An Open Letter from David Hayter

[Figs]

i find it disgustingly funny how there are two main arguements for not liking Watchmen, and yet both these arguements strongly contridict eachother:

1) The movie took too many liberties/wasn't close enough to the source material.
2) The movie was too similar to the source material/they should have made it different then the book.

It's mind boggling.

 

[J.Howlett]

Not different, adapt the thing.

V for Vendetta. Adapted well to get its overall points across in comparison to what's on the page. It achieves the spirit of the comic and achieves the overall atmosphere and look of the comic. But, it's not a tracing job either. It adapted it for everyone, not a small minority.

 

[rogue trooper]

And as for Snyder's comment about the typical Hollywood treatment, how does he explain, no matter what he says, the happy ending to his film compared to the comic?

How was it happier than the book, exactly?

 

[Angel_Dust]

And as for Snyder's comment about the typical Hollywood treatment, how does he explain, no matter what he says, the happy ending to his film compared to the comic?

care to explain ?

 

[rogue trooper]

Not different, adapt the thing.

V for Vendetta. Adapted well to get its overall points across in comparison to what's on the page. It achieves the spirit of the comic and achieves the overall atmosphere and look of the comic. But, it's not a tracing job either. It adapted it for everyone, not a small minority.

Many Moore fans say VFV missed the point of the book.

 

[Figs]

Figs,

Films and books are different mediums. Something that works on the page may not work on the screen..hence the word: adaptation. Snyder's film may have faithfully recreated the comic but for the entire second act, it just sits there with nothing going on. That's not a good thing for film because of the limited amount of time you have to get your points across in a film. It just doesn't work.

I know they are different mediums and that what works on page doesn't work on screen.

You have to remember this is the book that they said couldn't be filmed the book so many comic lovers treat as the holy grail.

Yes, Snyder could have, maybe even should have changed things around a bit more, but I guarantee you that so many more fans would have been crying bloody murder. I think because so many fans held the source material up so high that doing it just about exactly like the book for the film was the only option to satisfy the majority.

There was a way to make Watchmen for the lovers of the books and for the general audience. Snyder choose not to because, quite honestly, he's no visionary.

First off I'll throw this out their so you aren't confused about my opinion...I don't agree Snyder is a visionary either he still has to prove that with future films. As of right now, no I wouldn't call him one either.

With that being said, no, he made it the way he did as a service to the fans of the graphic novel(which he is one of). He said he wanted to stay true to the source and make it as accurate as possible...doing that means alienating the general audience since the story is a bit out there compared to a lot of Hollywood fare.

And as for Snyder's comment about the typical Hollywood treatment, how does he explain, no matter what he says, the happy ending to his film compared to the comic?

What happy ending? It ends much like the book with Dan and Laurie visiting her Mom then it goes to the office of that tabloid paper and the guy grabs for Rorschach's journal?

 

[protoctista]

Follow it step by step, as a studio executive would have done, and you'll see why the movie failed financially, and where they could have changed the film to make it more of a success. Because seeing exactly where and why the film failed shows how future film projects are going to be affected.



So what happened?


50 million opening weekend, number 1 in the box office charts, nice big audience. Who exactly turned up?

- People who were already familiar with the source material
- Some film fans and became aware of the source material through being actively concerned with films in general
- Those who were friends or family of/dragged along by the above
- Regular joes who got excited by an original, edgy, dark superhero film
- Regular joes who got that Dark Knight vibe.


So we've largely got a big first weekend consisting of a cult audience. There'll be a minority of people who'd never heard of the graphic novel, but it's largely the cult fans/people who take an active interest in this sort of thing. So, for the next weekend, either that same audience has to turn up again, or a larger crowd of people need to get attracted.


Why would a larger mainstream audience check this out?
1) Strong positive word of mouth from friends who form the above audience.
2) Strong marketing that opens up the appeal to those kinds of people who get the Dark Knight vibe
3) Massive media controversy/hype.
4) Some E-mail online ordering fans to go again.


Number 2 is expensive, and it's likely that Warner Bros would want to cut their losses rather than throw more money into the pot that they could potentially lose.
Number 3 is unlikely - it would have happened by now.
Number 4 is going to do exactly squat.


There's a whole demographic of people dependant upon hearing "Yeah I saw that Watchmen film, you should check it out" or "don't bother seeing that Watchmen film, it isn't worth it", in order to pay for or avoid the film.

So what the film needs is strong positive word of mouth.

But I think we all know that aint gonna happen. Which is why there isn't going to be an audience next week.


So that's where the film fails: word of mouth. That's why the film is going to be a financial flop.

Why was there negative/apathetic word of mouth?
- Because the film was R-rated, edgy, violent and downbeat
- Because the film was too confusing/hard to understand
- Because the film wasn't what people wanted when they saw the marketing - it was too 'intellectual', rather than actiony or it was too talky
- Because the special effects didn't amaze anyone enough to gush to their freinds about it.
- Because no-one was moved emotionally.
- Because the acting was bad

Whatever.
You can agree with these reasons or not, but this is the bit that studios are going to be analysing intensely. Because the long and short of it is that, for whatever reason, the film didn't resonate with an audience. It didn't capture people's imaginations. No-one's gushing about it to their friends. It's not the subject of intense discussion on the train, or at the pub. Because that's word of mouth, and there isn't any.

So if we're gonna start talking about how films in the future are going to be affected, start looking at the question above in bold/underlined. Because that's what Warner Bros is doing.


Do you really think that the strongest reason is because it was R-rated? or because it had rape in it? or because it was non-conventional? Because I don't.

If it was because it was edgy and controversial, then surely that would in itself generate word of mouth. Very few people who would be within that demographic dependant upon positive word of mouth to see the film would hear from a friend say "oh it's really violent and it's got a rape scene and a sex scene" and consider that negative word of mouth.

 

[Nivek]

Nivek,

No excuse for it to be 150 million. A VISIONARY director could've made that flick for 100 million and probably done more with it than Snyder...and this is coming from someone who loved 300....

J.


300 was 80% a green screen thing, this is live action with set construction and dressed extras, prop vintage cars, vintage costumes, ect...

 

[Addendum]

Hayter's letter has moved up Watchmen from "not interested" to a "maybe".

 

[J.Howlett]

You don't care about the atrocity of Adrian's plan because we don't see the ramifications of it. We see a shockwave and then we see Laurie and Jon at a huge crater in the middle of New York. That's it. He went gory for gory's sake for the action sequences (when that really wasn't needed) but when it really matter, he went PG 13 for the ending.

Then we get the scene in Dan's house with Laurie and her mother. Tonally, it's a happy ending, no matter how you slice it.

 

[The Sage]

You don't care about the atrocity of Adrian's plan because we don't see the ramifications of it. We see a shockwave and then we see Laurie and Jon at a huge crater in the middle of New York. That's it. He went gory for gory's sake for the action sequences (when that really wasn't needed) but when it really matter, he went PG 13 for the ending.

Then we get the scene in Dan's house with Laurie and her mother. Tonally, it's a happy ending, no matter how you slice it.

That was a happy ending to you?

 

[Showtime]

The movie sure is a risk and the studios involved knew this going in. This isn't going to be a huge box office hit, it is what it is. It shouldn't matter as long as you enjoy the movie.

 

[J.Howlett]

Figs,

I think many fans would've wanted a good FILM first, instead of a recreation. Because if it's a good to great film first, it goes beyond the built in audience to invite even more conversation about the material. As it stands, it won't happen with this film. It's niche at best.

It won't be Blade Runner...

 

[Figs]

You don't care about the atrocity of Adrian's plan because we don't see the ramifications of it. We see a shockwave and then we see Laurie and Jon at a huge crater in the middle of New York. That's it. He went gory for gory's sake for the action sequences (when that really wasn't needed) but when it really matter, he went PG 13 for the ending.

I will agree with you here. As much as I loved the film version that was one of my few gripes. They should have had dead bodies everywhere to actually show you the horror of it all.

Then we get the scene in Dan's house with Laurie and her mother. Tonally, it's a happy ending, no matter how you slice it.

I never got a sad or unhappy vibe from this scene in the graphic novel either though.

 

[Kane52630]

The movie sure is a risk and the studios involved knew this going in. This isn't going to be a huge box office hit, it is what it is. It shouldn't matter as long as you enjoy the movie.

yea, but for the studio,what matters now is the DVD and blu-ray sales
i know ill be buying the blu-ray complete version

.... does anyone know how many versions are they going to release?

 

[PLAS]

You don't care about the atrocity of Adrian's plan because we don't see the ramifications of it. We see a shockwave and then we see Laurie and Jon at a huge crater in the middle of New York. That's it. He went gory for gory's sake for the action sequences (when that really wasn't needed) but when it really matter, he went PG 13 for the ending.

Then we get the scene in Dan's house with Laurie and her mother. Tonally, it's a happy ending, no matter how you slice it.

as happy as it was in the GN

 

[J.Howlett]

Sage,

By the results of the story, no, it's not a happy ending. But, again tonally, it does feel like a happy ending compared to the graphic novel.

Dan gets the girl. That's how the film ends. That's how it feels. And then, his choice of music at the credits don't help matters much.

Compare that to the film of last summer. A HOPEFUL ending but not a happy one by any stretch of the imagination. And tonally, it doesn't feel happy one bit.

 

[J.Howlett]

Sage,

By the results of the story, no, it's not a happy ending. But, again tonally, it does feel like a happy ending compared to the graphic novel.

Dan gets the girl. That's how the film ends. That's how it feels. And then, his choice of music at the credits don't help matters much.

Compare that to the film of last summer. A HOPEFUL ending but not a happy one by any stretch of the imagination. And tonally, it doesn't feel happy one bit.

 

[Figs]

Figs,

I think many fans would've wanted a good FILM first, instead of a recreation. Because if it's a good to great film first, it goes beyond the built in audience to invite even more conversation about the material. As it stands, it won't happen with this film. It's niche at best.

It won't be Blade Runner...

I see your point and agree with your point about V for Vendetta as well. Only thing is, as someone pointed out already hardcore Moore fans hated V for Vendetta for what they changed around(I liked it myself, both book and movie).

I do understand what you mean by a "good FILM first" but I just think if he would have altered too much for the sake of the film medium it would be League of Extraordinary Gentlemen all over again. Well...maybe not to that extent(probably closer to V)but similar.

yea, but for the studio,what matters now is the DVD and blu-ray sales

i know ill be buying the blu-ray complete version



.... does anyone know how many versions are they going to release?

Supposedly three. Theatrical version, Director's Cut and Super Extended Version.

 

[rogue trooper]

It won't be Blade Runner...

That's right. It will be Watchmen.

 

[Showtime]

yea, but for the studio,what matters now is the DVD and blu-ray sales
i know ill be buying the blu-ray complete version

.... does anyone know how many versions are they going to release?

Well the box office matters, they really can't do anything about it at this point. So the DVDs are all they can focus on.

 

[Drz]

The thing what might have made the movie better for the general audiance if they had focused more on the "who watches the watchmen" theme, for me it seemed lacking. Zack Snyder did a huge favour for us fans when he made the movie like it was in the comic. I mean the 1st plan was to have modern time, have some iran/irak thing on it too, Rorschach would get to a army prison and whatnot ****. =S

 

[The Sage]

Wasn't sure which to post to reply to, lol.

Sage,

By the results of the story, no, it's not a happy ending. But, again tonally, it does feel like a happy ending compared to the graphic novel.

Dan gets the girl. That's how the film ends. That's how it feels. And then, his choice of music at the credits don't help matters much.

Compare that to the film of last summer. A HOPEFUL ending but not a happy one by any stretch of the imagination. And tonally, it doesn't feel happy one bit.

Dan got the girl long before the end of the movie.

The only moment at that felt anywhere remotely to happy is when Rorschach's journal is discovered, because the truth could possibly be revealed. Of course, then the question is would that be a good thing, as revealing the truth could lead to everything going back the way it was before cities' destruction.

 

[DACrowe]

One final mission from Snake? All right, I'm right there with ya' Solid....now where did I put that cardboard box?

 

[Carmine Falcone]

V for Vendetta. Adapted well to get its overall points across in comparison to what's on the page. It achieves the spirit of the comic and achieves the overall atmosphere and look of the comic. But, it's not a tracing job either. It adapted it for everyone, not a small minority.

Hell no! The comic is grimy, dirty and uneasy. The movie is pretty much cardboard Hollywood glamour. This may sound strange, but the only movie that I've seen that visually resembles the comic is Alfred Hitchcock's Frenzy.