Are you FOR or AGAINST the Minutemen?

[Mr Sparkle]

on the PBS show "Now", they had an interview with a doctor who was proud to say that it took him 6 years to LEGALLY imigrate to America and that the thing that kept him going was the fact that he studied about America and loved the concept behind it.

He said he was pissed that he's a doctor, with something substantial to offer, and it took him 6 years, and yet there are millions of people with nothing substantial to offer who just waltz in. I agree with him.

yeah, I really empathize with a guy that had the money and education to study medicine and have a lucrative career in his own country comparing his plight with poor uneducated people, that either go to the US or starve.

seriously, I'm tearing up here, poor guy.

 

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

you guys should watch the 30 days episode where that cuban-american minute man stay with an illegal mexican family for 30 days...really powerful stuff. its ashame that this society thinks so low of illegal immigrants. In the show, the guy goes to Mexico where the family lived and they litereally lived in a broken down house..it wasnt even a house it was a foundation with one wall and the nearest water was a black swamp nearby..so sad.

I saw it but did you see what the minuteman guy said after that? Like anything else in "reality" tv, nothing is exactly how it seems.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

yeah, I really empathize with a guy that had the money and education to study medicine comparing his plight with poor uneducated people, that either go to the US or starve.

seriously, I'm tearing up here, poor guy.

Are you aware of the fact that there are underpriveleged people, from broken homes, with congenital defects, that DECIDE to work to improve their lives.......that you can't just hear that a man is CURRENTLY a doctor, and assume that he's Ricky Schroder?

Seriously dude, I don't care if you were born in Chiapas, Oaxaca or Boise Idaho, I have little respect for stupid people and even less for lazy people.

By defending amoral, egocentric leeches who actively save money up to pay guys who guide them across the border, you're telling smart, conscientious, hard-working, law-abiding, cool people to f*** off.
Why would you want to do that?

There are homeless people on the street right now. There was a homeless guy who got sick of it all and is now an investment banker. There are others who are 1) mentally ill, 2) stupid, 3) lazy......

Sorry, this isn't Utopia, and the guy who has the wherewithall to shave at the YMCA, get a janitorial job, save up, get a dingy little apartment, then get a better job, save up money, go to school, get a degree and eventually get a good job, deserves the good job and the nice clothes and the swell pad, that he's EARNED....other people don't deserve it, and they're either stupid or evil, so, they either languish in poverty and misery, or they turn to crime and try to TAKE things, things that belong to other people.
Illegal imigrants are trying to take things that they haven't earned, therefore they suck ass.

It's weird to me how liberals are all gung ho for evolution, and yet they cringe at the idea of "survival of the fittest".

 

[Majin Boo]

I think the vast majority of minutemen are racists and biggots.
They just plainly don't like mexicans or hispanics, I don't see them doing anything about European Illegal Immigrants, or people coming from Canada.

 

[PLAS]

I think the vast majority of minutemen are racists and biggots.
They just plainly don't like mexicans or hispanics, I don't see them doing anything about European Illegal Immigrants, or people coming from Canada.

they're not brown

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I think the vast majority of minutemen are racists and biggots.
They just plainly don't like mexicans or hispanics, I don't see them doing anything about European Illegal Immigrants, or people coming from Canada.

I agree. I saw an amazing documentary where they followed a little band of them and the alpha male of the group was very outspoken and when they ran across some illegals hiding in bushes, he was talking to them in Spanish in the most venomous, mocking way and you could plainly see that his major concern was not securing the border but instead his disgust for Mexicans.
He took great, adrenalized joy in the fact that he technically had an excuse to lord something over Mexicans as long as he found them in the desert instead of out on the streets.

 

[Duende Verde]

yeah, I really empathize with a guy that had the money and education to study medicine and have a lucrative career in his own country comparing his plight with poor uneducated people, that either go to the US or starve.

seriously, I'm tearing up here, poor guy.

Stupid produce pickers
They should go to PPU (Produce Picker University), that way they would qualified to pick fruit and vegetables in another country.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/business/15679498.htm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/10/05/EDG6PKDUN91.DTL

 

[PLAS]

I agree. I saw an amazing documentary where they followed a little band of them and the alpha male of the group was very outspoken and when they ran across some illegals hiding in bushes, he was talking to them in Spanish in the most venomous, mocking way and you could plainly see that his major concern was not securing the border but instead his disgust for Mexicans.
He took great, adrenalized joy in the fact that he technically had an excuse to lord something over Mexicans as long as he found them in the desert instead of out on the streets.

I bet he beat off to the still fresh memory as soon as he got home

 

[newmexneon]

Dey Took Our Jobs!!!

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Are you aware of the fact that there are underpriveleged people, from broken homes, with congenital defects, that DECIDE to work to improve their lives.......that you can't just hear that a man is CURRENTLY a doctor, and assume that he's Ricky Schroder?

Seriously dude, I don't care if you were born in Chiapas, Oaxaca or Boise Idaho, I have little respect for stupid people and even less for lazy people.

By defending amoral, egocentric leeches who actively save money up to pay guys who guide them across the border, you're telling smart, conscientious, hard-working, law-abiding, cool people to f*** off.
Why would you want to do that?

There are homeless people on the street right now. There was a homeless guy who got sick of it all and is now an investment banker. There are others who are 1) mentally ill, 2) stupid, 3) lazy......

Sorry, this isn't Utopia, and the guy who has the wherewithall to shave at the YMCA, get a janitorial job, save up, get a dingy little apartment, then get a better job, save up money, go to school, get a degree and eventually get a good job, deserves the good job and the nice clothes and the swell pad, that he's EARNED....other people don't deserve it, and they're either stupid or evil, so, they either languish in poverty and misery, or they turn to crime and try to TAKE things, things that belong to other people.
Illegal imigrants are trying to take things that they haven't earned, therefore they suck ass.

It's weird to me how liberals are all gung ho for evolution, and yet they cringe at the idea of "survival of the fittest".

firstly it's odd to me that you seem to find Ricky Schroder so high up the human food chain (perhaps the silver spoons thing) secondly, I have never defended "amoral egocentric leeches" I however, defend the poor people who have no other option than to look for work sometimes 3,000 miles away from their home.
work, honest work, underpayed work.
I also find it odd that apparently both you and this man never realize that if it took a doctor (who again would make a really good living anyway, exceptin Canada *zing*) 6 years to get into the US it's possible that it would take , oh, perhaps more than that ammount for a guy whose skill is:

"I have hands and feet"

but then, silly me.


but in the end, we sort of agree, because see? I don' think anyone ever earns the "right to be exploited", so yeah, they didn't "earn" that per se.


oh, on a final note. please don't say that Illegal Immigrants "take" things, because I don't think that they do, things are given to them (and by things we mean jobs) with an illegal immigrant population that's 90% employed seems that we (you and I , I mean) have vastly different concepts of "evil".

fear the face of evil/lazyness

 

[Wolfwood]

I'm not exactly sure, but Brian Williams had an interesting segment on the 'Minutemen' a few months ago, and one of the things that some of the 'guests' (Party affiliates who were interviewed) mentioned was the imminent reality of a body count.

These guys were armed with rifles, side-arms, and some had semi-automatics; most felt that Bush wasn't trying, so they were going to take the law into their own hands. [I guess the law's only a guideline until it's inconvenient.] From their expressions alone, they didn't look like they'd lose any sleep over collecting a body count.

One of Williams questions dealt with the paralleling of immigration during the early years of this country, and the current situation. I was a little surprised at how direct he was in asking that type of question, and no, it was not well received. Most thought that there was no legitimate comparison.

Personally, I have no strong for or against opinion on this, but just for the purpose of speculation: What's to stop this same group from promoting a 'call to arms' for something else? Now, it's a border patrol issue. Next time, it might be disapproval of local leadership, etc... Considering what the original Minutemen actually stood for, I'm more concerned with the mindset behind these individuals who are labeling themselves as such.

The originals were fighting outrageous taxation and governmental oppression; the current ones are hunting people who are in search of a better life. No, I'm in no way condoning illegal entry into the country, but this seems like an issue for the Official Authorities of our country - as opposed to Jebediah, some whiskey, and the boys with 12 gauges and short fuses.

Ah okay, I see, I thought maybe people had already been shot they way some people were talking.

I know some are armed, but that's also for protection, they are in an area where drug runners do come through after all. However, I know there are quite a few crazies who will take advantage of having their weapons.

Personally, I don't mind the idea of the Minutemen, it's basically like a neighborhood watch. The idea is, is that people are supposed to call and report to the Border Patrol whenever they see someone Illegaly crossing the border. I do recognize the potential for it being abused though, in any organization you do have radicals who take things to an extreme and those people do not represent the original spirit of the Minuteman project.

As for why Mexico and not Canada? I don't know, maybe the vast of illegal immigrants come from Mexico or maybe because the majority of people who founded and support the project live on or near the Mexican border. I don't know.

Really though, why don't we just conquer Mexico? Make it part of the US, I think that would take care of all the problems.

 

[Addendum]

Like being a citizen of the U.S. is an inalienable right that all countries have free access to, but the actual country of the U.S. has no right to have laws regarding immigration.

I have no opinion about the minutemen

 

[blind_fury]

If there was massive immigration into the US from Sweden and Germany something tells me the minutemen would'nt really be opposed to it. They're bigots hiding behind the American flag.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

fear the face of evil/lazyness

Well you left out "stupid". I'm sorry, call me an ass**** but I think in this very ugly, scary, unfun nightmare world of ours, lions chew up gazelles who try to run away, and some people, I don't know if I'd say "deserve", or "they're destined", but whatever the right word is, we can't all be Michael Jordan, we can't all be rich, we can't all be healthy, we can't all be happy and we can't all be wealthy.

Some people are going to be born poor and die poor. Boo Hoo.
I've been poor, I've been homeless.
I got to a point where I got sick enough of it that I busted ass to get my life together, and it took years. And I broke no laws doing it.

I had no special Masonic handshake to grease my White ass's way through to a dreamland where I didn't have to live on 20 cent Top Ramen anymore. And this cruel world does not owe us anything. You can get born pretty, or you can get born with spinobifida.

The amazing documentary I saw "Al Otro Lado", they focused on this dude who was a musician. He wanted to go to America. So he did some jobs for drug dealers, saved up money and paid a guy to guide him across the border.
He lived at his parents house which was W.A.Y. nicer than mine, and in one scene, he's sitting there chopping up piles and piles of some vegetable, for dinner, talking about how hard life is, how there are no jobs.
Sorry, what he meant was "no jobs I like".
Then they talk to a younger acquaintance who is telling them how gross they are to scurry across the border in the dead of night and how he's going to go to school and make something of himself and they all laugh and tell him what a fool he is.
Sorry, the dude was cool, and the other dudes sucked, and that's a huge percentage of who comes over illegally, people who suck. People who are either evil, stupid or lazy.

And please spare me the "Lazy people can't do all that menial labor" thing.
The laziest I ever was was a period where I did the most physical labor.
I'm talking about laziness of character, mental laziness, just going for immediate gratification instead of investing effort and trying to build something out of life.

The same laziness where a person has lived in an English speaking town for 40 years and speaks not ONE word of English.

I'm sorry I'm such an elitest that I'd prefer to have the kid who's interested in getting an education, bettering himself and THEN coming over, legally over a stupid person or a criminal. *shrug*

 

[maxwell's demon]

lucky for you you were born in america.

did you see The Corporation, Wilh?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

lucky for you you were born in america.

Absolutely.

Too bad I wasn't born in Japan.
I would much prefer to live in Japan.
But, I've never worked to learn the language, or to save up enough money, or to do any research or make any contacts, to make it happen.

So, I don't get to live in Japan.

 

[StorminNorman]

Basically as long as these guys do what they say they do "patrol the border and report what they see to the proper athorities (instead of taking the law into their own hands), or even make peaceful citizens arrests - I can't not like these guys.

 

[Erzengel]

Secret secret, Wilh's got a secret.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Well you left out "stupid". I'm sorry, call me an ass**** but I think in this very ugly, scary, unfun nightmare world of ours, lions chew up gazelles who try to run away, and some people, I don't know if I'd say "deserve", or "they're destined", but whatever the right word is, we can't all be Michael Jordan, we can't all be rich, we can't all be healthy, we can't all be happy and we can't all be wealthy.

Some people are going to be born poor and die poor. Boo Hoo.
I've been poor, I've been homeless.
I got to a point where I got sick enough of it that I busted ass to get my life together, and it took years. And I broke no laws doing it.

I had no special Masonic handshake to grease my White ass's way through to a dreamland where I didn't have to live on 20 cent Top Ramen anymore. And this cruel world does not owe us anything. You can get born pretty, or you can get born with spinobifida.

The amazing documentary I saw "Al Otro Lado", they focused on this dude who was a musician. He wanted to go to America. So he did some jobs for drug dealers, saved up money and paid a guy to guide him across the border.
He lived at his parents house which was W.A.Y. nicer than mine, and in one scene, he's sitting there chopping up piles and piles of some vegetable, for dinner, talking about how hard life is, how there are no jobs.
Sorry, what he meant was "no jobs I like".
Then they talk to a younger acquaintance who is telling them how gross they are to scurry across the border in the dead of night and how he's going to go to school and make something of himself and they all laugh and tell him what a fool he is.
Sorry, the dude was cool, and the other dudes sucked, and that's a huge percentage of who comes over illegally, people who suck. People who are either evil, stupid or lazy.

And please spare me the "Lazy people can't do all that menial labor" thing.
The laziest I ever was was a period where I did the most physical labor.
I'm talking about laziness of character, mental laziness, just going for immediate gratification instead of investing effort and trying to build something out of life.

The same laziness where a person has lived in an English speaking town for 40 years and speaks not ONE word of English.

I'm sorry I'm such an elitest that I'd prefer to have the kid who's interested in getting an education, bettering himself and THEN coming over, legally over a stupid person or a criminal. *shrug*

call me cocky, but i'm 100% sure that a very little precentage of them go there to "get rich" and an overwhelmingly high one come here to "prevent starvation"
again, I'm sure that one film you saw totally underscored your already well thought out opinions, I'm sorry to tell you you're wrong because....

well, I live in Mexico.


to me it's not some kickass movie I saw with characters I like or dislike, it's about people who live in towns with no sewer system or electricity sometimes, in their late 20's with zero chance or "making it" outside of trying to get across. because well, it's hard to start school and stuff when school is like 20 miles away and nice degree in architecture is 10 years away and you have children starving NOW.
many of them die in the process of their evil/lazy attempts to get across the border to work their evil/lazy menial jobs. some of them, in fact most of them don't have enough mpney to get people to guide them across (those must be the most evil and selfish of all of them in your view)
funny how your awesome thought process never registers all those people throughout history that have worked like mules to give THEIR children better lives. you just seem think everybody is out to get "wealth" the quickest way possible.
but in the end i was reading through your posts and I noticed a trend.
you keep talking about yourself and your experiences.
see I try to keep my own experiences out of this, because well, I come from a rough neighborhood and my dad worked his ass off untill he died ot give his children a better life, he himself came from a poor family and made a good living without crossing the border.

but this isn't about me, or for that matter you.

I know a lot of people live only for themselves and judge others on their own motivations, but sadly that leads to erroneous conclusions 9 times out of 10.
oh, and like I have said about a million times, I have an increasingly large ammount of american neighbors in the appartment building where I live, and NONE of them speak spanish and we all do our best to help them out when we can, I can't count the times I have helped this older gentleman place his order at the local drugstore.
the thing is I have yet to hear any outrage from anyone...guess we're all too lazy.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

uh, I just wrote a big response to th^t and the Hype broke, and it's gone. So screw that.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

uh, I just wrote a big response to th^t and the Hype broke, and it's gone. So screw that.

you could've pressed the back button

 

[Slipknot]

call me cocky, but i'm 100% sure that a very little precentage of them go there to "get rich" and an overwhelmingly high one come here to "prevent starvation"
again, I'm sure that one film you saw totally underscored your already well thought out opinions, I'm sorry to tell you you're wrong because....

well, I live in Mexico.


to me it's not some kickass movie I saw with characters I like or dislike, it's about people who live in towns with no sewer system or electricity sometimes, in their late 20's with zero chance or "making it" outside of trying to get across. because well, it's hard to start school and stuff when school is like 20 miles away and nice degree in architecture is 10 years away and you have children starving NOW.
many of them die in the process of their evil/lazy attempts to get across the border to work their evil/lazy menial jobs. some of them, in fact most of them don't have enough mpney to get people to guide them across (those must be the most evil and selfish of all of them in your view)
funny how your awesome thought process never registers all those people throughout history that have worked like mules to give THEIR children better lives. you just seem think everybody is out to get "wealth" the quickest way possible.
but in the end i was reading through your posts and I noticed a trend.
you keep talking about yourself and your experiences.
see I try to keep my own experiences out of this, because well, I come from a rough neighborhood and my dad worked his ass off untill he died ot give his children a better life, he himself came from a poor family and made a good living without crossing the border.

but this isn't about me, or for that matter you.

I know a lot of people live only for themselves and judge others on their own motivations, but sadly that leads to erroneous conclusions 9 times out of 10.
oh, and like I have said about a million times, I have an increasingly large ammount of american neighbors in the appartment building where I live, and NONE of them speak spanish and we all do our best to help them out when we can, I can't count the times I have helped this older gentleman place his order at the local drugstore.
the thing is I have yet to hear any outrage from anyone...guess we're all too lazy.

 

[Majin Boo]

you could've pressed the back button

no, what he really means is, you post a well thought out, and he just couldnt put together a valid responde, hence the cheap excuse.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I support them,America needs law and order.Now..more than ever.This should have been done decades ago actually.

 

[maxwell's demon]

no, what he really means is, you post a well thought out, and he just couldnt put together a valid responde, hence the cheap excuse.

eh, i dont really agree with wilhelm here- i mean i agree in principle, but i think he's being unususally naive about it...

...but i don't think he'd go and pull anything like what you're suggesting.