Comics Amazing Spider-Man 601 Preview [SPOILERS]

[Themanofbat]

Bottom line...the numbers are low for various reasons...economy, people not liking the reboot, spending 3X, etc, and maybe other reasons...

This sleeping with someone, if it happened, doesn't surprise me. Joe said long ago he wanted "love triangles".

The drunked part bothers me much more, personally.

Wouldn't let my kids read this, same as my parents wouldn't have let me. I am glad MArvel hadn't done this before, or I'd never have had a lifetime of spider-enjoyment and the role model that Pete was/is to me.

But, back to the low sales...this kind of stuff has ALL the FORUM SITES lit up...Joe again has people TALKING...and lots of immature little boys (lol) are gonna want to put their big boy pants on cwink and go pick this issue up because of the hype alone, that Pete was DRUNK and BEDDING WOMEN. Good sales strategy! Yes! Good story? No! Inevitable to have the mystically divorced couple sleeping or touching the opposite sex? Of course! Will MJ and PEte be back together someday? Of course! I just hope they don't sleep with too many people before they're eventually remembering they're married. Yuck.

Lots of good intelligent posts here guys! (TMOB, VanillaClonesy!, Styles!, others!!...just catching up on reading...got out of work early! woohoo!) ((You too SIAT!!!...funny, when i first got on here eons ago..lol...i found you offensive, now i ENJOY reading your well written posts, even if i don't agree!!)

Gotta go take off my under-roos and throw them in the wash....

(hey clonesy!...btw, i DID use "big boy pants" in a post..lol...and you'll find that's prolly the worst thing, if considered that...i've said...however, just for your info, we use big boy/girl pants/undies multiple times daily at the hospital...kinda a funny slogan we try to slip into convo daily as much as possible...so i personally consider it high-larry-us...i hope no was was offended, because i type tongue in cheek, alot, like i speak, yet i know typing is hard to "hear" the context when posted on a thread! )

((and i agree, there are uncordial posters on both sides of the coin.))

t: t: t:

 

[Themanofbat]

So, how much did Pete drink at this wedding to get so plastered???!!!!

He probably had three beers and sniffed the bottle cap on the fourth... t:

 

[Styleshift]

So he can never experience anything new? He's stuck in a loop is he?

So he can start smoking weed and snorting coke?
I mean, eventually the whole getting plastered thing is going to get played out ya know.....

It's funny, one of the most commonly used criticisms of BND is that it's all a rehash and he is doesn't do anything knew. Now that something new has happened the problem people have is that it hasn't happened before.

And that just proved my point. Because you've had a crappy experience with alcohol and that formed your opinion of it, you assumed that Peter Parker had similar opinion.

No sir, if you actually read my post you would know that I formed my opinion on his 40 some odd years of history.

I said why I felt strongly about it and I admitted it may be a factor in why I feel so strongly about it. But I also said I don't enforce my morals on others. Some of my friends are drinkers. If you think you proved something, sure go along with it. I hope I made your day complete.

So people in their mid 20s don't get drunk?

Nope. Peter is at least 29 if you go by the entire Marvel universe.
My problem is, he's been written progressively more mature.

To take him back and treat him like a 20-25 year old is nonsense.
He's been there before, if anything he's acting like a man who's having a middle aged life crisis. But it's just my opinion.

Peter often acts irresponsible. He has his motto but like a normal he wavers from that. That's why MJ knows how it feels to be smacked by him, that's why he crippled the Sin-Eater. Didn't he once have an affair with Betty when she was married to Ned?

Think of how long ago these stories have been written.
See the problem is this, you and I have two completely different views of Spidey.

You conform to whatever era you like best.
I like the evolution of the character's maturity. Since he has gone from a teenager to a man that (if you add up the years by continuity) is at least 29.

Sure he has made mistakes in his life. But people LEARN from there mistakes. Your not gonna shake my opinion.

I don't expect you to change yours. So if this is what you enjoy than that's great! I'm glad your happy about it. But I would like you to respect my opinion about this.

Dude, this may suprise you but I can visit the Crawl Space as well.

http://spidermancrawlspace.com/wwwboard/viewtopic.php?t=5241&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

What are you? A middle school bully??

 

[moraldeficiency]

Honestly, and this is me saying this, who gives a ****? He got hammered and slept with a chick. Now sure it's the roommate that's called him a perv and been a total ***** until her sudden turnaround in 600 (which was a pretty disappointing issue considering the hype), but it's bad characterization at best, nothing to really complain about. Pete's single now, deal with that (and before anyone says anything, remember my only real problem is how they used a deal with the devil to undo a marriage and force may to live against her will while aborting their children's very souls, but single is fine by me, I just want him to have to have some responsibility), he's gonna get it on though vin's sister is probably the absolute worst choice of his options. Personally I'd go with Norah or MJ2 as I like to think of her.

 

[stillanerd]

Honestly, and this is me saying this, who gives a ****? He got hammered and slept with a chick. Now sure it's the roommate that's called him a perv and been a total ***** until her sudden turnaround in 600 (which was a pretty disappointing issue considering the hype), but it's bad characterization at best, nothing to really complain about. Pete's single now, deal with that (and before anyone says anything, remember my only real problem is how they used a deal with the devil to undo a marriage and force may to live against her will while aborting their children's very souls, but single is fine by me, I just want him to have to have some responsibility), he's gonna get it on though vin's sister is probably the absolute worst choice of his options. Personally I'd go with Norah or MJ2 as I like to think of her.

You know, you raise an interesting point. Based on what I've seen, most fans have responded positively to Norah and thought that she and Peter would be the one's hooking up during MJ's absence. I think the reason folks responded well to this character (even though I think she's a bit too much like Smallville's Chloe Sullivan) is that, due to her strong, sassy, and spunky personality, she filled a void that had been left behind when Mary Jane had been all but written out of the books. And lets face it, compared to the two new female supporting characters who were around at the time she was introduced, she proved far more interesting in fewer pages than Carlie and Lily did in several weeks worth of issues.

But perhaps it worked too well because it appears Norah was only intended to be Peter's sarcastic, go-getter co-worker and never a serious contender for his affections. The characters who were created to be potential love interests and rivals for MJ, Carlie Cooper and Michelle Gonzales, seem less engaging. In Carlie's case, she just seemed to much of a cipher for Gwen and was incredibly underused as a character that she never got the adequate development or exploration of her character that she was supposed to. And in Michelle's case, as you rightly pointed out, her characterization has been inconsistent, has only been seen with Peter twice until now she's apparently in bed with the guy, and (based on this preview) seems to be less of a character and more of a plot device--and an overused one at that-- designed to achieve a desired result.

If the goal is to get readers emotionally invested in a potential love triangle between Peter, MJ, and whatever new love interest comes along, you would think they would have invested more time making the rival love interest as three-dimensional a character as possible rather than just another type.

 

[MaxCarnage]

Pete looks like an overweight Jon from "Jon & Kate".

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Nope. Peter is at least 29 if you go by the entire Marvel universe.
My problem is, he's been written progressively more mature.

To take him back and treat him like a 20-25 year old is nonsense.
He's been there before, if anything he's acting like a man who's having a middle aged life crisis. But it's just my opinion.

Actually, Peter can be quite reasonably 26 or 25 if you consider 10 years have passed since AF#15. I don't see him as closing in on 30. And even if he is... people who are 29 don't get drunk?

And again with the giant leap in logic from having a heavy night of drinking to "snorting coke." Jeez, I thought you said you weren't being serious when I brought that up last time, but you said it again! If you're personally against booze, I can respect that, but those of us who do drink might find you casually linking alcohol consumption to cocaine use a little offensive, even if you're half-joking as you claim (but again, why keep bringing it up then? Getting drunk and being Tony Montana are in two different leagues).

 

[iloveclones]

You know, you raise an interesting point. Based on what I've seen, most fans have responded positively to Norah and thought that she and Peter would be the one's hooking up during MJ's absence. I think the reason folks responded well to this character (even though I think she's a bit too much like Smallville's Chloe Sullivan) is that, due to her strong, sassy, and spunky personality, she filled a void that had been left behind when Mary Jane had been all but written out of the books. And lets face it, compared to the two new female supporting characters who were around at the time she was introduced, she proved far more interesting in fewer pages than Carlie and Lily did in several weeks worth of issues.

But perhaps it worked too well because it appears Norah was only intended to be Peter's sarcastic, go-getter co-worker and never a serious contender for his affections. The characters who were created to be potential love interests and rivals for MJ, Carlie Cooper and Michelle Gonzales, seem less engaging. In Carlie's case, she just seemed to much of a cipher for Gwen and was incredibly underused as a character that she never got the adequate development or exploration of her character that she was supposed to. And in Michelle's case, as you rightly pointed out, her characterization has been inconsistent, has only been seen with Peter twice until now she's apparently in bed with the guy, and (based on this preview) seems to be less of a character and more of a plot device--and an overused one at that-- designed to achieve a desired result.

If the goal is to get readers emotionally invested in a potential love triangle between Peter, MJ, and whatever new love interest comes along, you would think they would have invested more time making the rival love interest as three-dimensional a character as possible rather than just another type.

You know, I really didn't see the comparison md was making between the two of them until you wrote that. Because I haven't seen MJ as having those qualities for some time. I didn't think I'd like her being back in the title, but I'd like to see that MJ again.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Pete looks like an overweight Jon from "Jon & Kate".

How can you be an overweight Jon from Jon&Kate when Jon himself is already fat?

 

[iloveclones]

t: t: t:

Talk about synchronicity, I haven't heard that doof on the air in probably 10 years, and sure enough, I turned on the radio in my car, and there they were, playing Ice Ice Baby. Funny thing is, 10 years ago, I would have rolled my eyes and changed the channel, but give things enough time, and even the lamest of them become just benign and funny. I actually listened to the whole thing (maybe for the first time in my life!) When it got to the end, and he said "Word to your mother," I was laughing so hard I almost wrecked.

...vanilla ice ice clonesy.....doom doom doom buddaboom doom....

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Why does Vanilla Ice appear to have a large loaf of bread stuck in his gigantic pants?

 

[iloveclones]

It's for his 'nine. (I love fake gangsta talk)

 

[Jack O Lantern]

So he can start smoking weed and snorting coke?
I mean, eventually the whole getting plastered thing is going to get played out ya know.....

Dude that's like saying, "Oh my God Peter and MJ got married. How long until he's a polygamist." I drink, have done for some years, never so much as touched a joint.

No sir, if you actually read my post you would know that I formed my opinion on his 40 some odd years of history.

My point was just because he hasn't got drunk before doesn't stop him doing it in the future.

Nope. Peter is at least 29 if you go by the entire Marvel universe.
My problem is, he's been written progressively more mature.

To take him back and treat him like a 20-25 year old is nonsense.
He's been there before, if anything he's acting like a man who's having a middle aged life crisis. But it's just my opinion.

He's 25, as stated by the Beevort manifesto.




Think of how long ago these stories have been written.
See the problem is this, you and I have two completely different views of Spidey.

You conform to whatever era you like best.
I like the evolution of the character's maturity. Since he has gone from a teenager to a man that (if you add up the years by continuity) is at least 29.

Sure he has made mistakes in his life. But people LEARN from there mistakes. Your not gonna shake my opinion.

I don't expect you to change yours. So if this is what you enjoy than that's great! I'm glad your happy about it. But I would like you to respect my opinion about this.[/quote]

You respect my opinion? The opinion I came to after conforming? That's very respectful. And to be honest I don't get this immaturity argument, he slipped up. Mature people don't slip up?

As for learning from his mistakes, since you pointed out this has never happened to him before, how could he have possibly learned from it yet?

What are you? A middle school bully??

No. I'm just a guy who doesn't appreciate being told I don't respect other people's opinions by a guy who went to another board to insult everybody in this thread who disagreed with him.

 

[Styleshift]

Actually, Peter can be quite reasonably 26 or 25 if you consider 10 years have passed since AF#15. I don't see him as closing in on 30. And even if he is... people who are 29 don't get drunk?

If you go by Jessica jones age in alias than yes Peter is 29.
Yes his age is variable, but even Quesada said he was in his early 30s during OMD. The problem is, the character has been around 40 years. We know him well enough to know he wouldn't get hammered like this. Unless written VERY well.

There is no logical reason for him to get hammered like this because he can't face a woman he's lived with for years. She was the first thought in his head as he saw the woman (whoever she is) lying next to him. This is a man, who's lost his girlfriend to a villain. His girlfriend had an affair with said villain. He lost his identity during the clone saga. He lost his uncle through his own selfishness. But seeing Mj at a party makes him drink irresponsibly?

There have been stories written that explain why he does not drink.


It's funny how everyone is saying "im putting my own morals into the character". I'm using his back history to make my points while ALL of you have used personal experiences to explain this to me. Only TMOB made an effort to use history in his argument.

It's you guys that are putting your own morals into this story.

That it's "part of american culture" "that you've been there and have gotten drunk at weddings" "that people at 29 get drunk"

Think about it. lol

Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for ALL of you. I don't think any of you are "irresponsible". But if you got your feelings hurt because I believe getting hammered and not remembering if you did something incredibly stupid is wrong, than I'm sorry. I'm just not the kind of guy to sugar coat my feelings on certain subjects. Especially ones that have greatly affected my own life.

And again with the giant leap in logic from having a heavy night of drinking to "snorting coke." Jeez, I thought you said you weren't being serious when I brought that up last time, but you said it again! If you're personally against booze, I can respect that, but those of us who do drink might find you casually linking alcohol consumption to cocaine use a little offensive, even if you're half-joking as you claim (but again, why keep bringing it up then? Getting drunk and being Tony Montana are in two different leagues).

Yes, I was joking the first time and I am not exactly serious this time either.

But I brought it up in a different light this time.
He said "So peter can't experience anything new?"

So I pointed out that "well if he's gonna get plastered and wake up next to a naked chick, the next logical step to shake things up is for him to at least take a hit, if they continue to make him more and more irresponsible."

 

[Styleshift]

Dude that's like saying, "Oh my God Peter and MJ got married. How long until he's a polygamist." I drink, have done for some years, never so much as touched a joint.

That's not the point. You made it out that he should keep doing "new things". I was taking a little poke at that.

My point was just because he hasn't got drunk before doesn't stop him doing it in the future.

and my point is there are stories that contradict this.
Do you think he should kill?

There have been more stories that point in this direction than there have been of him drinking. In fact only recently has he been shown drinking. With no explanation. (which is something i found odd, but i didn't complain about in my thread about the annual)

He's 25, as stated by the Beevort manifesto.

He's 29. Quesada has even said he's older than that.
His age is variable. But there have been plenty of more stories that say he's older than 25.

You respect my opinion? The opinion I came to after conforming? That's very respectful. And to be honest I don't get this immaturity argument, he slipped up. Mature people don't slip up?

Yeah, I honestly do. That's why I didn't jump on your post when like 4 other posters where doing it on the crawl space forums. (Which I did say over there as well)

I respect you enough to debate you alone, and in all honesty if I didn't respect your post at all.
I'd try to find contradictions, put them together in a post and put LOL than ignore you. But I haven't done that.

As for learning from his mistakes, since you pointed out this has never happened to him before, how could he have possibly learned from it yet?

Wasn't there a story already told where he accidently had gotten drunk?
If you can (or someone) can track it down, I'd really appreciate it! I honestly cannot remember.

No. I'm just a guy who doesn't appreciate being told I don't respect other people's opinions by a guy who went to another board to insult everybody in this thread who disagreed with him.

ARE YOU SERIOUS???!
Before I said that, you and many others attacked MY OWN opinion of this topic. You attacked me saying I'm trying to instill my own morals into the character, while your using your own personal experiences to say its ok.

How is that different??

For the record I do think most of the story telling is garbage. I have said that many many many many many times. Everyone knows I have only liked a few story arcs since Brand new day began. The point of my comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously or as an insult.

I was making a point that none of you are taking my point seriously.
That any idiotic thing that Pete has done has always been defended no matter what.

 

[Styleshift]

Oh and about the "Brevoort Manifesto" that everyone throws around here.
He's basically ripping plots out of Spider-man 2 that have been done to death.

All of his points about Spider-man roll around stories that have been already been told.

I like the one about not immediately introducing Mary Jane into the brand new day world and than having the two "dodge" each other just like in her first appearance. Or the one about Mj being engaged to another man. (Spider-man 2: yawn)

I believe the best stories keep the core character intact and build off of it's continuity.
Just my opinion though.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

That's not the point. You made it out that he should keep doing "new things". I was taking a little poke at that.

and my point is there are stories that contradict this.
Do you think he should kill?

There have been more stories that point in this direction than there have been of him drinking. In fact only recently has he been shown drinking. With no explanation. (which is something i found odd, but i didn't complain about in my thread about the annual)

Have you ever tried something new?

He's 29. Quesada has even said he's older than that.
His age is variable. But there have been plenty of more stories that say he's older than 25.

The Beevort manifesto contains the guidelines to the new status quo, and it's says he's 25. Ether way, 29 years olds still get drunk.

Yeah, I honestly do. That's why I didn't jump on your post when like 4 other posters where doing it on the crawl space forums. (Which I did say over there as well)

No you just insulted everyone in this thread who had a different opinion than you on a different board.

Wasn't there a story already told where he accidently had gotten drunk?
If you can (or someone) can track it down, I'd really appreciate it! I honestly cannot remember.

How is having your drink spiked the same thing?

ARE YOU SERIOUS???!
Before I said that, you and many others attacked MY OWN opinion of this topic. You attacked me saying I'm trying to instill my own morals into the character, while your using your own personal experiences to say its ok.

How is that different??

I didn't attack your opinion, I didn't quote you, I didn't mention. I was speaking generally, making a point I have actually made in the past. You were the one who replied to me and took my general post as a personal attack.

I was making a point that none of you are taking my point seriously.
That any idiotic thing that Pete has done has always been defended no matter what.

Peter has always done idiotic things, it's only since the beginning of BND that it has started to annoy people

 

[farmernudie]

JACKOLANTERN: It's funny, one of the most commonly used criticisms of BND is that it's all a rehash and he is doesn't do anything knew. Now that something new has happened the problem people have is that it hasn't happened before.

not a fair comparison at all...so for you, it is not about continuity or character, but it will be judged by "newness", whatever the behavior? Just asking. Something new needs to happen?

New (things) storylines should be stuff that logically follows thru on storylines set up before it, imo.

For instance....Aunt May could find out she owes her life to the devil. Then Aunt May is very angry and begins detesting her nephew for doing something so idiotic. That would be a new dynmaic, that logically follows thru in this new world and it's set up. How would Pete relate or go about spidey stuff knowing his Aunt was not speaking to him or hating on him for his own stupidity???

Getting drunk and possibly laid is not exciting or "new" to some fans here, is the point some are trying to make. It is a cheap thrill and hype, shock and awe, especially for younger immature boys. SUre, some adults do it, and will relate also. Pete tho?

No one has once complained that the reason they don't like the BND reboot so far is because they want Pete trying new things LIKE boozing and sleeping around, or the appearance there-of.

And realistically, since PEte's body will process toxins quickly (quicker than a normal guy), according to contintuity, not opinion, Pete would have to get royally ROYALLY sloshed to be out and drunk all night to the point he can't remember or be responsible for his own actions.

So, i also, feel it is royally out of character for Spidey to suddenly get THAT drunk. Like many things of lately, it is for the SHOCK value alone, if anything, not for a greatly written "story", or for something "new".

JACKOLANTERN:
He's done lots of stuff worse in the past including taking money from a crimelord anyway, so they can see themselves do that but can't see themselves getting drunk?

I'm not getting your rationale at all....you're saying Pete is this character who has done lots of "worst stuff" in the past (Your words)...so that makes an ongoing list of more "worse things" to come ok??

I don't think of Pete as the type of character who does bad things personally. He is the guy who ends up doing what's right.

However, maybe you're right, since this reboot began, evil won, and Pete CHOSE to give into evil. I dunno...that's what makes it all feel wrong to me personally...but i guess that's what somepeople like here. Pete can do anything now, and it is ok. He just can't get a divorce or have a serious girlfriend or wife (progression), a kid, etc. He can't smoke, but he can get plastered and sleep around and deal with the devil, help mindwipe a planet. Pete, i guess, IS turning into a selfish pig, and it really stinks!

 

[SpideyInATree]

It's people putting their own moral sensiblities on to the character. Because they dislike drinking and think it is wrong, they automatically think that the character should agree with them on the issue.

I agree with this statement. I also agree with farmernudie to an extent that many people do see themselves in the character.

I see myself in Peter Parker. Everyone who has read Spider-Man seriously for any number of years sees them in Spider-Man. That's the main point of the book that the character can relate to the average joe who is just trying to make it through life and hoping to catch a break here and there when he can.

What I agree the most with Jack O Lantern is some people think because they dislike something in life means that Peter Parker MUST dislike it too. If he doesn't then it's "out of character".

I very much implore people to listen to the podcast with Tom Defalco and Howard Mackie on the Spider-Man crawl space. They talk a lot about the Clone Saga at first but they eventually go into just overall talk about Spider-Man and Howard Mackie says some very mind blowing things. He talks about the Internet and fans immediate reactions to certain things. I actually found Howard Mackie to be very intelligent and well thought out. Most people on message boards make fun of him and call him a hack. Which is something he addresses, heh.

Though one thing that he and Tom really stressed about were how many fans say, "So and so doesn't care about the character of Spider-Man at all. They are just trying to do something shocking!" And they both went into a little joke thing about how they must sit in the Spider-Man meetings plotting ways to destroy the character and make fans angry because all writers and editors are evil. Heh. It's great. You gotta listen to it.

But, one thing I will close with on this post is this: Expressing your opinion on a message board is cool if that's what gets your anger out and everything. But I've been on this board for seven years now and in those seven years it's been nothing but "I'm quitting the Spider-Man books because *insert event that fans didn't like here*". And many fans wonder why Marvel doesn't care about what fans say on message boards? I'm just going to say that it's probably because everytime they do something a group of people say, "I'm quitting Spider-Man because of this" and guess what? It doesn't reflect in the sales. That's probably why Marvel doesn't listen to fans on message boards. So, if you really want things to change I would suggest not buying the book, not talking about the book, and just washing your hands of it. Because, honestly, that is really the only way change is going to happen because even bad mouthing the book means that somehow,someway you, the fan, is still finding a way to get a hold of the comic book. Which either way...Marvel wins.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

not a fair comparison at all...so for you, it is not about continuity or character, but it will be judged by "newness", whatever the behavior? Just asking. Something new needs to happen?

New (things) storylines should be stuff that logically follows thru on storylines set up before it, imo.

For instance....Aunt May could find out she owes her life to the devil. Then Aunt May is very angry and begins detesting her nephew for doing something so idiotic. That would be a new dynmaic, that logically follows thru in this new world and it's set up. How would Pete relate or go about spidey stuff knowing his Aunt was not speaking to him or hating on him for his own stupidity???

Getting drunk and possibly laid is not exciting or "new" to some fans here, is the point some are trying to make. It is a cheap thrill and hype, shock and awe, especially for younger immature boys. SUre, some adults do it, and will relate also. Pete tho?

No one has once complained that the reason they don't like the BND reboot so far is because they want Pete trying new things LIKE boozing and sleeping around, or the appearance there-of.

Have you never tried anything new? Just because in the past he has shown no interest in drinking doesn't mean that at some point he wouldn't have. At some point everyone who drinks started.

And he's not sleeping around. He's had sex once.

And realistically, since PEte's body will process toxins quickly (quicker than a normal guy), according to contintuity, not opinion, Pete would have to get royally ROYALLY sloshed to be out and drunk all night to the point he can't remember or be responsible for his own actions.

According to continuity Peter is much stronger than a normal man, a non-super powered person would have no chance in battle with him. How often have we seen him struggle against the Kingpin or Daredevil?

So, i also, feel it is royally out of character for Spidey to suddenly get THAT drunk. Like many things of lately, it is for the SHOCK value alone, if anything, not for a greatly written "story", or for something "new".

First off, you haven't read the story, secondly it's only shocking because people are making it shocking. Peter got drunk at a wedding a had sex. OHMIGOD

I'm not getting your rationale at all....you're saying Pete is this character who has done lots of "worst stuff" in the past (Your words)...so that makes an ongoing list of more "worse things" to come ok??

I don't think of Pete as the type of character who does bad things personally. He is the guy who ends up doing what's right.

However, maybe you're right, since this reboot began, evil won, and Pete CHOSE to give into evil. I dunno...that's what makes it all feel wrong to me personally...but i guess that's what somepeople like here. Pete can do anything now, and it is ok. He just can't get a divorce or have a serious girlfriend or wife (progression), a kid, etc. He can't smoke, but he can get plastered and sleep around and deal with the devil, help mindwipe a planet. Pete, i guess, IS turning into a selfish pig, and it really stinks!

People think that because Peter's motto is "With great power comes great responsiblity" that every thing he does is responsible, it isn't and it never has been. Peter has consistently acted irresponsible throughout his life. The guy hit his wife for God's sake. He crippled the Sin Eater, decided on his own that Norman Osborn didn't need to stand trial because he couldn't remember the actions of the Goblin. He accepted money from a crime lord, decided on his own that Digger didn't deserve to live.

Peter has always acted irresponsible. His motto is about how he tries to live his life and like a normal person he sometimes fails. People just don't like seeing hero's fail anymore.

 

[farmernudie]

JACKOLANTERN: ...it's only shocking because people are making it shocking. Peter got drunk at a wedding a had sex. OHMIGOD

Strongly disagree. "People" aren't the ones making THIS particular subject with Pete shocking at all. MARVEL DID.
So please do not blame any fans.

It's actually ONLY shocking because it's PETER PARKER...!!!!!

If this was Tony Stark, I would NOT bat an eye about it, nor would anyone else probably. No one would care if he was sloshed beyond belief or woke up in bed with TEN women!!!

Again, if this was a 4 page shock and awe treatment to aanother character like Tony, there would be no shock and awe or tease here.

They threw a specific someone into a situation that would get a response, to drum up sales, most likely, due to the resulting talk and shock value.

So, obviously it IS shocking for Peter, specifically, character-wise.

According to continuity Peter is much stronger than a normal man, a non-super powered person would have no chance in battle with him. How often have we seen him struggle against the Kingpin or Daredevil?

So, your response to the fact that Pete's body will process toxins much faster than normal is that they do not handle other aspects of him correctly also? (and that doesn't even address at all how much alcohol it'd take to get Pete drunk to the point he cannot remember his actions. You just shifted the excuse off onto a whole seperate problem we weren't even talking about.)

A lot of your replies are starting to fall into a THEME....he can do bad things, because he has done bad things in the past.

He can get plastered and his body not process it quickly because he has gotten beat up by fat people and ballerinas in the past.

Thing is, people notice these poorly written moments. It's not about morality sometimes, but more about shock value, and for the sake of the DOLLAR resulting from the event at hand, no matter how out of character.

Maybe Marvel with this character has lost ideas on where to go? So now they're just doing anything shocking? Big events! Get people talking, regardless of what kind of talk it is.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Strongly disagree. "People" aren't the ones making THIS particular subject with Pete shocking at all. MARVEL DID.
So please do not blame any fans.

A writer can't make anything shocking. Only fans can by their reaction, if it shocks them its is shocking, if it doesn't shock them it is not shocking. All a writer or company can do is put something out there.

It's actually ONLY shocking because it's PETER PARKER...!!!!!

If this was Tony Stark, I would NOT bat an eye about it, nor would anyone else probably. No one would care if he was sloshed beyond belief or woke up in bed with TEN women!!!

Again, if this was a 4 page shock and awe treatment to aanother character like Tony, there would be no shock and awe or tease here.

They threw a specific someone into a situation that would get a response, to drum up sales, most likely, due to the resulting talk and shock value.

So, obviously it IS shocking for Peter, specifically, character-wise.

Every stituation they put Peter in is to drum up sales, it's a business.

And you ignore the question, have you ever tried anything new?

So, your response to the fact that Pete's body will process toxins much faster than normal is that they do not handle other aspects of him correctly also? (and that doesn't even address at all how much alcohol it'd take to get Pete drunk to the point he cannot remember his actions. You just shifted the excuse off onto a whole seperate problem we weren't even talking about.)

No my point is, that from the Stan Lee days until now, his powers have never been consistently protrayed. They change to suit the stories needs. So just because in the past his body has processed toxins quickly doesn't mean it wil also process alcohol quickly as well.

A lot of your replies are starting to fall into a THEME....he can do bad things, because he has done bad things in the past.

He can get plastered and his body not process it quickly because he has gotten beat up by fat people and ballerinas in the past.[/quote]

No my point is that Peter makes mistakes, and this is just another one.

Thing is, people notice these poorly written moments. It's not about morality sometimes, but more about shock value, and for the sake of the DOLLAR resulting from the event at hand, no matter how out of character.

Maybe Marvel with this character has lost ideas on where to go? So now they're just doing anything shocking? Big events! Get people talking, regardless of what kind of talk it is.

What do you know about writing? I always find it interesting when people complain about the quality of writing being poor but never give a reason why? How do you know this is only done for shock? How do you know it's written poorly when you haven't even read it yet?

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Strongly disagree. "People" aren't the ones making THIS particular subject with Pete shocking at all. MARVEL DID.
So please do not blame any fans.

A writer can't make anything shocking. Only fans can by their reaction, if it shocks them its is shocking, if it doesn't shock them it is not shocking. All a writer or company can do is put something out there.

It's actually ONLY shocking because it's PETER PARKER...!!!!!

If this was Tony Stark, I would NOT bat an eye about it, nor would anyone else probably. No one would care if he was sloshed beyond belief or woke up in bed with TEN women!!!

Again, if this was a 4 page shock and awe treatment to aanother character like Tony, there would be no shock and awe or tease here.

They threw a specific someone into a situation that would get a response, to drum up sales, most likely, due to the resulting talk and shock value.

So, obviously it IS shocking for Peter, specifically, character-wise.

Every stituation they put Peter in is to drum up sales, it's a business.

And you ignore the question, have you ever tried anything new?

So, your response to the fact that Pete's body will process toxins much faster than normal is that they do not handle other aspects of him correctly also? (and that doesn't even address at all how much alcohol it'd take to get Pete drunk to the point he cannot remember his actions. You just shifted the excuse off onto a whole seperate problem we weren't even talking about.)

No my point is, that from the Stan Lee days until now, his powers have never been consistently protrayed. They change to suit the stories needs. So just because in the past his body has processed toxins quickly doesn't mean it wil also process alcohol quickly as well.

A lot of your replies are starting to fall into a THEME....he can do bad things, because he has done bad things in the past.

He can get plastered and his body not process it quickly because he has gotten beat up by fat people and ballerinas in the past.[/quote]

No my point is that Peter makes mistakes, and this is just another one.

Thing is, people notice these poorly written moments. It's not about morality sometimes, but more about shock value, and for the sake of the DOLLAR resulting from the event at hand, no matter how out of character.

Maybe Marvel with this character has lost ideas on where to go? So now they're just doing anything shocking? Big events! Get people talking, regardless of what kind of talk it is.

What do you know about writing? I always find it interesting when people complain about the quality of writing being poor but never give a reason why? How do you know this is only done for shock? How do you know it's written poorly when you haven't even read it yet?

 

[stillanerd]

not a fair comparison at all...so for you, it is not about continuity or character, but it will be judged by "newness", whatever the behavior? Just asking. Something new needs to happen?

New (things) storylines should be stuff that logically follows thru on storylines set up before it, imo.

For instance....Aunt May could find out she owes her life to the devil. Then Aunt May is very angry and begins detesting her nephew for doing something so idiotic. That would be a new dynmaic, that logically follows thru in this new world and it's set up. How would Pete relate or go about spidey stuff knowing his Aunt was not speaking to him or hating on him for his own stupidity???

Getting drunk and possibly laid is not exciting or "new" to some fans here, is the point some are trying to make. It is a cheap thrill and hype, shock and awe, especially for younger immature boys. SUre, some adults do it, and will relate also. Pete tho?

No one has once complained that the reason they don't like the BND reboot so far is because they want Pete trying new things LIKE boozing and sleeping around, or the appearance there-of.

And realistically, since PEte's body will process toxins quickly (quicker than a normal guy), according to contintuity, not opinion, Pete would have to get royally ROYALLY sloshed to be out and drunk all night to the point he can't remember or be responsible for his own actions.

So, i also, feel it is royally out of character for Spidey to suddenly get THAT drunk. Like many things of lately, it is for the SHOCK value alone, if anything, not for a greatly written "story", or for something "new".

And let's not forget something else, Farmer. This will have been the second time Mark Waid will have used someone getting "hilariously" drunk as a means of advancing the story. Has everyone forgotten the scene in which Betty Brant gets intoxicated on Margarettas in issue #583? Also, this will have been the third time Waid has made Peter wind up in an embarrassing moment involving sex to advance the plot (although technically it could be fourth if you count him meeting the swimsuit model on the subway). First it was him walking in on Aunt May having sex with J. Jonah Jameson, Senior. Then it was him walking around naked in his apartment and accidentally running into Michelle. And now, here we've got a scenario in which he wakes up after a night of drinking and finds, to his shock, that he may have slept with Michelle who is also his roommate. Not only does it come across as something designed as a cheap shock value, it's uninspired and hackneyed as well.

 

[farmernudie]

JACKOLANTERN:
A writer can't make anything shocking. Only fans can by their reaction, if it shocks them its is shocking, if it doesn't shock them it is not shocking. All a writer or company can do is put something out there.

Huh??

WHAT??

Writers make stuff shocking all the time. They DO put something out there, for sure, shocking, funny, sad, etc. Fans don't make it that way.

Re-read what YOU wrote up above and think about it.

You're basically saying, if a tree falls in the woods and there are no fans to there to hear it, it doesn't make a sound.

Again. Peter waking up drunk and in bed with a lady=shocking.
Tony Stark waking up in bed with a woman and drunk=not shocking.

It's in some not even about sex and drugs (alcohol). It's about WHO.

And of COURSE writers WRITE Peter lately to be shocking...

STILLANERD:
This will have been the second time Mark Waid will have used someone getting "hilariously" drunk as a means of advancing the story. Has everyone forgotten the scene in which Betty Brant gets intoxicated on Margarettas in issue #583? Also, this will have been the third time Waid has made Peter wind up in an embarrassing moment involving sex to advance the plot (although technically it could be fourth if you count him meeting the swimsuit model on the subway). First it was him walking in on Aunt May having sex with J. Jonah Jameson, Senior. Then it was him walking around naked in his apartment and accidentally running into Michelle. And now, here we've got a scenario in which he wakes up after a night of drinking and finds, to his shock, that he may have slept with Michelle who is also his roommate. Not only does it come across as something designed as a cheap shock value, it's uninspired and hackneyed as well.

I agree wholly.

Jackolantern must be forgetting some stuff. There are the above mentioned shocking scenes!

What about Pete's splash page kissing JJJ...!! (CPR!)

They are throwing everything and the kitchen sink at shocking scenes. Which is fine if they must. But that is THEM doing it, not the fans. And it depends on who their source character is. Again, doing sex and alcohol with Tony Stark would warrant no response from us...but from pete...of course!!!

And why else would MArvel even send out the preview of that even...of course to get some promotion of sorts and people talking!

So how can anybody blame that fans for making the shocking scenes shocking, anymore than a sad scene sad or funny scene funny?

It's all logic.

Writers do that. Period.