Comics Are there 2 histories for Spidey or just one?

[farmernudie]

I guess I thought this was cut and dry, but i am finding out it isn't to everyone.

So....I thought I'd poll and find out how many people think what for the first time.

So, after Marvel not only ended the marriage in Amazing Spider-Man, but also claimed it never happened.....

1.) DO YOU FEEL THERE IS ONE HISTORY WHERE PETE AND MJ SOMEHOW MARRIED YET NEVER MARRIED ALSO?

2.) DO YOU FEEL THEY'VE CREATED TWO HISTORIES, ONE WHERE THEY MARRIED, AND ONE WHERE THEY NEVER DID.


SO which is it, in your opinion, ONE OR TWO TIMELINES/HISTORY now.

Feel free to explain your reasoning why you think there is only one history or why there is two.

 

[Themanofbat]

Where's the poll?

 

[farmernudie]

Sorry, first time i've done this...so a little slow, figuring it out, should be up now.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Of course it's two histories, he was married in one, in another he was never married....unless of course something "back to the futurish" happened to my pre-omd comics and....wait here............









*whew* nope...two histories

Of course you're asking a guy who still refuses to ackknowledge Sins Past so what the hell do I know

 

[Themanofbat]

I wanna give this some serious thought before I post an answer...

My gut tells me "one", but I want to think about it...

 

[farmernudie]

I am going with the simplest obvious answer, imo, that it is TWO.

I mean, if i never had married MY wife, I'd have an alternate different history, pure and simple.

I hope people can answer this poll based on just facts, and having nothing to do with whether you like it or not sway their answer. Liking it or not has nothing to do with the poll.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Two histories... The REAL history and the Satanic Pocketverse History...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

farmernudie, this is basically like Back to the Future, Part II (is this why they got Bob Gale?). Anyway, everything did happen, Pete & MJ got married, Pete unmasked, Aunt May was shot. Then good ole Doc Mephisto hopped into his DeLorean, hit 88mph and went to the year 1987. A little monkeying around and the timeline split off into an alternate 1987 that we then jump back to 2008. Now in this new timeline, Pete & MJ did not marry and people forgot where they left all the news footage of a certain press conference during the early days of the Super Hero Registration Act.

Um, so I guess that would be two, right?

 

[Donald Thomas]

Aloha,
Very good question. By definition a REBOOT is not the same as a New History. The History of Amazing Spider-Man started in Amazing Fantasy #15( actually those who do chronologies can show where there were some events in the Minus One series of comics that occurred even earlier than that. The reboot does not affect that essential history at all.The reboot does not change when Peter met MJ or anything they did while they dated.Back to the Future is a good analogy.For my money, had they rebooted back to the day Peter asked MJ to marry him and she turned him down, would have been a better starting point for the reboot. Then when you say that everything they did still exists except they weren't married would fit a lot tighter.Of course those issues where they had a honeymoon are out.They just went on a trip togetherActually the reboot means that they lived together as lovers for several years but never married.One history with two MAJOR GAPS in Continuity-The Clone Saga and post OMD.
Spidey rules

 

[Brand]

Aloha,
Very good question. By definition a REBOOT is not the same as a New History. The History of Amazing Spider-Man started in Amazing Fantasy #15( actually those who do chronologies can show where there were some events in the Minus One series of comics that occurred even earlier than that. The reboot does not affect that essential history at all.The reboot does not change when Peter met MJ or anything they did while they dated.Back to the Future is a good analogy.For my money, had they rebooted back to the day Peter asked MJ to marry him and she turned him down, would have been a better starting point for the reboot. Then when you say that everything they did still exists except they weren't married would fit a lot tighter.Of course those issues where they had a honeymoon are out.They just went on a trip togetherActually the reboot means that they lived together as lovers for several years but never married.One history with two MAJOR GAPS in Continuity-The Clone Saga and post OMD.
Spidey rules

The problem is that there is more affected that one can't just wipe away by replacing the word "wife" with "girlfriend." KLH doesn't have the same effect. There are several points surrounding the Black Cat that come out different (her reaction to the marriage--attacking MJ, starting a relationship with Flash, even eventually giving up the chase to respect the newly wed couple). The new timeline can't logically be the same as the old one. It's more like two histories, both with the same origin and deviating at the marriage. There may be a lot of similarities after that point, but they can't be exactly the same.

 

[Donald Thomas]

The problem is that there is more affected that one can't just wipe away by replacing the word "wife" with "girlfriend." KLH doesn't have the same effect. There are several points surrounding the Black Cat that come out different (her reaction to the marriage--attacking MJ, starting a relationship with Flash, even eventually giving up the chase to respect the newly wed couple). The new timeline can't logically be the same as the old one. It's more like two histories, both with the same origin and deviating at the marriage. There may be a lot of similarities after that point, but they can't be exactly the same.

Aloha,
I understand your point. The challenge for Marvel is that the foundation of Marvel comics, Spidey in particular is based upon CONTINUITY. In theory, EVERY Spider-Man comic within the so called 616 Universe is supposed to fit seamlessly into each other. For many years that was true. The Clone Saga was a major stumbling block to this continuity. To this day, I'm not sure if Marvel considers it to have happened or not. It would be so simple for Marvel to state from the start that a particular story IS NOT a part of continuity and then we the fans can just read it without fretting over where does it fit in.I'll still take the Solomon approach-one history with a split.Now if someone other than me would PLEASE read Swing Shift The Director's Cut-Tom Breevort will tell you what Marvel considers the history to be.
Spidey rules

 

[Brand]

Aloha,
I understand your point. The challenge for Marvel is that the foundation of Marvel comics, Spidey in particular is based upon CONTINUITY. In theory, EVERY Spider-Man comic within the so called 616 Universe is supposed to fit seamlessly into each other. For many years that was true. The Clone Saga was a major stumbling block to this continuity. To this day, I'm not sure if Marvel considers it to have happened or not. It would be so simple for Marvel to state from the start that a particular story IS NOT a part of continuity and then we the fans can just read it without fretting over where does it fit in.I'll still take the Solomon approach-one history with a split.Now if someone other than me would PLEASE read Swing Shift The Director's Cut-Tom Breevort will tell you what Marvel considers the history to be.
Spidey rules

Here's a link to a thread where people can read it: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=215030&highlight=Swing+Shift+Director's

I tried reading it when it was first posted but I couldn't make it past the first two pages. That was what gave me the first real idea that my days of reading Spider-Man (at least, the 616 version) were over. I agreed with a little that Brevoort said, but he really missed the mark on a lot of things.

 

[kainedamo]

I posted this in another thread.

What is so hard to understand about this?

There is one timeline where Peter and Mary Jane were married. Which takes place in basically 90% of my collection.

The other timeline is the new timeline - where the marriage doesn't exist.

Timeline 1 - marriage.
Timeline 2 - no marriage.

 

[farmernudie]

I know kainedamo, it seems obvious to me. Even if you go to a more invovled back to the future explanation for it, it is still and alternate history or timeline now.

If they had just ended the marriage, by the devil, it would not be that way, but they not only ended it, they said it NEVER HAPPENED. Key words are right there. That is just one instance where they created an alternate history here with Spidey.

I feel they have DC-ized Spidey big time...and BND/OMD tops any DC continuity smashing event/series in terms in lameness imo.

 

[iloveclones]

I voted one.

To be honest (and this might surprise those I've been arguing with), I don't think it's that straight-forward. farmer and kainedamo both make very good points about why they are separate, but to me, nothing (well, not nothing of course) feels like it's been invalidated. To me, it feels like the same Pete, the same cast, the same history, even knowing that a significant thing (or three) has been changed. That's the best I can do.

 

[farmernudie]

Ok, cool. Thanks for your your vote iloveclones!

 

[Styleshift]

I would vote both. 2 histories.....up until BND. the pre omd stuff no longer exists. no way marriage wouldn't affect interactions. plus there were stories dealing with Harry's death. now I'm waiting for Marvel to tell us what really happened over the last 20 years.

 

[farmernudie]

I hope you don't mind long waits Styleshift.

It's gonna be like a long check out line from heck. I would know too, I've been in some!

 

[Donald Thomas]

Aloha,
Here's another wrinkle in the time line. The Other. The Peter Parker we were introduced to in AF #15 is NOT the same guy that we call Peter Parker today,or is he? So does that make 3 histories?
Spidey rules

 

[farmernudie]

Well, that is an alteration....or DID he actually die and some shmuck take his place...or a skrull....that WOULD deal with the devil?? Who knows.


However, this is the first time where MArvel, in Spider-man, have said that a huge chunk of Pete's actual history (the marriage) never even happened tho, isn't it?

The other can be read as a change or alteration possibly, but OUTRIGHT CLAIMING THAT THE PETER NEVER MARRIED TOTALLY CHANGES HISTORY.

 

[Miken Ayers]

Two. He had to marry MJ in order for the one that says they never married could manifest. Too paradoxish for my tastes.

 

[Miken Ayers]

I would vote both. 2 histories.....up until BND. the pre omd stuff no longer exists. no way marriage wouldn't affect interactions. plus there were stories dealing with Harry's death. now I'm waiting for Marvel to tell us what really happened over the last 20 years.

They'll tell us when those assclowns called the braintrust figures it out...aloha.

 

[farmernudie]

So unless MArvel is trying to trick us by telling us Pete and MJ never married...there is the one history where they did marry, and maybe a parallel one where they never did marry. Or one where they did and then time was altered and the time continuim weaved out from the original point of marriage and created an alternate route where the marriage did NOT happen, yet that road would still run parallel to the oringal road, creating the original path of marriage and now a detour for single people also.

 

[Styleshift]

Aloha,
Here's another wrinkle in the time line. The Other. The Peter Parker we were introduced to in AF #15 is NOT the same guy that we call Peter Parker today,or is he? So does that make 3 histories?
Spidey rules

That would make sense of the unmasking actually.....but one could argue that he did it out of acceptance from the very ppl he wear's the mask for in the same place. =)

As bad as the other was handled. at least it didn't jumble continuity. Great stories add, not take away.....

 

[Styleshift]

I hope you don't mind long waits Styleshift.

It's gonna be like a long check out line from heck. I would know too, I've been in some!

I'm in for the long haul buddy. I won't be supporting Marvel with money but I will be checking up like always...