has certainly increased, but I would like some new materials to be explored.

 

[Johnny Drama]

I am tired of Alex Ross and his superior elitist attitude..

He drew Kingdom Come s everything he says must be right

 

[Addendum]

Not every costumed character has a trenchcoat and fedora as part of their costume, or have built a suit of armor. They're pretty much spandex.

So if you want movie costumes for comic book characters to be more than rubber or spandex, talk to some of your buddies in the comic world and have them design better costumes for characters that rely on skin-tight outfits, ok?

 

[Warhammer]

@Ross' opinion = "Yeah, whatever."

 

[Batman]

Here's an idea: Let the people working on the movie do their jobs.

Sure, there've been some bad costumes in comic book movies. But there have also been some bad storylines, bad acting, bad direction, and bad marketing. Why not call for a betterment in those departments, rather than the irrelevance of a three-demensional Superman costume emblem? It seems to me that Ross is complaining for the sake of complaining, believing he can do a better job when - let's face it - he's not always had the best ideas for costumes himself.

There are hits and there are misses. Calling back for the days of Christopher Reeve isn't going to change that a damn bit.

 

[Jochimus]

While I agree with Ross insofar as easing off the rubber for once, I can't ignore the fact that this is the same guy whose idea of redesigning superhero costumes is to leave the head/mask, shoulders/chest/logo and glove areas pretty much the same and make everything else all black. Unless it's Batman, in which case his body armor would have the three tailpipes off the old TV Batmobile on the back. Seriously, the only costume redesign of Ross' I ever truly liked was the unused Green Goblin for the first Spidey flick.

 

[SuperFerret]

I agree with what Ross is getting at, but if you look at the costumes that are considered good and those that are considered bad, there's a great variety on both sides.

 

[Red Mask]

I would have to agree with Ross. Rubber suits with fake muscles are pretentious to wear unless the wearer is hiding something. The Dark Knight costume was ugly, really ****ing ugly, with all of its details. I can understand the changes for the X-Men costumes but it's not something I'd like to repeat in every other costume. Too many shows now use black, taking away a lot of flash in the design. It works for Blade and Batman, but not every superhero needs to dress like that. The Japanese kick ass in practical design but superhero tights are a great American tradition. They should enjoy the patterns and fabrics without faking the body. At this rate, it's the superheroes who will end up looking like conservative fascists and the supervillains representing some hippie counter-culture force.

 

[Addendum]

I'd rather the costume designer attempt to make the costume look like something a person would actually wear, rather than stick with the skin-tight spandex that only looks good in artwork

 

[Red Mask]

Really? How many people woud really want to dress up in their national flag? Or even dress as a hero named after an animal? The Green Hornet doesn't look like a bug, but he has a dated look with that suit. It's a tough obstacle, but once you've cleared it you won't have to go back.

 

[SuperFerret]

The Green Hornet himself is a pretty dated hero.

 

[Johnny Drama]

I would have to agree with Ross. Rubber suits with fake muscles are pretentious to wear unless the wearer is hiding something. The Dark Knight costume was ugly, really ****ing ugly, with all of its details. I can understand the changes for the X-Men costumes but it's not something I'd like to repeat in every other costume. Too many shows now use black, taking away a lot of flash in the design. It works for Blade and Batman, but not every superhero needs to dress like that. The Japanese kick ass in practical design but superhero tights are a great American tradition. They should enjoy the patterns and fabrics without faking the body. At this rate, it's the superheroes who will end up looking like conservative fascists and the supervillains representing some hippie counter-culture force.

I don't mean to be rude but can you explain to me how on earth wearing a fake rubber suit is "pretencious"?

 

[Red Mask]

I don't mean to be rude but can you explain to me how on earth wearing a fake rubber suit is "pretencious"?

The Batman costumes since 1989 had molded muscles. The same thing was done for the Flash (TV) costume. Obviously the actors weren't that ripped and hard. So they're pretentious.

 

[KenK]

The Batman costumes since 1989 had molded muscles. The same thing was done for the Flash (TV) costume. Obviously the actors weren't that ripped and hard. So they're pretentious.

I don't think it's pretentious if you genuinely see the actor in some degree of shape over the course of a particular film. John Wesley Shipp was no slouch in terms of his physique out of the Flash costume (even in some recent photos, he still looks pretty buff to me.) They used muscle suits under the Spider-Man costumes, but Maguire (at least for the first film anyway) got in tremendous shape, and had to show it out of costume on film. Same for Bale in Batman Begins when you see him training. To say nothing of the fact that the justification of his suit is that it's supposed to be body armor.

I think there's also an issue of taking into account how a particular fabric might move and bunch up when it's just right up on the body. Sometimes the point of whatever undersuit the filmmakers/costume designers might use is to limit those things.

 

[Warhammer]

Anybody ever see that fanpic Batman movie with the Aliens and Predators? If Batman was wearing that in a major motion picture, I'd be ridiculous.

 

[Batman]

Anybody ever see that fanpic Batman movie with the Aliens and Predators? If Batman was wearing that in a major motion picture, I'd be ridiculous.

Apparently, Ross loved that one, too.

 

[Red Mask]

I don't think it's pretentious if you genuinely see the actor in some degree of shape over the course of a particular film. John Wesley Shipp was no slouch in terms of his physique out of the Flash costume (even in some recent photos, he still looks pretty buff to me.) They used muscle suits under the Spider-Man costumes, but Maguire (at least for the first film anyway) got in tremendous shape, and had to show it out of costume on film. Same for Bale in Batman Begins when you see him training. To say nothing of the fact that the justification of his suit is that it's supposed to be body armor.

I think there's also an issue of taking into account how a particular fabric might move and bunch up when it's just right up on the body. Sometimes the point of whatever undersuit the filmmakers/costume designers might use is to limit those things.

Having more pronounced muscles on the rubber are pretentious. The Spider-Man costume has so many patterns you can't really see it anyway. The Flash costume was obviously molded with airbrushed details to increase what Shipp already had. What Ross has painted in his Flash artwork is acceptable in how a fabric costume could work. The folds and bunches are not ugly in a Liefield fashion.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Here's an idea: Let the people working on the movie do their jobs.

Sure, there've been some bad costumes in comic book movies. But there have also been some bad storylines, bad acting, bad direction, and bad marketing. Why not call for a betterment in those departments, rather than the irrelevance of a three-demensional Superman costume emblem? It seems to me that Ross is complaining for the sake of complaining, believing he can do a better job when - let's face it - he's not always had the best ideas for costumes himself.

There are hits and there are misses. Calling back for the days of Christopher Reeve isn't going to change that a damn bit.

He is an artist, so thats his domain and why he complains about it.

Other than that, i will agree with most people here who disagree with Ross. I respect Ross and believe he was the perfect artist to do Kingdom Come, but i am more of a Jim Lee guy myself. Therefore, i dont really like bellies, thighs, etc under spandex and prefer a rubber suit if it can give the superhero that sturdy, "comicbooky" feel.
Not only did Batman in Begins look perfect, but he had that something extra going for him! A guy in a cloth/spandex suit would never have such presence and would always look like a man in a suit. Bale in suit looked like a monster. Besides, isnt batman supposed to wear armour? How is that supposed to look like spandex?

As for the Superman Returns suit, it was no doubt stupid, but i understand Singer... Reeves' costume would look too cheesy... He had to do something.

 

[Addendum]

Having more pronounced muscles on the rubber are pretentious. The Spider-Man costume has so many patterns you can't really see it anyway. The Flash costume was obviously molded with airbrushed details to increase what Shipp already had. What Ross has painted in his Flash artwork is acceptable in how a fabric costume could work. The folds and bunches are not ugly in a Liefield fashion.

So essentially Ross has a hardon for what Reeves wore in the first Superman movie and thinks outfits made in the 21st century should still be in that style.

Then I guess he can only settle for fan made movies

 

[Mr. Earle]

He has a problem adjusting to the 21st century in general. That's why he only draws Hal and refuses to draw Kyle and i think he has problem with Wally as well.

 

[Red Mask]

So essentially Ross has a hardon for what Reeves wore in the first Superman movie and thinks outfits made in the 21st century should still be in that style.

Then I guess he can only settle for fan made movies

I'm saying the moviemakers should learn to appreciate fabrics for what they are. The Watchmen costumes were not impressive despite their efforts to go rubber. Malin Akerman even hated her costume. It didn't even scream 'Silk Spectre". Ozymandias looked more like a tool with his fake pecks. The Daredevil costume worked because it was it a functional use of leather in bright red. If it was rubber he'd look more like a condom. Blade and Batman can get away with black costumes because they don't need to be seen clearly in broad daylight.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The whole point of the watchmen suits was to be ridiculous and over the top. Especially Ozzy's was a satire of Schumacher's Batman suits.