An Open Letter from David Hayter

[chosen1]

I keep hearing how Watchmen should be praised for being "risky" and that Snyder should be commended for being nearly 100% faithful to the source material, but these aren't good enough reasons to excuse the movie for failing to resonate with audiences outside the Watchmen GN fanbase. It sounds like the majority of the GN fans love the movie. So, I don't know why Hayter wrote this. "Made by the fans, for the fans?" . Shouldn't that be enough if it's for the fans? It sounds like they're expecting a huge drop this weekend.

It they werent expecting a huge amount of money it wouldnt have been marketed so aggresively. It wouldnt have had such a huge budget. It is SO important that this movie fails guys.

 

[Arach Knight]

Yep...it could have learned something from Wanted. Mark Millar gave that adaption his full blessing. They took the critical idea (a young man joining a group of villains and deciding to follow the other path) and turned it into something that was relevant to more people than just the few thousand nerds who read it. They still stuck with super powers and the fantastic...they just changed the presentation. I could have never guessed that they would have done such a thing in adapting the story, and therefore it was exciting. I got to experience something new just like people who were unfamiliar with the comic.

Watchmen did no such thing however. People who have never read it might have had a semi-good time, but I was bored to tears because I knew exactly what was going to happen and exactly what was going to be said. If there were an apt juxtaposition to this situation, it would be the dull relationship or marriage. Imagine coming home each night from work and knowing exactly what your spouse is going to cook (meatloaf tuesday) and then you discuss the same things, watch the same shows on television and have the same sex in the same position for the same time duration. That basically sums up what Watchmen was. Faithful...reliable even...but boring, because there was nothing unexpected.

 

[Nivek]

Um, okay... gotta ask... are you married or in a relationship? Don't ever let any potential significant other read what you just described as faithful, reliable, and boring.

 

[Figs]

WOW. Man Its amazing how much u know about me. You are doing good.

Sorry, I may not know you personally but most of your posts give away that your that typical fanboy who needs to get out more.

A fan/fanboy that is actually mature and has a life won't be childish and stoop down to cheering because a movie he hates isn't doing well at the BO.

Honestly, why do you expect people to think of you better if you stoop down to that childish level of acting like a film of all things ruined your life or is somehow ruining the source material and that it must be stopped at all costs.

Just like the people who cried that Michael Bay raped their childhood and actually wanted him to die. Pathetic...and immature.

There have been plenty of fans/posters that have given negative reviews stating why they do not like this adaptation. Most of them I respect(even though I disagree on things)because they don't act like fanboys like yourself...they have maturity and are rational.

I also will admit what I said in my other post may be considered a bit immature as well...but someone had to say it.

 

[SatEL]

Yep...it could have learned something from Wanted. Mark Millar gave that adaption his full blessing. They took the critical idea (a young man joining a group of villains and deciding to follow the other path) and turned it into something that was relevant to more people than just the few thousand nerds who read it. They still stuck with super powers and the fantastic...they just changed the presentation. I could have never guessed that they would have done such a thing in adapting the story, and therefore it was exciting. I got to experience something new just like people who were unfamiliar with the comic.

Watchmen did no such thing however. People who have never read it might have had a semi-good time, but I was bored to tears because I knew exactly what was going to happen and exactly what was going to be said. If there were an apt juxtaposition to this situation, it would be the dull relationship or marriage. Imagine coming home each night from work and knowing exactly what your spouse is going to cook (meatloaf tuesday) and then you discuss the same things, watch the same shows on television and have the same sex in the same position for the same time duration. That basically sums up what Watchmen was. Faithful...reliable even...but boring, because there was nothing unexpected.

WTF? You do realise if they went the Wanted route this film would have been a disaster, Wanted was generally accepted because well no one really gives a **** about the original source cant say the same about Watchmen. Also when you change something as much as that it stops becoming what it's supposed to be adapting and starts being something new.

 

[Rorschach II]

Of course, then the question is would that be a good thing, as revealing the truth could lead to everything going back the way it was before cities' destruction.

With no Dr. Manhattan.

=]

 

[nathaniel]

I hope Watchmen does well it is a fantastic film and totally different to anything seen before it i do think if it really flops the day of anyone risking money on obscure characters will be over.

Most naysayers here dont care because most big name films and franchises are safe Superman despite flopping will probably still get a sequel and Batman and Spiderman sequels are set in stone a Wonder Woman film is probably also a certainty.

The fans of these are content thats all good but im afraid for the obscure comic book movie the likes of Blade and the crow may never appear again if Watchmen really flops badly and my secret dream of a big budget Booster gold movie will never be realised.

 

[Addendum]

o
I'm just really curious, to fans of the comics, how they would have pulled it off? How would one avoid making it a love letter while not alienating the core audience; make it commerically viable, something you can take your family and friends to while not totally dumbing down or betraying the density of the source material?

If I took different choices in my life and somehow ended up as a writer and was offered to write the script for a Watchmen movie, I would have passed on it. If asked why I would respond "You're asking me to write an adaptation of a comic series that was the only one included in a list of 100 books by TIME magazine? A comic that in the past 20+ years since it was first published has been considered by those in the comic industry to be one of the great comics? I think that my writing is good, but I know my limitations."

 

[Gilpesh]

if it really flops the day of anyone risking money on obscure characters will be over.

You actually bought that s--t? How many movies have flopped in the past that were out there and obscure? And they're still making movies like them.

 

[Figs]

You actually bought that s--t? How many movies have flopped in the past that were out there and obscure? And they're still making movies like them.

The thing is, if Watchmen does flop overall, it doesn't mean no studio will ever take the chance to finance risky films like that again. It just means that instead of being a step forward towards studios being more trusting with writers and directors making their film it's another step back. The more films like this that actually do really well at the BO would overtime hopefully get studios to take more of these risks more often and we might not get nearly as many cliche'd and unoriginal films as Hollywood pumps out.

Overall, I think more risky films have flopped or just done alright then done well. I just would like to see the day that that would change.

 

[Anita18]

And something like The Reader gets Nominated for an Oscar...

We'll never know if it was comic book movie bias or Weinstein or Pollack/Minghella love that got The Reader in above TDK. But it's definitely Academy self-congratulations.

I'm just really sad that people weren't as blown away as I was. I was nearly in tears before Rorschach gets blown up.

You can be enamored of pieces of the film while not being blown away by the whole. Haley was THE highlight for me - the movie lost a lot of spark when he wasn't on screen. (I was in tears for Rorschach's last scene.) Except for the short shot of Dr. Manhattan appearing on Mars, that was gorgeous. Everything else barely registers for me a week later.

An article by Richard Corliss in TIME magazine says, "..this ambitious picture is a thing of bits and pieces. But oh, those beautiful bits. And wow, those magnificent pieces." I feel the same way.

 

[Silverglade]

An article by Richard Corliss in TIME magazine says, "..this ambitious picture is a thing of bits and pieces. But oh, those beautiful bits. And wow, those magnificent pieces." I feel the same way.

And those bits and pieces have high replay value. I just saw it today for my third time, this time on IMAX. It was religious.

Ya know, Adrian kicks ass in this. Great work by Goode. His work is better with each viewing.

 

[Arach Knight]

Um, okay... gotta ask... are you married or in a relationship? Don't ever let any potential significant other read what you just described as faithful, reliable, and boring.

Yes I have a girlfriend. And we don't do the same thing night after night. She would get bored and we would break up. She lives for excitement, randomness and difference. It doesn't mean that neither of us has an appreciation for the familiar. In fact I am much more inclined to repetition and familiarity. However, I also have a fond appreciation for the sporadic and spontaneous. The examples I could give are neither appropriate for this topic nor general conversation. But lets just say that we don't have the same meal or the same sex every night. And that is what makes it fun. We can surprise each other. If you are more comfortable with routine, then more power to you sir.

I still feel that is the fatal mistake made by this film. It became too routine in most of its shots and dialog. I knew Ozy was slipping that guy the suicide pill. I knew exactly how Rorschach was going to react to everything. The only exciting change came when Ro decided to meat cleave the pedophile rather than burn him inside his own home. But even that is a marginal thrill. I wanted to see an interpretation, not a facsimile. I already read the graphic novel. There is already a motion comic. So merely putting the idea into motion is not enough. Why not explore the ideas and make it relevant to now. The cold war is a distant memory in peoples minds. When the comic was written it was a contemporaneneous issue. That is what made it such brilliant literature. But now, this film comes off as a tribute rather than an actual artistic endeavor. It almost feeds Moore's argument as to why no one should bother putting his work into film.

 

[Nivek]

I've had a relationship with the same woman for 13 years (this March), and while I agree things do get mundane every once in a while, unless your looking for a fight or other strangeness, you never referr to anything getting Boring. We have had enough Drama that "mundane" is comfortable after obsessive stalkers, Family issues, and financial difficulties. Sometimes in the long run, quiet isn't that bad.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Did she like Watchemn?

 

[Arach Knight]

WTF? You do realise if they went the Wanted route this film would have been a disaster, Wanted was generally accepted because well no one really gives a **** about the original source cant say the same about Watchmen. Also when you change something as much as that it stops becoming what it's supposed to be adapting and starts being something new.

Let me first say this. I am a nerd. I know it, my girlfriend knows it. My whole family knows it. With that in mind...

Nobody gives a **** about the source material for this film. Comic nerds have propelled this comic to the status of overrated. It was and still is a brilliant piece of work, but over glorifying it to the point that it is worshiped is just disturbing. Changing the presentation doesn't undermine the fundamental concepts unless you change the concepts. That is why Mark Millar was okay with Wanted. They dumped the super heroes and super villains aspect in favor of righteous assassins and murderers. The ultimate idea was present and the director and script writers managed to craft an amazing presentation from that.

If this film had used all of Hayter's script, I might have a different opinion. As it stands, this film is far too much of a tribute. General audiences are already unfamiliar with comics unless they are pop culture icons (which is a realm predominantly belonging to Spider-Man, Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman). So average people don't care about Watchmen. In the world of comic books and nerds, Watchmen may be this quasi-holy grail but the fact remains that most comic fans aren't even aware of it. How many people have popped up and said they only read the comic because they were anticipating the film?

This sense of reverence that you all hold belongs to a minority so obscure that the source material might as well not matter unless you are the most ardent fan. You all treat it as some act of sacrilege or blasphemy to modernize or reinterpret this film while upholding the main ideas. It really wouldn't. I recall a monologue given by Chris Rock in the film, Dogma. It was something to the effect of "it doesn't matter which religion is the right one, but it's the faith that's important." We can take that concept and apply it here. The underlying themes of Moore's story, are more important than being 100% true to the original telling. And history has proven this.

-Scrooged
-The Dark Knight
-Spider-Man 2
-Texas Chainsaw Massacre

What is sad, is that fandom like this, is why this movie is a sinking ship now. If Snyder would have stayed away from fanboy opinion, he could have made a much better FILM. That is the point here. He needed to make a good film, not a good translation of Watchmen. And sadly, it's weekend gross doesn't even match the opening day box for Spider-Man 3. And Spider-Man 3 had minmal if any reverance for the source material. That, if anything should sink in, because Spider-Man 3 was God awful (from a comic fans perspective). But it managed to be a fun film that did what audiences wanted. And that is crucial if your goal is to make a film that works for everyone and not just jaded fanboys on message boards who want to ego stroke themselves about a job well done with Watchmen being so faithful. Why don't you go be faithful to it, because in the coming weeks, this movie sure will need the help of such fans. Folks think Superman Returns flopped? At least that made back its money. Lets see what happens over the month and see how badly Warner gets burned on this.

 

[Silverglade]

Arach Knight, I agree with your concerns and points.

 

[Nivek]

Pulling in $70 million is a sinking ship? Jesus, these are not scores, people...

 

[Figs]

Arach Knight, I agree with your concerns and points.

While I do agree with some of his points I have to disagree overall though.

While I understand what he is saying about changing things so they're more relevant with today and today's history, a good example would be Iron Man. Setting the conflict in the middle east rather than Vietnam.

The thing is with one shot stories like Watchmen or V for Vendetta, fans don't want extreme changes because then it's not the story we liked/loved. That's the main reason a lot of us want these to be turned into movies, so we can see it come to life...just for fun since we'll always have the book to fall back on.

If you alter to many things just to make it relevant with today's history or just to connect with the general audience(which, sorry, means dumbing it down a little if not using a lot more cliches)then it isn't the same story you liked so much anymore. It would become something else, and if it does the studios might as well have created their own characters and plot and title for that matter instead of using an already existing one.

It's why fans came up with those -INO nicknames, which stands for "In Name Only".

I totally understand Arach Knight's opinion and points but I can't fully agree with him because of what I just typed.

It's why so many fans hated V for Vendetta, they took to many liberties with it to make it relevant with today's times in regards to 'The Voice' talking about how it was all America's fault with 'our war'. It was pretty much making fun of conservatives since Bush was in the White House still at that time. While I still enjoyed the movie alongside the book, V for Vendetta isn't Watchmen in my eyes.

With Watchmen I wouldn't have liked it if they altered a lot of it just for the sake of making it marketable for the general audience as well as keeping up with the times in regards to history or wars/conflicts.

If you want a film that is relevant with today and is a bit more streamlined then use Watchmen as a guidline to write your own, don't drastically alter a book that many of us have been wanting to see come to life for sometime now.

 

[Arach Knight]

The current gross is $65,325,234million (http://www.showbizdata.com/dailybox.cfm). The film is heading into its second weekend already...unless it pulls off a huge weekend, I don't see this movie fairing to well against it's $150 million budget. Superman Returns started out this way. Great opening weekend, semi-stable week, then it started to tank.

I don't wish an ill fate upon this film. I am just vocalizing a very real concern that this film faces, and why it faces that concern. I'd love to see this film prove me wrong. Maybe then we can get a film for Strangers in Paradise. Maybe Y the Last Man won't languish in development hell anymore. Maybe someone will work up the nerve to make The Sandman (Gaiman) But as it stands, this movie needed a bit more than what it gave, if it wanted to truly become a box office juggernaut. It's painful to see this movie creep toward Madea Goes to Jail (which I still want to see). No other prominent comic film has had such trouble. Most of them draw in $100,000 million in this much time and cruise their way to further succes. But if this film is gonna get back the studio investment, it will be a lethargic journey, much like Returns.

 

[Leenie]

only with your friends huh? and judging from your avvy, I'm assuming you liked the spider man films and it's not just for irony's sake?


this movie was awesome because it seemed to almost completely reject the binary between a low-brow action/comic flick and a high-brow art film. This was Tarkovsky avec Die Hard. It subverted the entire either/or and short circuited it. It just falls out of that entire structure. If this 'fails' at the box office, then, just as Hayter said, I don't really expect anything on this scope being done again. This is just sad that people either expected some dumb fun movie with guys and gals in suits to watch with their friends for 'awesome' action sequences or the novel.

This was a love letter to the comic fans, but it would be a complete mistake to say that the fans like the comic for the same reasons ubiquitously. I'm just really curious, to fans of the comics, how they would have pulled it off? How would one avoid making it a love letter while not alienating the core audience; make it commerically viable, something you can take your family and friends to while not totally dumbing down or betraying the density of the source material? Nothing but a detailed answer and a script would convince me.

I'm just really sad that people weren't as blown away as I was. I was nearly in tears before Rorschach gets blown up.


And I think that moment really helped Dan realize what had happened. And remember when he beat the crap out of Ozy, he says "you haven't idealized humanity, you've mutilated it." I never got the sense that it was because of JUST Rorschach's death, and that line should back that up.


Also, the sense of doubt that Ozy had in the comic as opposed to in the film. I never got the sense that Ozy was sure of himself. The overhead shot of him looking somewhat sadly at his palm....the wreckage around him...no, no, this isn't Rorschach's ethics where the Cause is greater than living, it was a subtle way of registering his own doubt, his own isolation.

IMHO.

Hey, if you loved the movie, then nobody should be stopping you from seeing it as many times as you want. I was blown away by the first two Spider-Man movies, so I went to see them in theaters multiple times. Watchmen didn't have the same effect on me, though. It's all personal taste.

I think the thing that bugs me about the open letter is that the movie should speak for itself. The Dark Knight was a really risky comic book movie and it became the second-highest grossing film of all time ... And it didn't need someone to urge people to go see it.

 

[Figs]

Hey, if you loved the movie, then nobody should be stopping you from seeing it as many times as you want. I was blown away by the first two Spider-Man movies, so I went to see them in theaters multiple times. Watchmen didn't have the same effect on me, though. It's all personal taste.

I think the thing that bugs me about the open letter is that the movie should speak for itself. The Dark Knight was a really risky comic book movie and it became the second-highest grossing film of all time ... And it didn't need someone to urge people to go see it.

No it wasn't.

They took some risks but it wasn't a risky film overall.

Not to mention you need to remember the two main reasons why it made as much as it did.

1. It's a Batman film, he's a worldwide pop culture icon like Spider-Man and Superman.

2. It had one of the most talked about and acclaimed performances in a long time...that also helped get a lot of asses in the seats.

 

[The Sage]

While I do agree with some of his points I have to disagree overall though.

While I understand what he is saying about changing things so they're more relevant with today and today's history, a good example would be Iron Man. Setting the conflict in the middle east rather than Vietnam.

The thing is with one shot stories like Watchmen or V for Vendetta, fans don't want extreme changes because then it's not the story we liked/loved. That's the main reason a lot of us want these to be turned into movies, so we can see it come to life...just for fun since we'll always have the book to fall back on.

If you alter to many things just to make it relevant with today's history or just to connect with the general audience(which, sorry, means dumbing it down a little if not using a lot more cliches)then it isn't the same story you liked so much anymore. It would become something else, and if it does the studios might as well have created their own characters and plot and title for that matter instead of using an already existing one.

It's why fans came up with those -INO nicknames, which stands for "In Name Only".

I totally understand Arach Knight's opinion and points but I can't fully agree with him because of what I just typed.

It's why so many fans hated V for Vendetta, they took to many liberties with it to make it relevant with today's times in regards to 'The Voice' talking about how it was all America's fault with 'our war'. It was pretty much making fun of conservatives since Bush was in the White House still at that time. While I still enjoyed the movie alongside the book, V for Vendetta isn't Watchmen in my eyes.

With Watchmen I wouldn't have liked it if they altered a lot of it just for the sake of making it marketable for the general audience as well as keeping up with the times in regards to history or wars/conflicts.

If you want a film that is relevant with today and is a bit more streamlined then use Watchmen as a guidline to write your own, don't drastically alter a book that many of us have been wanting to see come to life for sometime now.

Excellent post.

I really never expected the movie to achieve blockbuster success. The graphic novel itself has left some readers uneasy. I've got friends who said they weren't sure what to make it after finishing it. I always figured the movie would do the same to the general audience and garner mixed reviews.

 

[Gilpesh]

It just means that instead of being a step forward towards studios being more trusting with writers and directors making their film it's another step back.

It's not. Dark Knight has that covered for at least a year or more... then there's still number three, and I doubt it would flop so hard that it doesn't undo any damage Watchmen did.

Plus... Snyder already didn't make his film. There's how many more versions coming out?

 

[Symbiotic]

It's not. Dark Knight has that covered for at least a year or more... then there's still number three, and I doubt it would flop so hard that it doesn't undo any damage Watchmen did.

Plus... Snyder already didn't make his film. There's how many more versions coming out?

2. Director's Cut in July, which is supposedly everything except Black Freighter, and Ultimate Black Freighter Cut in the Fall. Everything AND Black Freighter.