Alternative History - What If?

[Addendum]

Because we're in the US, and not everyone gets Canadian news.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

Yeah, I mean, mass murder of children in school and then hiding the remains, that's just every day news, no need to say anything. Plus it happened so long ago, WHO CARES, right?

 

[Addendum]

Yeah, I mean, mass murder of children in school and then hiding the remains, that's just every day news, no need to say anything. Plus it happened so long ago, WHO CARES, right?

Then write a letter to a Canadian news station and have them cover it. Since it happened in Canada, it's Canada's problem not the United States'.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

Since when did I say or even infer that it was the United States' fault or their problem? That wasn't even remotely the point. It's an example of a media suppressed/ignored story. It happens all the time. Everywhere.

 

[Addendum]

The national US hardly ever covers Canadian news. The only time I hear it when Chris Berman salutes the team that won the Grey Cup. Now, maybe on the local level, the cities that are in spitting distance of the border may.

There are several books condemning the US policy with Native Americans, so nothing is being suppressed. The information is available for those who want it. Again, what you're talking about happened in Canada. So complain to them, not to US citizens who don't give a damn about Canada except for Gretzky, the band Rush, and the comedians from Canada.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

Maybe it's just me, but when you uncover something like that, you should hear about it no matter where you are in the world and justice should be served. Neither happened. That's a crime in and of itself.

I like that phrase though, "US policy with Indians". What a ****ing joke.

 

[Addendum]

Then Canada is guilty. Oh ****ing well.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

And therein lies the problem in all of us.

 

[Addendum]

I'm content with that. I don't bother my neighbor.

I keep my noise down, they keep theirs down as well, and all is good.

 

[coreymb16]

Why are we changing topics. I thought we were talking about JFK?lol.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Here ya go, Matt.

 

[The Overlord]

Ok, guess this thread is back.

What if Germany won World War I? Let say they won in 1916, before the US entered war and before the October revolution.

 

[Backdrifter]

Ok, guess this thread is back.

What if Germany won World War I? Let say they won in 1916, before the US entered war and before the October revolution.

My knowledge of WWI isn't robust enough to comment.

 

[The Overlord]

My knowledge of WWI isn't robust enough to comment.

Think about it though, because of WWI the US became less isolationist and the fallout from WWI created Nazi Germany and the USSR, so Germany winning in 1916 could change all of that.

Germany winning could have reserved the position, where Britain and France were paying repatriations instead of Germany. Would Britain and France have reacted the same way become extremist dictatorships like Germany or would they have remained Democracies?

WWI was one of the most important tuning points in modern history.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Think about it though, because of WWI the US became less isolationist and the fallout from WWI created Nazi Germany and the USSR, so Germany winning in 1916 could change all of that.

Germany winning could have reserved the position, where Britain and France were paying repatriations instead of Germany. Would Britain and France have reacted the same way become extremist dictatorships like Germany or would they have remained Democracies?

WWI was one of the most important tuning points in modern history.

I wrote a paper on WW1 years ago in college and one of Germany's goals was taking a big chunk of Russian territory. I would think that sort of take over would cause a lot of social chaos. I assume that a general German victory would take land from France as well. I cant see the Russian and French people taking this laying down. I can see insurgencies and terror attacks against the Central Powers. Basically 1916 Germany would be 2009 America.

 

[BlackLantern]

well anyone that has ever tried to take Russia gets stonewalled eventually and fails

 

[Pink Ranger]

It's a very interesting question, mainly because of what would constitute "winning" World War 1 for the Central Powers side. That question alone confuses matters.

Would Germany even want to control all of continental Europe? Unlikely, the logistics of it are staggering. How much of the Russian Empire would they take? As mentioned before, the idea of them being able to subjugate ethnic Russians is unlikely. Here's my take:

1. Germany is still a monarchy. Hitler and the Nazis never happened. The German Empire still consists of Germany as we know it now, plus Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Denmark, the Benelux countries, the Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Switzerland (kind of) and maybe bits of eastern France, but not all of it. It also continues to hold significant colonies in southeast Asia and Africa. Germany today is the second largest and most powerful economy in the world next to the United States.

2. Islamic terrorism is still around, but is different, because the Ottoman Empire never really went away and Israel doesn't exist ("Poland" and Germany are the unofficial Jewish homeland for the world). Islamic extremism is entirely focussed on upstart fundamentalists fighting against the entrenched power structure of the Ottomans and similar monarchies, and rarely result in terror attacks against American or European targets. This becomes a major theatre of war, but not a world war.

3. The USSR is still around. The communist revolution happened anyway, as the Russian nascent democracy was incompetent, as was the monarchy, and led them to lose a big chunk of territory. A much stronger German Empire and USSR become closer, due to common economic interests and the fact that the communist revolution was a big help to Germany. It's still a bad place to live, but with no cold war as we know it (WW2 never happened) the Soviet economic system gets to stagger on living for longer than it should.

4. China remains a democratic republic, then a constitutional monarchy eventually, albeit a corrupt and chaotic one. 3-4 autonomous countries eventually split off from China. China still becomes a strong economy, but not the 2nd superpower it is expected to today. Japan never really develops a bubble economy, and becomes a small but strong economic force, akin to South Korea and Taiwan of today.

5. The USA becomes extremely isolationist. Canada more so, and the British Commonwealth virtually disintegrates, with most countries like Canada, Australia etc. cutting ties entirely to the UK. Canada tries to become a republic, but eventually merges with the United States. The Depression still happens though, and with no cold war alarmism socialism and communism become vital political forces in this expanded United States, which becomes a 3-4 part democracy because all the wide ranges of political beliefs. Race relations are set back at least 20 years, however, as without WW2 the world never really learns the true price of bigotry.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I would add a possible early economic collapse (1929 scale) in the US after the war ended. I forget the exact ratio but British war bonds vastly outnumbered German war bonds in the States, due to America's strongly British background and culture.

 

[Jumpin' Jack]

What if Lincoln or JFK where never shot?

 

[Aesop Rocks]

What if Lincoln or JFK where never shot?

Everything would be fine.

Bobby Kennedy would more than likely won his race in '64

 

[BlackLantern]

check out the film "C.S.A."

 

[Hobgoblin]

check out the film "C.S.A."

I did. Didnt care for it. The Confederacy had no interest in forcing slavery on the Union states. The fact that "C.S.A." tried to say otherwise is baloney.

The rest of it was interesting, though. I had no idea

Spoiler

that all of those TV commercials were real. The blatant racism was amazing.

 

[BlackLantern]

not the commercials, but the products were....the cigarettes and the restaurant were legit brands way back....

I think they tried to put across that slavery was responsible for the economic recovery of the country at that time...which isn't the greatest theory...

I look at the movie as anecdotal at best