The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Andrew Garfield IS Spider-Man!

[Oscorp]

You're joking right ? I would be pissed with the cashier too after denying me that milk over a few cents. Certainly not be in a helping mood.

I love how everyone is a paragon of justice here but in reality people are just *****es. Thats what I liked about Webbs Peter, he felt like a real person.

This! He felt like a real person! Though people with no sense of empathy would understand that...

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I don't want to throw fuel into the flames, but here's what I think:

He didn't let the robber go because of the fact that he didn't get to drink chocolate milk, it's because the store clerk was petty and a *****e. Peter was also tired and already angry, therefore he wasn't in a mood to help the store clerk. The "buying chocolate milk" merely started the situation, and in a way has nothing to do with what follows

The fact that he helped the bullied kid "Gordon" before only means that Peter generally means well, but still needs guidance in becoming truly responsible. Peter is just human, and even the best of us make bad decisions in certain situations. Especially teenagers, which I think many forget Peter still is

 

[Oscorp]

I don't want to through fuel into the flames, but here's what I think:

He didn't let the robber go because of the fact that he didn't get to drink chocolate milk, it's because the store clerk was petty and a *****e. Peter was also tired and already angry, therefore he wasn't in a mood to help the store clerk. The "buying chocolate milk" merely started the situation, and in a way has nothing to do with what follows

The fact that he helped the bullied kid "Gordon" before only means that Peter generally means well, but still needs guidance in becoming truly responsible. Peter is just human, and even the best of us make bad decisions in certain situations. Especially teenagers, which I think many forget Peter still is

This sums it up perfectly, thank you!

 

[chamber-music]

I like that Andrew's Peter is slightly rebellious and has a backbone.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Exactly, you nailed it. Nothing to add except that Peter is presented in a much more realistic way IMO in TASM as a flawed, albeit good human being, simple as that. Nobody is 100 % good or 100 % evil, that doesn't exist, there are shades of each.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

This sums it up perfectly, thank you!

Exactly, the clerk is a f**** ass, I'm not saying I'd go as far as to do what Pete does, but I would be pissed, and rightfully so. A kind person would have just said "here you go, grab your milk, it's fine", but no, the clerk is one of those *****es.

Human nature is a fascinating thing.

 

[The Joker]

I don't want to through fuel into the flames, but here's what I think:

He didn't let the robber go because of the fact that he didn't get to drink chocolate milk, it's because the store clerk was petty and a *****e. Peter was also tired and already angry, therefore he wasn't in a mood to help the store clerk. The "buying chocolate milk" merely started the situation, and in a way has nothing to do with what follows

The fact that he helped the bullied kid "Gordon" before only means that Peter generally means well, but still needs guidance in becoming truly responsible. Peter is just human, and even the best of us make bad decisions in certain situations. Especially teenagers, which I think many forget Peter still is

Agreed

 

[Dragon]

I don't want to through fuel into the flames, but here's what I think:

He didn't let the robber go because of the fact that he didn't get to drink chocolate milk, it's because the store clerk was petty and a *****e. Peter was also tired and already angry, therefore he wasn't in a mood to help the store clerk. The "buying chocolate milk" merely started the situation, and in a way has nothing to do with what follows

The fact that he helped the bullied kid "Gordon" before only means that Peter generally means well, but still needs guidance in becoming truly responsible. Peter is just human, and even the best of us make bad decisions in certain situations. Especially teenagers, which I think many forget Peter still is

But Peter was also being petty and a *****e. And maybe the clerk was also tired and angry. You don't know what his night or his life was like. The problem here is that fans are short-sighted and only side with the character that they've chosen to sympathize with, forgetting that there's a world outside of ours. Again, not the point of Spider-Man.

And another point- Peter goes on a revenge binge after Ben's death, despite the fact that more clearly than any other telling of the origin, Ben's death was an accident, not a cold-blooded killing. Ben's foolishness in fighting with an armed felon who meant him or anyone else at that moment no physical harm made his death as much Ben's fault as the robber's and Peter's. So Peter going on a campaign of revenge is yet another example of how poorly the structure of the film was. And the thing that frustrates me so much is that all of the film's problems could have been easily solved.

Bottom line is that Peter isn't supposed to be petty and self-centered, as he was throughout TASM. Some fans here may chose to like or follow such a character for whatever reason, but that isn't the character that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created. Sure, you can "contemporize" him and make him a bully or a mass murderer and someone will find something sympathetic in the character. But this is supposed to be the character credited to Stan and Steve, not Marc Webb.

 

[AF3619]

But Peter was also being petty and a *****e. And maybe the clerk was also tired and angry. You don't know what his night or his life was like. The problem here is that fans are short-sighted and only side with the character that they've chosen to sympathize with, forgetting that there's a world outside of ours. Again, not the point of Spider-Man.

And another point- Peter goes on a revenge binge after Ben's death, despite the fact that more clearly than any other telling of the origin, Ben's death was an accident, not a cold-blooded killing. Ben's foolishness in fighting with an armed felon who meant him or anyone else at that moment no physical harm made his death as much Ben's fault as the robber's and Peter's. So Peter going on a campaign of revenge is yet another example of how poorly the structure of the film was. And the thing that frustrates me so much is that all of the film's problems could have been easily solved.

Bottom line is that Peter isn't supposed to be petty and self-centered, as he was throughout TASM. Some fans here may chose to like or follow such a character for whatever reason, but that isn't the character that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created. Sure, you can "contemporize" him and make him a bully or a mass murderer and someone will find something sympathetic in the character. But this is supposed to be the character credited to Stan and Steve, not Marc Webb.

he doesn´t know how Ben was killed,just that his Uncle is dead and the guy who killed him is the guy he let go in the store

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Bottom line is that Peter isn't supposed to be petty and self-centered, as he was throughout TASM. Some fans here may chose to like or follow such a character for whatever reason, but that isn't the character that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created. Sure, you can "contemporize" him and make him a bully or a mass murderer and someone will find something sympathetic in the character. But this is supposed to be the character credited to Stan and Steve, not Marc Webb.

I cut some of the text, but I did read the parts as well and I, for some things, agree

The thing I find funny though is that you say "that isn't the character Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created" when in the original comic he is a real self-centered jerk. To be more specific on what I mean, in the original creation by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, no one has done wrong to him or has even been an a**hole to him and he just let's the robber go all like "lol not my job, I don't care". No matter what you want to say, that is a solid fact and it wont change

Seriously, have you seen the first comic? Because I'm not sure if you know what you are talking about

 

[Joe_Kickass]

But Peter was also being petty and a *****e. And maybe the clerk was also tired and angry. You don't know what his night or his life was like. The problem here is that fans are short-sighted and only side with the character that they've chosen to sympathize with, forgetting that there's a world outside of ours. Again, not the point of Spider-Man.

And another point- Peter goes on a revenge binge after Ben's death, despite the fact that more clearly than any other telling of the origin, Ben's death was an accident, not a cold-blooded killing. Ben's foolishness in fighting with an armed felon who meant him or anyone else at that moment no physical harm made his death as much Ben's fault as the robber's and Peter's. So Peter going on a campaign of revenge is yet another example of how poorly the structure of the film was. And the thing that frustrates me so much is that all of the film's problems could have been easily solved.

Bottom line is that Peter isn't supposed to be petty and self-centered, as he was throughout TASM. Some fans here may chose to like or follow such a character for whatever reason, but that isn't the character that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created. Sure, you can "contemporize" him and make him a bully or a mass murderer and someone will find something sympathetic in the character. But this is supposed to be the character credited to Stan and Steve, not Marc Webb.

Oh, so I guess Raimi's Peter wasn't self-centered and petty when he decided to stop being
Spider-Man, potentially allowing dozens of people to die, and willingly let's a guy get mugged by not trying to do anything at all. He realizes he was wrong for it and decides to be a hero again.
Why can't Peter do the same for the Gwen situation? He made a bad decision and realizes the impact of it, so he decides to improve upon himself. Also, the clerk said "What, your mommy didn't give you your milk money?". He's an orphan who just got into an argument over his parents with his Uncle. You telling me that it's unreasonable for him to be p*ssed off by that and possibly take it personally? Btw, if you remember correctly the robber threw Peter the milk, which probably made Peter even less wanting to interfer.

 

[Nathan]

At this point I think we need to post the comic at the top of every new page. Peter was bullied in the comics, yes, but before he let the thief go, everything was going just right for him. His future was secured, he would have had wealth, fame, life would finally be what he deserved. And according to his own words, the rest of the world could hang for all he cared.

Peter in the Movie isn't even that big of a jerk. One of the first things we see, is Peter standing up for a kid, and that's before he got his powers. And even when he gets his ass handed to him, he stands by his decision. And all the things he did, that apparently made him appear self-centered, was just natural progression. He wanted to find out what his father worked on before he disappeared and met Dr. Connors in the process. Once he revealed that he was Richard's son, they quickly developed a mentor/student relationship, and he was doing something important, like his father once did. Alright, he didn't pick up his Aunt, and he should have been responsible enough to know better. But you've got to realize that he was on the brink of a breakthrough. The work he was doing with Connors, could have helped people all over the world. So he neglected his smaller responsibilities. And isn't that what practically all scientist do? Not sweating the small stuff, while they work on something much bigger? Then we get Uncle Ben grinding his ass, not letting off and eventually all the emotions Peter kept bottling up, just boiled over.

You know, I find Tobey's Peter to be actually the bigger jerk here. Oh, big surprise, the Webb defender hates Raimi's movie. Hurrdy durr! But I just look at the car scene. Uncle Ben is being all compassionate, caring, calmy talking with Peter, and all we get is the typical teenager behavior, I know better, stop acting like my dad. Tobey's Peter didn't even have the excuse of looking up what his dad was involved in and secretly working on groundbreaking, scientific experiments. And then getting scolded by Uncle Ben who just won't let go of the issue. No, he just has a ***** for the girl next door.

 

[chamber-music]

Of course fans are going to to sympathize with Peter its his movie. This isn't the amazing store clerk. If the director and screenwriter wanted the audience to sympathize with the store clerk he would of been shown in a more positive light

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I wouldn't say that Raimi's Peter is a bigger jerk than Webb's. But it's true that the original creation of Stan Lee and Steve Ditko IS a jerk, and so is Peter in TASM before Ben's death. But that's the whole thing, why make Peter learn a lesson if he already is a goody two-shoes

 

[Dragon]

I cut some of the text, but I did read the parts as well and I, for some things, agree

The thing I find funny though is that you say "that isn't the character Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created" when in the original comic he is a real self-centered jerk. To be more specific on what I mean, in the original creation by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, no one has done wrong to him or has even been an a**hole to him and he just let's the robber go all like "lol not my job, I don't care". No matter what you want to say, that is a solid fact and it wont change

Seriously, have you seen the first comic? Because I'm not sure if you know what you are talking about

Well, clearly YOU haven't seen "the first comic" (I guess you mean Amazing Fantasy #15?). Because in the 10 pages the comic spans you get a very good view of Peter's lonely life where he's ridiculed and isolated for his intelligence and lack of physical presence.

So........... When he becomes superhuman and is idolized for his power, he (as many would, teenager or not) becomes full of himself. When the burglar runs past him and the guard yells at Peter, yes- he is reacting to wrongs done to him- throughout his life. But ultimately, the point is that regardless, Peter is wrong here.

In the case of TASM, Peter isn't angry at any wrongs perpetrated against him. He's unreasonably angry about his parents being dead, and Uncle Ben expecting him to be responsible.

Again, the problem is that the likes of you don't look beyond your small space to see the bigger picture. Spider-Man is all about the bigger picture.

 

[AF3619]

Well, clearly YOU haven't seen "the first comic" (I guess you mean Amazing Fantasy #15?). Because in the 10 pages the comic spans you get a very good view of Peter's lonely life where he's ridiculed and isolated for his intelligence and lack of physical presence.

So........... When he becomes superhuman and is idolized for his power, he (as many would, teenager or not) becomes full of himself. When the burglar runs past him and the guard yells at Peter, yes- he is reacting to wrongs done to him- throughout his life. But ultimately, the point is that regardless, Peter is wrong here.

In the case of TASM, Peter isn't angry at any wrongs perpetrated against him. He's unreasonably angry about his parents being dead, and Uncle Ben expecting him to be responsible.

Again, the problem is that the likes of you don't look beyond your small space to see the bigger picture. Spider-Man is all about the bigger picture.

maybe that lacked in TASM showing Peter beeing ingored and ridiculed
BUT the part where Peter gets angry and storms out happens in Ultimate Spider-man, he runs away after the speech, hope i can find the page to show it

 

[Oscorp]

Getting "unreasonably angry" however is very common among teenagers who try to find their own identity while growing up. The emotions are pretty chaotic.

 

[Dragon]

Oh, so I guess Raimi's Peter wasn't self-centered and petty when he decided to stop being
Spider-Man, potentially allowing dozens of people to die, and willingly let's a guy get mugged by not trying to do anything at all. He realizes he was wrong for it and decides to be a hero again.

No he isn't being petty. He's war-weary. He's literally bearing the weight of the world on his shoulders and gets fed up. That's what a real person is like. And note that when he lets the guy get mugged, he believes himself to be powerless and doesn't think there's anything he can do. Of course he makes up for that by running into the fire.

And eventually he does realize his error. You see, this is advancing a character- rather than having him deal with the same problem endlessly he faces new challenges and learns new lessons.

Why can't Peter do the same for the Gwen situation? He made a bad decision and realizes the impact of it, so he decides to improve upon himself. Also, the clerk said "What, your mommy didn't give you your milk money?". He's an orphan who just got into an argument over his parents with his Uncle. You telling me that it's unreasonable for him to be p*ssed off by that and possibly take it personally? Btw, if you remember correctly the robber threw Peter the milk, which probably made Peter even less wanting to interfer.

I wasn't aware that we were discussing the "Gwen situation" here. And to your point about the clerk's remark, how could he know about Peter's family? Maybe he was as disregarding of Peter's life as Peter (And many of you) are disregarding of the clerk. It doesn't matter though, since Peter is the one in the wrong, no matter how you slice it. Whether or not the clerk is a rude jerk, Peter was supposed to pay for the milk or step aside. Peter certainly could've just nicely asked the guy to let him slide for two cents and that he'd bring it the next time. The real point is that the scenario was simply poorly conceived and executed to begin with.

 

[Dragon]

Getting "unreasonably angry" however is very common among teenagers who try to find their own identity while growing up. The emotions are pretty chaotic.

Yeah, and when they do it they should be corrected, not allowed to slide as many are suggesting here.

 

[Spideyman123]

But Peter was also being petty and a *****e. And maybe the clerk was also tired and angry. You don't know what his night or his life was like. The problem here is that fans are short-sighted and only side with the character that they've chosen to sympathize with, forgetting that there's a world outside of ours. Again, not the point of Spider-Man.

And another point- Peter goes on a revenge binge after Ben's death, despite the fact that more clearly than any other telling of the origin, Ben's death was an accident, not a cold-blooded killing. Ben's foolishness in fighting with an armed felon who meant him or anyone else at that moment no physical harm made his death as much Ben's fault as the robber's and Peter's. So Peter going on a campaign of revenge is yet another example of how poorly the structure of the film was. And the thing that frustrates me so much is that all of the film's problems could have been easily solved.

Bottom line is that Peter isn't supposed to be petty and self-centered, as he was throughout TASM. Some fans here may chose to like or follow such a character for whatever reason, but that isn't the character that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created. Sure, you can "contemporize" him and make him a bully or a mass murderer and someone will find something sympathetic in the character. But this is supposed to be the character credited to Stan and Steve, not Marc Webb.

 

[Dragon]

maybe that lacked in TASM showing Peter beeing ingored and ridiculed
BUT the part where Peter gets angry and storms out happens in Ultimate Spider-man, he runs away after the speech, hope i can find the page to show it

It's been posted already. And so what. We also saw Peter replaced by a clone and Gwen knocked up by the Goblin in the comics. Not everything in the comics is gospel. But the core of Lee and Ditko's creation should be.

 

[Spideyman123]

I don't see why you guys are talking abou the Amazing Fantasy and TASM Comics. When 80% of TASM The Movie material comes from USM

 

[Oscorp]

Yeah, and when they do it they should be corrected, not allowed to slide as many are suggesting here.

You can parent your kids in many different successful way, but yeah. I don't see where people allow it to slide here? They are simply explaining well why Peter behaved the way he did. Not saying it is OK to behave like that, but it doesn't make him a bad character. Every teenager has do learn from mistakes. And growing up is a slow process.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Well, clearly YOU haven't seen "the first comic" (I guess you mean Amazing Fantasy #15?). Because in the 10 pages the comic spans you get a very good view of Peter's lonely life where he's ridiculed and isolated for his intelligence and lack of physical presence.

So........... When he becomes superhuman and is idolized for his power, he (as many would, teenager or not) becomes full of himself. When the burglar runs past him and the guard yells at Peter, yes- he is reacting to wrongs done to him- throughout his life. But ultimately, the point is that regardless, Peter is wrong here.

In the case of TASM, Peter isn't angry at any wrongs perpetrated against him. He's unreasonably angry about his parents being dead, and Uncle Ben expecting him to be responsible.

Again, the problem is that the likes of you don't look beyond your small space to see the bigger picture. Spider-Man is all about the bigger picture.

hm... this has to be the first good argument I have heard from you

Still, even though Peter is being is being unreasonable and not responsible, that's exactly why he needs to learn a lesson. He needs a reality check

Peter is a petty jerk. But the movie is not "letting it slide" because teenagers do that, it's not rewarding Peter for being a jerk, it results in his uncle dying

 

[AF3619]

It's been posted already. And so what. We also saw Peter replaced by a clone and Gwen knocked up by the Goblin in the comics. Not everything in the comics is gospel. But the core of Lee and Ditko's creation should be.

i know,
but the thing is if they needed to be different and if they went to Ditko and Lee we may get more similarities to SM1,

they went the Ultimate route and as you said Peter was full of himself and ignoring his responsibility he still needs to learn responsibility stuff and the lesson the hard way

Spoiler

hm... this has to be the first good argument I have heard from you

Still, even though Peter is being is being unreasonable and not responsible, that's exactly why he needs to learn a lesson. He needs a reality check

Peter is a petty jerk. But the movie is not "letting it slide" because teenagers do that, it's not rewarding Peter for being a jerk, it results in his uncle dying