Comics Wizard #204 Spidey (BND) Debate Article

[kguillou]

The story would have been so much better if Peter had somehow made a deal with God instead of the devil.

 

[imdaly]

The story would have been so much better if Peter had somehow made a deal with God instead of the devil.

So God would have saved Aunt May if they agreed to give up their marriage...an oath they made...to God??

 

[kguillou]

Lol, no no no, i mean like GOd decides to save aunt may for Peter but warns peter that with every action comes a consequence. God's intervening would cause some changes and he warns peter of that but peter takes the chance anyway and thus we have the BND changes as a result...it's rough i know, but i think it would've been better than the devil dont you think?

 

[imdaly]

Lol, no no no, i mean like GOd decides to save aunt may for Peter but warns peter that with every action comes a consequence. God's intervening would cause some changes and he warns peter of that but peter takes the chance anyway and thus we have the BND changes as a result...it's rough i know, but i think it would've been better than the devil dont you think?

I admire and appreciate your creativity. But I really don't see how it would be any more plausable to have God be the one to do this, seeing as how the sanctity of marriage is something very very sacred to God. I just don't see him backing Peter out of his holy promise to God himself by removing the marriage.

But again. Not going to knock you down just for thinking outside the box.

 

[Rambo, John J]

Are you currently writing any independant comics?

Heh... No, just my own webcomic and my 'fictional' diary of course. The link for which is in my signature if you're bored and decide one day to read about the exploits of an Ireland based teenage superhero...

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

No God please. The very thought of a representation of a Judeo-Christian God altering Spider-Man's fictional timeline makes me queasy. And I'm not even religious, I'm agnostic. But it just seems wrong and demeaning to those who are.

At least with Mephisto, he's not really the Devil, but a demon.

 

[shinlyle]

No God please. The very thought of a representation of a Judeo-Christian God altering Spider-Man's fictional timeline makes me queasy. And I'm not even religious, I'm agnostic. But it just seems wrong and demeaning to those who are.

At least with Mephisto, he's not really the Devil, but a demon.

As a Christian, I would find God offering a deal to Peter just as offensive as the devil offering one. God has a plan, and that plan was for Aunt May to get shot, and potentially die of a gunshot wound. Is that cruel? No more than a category 4 hurricane obliterating an entire city and leaving people dead or homeless.

So, why would God come to Peter Parker, above everyone else suffering on the planet, and heal his Aunt to ease his guilt? Come on!

Also, Peter talked with God, and God told him to let her go. People die. It wa the last issue of Sensational Spider-Man by Roberto Aguire-Sacasa. An awesome issue, too.

 

[bryanss3]

Well the fact that he doesn't remember the deal with Mephisto has something to do with it....

he remembers enough to acknowledge the reason why no one knows who he is now

 

[Themanofbat]

he remembers enough to acknowledge the reason why no one knows who he is now

Obviously, because he did something with somebody else, possibly Loki and/or Dr.Strange, to make everybody forget.

 

[Venom 1988]

he remembers enough to acknowledge the reason why no one knows who he is now

He was acknowledging something else that has erased everyone's memory, which has yet to be revealed.

 

[bryanss3]

oh really what issue was that part of the story in.... Layla Miller could fix this she knows stuff.

 

[Venom 1988]

Like part one of NWTD

Its been pretty much confirmed in interviews that something else cause the memory wipe and not Mephisto

 

[Themanofbat]

oh really what issue was that part of the story in....

Like part one of NWTD

Its been pretty much confirmed in interviews that something else cause the memory wipe and not Mephisto

It was in ASM #569... which was part 2.

 

[farmernudie]

The thing is....why make a deal with the devil, and throw your marriage under the bus to him, just to deal with someone else ALSO??

I hope Marvel doesn't get into some EVEN BIGGER convoluted mess in trying to downplay the deal he made with the devil to say he also made SECRET deals with Loki, Strange, Buddha and/or the Easter Bunny too.

I mean, it is already a mess, and trying to explain the devil deal away, now that fans are angered with it, by saying he had SECRET BONUS DEALS is just worse.

It cheapens Aunt MAy too, since the devil deal AND/OR any SECRET DEALS were all supposedly to escape his GUILT about her, not because he loved her, or respected HER WISHES, or GODS.

IF marvel wants to continue with Alternate Spider-Man 3X and the world it created....then i suggest they distant themselves from ANYTHING related to this actual reboot and keep playing PRETEND that any of it happened and NEVER answer anything, since they've not, at this point.

"Revisiting a mess is always still the same mess", my grandpa used to say.

 

[Styleshift]

The thing is....why make a deal with the devil, and throw your marriage under the bus to him, just to deal with someone else ALSO??

I hope Marvel doesn't get into some EVEN BIGGER convoluted mess in trying to downplay the deal he made with the devil to say he also made SECRET deals with Loki, Strange, Buddha and/or the Easter Bunny too.

I mean, it is already a mess, and trying to explain the devil deal away, now that fans are angered with it, by saying he had SECRET BONUS DEALS is just worse.

It cheapens Aunt MAy too, since the devil deal AND/OR any SECRET DEALS were all supposedly to escape his GUILT about her, not because he loved her, or respected HER WISHES, or GODS.

IF marvel wants to continue with Alternate Spider-Man 3X and the world it created....then i suggest they distant themselves from ANYTHING related to this actual reboot and keep playing PRETEND that any of it happened and NEVER answer anything, since they've not, at this point.

"Revisiting a mess is always still the same mess", my grandpa used to say.

To be honest I think One More day has NOTHING to do with the remasking.
I think that OMD only has to do with, Peter not remembering he was married just to bring Aunt May back from her terminal condition and MAYBE Harry's sudden return. (although that may be something else as well.)

One huge mistake would be to completely ignore the ramifications of the deal that was made. Look at Ghost Rider.

I think the remasking is something else totally, remember theres a 3 month gap, between OMD/BND that they choose to skip. I honestly believe that they should go back and mention the marriage and give it a MUCH BETTER SEND OFF. If they are REALLY destined to make Spider-man single forever. 20 years of Marriage means it had fans.

 

[farmernudie]

Even though i detest this reboot HIGHLY...i am kinda on the side of the fans of the reboot here, in some odd way.

I am just saying, they should NOT revisit the foundation of this entire reboot in any way.

Those that like the reboot, will like it any way.

Answering questions to try and make sense of a poorly contrived reboot, is only going to create more questions, and probably create MORE blunders for those whom do not like the reboot already, like myself...well, it's only gonna give the detractors more ammo basically is what i'm saying.

So, again, if i were giving out advice unbiased to MArvel related to spider-man, i'd say go forward with your reboot and do not in ANY way revisit the mess and/or the deal with the devil. Do not come out with more secret deals to try and overshadow the devil deal. Do not try to explain the "magic". Do not joke or hint or prod anything related to any of the crap that started this. Move on and try to make it work without spending time in the mud puddles trying to make it crystal clear. That is their best chance.

Again, i think this reboot is doomed to failure, and while i personally hope they do try to explain this mess, because i think it'll make it worse....on the flip side,...i think they should spend as little time possible trying too hard to give the reboot some sort of "depth or greater meaning". It was a turd of reboot. Marvel needs to flush it and not revisit it in any way.

With the Clone Saga, instead of fixing it, they spent EONS swimming around in the toilet with it, trying to tweak it to high heaven, which only made it worse and worse, and took forever to boot.

MArvel said they had stories they've ALWAYS WANTED TO TELL and couldn't.

WELL....TELL THEM ALREADY! Don't spend any more time trying to make sense of your deals, and the new alternate history...literally. Just my opinion on it...

 

[Themanofbat]

I like the idea that they're going to examine stuff like why Harry's back and how he really made everybody forget his identity...

It takes away from the "magical reboot" and makes it all a part of continuity...

 

[Styleshift]

Even though i detest this reboot HIGHLY...i am kinda on the side of the fans of the reboot here, in some odd way.

I am just saying, they should NOT revisit the foundation of this entire reboot in any way.

Those that like the reboot, will like it any way.

Answering questions to try and make sense of a poorly contrived reboot, is only going to create more questions, and probably create MORE blunders for those whom do not like the reboot already, like myself...well, it's only gonna give the detractors more ammo basically is what i'm saying.

So, again, if i were giving out advice unbiased to MArvel related to spider-man, i'd say go forward with your reboot and do not in ANY way revisit the mess and/or the deal with the devil. Do not come out with more secret deals to try and overshadow the devil deal. Do not try to explain the "magic". Do not joke or hint or prod anything related to any of the crap that started this. Move on and try to make it work without spending time in the mud puddles trying to make it crystal clear. That is their best chance.

Again, i think this reboot is doomed to failure, and while i personally hope they do try to explain this mess, because i think it'll make it worse....on the flip side,...i think they should spend as little time possible trying too hard to give the reboot some sort of "depth or greater meaning". It was a turd of reboot. Marvel needs to flush it and not revisit it in any way.

With the Clone Saga, instead of fixing it, they spent EONS swimming around in the toilet with it, trying to tweak it to high heaven, which only made it worse and worse, and took forever to boot.

MArvel said they had stories they've ALWAYS WANTED TO TELL and couldn't.

WELL....TELL THEM ALREADY! Don't spend any more time trying to make sense of your deals, and the new alternate history...literally. Just my opinion on it...

The only thing a single Spider-man obviously can't do is date and sleep with random women. He's already had a roommate while in college and married. He's been down on his luck many times while married. other than being with different women I don't see anything they are or can do differently.

As for leaving The secrets behind BND alone, I agree it is HIGHLY annoying when they give little nods to it. When I picked up NWTD part 2 there were two mentions of Peter's remasking. One being norman not knowing who he is any longer and the second Ben Urich saying something about you cant use a "magic wand to make everyone forget who you are" and Peter agreeing Nervously.

Stuff like that gets on my nerves...it only reminded me that it had been about 8 months since OMD and all of its secrets. What kills me the most is that most of these secrets probably won't be that interesting when they are revealed....

I'm not an impatient fan, but this time I want to know what all the fuss is about and if they can make what seems to be convoluted make sense.

 

[imdaly]

The thing is....why make a deal with the devil, and throw your marriage under the bus to him, just to deal with someone else ALSO??

I hope Marvel doesn't get into some EVEN BIGGER convoluted mess in trying to downplay the deal he made with the devil to say he also made SECRET deals with Loki, Strange, Buddha and/or the Easter Bunny too.

Since we don't have all the details yet, we can't know for sure.

BUT

I'd venture a guess that what Mephisto did was more of a nudge of sorts that set into motion the events that would lead all of these changes to happen via more "natural", "logical", and/or "non-devilish" means. Rather than him making the changes himself, he's made sure that something happens that causes these changes to occur in ways that would lead to everyone in the world wondering WHY they don't know Peter is Spider-Man anymore...or WHY Harry is alive again...etc.

 

[RAMORE]

I've never actually seen any Star Wars movies so the title really doesn't interest me much...(am I going to be shunned for admitting that?)

Yes...you are dead to me Norman...

 

[RAMORE]

This is how it should have ended someone posted this in a what if thread:

What If... One Last Day

As Peter and MJ stood before Mephisto their love for each other being weighed against their love for Aunt May, their pain swirling around them almost palpably. "I have to..." Peter began to whisper to MJ.

"STOP!" Pleaded a familiar voice. Peter turned to see two women. One in a dark dress with her face veiled, the other was Aunt May in a hospital gown. "Peter, you have to stop this. I beg you not even to consider it."

"Silence Interlopers!" barked Mephisto harshly, sending a wave of energy at the Aunt May.

the veiled woman held up a hand and the energy broke against it impotently as a gentle wave. "You, vile-one," she said quietly, but with resounding power. "Are the one who shall be silent."

Mephisto staggered by, seemingly in shock, but regained his composure quickly.

Aunt May went quickly to two of her favorite people in the world. "You have to stop this Peter," she begged her nephew. "I love you so much, and it's my time."

"No," Peter sobbed. "It can't be. this is my fault, that bullet was meant for me."

"Do you think I care?" she asked. "Peter, nearly your whole life, I have loved you like a son. Don't you think I would have leapt in front of that bullet had I known about it? I am happy I was able to save your life, even if inadvertantly."

Peter waivered.

"This isn't the way I wanted to go," the older woman admitted. "But it is a good way. I get to go knowing that my Nephew is a hero. That he will be looked after." She stroked MJ's face matronly. "My only regret is that Edwin will suffer, but I'm ready. I'm ready to be with Ben."

Peter fell to his knees. "I know this hurts," Aunt May spoke gently, holding her nephew. "But this too shall pass. Don't let your love for me be used by this agent of Hell."

Mephisto looked flattered for a moment.

"No," Peter whispered. He turned his face toward Mephisto. "NO!" He barked.

"Damn you," he said, not to Peter, but to the veiled woman.

"You should have known not to interfere in my balliwick," she reprimanded him. "The humans are limited by mortal scope and can be forgiven. You do not have that same luxury. Attempt again, and you shall pay most dearly."

Mephisto dissappaited insolently and they were left in their hotel room with Aunt May and the Veiled woman. "I have to go now, Peter," May said.

"Spider," the veiled woman spoke. "What is your calling?"

"What?" he asked, confused by her abrupt shift in topic.

"You have done many things with your life, what felt most natural to you?"

Peter though... not photography, not fighting, not even research felt as natural as... "Teaching," he spoke. "But my face is known, I can't teach anymore."

"Do you not know some children who would benifit from a Teacher and a Super-Hero?"

a week later...

the restaurant was elegent, the teenagers (and Molly) sitting around it were not. they bickered and squabbled. and they met with their contact... the Kingpin. He was only moments into his speech when he was interrupted by a knock on the window behind them. "Hey Chubby," Spider-Man called. "You know you can't eat the children, right?"

WOW this is so freaking good this is how it should have been Damn you Joey Q!!

 

[Miken Ayers]

I like the idea that they're going to examine stuff like why Harry's back and how he really made everybody forget his identity...

It takes away from the "magical reboot" and makes it all a part of continuity...

Or they're false memories to explain what happened in place of the deal with the devil. Just like in DC where no one remembered Crisis and they gave flashback stories to explain away Pre Crisis stories.

 

[kguillou]

Originally Posted by Zoken
What If... One Last Day

As Peter and MJ stood before Mephisto their love for each other being weighed against their love for Aunt May, their pain swirling around them almost palpably. "I have to..." Peter began to whisper to MJ.

"STOP!" Pleaded a familiar voice. Peter turned to see two women. One in a dark dress with her face veiled, the other was Aunt May in a hospital gown. "Peter, you have to stop this. I beg you not even to consider it."

"Silence Interlopers!" barked Mephisto harshly, sending a wave of energy at the Aunt May.

the veiled woman held up a hand and the energy broke against it impotently as a gentle wave. "You, vile-one," she said quietly, but with resounding power. "Are the one who shall be silent."

Mephisto staggered by, seemingly in shock, but regained his composure quickly.

Aunt May went quickly to two of her favorite people in the world. "You have to stop this Peter," she begged her nephew. "I love you so much, and it's my time."

"No," Peter sobbed. "It can't be. this is my fault, that bullet was meant for me."

"Do you think I care?" she asked. "Peter, nearly your whole life, I have loved you like a son. Don't you think I would have leapt in front of that bullet had I known about it? I am happy I was able to save your life, even if inadvertantly."

Peter waivered.

"This isn't the way I wanted to go," the older woman admitted. "But it is a good way. I get to go knowing that my Nephew is a hero. That he will be looked after." She stroked MJ's face matronly. "My only regret is that Edwin will suffer, but I'm ready. I'm ready to be with Ben."

Peter fell to his knees. "I know this hurts," Aunt May spoke gently, holding her nephew. "But this too shall pass. Don't let your love for me be used by this agent of Hell."

Mephisto looked flattered for a moment.

"No," Peter whispered. He turned his face toward Mephisto. "NO!" He barked.

"Damn you," he said, not to Peter, but to the veiled woman.

"You should have known not to interfere in my balliwick," she reprimanded him. "The humans are limited by mortal scope and can be forgiven. You do not have that same luxury. Attempt again, and you shall pay most dearly."

Mephisto dissappaited insolently and they were left in their hotel room with Aunt May and the Veiled woman. "I have to go now, Peter," May said.

"Spider," the veiled woman spoke. "What is your calling?"

"What?" he asked, confused by her abrupt shift in topic.

"You have done many things with your life, what felt most natural to you?"

Peter though... not photography, not fighting, not even research felt as natural as... "Teaching," he spoke. "But my face is known, I can't teach anymore."

"Do you not know some children who would benifit from a Teacher and a Super-Hero?"

a week later...

the restaurant was elegent, the teenagers (and Molly) sitting around it were not. they bickered and squabbled. and they met with their contact... the Kingpin. He was only moments into his speech when he was interrupted by a knock on the window behind them. "Hey Chubby," Spider-Man called. "You know you can't eat the children, right?"

Wow, this is really well-written, this is definitely how OMD should have ended, with Peter defying evil instead of giving in to it. Is there more to this post? It seems unfinished...?

 

[ScottishFogg]

. . . oh . . . wow . . . that is REALLY good . . .

 

[Miken Ayers]

Does noone remember the remasking WAS part of the deal? Mary Jane said saving May wasn't enough due to Peter being public. So any flashbacks dealing with the mindwipe are exactly like post retcon explainations for newcomers and oldtimers alike. When Joe was considering how to go about this he said a DC style retcon was out of the question. Oops!

The longer they let BND drag the deeper they're digging themselves.