Comics Are you ready for the SECOND COMING of the Mutant Messiah?

[El Bastardo]

thats bc you are only focusing on X-force. There are other X-men who should have been told that their biggest threats were back and plotting to take them out. I listed some examples of several who should have been consulted, informed and brought in. This threat was too big for him to have handled on his own and that was his biggest mistake. He was limited in his knowledge and how to handle the situation which is why he should have brought in others to help. Did he know exactly where Bastion was? No. Did he tell Beast, Nightcrawler, Storm, etc... that Bastion was back and that it might be a good idea for them to find a way to find and stop him from carrying out his plans? Nope. Did he at least warn them that something was brewing? Nope. And looka t where they are now. Beast and Kurt (before he died) were pissed off bc of the secrets and lies and I can only imagine a few more will be once the dust settles

Yes, people are going to be angry. And, again, that's the desired outcome of the current character arc for Cyclops.

I'm focusing only on X-Force because those are the only people who were in the know. I've already stated you cannot argue what you think should have been done, or how you think the narrative should have been written, and then try to make that a basis for an end-all, be-all point of critical discussion.

Cyclops did not inform any of those people, presumably because telling people you know are goody-goods you have a secret death squad running around is a bad idea. That is the truth of the narrative, as we have it. He didn't want people finding out, so he didn't tell anyone. And X-Force didn't know where to find Bastion. Ergo, they could not have offed him or spied on him. As such, they cannot know his capabilities. And since they cannot know his capabilities, Cyclops can not plan according to those capabilities, and so he is effectively blind and stuck playing a game of defense.

Those are the facts and the narrative as presented.

Critical discussion does not stem from saying "I think he's an idiot and if I was writing it here's what I would have done and that's what the writers should have done and then the entire story would have been different and I would have liked it better." That is more akin to throwing a temper-tantrum.

I don't really know any other way to say it.

 

[Havok83]

Yes, people are going to be angry. And, again, that's the desired outcome of the current character arc for Cyclops.

I'm focusing only on X-Force because those are the only people who were in the know. I've already stated you cannot argue what you think should have been done, or how you think the narrative should have been written, and then try to make that a basis for an end-all, be-all point of critical discussion.

I now what happened. I know how things were written and presented. I read X-force. Its been my favorite book, but that doesnt mean IA with or like everything that was done. I wasnt trying to say how Scott should have been written. I didnt mean to imply that Fraction/Yost/Kyle should have portrayed Cyclops exactly how I want them to. Maybe if I still cared about the character, I would have, but he was ruined for me long before any of this even became a factor. Him being written like an idiot or not hasnt done much to alter my opinion of him. I dont have any major issues with the writing bc X-force has been a great read and so far Second Coming has been an enjoyable crossover. With that said it doesnt mean I cant disagree with the choices that were made by the characters and criticize the flaws that I perceived with those flaws

Cyclops did not inform any of those people, presumably because telling people you know are goody-goods you have a secret death squad running around is a bad idea. That is the truth of the narrative, as we have it. He didn't want people finding out, so he didn't tell anyone. And X-Force didn't know where to find Bastion. Ergo, they could not have offed him or spied on him. As such, they cannot know his capabilities. And since they cannot know his capabilities, Cyclops can not plan according to those capabilities, and so he is effectively blind and stuck playing a game of defense.

Maybe he shouldnt have had a secret death squad? Look at who they were killing. Minions and foot soldiers. What he had them do was violent, over the top and most times, completely unneccesary. But really the cons with X-force's operation is an entire different issue that I didnt mean to get into over here.

Those are the facts and the narrative as presented.

Critical discussion does not stem from saying "I think he's an idiot and if I was writing it here's what I would have done and that's what the writers should have done and then the entire story would have been different and I would have liked it better." That is more akin to throwing a temper-tantrum.

I don't really know any other way to say it.

This is a discussion board and we come on here to discuss all aspects of the books and stories, that also includes speculation, opinions on alternate approaches, critical anaylsis of characters, etc... not only whats been written. A temper tantrum would be more of a "I hate this!" without explaining why, offering alternate scenarios or rationalize said train of thought. I thought I had, but apparently I guess not.

 

[El Bastardo]

Fine, fair enough. We're arguing from different beginning points. And that's that.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Scott should have had his own group to consult and strategize with. Xavier, Magneto, Storm, Emma, Beast, Warren, Iceman, Namor, Nightcrawler, etc... Instead he took the sole responsibility of handling this by himself and kept it all a secret from his closest friends and strongest allies. I will never understand why. Why not warn them; allow them an oppurtunity to provide some input, strategize on the best way to handle things and preventing the villians from having a chance to completely blindside them.

I think they're having Scott act so solitary so that when this is all said and done he realizes that he acted more like Xavier than he realized. This will most likely help to repair their "friendship" so Xavier can finally stop being the bad guy

Don't most people prefer to pretend Young X-Men was never published?

I know I do

 

[OutcryX]

Bravo to Havok and Bastardo for providing quite the engaging debate! point-counterpoint. it was like watching a REAL boxing match!

 

[Havok83]

Bravo to Havok and Bastardo for providing quite the engaging debate! point-counterpoint. it was like watching a REAL boxing match!

haha, we try not to disappoint

 

[Squidboy]

I haven't picked up an X-book since X-Factor #50 last year, but I've been following from a distance along the way and while Utopia was a crossover that only really helped to move the X-Men into yet another new base of operations, I think that the lasting effect that Second Coming has needs to be bigger (if not just as strong) as the end of House of M. I'm not saying a mass repowering or extinction of mutants, but there needs to be something huge that the mutant community has to deal with after this event, otherwise it's just a fluff that is only around to charge an extra buck for a few issues here or there. I have to say that the recent death in X-Force was a huge disappointment for me, as my favorite character is no longer around, so I'm hoping the writers at least make it so he didn't die for nothing.

 

[El Bastardo]

Why was it a disappointment?

 

[Exiled Rogue]

Anyone else notice the Bishop sighting in X-Men Legacy? First on the page where they're all looking up. At first I thought it was Sunspot but on a later panel where Rogue is talking to Toad you can see a version of Bishopiin his old costume when he was in Uncanny. Might be something to it.

 

[javi1024]

Anyone else notice the Bishop sighting in X-Men Legacy? First on the page where they're all looking up. At first I thought it was Sunspot but on a later panel where Rogue is talking to Toad you can see a version of Bishopiin his old costume when he was in Uncanny. Might be something to it.

i HIGHLY doubt thats Bishop. hes lost in the timestream (or something like that) hes not gonna be standing around Utopia staring at the sky- especially considering he just spent the last two years trying to kill Hope and she's standing like 50ft away from him. that just classic Land using his light box to make random mutants on the island. the first one is wearing what looks like a New Mutant uniform, and the second one (who you cant see his face) is wearing a jacket Bishop's never worn before. not to say it isnt possible he wouldnt show up in this story, but theyre not gonna bring him back as an obscure background character.

 

[Squidboy]

Why was it a disappointment?

I was disappointed that my favorite character was killed as what would seem to be the mandated shock death that a crossover needs to have nowadays. Obviously Emma or Scott or Logan couldn't die, so the less-appreciated character needs to be thrown under the bus. Is it because he's blue?!

 

[Jake Cassidy]

It was a stupid death, imo. 2 of my favourite characters are gone now. The other being Banshee. If anyone would be perfect to challenge Scott's leadership it'd be Sean.

 

[Squidboy]

It was a stupid death, imo. 2 of my favourite characters are gone now. The other being Banshee. If anyone would be perfect to challenge Scott's leadership it'd be Sean.

That would have been interesting to see, especially with the decisions Scott has made since Sean left the superhero business. He's now with Emma (who Sean has history with, back from their Gen-X days) and he temporarily allowed Mystique (who betrayed Sean and slit his throat) on the team, before she turned the tables on them.

 

[javi1024]

and he temporarily allowed Mystique (who betrayed Sean and slit his throat) on the team, before she turned the tables on them.

what on earth possessed them to believe Mystique had sincerely changed and wanted to join the team...

 

[Manic]

I never quite understood the praise Mike Carey was getting when he first started on X-Men. The man started off with story that had the X-Men openly allowing Sabretooth, Mystique, and one of the Mastermind sisters to join their ranks, yet everyone jumped on Carey's sack. I know Milligan's run was bad, but was it really so bad that it made a bunch of readers ignore the stupid plot points in the next guy's run?

It's like the Austen-Milligan transfer all over again. Everyone was so happy to get rid of Austen that they immediately started praising Milligan's work for about 2 storylines before turning on him.

 

[Squidboy]

I never quite understood the praise Mike Carey was getting when he first started on X-Men. The man started off with story that had the X-Men openly allowing Sabretooth, Mystique, and one of the Mastermind sisters to join their ranks, yet everyone jumped on Carey's sack. I know Milligan's run was bad, but was it really so bad that it made a bunch of readers ignore the stupid plot points in the next guy's run?

It's like the Austen-Milligan transfer all over again. Everyone was so happy to get rid of Austen that they immediately started praising Milligan's work for about 2 storylines before turning on him.

I never read his run on X-Men, but from the Endangered Species and Messiah Complex crossovers I did see of Carey's, I fully understand why he has such a good fanbase. Granted, I am also one of those rare Austen fans (see my member name, haha) so I might not be the best authority, but I do think that Carey is one of the few writers around today who wants to keep continuity close to the core of his stories, as well as try and wrap up past plots as best as he can. He certainly does write his stories off in their own corner of the X-Men universe and have his own original characters and plots that he released on the world (Children of the Vault come to mind), but at the core, he's a writer that lets it known that all the other books out there do exist and that his stories are not immune to what is happening elsewhere.

As for the Sabretooth/Mystique plot, I guess he wanted to revisit the old X-Factor dynamic with those characters in it, as well as allow these characters to sort of bring the story to him. Having supervillains on the team would always cause problems, which makes for some good character moments. Sabretooth's role on the team was definitely meant to have a Wolverine character, without having to shamelessly self-promote Marvel's team mascot. Mystique also made sense, consider Rogue was the team leader and the problems Mystique had caused Rogue in her life (not to mention during Milligan's run, when she infiltrated the school as Foxx).

Magneto has yet again been welcomed into the fold, even though he's done this at least two or three times in the past, only to become their greatest foe again, so the X-Men are always willing to become best friends with their worst enemies, and Carey just used that to his advantage.

 

[Manic]

I say that the Claremontian Magneto is the real* Magneto, and all of the wacky psychos since then have been mischaracterizations. At his core, Magneto is someone the X-Men can count on to help protect the remaining mutants on Earth, and that's all they really need from him right now. The moment they give the man a position of leadership is the moment the writers have gone too far.

On the other hand, Sabretooth is a total psycho who's only looking out for himself. This isn't AOA Sabretooth, here. 616 Creed is a violent nutjob. Mystique is the type of person who may try to do the right thing, but she's a textbook sociopath who doesn't know what the right thing is or when she's gone too far. Lady Mastermind, like Sabretooth, shows no remorse for her actions and was one of the last people the X-Men should've ever trusted. They don't even know her that well as an enemy, let alone as an ally.




If you think picking and choosing my favorite characterization of Magneto is dumb or petty, then make sure you're not a Batman fan before you point that out to be. Batman fans are notorious for picking their favorite version of Batman and ignoring the rest.

 

[sniktsnakt]

I figure anyone who reads comics has to learn to "pick and choose." I know that I, as a Wolverine fan, have chosen to ignore more than a few stories and character twists that have come up over the years.

With how Magneto's character jumps all over the place, he doesn't make any sense unless you ignore parts and focus on others.

 

[Specter313]

​

X-MEN: SECOND COMING - REVELATIONS: BLIND SCIENCE #1


STORY BY Simon Spurrier
ART BY Paul Davidson, Francis Portela
COLORS BY Chris Sotomayor
LETTERS BY Rod Steen
COVER BY Gerald Parel
PUBLISHER: Marvel Comics
COVER PRICE: $3.99
RELEASE DATE: Wed, May 26th, 2010

The X-Men are on the ropes, barely dodging a foe whose master plan has them fighting to survive. Discovering some suspicious activity just off the coast of their refuge, Utopia, the X-Men send their best and brightest to investigate, hoping to discover just what Bastion is plotting. However, the X-Club is in for more than they bargained for: namely, a trap designed just for them. Thrown into a war even worse than the one they’re coming from, the X-Club is left to wonder: How do they get back to the X-Men? And just how do they figure into Bastion’s master plan?

 

[Manic]

An X-Club adventure? I'm sad that it doesn't have Beast, Archangel, or the late doctor who creates his own giant Kaiju, but I'll take it!

 

[Havok83]

An X-Club adventure? I'm sad that it doesn't have Beast, Archangel, or the late doctor who creates his own giant Kaiju, but I'll take it!

basically the interesting people in the group. Psylocke's missing as well. Too bad the story in SC prevents them from being this bc those 3 definetly would have made this more appealing, not to mention would help the sales

 

[Manic]

It still has Madison and Dr. Nemesis, though. I love those two.

 

[Scourge2099]

Are they ever going to explain why Bastion's forces are using magic when they're Christian fundies ? Maybe they think God over looks that kind of thing when it comes to eliminating filthy muties.

 

[javi1024]

Are they ever going to explain why Bastion's forces are using magic when they're Christian fundies ? Maybe they think God over looks that kind of thing when it comes to eliminating filthy muties.

it probably just falls under the category "by any means necessary".

 

[Squidboy]

I think having Bastian and Second Coming on the title will draw in unassuming readers, who think it's a necessary tie-in. Hopefully Psylocke and Warren might cameo within the book to give those readers their money's worth.