Another Person Shot While Looking for Help

[RetrogradeOrbit]

And CH goes on my ignore list....

 

[charl_huntress]

And CH goes on my ignore list....

t: Aww.....favor returned.

 

[Hotwire]

There is nothing wrong with me, but I do think there is something wrong with this scenario. If you can't see that then there is something wrong with you.

I don't find any fault with the gun owner because at 2:30am I am giving him/her the benefit of the doubt. This was not a normal time. Anyone thinking that a normal response was required is an absolute ****ing idiot.

Than color me a ****ing idiot. Because if someone I don't know comes knocking on my door at 2:30 in the morning, I'm calling the cops. I may confront the with a gun as well but, the cops are getting a call first.

 

[moviedoors]

Wow. The shooter was entirely reasonable and the dead woman was an idiot. Just wow.

 

[Teelie]

That's why you don't knock on some people's doors. They'll just straight up shoot you for daring to disturb them. What's unreasonable about that?

 

[Tropico]

Like I said, I don't have time to debate your ******** at 2:30am when you are pounding on my door. Take that how you will. Anyone thinking properly (and/or properly prepared) would not put themselves in that situation. Obviously...this fool did and she didn't live to tell about it later.

Since you've already stated your level of fear in this situation, even in the safety of your own home and armed... I very much doubt you'd be calm and rational after a car accident and NOT done what the girl did. It's awesome how you keep insulting a dead person for looking for some common sense and human compassion in an unpleasant situation. The others have already posted what 99% of people would do, even if they're afraid at 2:30 AM, if they were the home owner. You say that there was something wrong with HER, but to not call the police during and after the incident is more indicative of something wrong with the shooter. This is the last I'll say in regards to the matter since it's obvious you've dug in and will keep parroting what you've posted before regardless of how logical the comments presented against you.

 

[charl_huntress]

I would be calm and rational after a car accident. You don't have to believe me, but I would be. I also practice ORM, so I probably wouldn't even be in an accident at that hour. If I were, I would surely not be without a well-charged cell phone. Also, where is everyone reading the homeowner DIDN'T call the cops? I haven't read that. Maybe the cops were called, but in between the time they got there something happened. Anyways, I will end this by saying again, if everyone thinks it's so "logical" to knock on someone's door at that time of night then do it. I'm sure you'll run into someone just as logical as you at that hour of the night.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

it was posted in an update Char, the person shot her and never called the police. She was found the next morning by a neighbor

 

[charl_huntress]

Well I hope they called their lawyer instead...

 

[E-Man]

I would be calm and rational after a car accident. You don't have to believe me, but I would be. I also practice ORM, so I probably wouldn't even be in an accident at that hour. If I were, I would surely not be without a well-charged cell phone. Also, where is everyone reading the homeowner DIDN'T call the cops? I haven't read that. Maybe the cops were called, but in between the time they got there something happened. Anyways, I will end this by saying again, if everyone thinks it's so "logical" to knock on someone's door at that time of night then do it. I'm sure you'll run into someone just as logical as you at that hour of the night.

Two things.

1. How do you know that you would be calm and rational after an accident? If you hit your head pretty badly then you're clearly not going to be in your right mind. I imagine that it would be pretty tough not to freak out in any type of car accident considering the very real possibility that you could have died in said accident.

2, Her phone could have been rendered useless in the accident. All I've read is that the phone was dead. That could mean that she had no charge left, or it could mean that the phone was damaged in the accident. If her phone was crushed then she would need to go for help somehow. I know...I know. OMG! DON'T YOU GO KNOCKING ON DOORS! But if you're badly hurt with a damaged phone at 2:30 it's pretty hard to just wait until daylight for help.

 

[Hotwire]

Well I hope they called their lawyer instead...

Yeah! Heaven forbid he be held accountable for the dead woman on his front porch!

Even a victim blamer liker yourself would have to admit, it's pretty cold to shoot someone in the face, accidentally or intentionally, and then just leave them on your front porch while you go back to bed. This doesn't sound like someone who cared one bit about the woman or any possible consequences.


Another thing, from all your talk, I'd love to see you in a stress test with all of the preaching about how prepared you would be in that situation that your just too good to even end up in. What the Hell is ORM, anyway?

 

[Teelie]

Until you are in that situation, you cannot know how you will react. Saying you're confident in holding yourself together, while not ever having to prove it is one thing. Actually being able to do so when it happens is another.

I've seen people who thought they'd be confident in a stressful situation lose it the fastest and the ones most certain to be a panicky mess keep their **** together and do what they needed to do.

 

[charl_huntress]

Two things.

1. How do you know that you would be calm and rational after an accident? If you hit your head pretty badly then you're clearly not going to be in your right mind. I imagine that it would be pretty tough not to freak out in any type of car accident considering the very real possibility that you could have died in said accident.

2, Her phone could have been rendered useless in the accident. All I've read is that the phone was dead. That could mean that she had no charge left, or it could mean that the phone was damaged in the accident. If her phone was crushed then she would need to go for help somehow. I know...I know. OMG! DON'T YOU GO KNOCKING ON DOORS! But if you're badly hurt with a damaged phone at 2:30 it's pretty hard to just wait until daylight for help.

Truthfully, I spent quite a few years in the military and for three of them I was NSF. I have seen two dead bodies, one person nearly electrocuted to death, and lots of accidents where people get bloody. I learned to keep calm. I wasn't born with it. I'm also assuming, because we don't know all the details, if she was ambulatory and had the presence of mind to seek out help then she could have done something differently that didn't put her life at further risk. I do understand some people think seeking help was the right option, but at that time of night it seems too risky IMO. I would have done things differently which is why I find her choice to be a poor one.

As for the phone...le sigh...we don't know all the details. I just can't understand how in today's day and age with car chargers and what not how you would be out at that time of night without a well charged cell phone. I have a second phone in my car that is just for emergencies. It stays in the car on the off chance that something is wrong with my primary phone and I need help.

The homeowner not calling the cops is...odd. I'll give anyone that. I can't really explain it unless he called his lawyer instead...lol. idk about that one.

Even a victim blamer liker yourself would have to admit, it's pretty cold to shoot someone in the face, accidentally or intentionally, and then just leave them on your front porch while you go back to bed. This doesn't sound like someone who cared one bit about the woman or any possible consequences. Another thing, from all your talk, I'd love to see you in a stress test with all of the preaching about how prepared you would be in that situation that your just too good to even end up in. What the Hell is ORM, anyway?

ORM is Operational Risk Management. It's a military thing. I will admit the homeowner not calling the cops is odd. I can't really explain that. It doesn't make sense to me unless he called his lawyer or just froze or something.

Until you are in that situation, you cannot know how you will react. Saying you're confident in holding yourself together, while not ever having to prove it is one thing. Actually being able to do so when it happens is another.

I've seen people who thought they'd be confident in a stressful situation lose it the fastest and the ones most certain to be a panicky mess keep their **** together and do what they needed to do.

I have been in some dicey situations. I can keep my **** together.

 

[Hotwire]

Charl, have you ever been in a car crash? I'm guessing you haven't since you're speaking figuratively about how you would handle it. I've been in a couple. One, I was the passenger. The driver missed a stop sign and hit a car going through the intersection. It was bad. A lady in the car we hit died when their car flipped. I was knocked out by my head hitting the window. I can tell you from experience, had there not been people there more coherent than me, I think I would have stumbled my way to the nearest door for help. The second crash, I've mentioned in this thread already. I hit a coyote that left my car disabled and me stranded about 20-30 miles from anything. My phone had a good charge but, there was no signal. I started walking south on I-10 toward Las Cruces, NM. However, had it been in a more populated area, I'd have to say, I'd go looking for someone to help.

My point is, until you're in the situation, you don't know how you'll handle it. Sure, your training can help you prepare but, you SERIOUSLY need to lose this attitude you have that this woman was somehow an idiot, stupid, or making poor choices. Instead, I'd focus on why someone felt the need to shoot a person in the face and then leave them to rot on their front porch. That seems like the "poor choice" to me.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

This actually sounds much more plausible. I take it no one here has ever held or shot a shotgun. The triggers on some is not forgiving, and if you are holding it and not certain of your shot...then it can go off if you flinch or pull with an uncertain gesture. It happens, but I don't think it was deliberate because seriously...NO shoots someone in the face with a shotgun unless you're an Al Capone wanna be.

Then you better look into getting a more reliable gun, because you are responsible for what it hits if/when it goes off, regardless of if it was accidental or not. This is manslaughter at the very least.

And I KNOW you're not blaming this on the gun, are you? Because if you are there goes the common NRA talking point of "guns don't kill people..."

 

[Hal_Jordan]

I would be calm and rational after a car accident. You don't have to believe me, but I would be. I also practice ORM, so I probably wouldn't even be in an accident at that hour. If I were, I would surely not be without a well-charged cell phone. Also, where is everyone reading the homeowner DIDN'T call the cops? I haven't read that. Maybe the cops were called, but in between the time they got there something happened. Anyways, I will end this by saying again, if everyone thinks it's so "logical" to knock on someone's door at that time of night then do it. I'm sure you'll run into someone just as logical as you at that hour of the night.

"That would never happen to me." That is the mantra of the truly naive.

You don't know how you are going to react to certain situations until they happen. Even people with extensive training in emergency situations sometimes lose their focus and make mistakes in the heat of the moment.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Truthfully, I spent quite a few years in the military and for three of them I was NSF. I have seen two dead bodies, one person nearly electrocuted to death, and lots of accidents where people get bloody. I learned to keep calm. I wasn't born with it. I'm also assuming, because we don't know all the details, if she was ambulatory and had the presence of mind to seek out help then she could have done something differently that didn't put her life at further risk. I do understand some people think seeking help was the right option, but at that time of night it seems too risky IMO. I would have done things differently which is why I find her choice to be a poor one.

As for the phone...le sigh...we don't know all the details. I just can't understand how in today's day and age with car chargers and what not how you would be out at that time of night without a well charged cell phone. I have a second phone in my car that is just for emergencies. It stays in the car on the off chance that something is wrong with my primary phone and I need help.

The homeowner not calling the cops is...odd. I'll give anyone that. I can't really explain it unless he called his lawyer instead...lol. idk about that one.

Just because you would have personally chosen to handle the situation differently doesn't make her decision on how to handle the situation a poor decision. Whether or not you think knocking on a door hoping for help when stuck in a bad situation is a good or bad idea, I don't think anyone should ever expect that decision to result in having yer face blown off with a shot gun.

And the homeowner not calling the cops isn't "odd"....it's straight f***ed up.

 

[charl_huntress]

I have been in three car accidents in my life. Two were minor and one was sort of serious because of the time of night, but I wasn't severely injured in either of these accidents. I believe if I was ambulatory with the presence of mind to think of seeking help, I still would not have done what she did. I would have done things differently. It would seem too risky to just start knocking on random doors at that time of night. I do think that is poor choice. Nothing is going to change that.

As for the homeowner, the gun and not calling the cops...idk. I just can't believe this person meant to shoot them in the face. It was likely an accidental discharge. Maybe they didn't call the cops because they were scared...idk. I do think they should have, but maybe they just freaked out. I'm not absolving this person of all blame, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't cold-blooded murder.

For a different piece of perspective, I have actually had someone try to break into my house. I was about 14 at the time, but I remember being so scared this person was about to come into my house. I didn't even think of calling the cops. I ran to get a baseball bat from my older sister's room. Strangely, I called my uncle first and he is the one who told me to call the cops.

 

[Hotwire]

I have been in three car accidents in my life. Two were minor and one was sort of serious because of the time of night, but I wasn't severely injured in either of these accidents. I believe if I was ambulatory with the presence of mind to think of seeking help, I still would not have done what she did. I would have done things differently. It would seem too risky to just start knocking on random doors at that time of night. I do think that is poor choice. Nothing is going to change that.

As for the homeowner, the gun and not calling the cops...idk. I just can't believe this person meant to shoot them in the face. It was likely an accidental discharge. Maybe they didn't call the cops because they were scared...idk. I do think they should have, but maybe they just freaked out. I'm not absolving this person of all blame, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't cold-blooded murder.

I love how you're defending the shooter with the "freaked out" line but calling the victim an idiot who made a poor choice. Can't afford her the benefit of the doubt, can you?

 

[charl_huntress]

I love how you're defending the shooter with the "freaked out" line but calling the victim an idiot who made a poor choice. Can't afford her the benefit of the doubt, can you?

I'm confused by her decisions and how she ended up in that situation in the first place. I have more empathy for the homeowner because I can understand how terrifying that sort of situation can be at that time of night. This is why I am extending them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Hotwire]

I'm confused by her decisions and how she ended up in that situation in the first place. I have more empathy for the homeowner because I can understand how terrifying that sort of situation can be at that time of night. This is why I am extending them the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah. I guess the dead don't deserve it. You don't think for a second that maybe, just maybe, the young woman was terrified? Maybe she was scared and confused. She didn't have all of that spiffy training of yours so, she didn't know exactly how to handle the situation. Yet, you treat her like she was somehow supposed to know EXACTLY how to handle the situation and in the same breath, forgive the homeowner for no handling it properly. He's got someone knocking on his door at 2:30 in the morning so, it's okay for him to go down and shoot them in the face with his shotgun and then go back to bed. Her, she's just been through a traumatic accident. She's scared, confused, and in need of help so, she's just supposed to hold tight for several hours in cold and wait for a more appropriate time to seek help.

Do you not see the double standard you're using?

 

[E-Man]

Yeah. I guess the dead don't deserve it. You don't think for a second that maybe, just maybe, the young woman was terrified? Maybe she was scared and confused. She didn't have all of that spiffy training of yours so, she didn't know exactly how to handle the situation. Yet, you treat her like she was somehow supposed to know EXACTLY how to handle the situation and in the same breath, forgive the homeowner for no handling it properly. He's got someone knocking on his door at 2:30 in the morning so, it's okay for him to go down and shoot them in the face with his shotgun and then go back to bed. Her, she's just been through a traumatic accident. She's scared, confused, and in need of help so, she's just supposed to hold tight for several hours in cold and wait for a more appropriate time to seek help.

Do you not see the double standard you're using?

 

[Teelie]

Do you not see the double standard you're using?

If she did, this debate wouldn't still be going on.

 

[charl_huntress]

That gif made me laugh my ass off...lol...lol. I can't stop looking at it.

I do give the girl the benefit of the doubt in the sense that at 19 I also made some stupid choices that could have easily ended my life. I guess for me because I grew up in a not-so-good neighbor where people have been shot for far less, I just can't see that as a choice I would have made. I am perplexed by it.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Off topic but happy veterans day from one vet to another Charl!