Comics Asm#552

[Kirk Langstrom]

Aloha,
I said to myself I wasn't going to respond but here I am so here it goes.If you haven't already, you should check out Swing Shift The Directors Cut. Not the story but the back up story by Breevort. He gives his notes to the writers and artists regarding where he thinks Amazing Spider-Man should go from here on out. Now, I've checked out your link and understand where you are coming from. Here's my point. If you HATE OMD and the entire premise of it, then you are not going to like anything within BND. So when you go to the store and pick up any issues of Amazing Spider-Man, you have already made the decision before you open the first page that you are not going to like what you are reading.Therefore, you are looking for things not to like.We get it.OMD has come and gone. BND is here and even if Joe Q,Steve Wacker & Tom Breevort ALL left Marvel TODAY, BND would still be in place for the forseeable future. There is not going to be a reboot of the reboot.Life goes on-so should you.Drink some beers and move on.This is it.
Spidey rules

I didnt see much discussion on the Swing Shift Director's Cut. I thought the "bible" that Brevoort planned out was pretty cool.

 

[Brand]

In what way is he a bad guy? He's just out of his depth; he doesn't know how to run a newspaper.

He's not necessarily a "bad guy." I'm not comparing him to Mr. Negative or the other villains of BND. However, when we first saw Bennett he came across as someone with a bit of integrity. He also talked about how the DB wouldn't be focused on Spider-Man like the Daily Bugle. His latest showing is a bit of a turnaround from that first appearance.

 

[Donald Thomas]

I didnt see much discussion on the Swing Shift Director's Cut. I thought the "bible" that Brevoort planned out was pretty cool.

Aloha,
I know. We kind of missed that issue on these boards and it was really very insightful. Most of the criticisms that we had about the direction of Spidey were addressed by Breevort in that Bible.The fact that people are talking about a Retro feel is exactly what Breevort wanted to see in this BND.I strongly suggest that folks pick up a copy.
Spidey rules

 

[Themanofbat]

Aloha,
I know. We kind of missed that issue on these boards and it was really very insightful. Most of the criticisms that we had about the direction of Spidey were addressed by Breevort in that Bible.The fact that people are talking about a Retro feel is exactly what Breevort wanted to see in this BND.I strongly suggest that folks pick up a copy.
Spidey rules

Or just read it in the store... t: t: t:

 

[The Lizard]

Well, I had to break down and buy this issue due to the Curt Connors appearance. I'm still wondering if the One More Day retcon also determined that Dr. Connors doesn't know Pete is Spidey any more.

I will say however, that after reading this issue, I find myself tempted to just go with the flow of these "clean slate" Spidey stories and use them as an excuse to ignore the crap that JMS added over the last few years. Spider totem? Stingers in Pete's forearms? Gwen's love child with Norman? Never happened.

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, I had to break down and buy this issue due to the Curt Connors appearance. I'm still wondering if the One More Day retcon also determined that Dr. Connors doesn't know Pete is Spidey any more.

I will say however, that after reading this issue, I find myself tempted to just go with the flow of these "clean slate" Spidey stories and use them as an excuse to ignore the crap that JMS added over the last few years. Spider totem? Stingers in Pete's forearms? Gwen's love child with Norman? Never happened.

At 40 years of age, I like the go with the flow mentaility, because if they end up retconning the retcon, it'll jut make the Spidey books an even bigger mess than the way they were before, and I'd like to read some good stories before I go senile.

Not to mention that I never liked how Connors just "knew" his identity... so this new era of Spider-Man can at least adhere to some old school stuff that should never have been tampered with, like the Dr. Connors knowledge of Spidey's identity.

 

[The Lizard]

At 40 years of age, I like the go with the flow mentaility, because if they end up retconning the retcon, it'll jut make the Spidey books an even bigger mess than the way they were before, and I'd like to read some good stories before I go senile.

Ah, you're still a long way from senility at 40 (I say optimistically, since I'll be staring down the barrel of 40 myself in just a few short years).

Not to mention that I never liked how Connors just "knew" his identity... so this new era of Spider-Man can at least adhere to some old school stuff that should never have been tampered with, like the Dr. Connors knowledge of Spidey's identity.

Yeah, I still haven't forgiven Greg Rucka for rather presumptuously killing off Martha Connors in his otherwise forgettable Spider-Man: Quality of Life mini, or Paul Jenkins for not doing enough research for Spectacular and having Curt know Pete's identity based on a single throwaway line from Rucka's story.

 

[Donald Thomas]

Ah, you're still a long way from senility at 40 (I say optimistically, since I'll be staring down the barrel of 40 myself in just a few short years).



Yeah, I still haven't forgiven Greg Rucka for rather presumptuously killing off Martha Connors in his otherwise forgettable Spider-Man: Quality of Life mini, or Paul Jenkins for not doing enough research for Spectacular and having Curt know Pete's identity based on a single throwaway line from Rucka's story.

Aloha,
I'm glad this point is being brought up. Right, out of no where Connors knew that Peter was Spider-Man. I didn't think that I had missed anything so that was definitely a goof on the editors part. I say editor because even when the writer makes that kind of mistake, the editor is supposed to catch it.So just for the record, within this BND-NO ONE KNOWS Spider-Man's secret identity
Spidey rules

 

[The Lizard]

Aloha,
I'm glad this point is being brought up. Right, out of nowhere Connors knew that Peter was Spider-Man. I didn't think that I had missed anything so that was definitely a goof on the editors part. I say editor because even when the writer makes that kind of mistake, the editor is supposed to catch it.

You're right about the editor's job, but I really think that Marvel went through a period where they just let the writers do what they wanted (particularly in one-shots and limited series) and didn't really give a crap about continuity.

To clarify what happened with Curt Connors knowing Pete was Spidey...

The final issue of Greg Rucka's 2002 Quality of Life mini featured a panel where Curt Connors says "Sorry about before." to Peter Parker. Since that was the first interaction between Pete and Connors in the story, and Connors had not done anything to Peter to apologize for, that one small line didn't really make any sense.
However, if one assumed that Connors was apologizing for the Lizard's previous attack on Spidey, that could explain what Connors said to Pete -- but only if Connors knew Peter was Spider-Man (which up until that point, he didn't).

So Paul Jenkins comes along in 2004, reads that one line from Connors from Quality of Life, assumes that Connors knows Spidey's secret identity, and writes it into his "Lizard's Tale" story in Spectacular v2, #11. Assuming Jenkins is telling the truth about getting the info from Rucka's story, then some of the blame lies with Rucka, but Jenkins really should have done more research, or the editor should have. Rucka's mistake was small and easy to ignore, but there was no getting around Jenkins' portrayal of Connors knowing Pete's secret.

So just for the record, within this BND-NO ONE KNOWS Spider-Man's secret identity

If that's true - yay! Another screw-up retconned away.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

He's not necessarily a "bad guy." I'm not comparing him to Mr. Negative or the other villains of BND. However, when we first saw Bennett he came across as someone with a bit of integrity. He also talked about how the DB wouldn't be focused on Spider-Man like the Daily Bugle. His latest showing is a bit of a turnaround from that first appearance.

When he said he wasn't going to focus on Spidey I think he meant that everytime there was a no villian on the scene he wasn't going to link him to Spidey. Spidey potentially killing five people and with proof like a spider-tracer is legit news.

Plus I think that's the point they're making. Jonah has intergrity, he didn't call Spidey a meanace for decades to boast circulation, he did it because he thought he was.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Yeah, I still haven't forgiven Greg Rucka for rather presumptuously killing off Martha Connors in his otherwise forgettable Spider-Man: Quality of Life mini, or Paul Jenkins for not doing enough research for Spectacular and having Curt know Pete's identity based on a single throwaway line from Rucka's story.

It's better than JMS telling us that the first time MJ found out Peter was Spider-Man she fated thinking about how good sex with him would be.

As any other 15 year old girl would think while her aunts best friend sobs in the living room over her dead husband and her nephew goes out to seek vengence.

Or maybe he just didn't know how MJ found out.

 

[Donald Thomas]

When he said he wasn't going to focus on Spidey I think he meant that everytime there was a no villian on the scene he wasn't going to link him to Spidey. Spidey potentially killing five people and with proof like a spider-tracer is legit news.

Plus I think that's the point they're making. Jonah has intergrity, he didn't call Spidey a meanace for decades to boast circulation, he did it because he thought he was.

Aloha,
I think you'd get a big argument regarding JJJ having integrity . JJJ has Robbie Robertson as his integrity. JJJ would sell his mother out if it increased readership.I still would like folks to read and then discuss the BND bible that Breevort wrote. The idea of Spidey always having an enemy in the media is part of the foundation of Spider-Man.Whether its JJJ or DB, there has got to a major enemy of Spidey within the Media.Only when The Puma owned the Bugle did the negative media coverage of Spidey subside.
Spidey rules

 

[Sloth7d]

Well, I had to break down and buy this issue due to the Curt Connors appearance. I'm still wondering if the One More Day retcon also determined that Dr. Connors doesn't know Pete is Spidey any more.

I will say however, that after reading this issue, I find myself tempted to just go with the flow of these "clean slate" Spidey stories and use them as an excuse to ignore the crap that JMS added over the last few years. Spider totem? Stingers in Pete's forearms? Gwen's love child with Norman? Never happened.

OMD? Never happened.

 

[spider greg]

I went to the comic store, bought it for full price, and read it legally in my bed and loved it. Even though I'm not big on Jiminez's Spidey, his other art was really nice, and I'm enjoying the writing a lot. My only questions are: When did Spidey get back his web shooter, and I thought "the Spot" was dead.
I find it ironic that some people mentioned BND feels like an alternate universe and doesn't feel right, but I feel the exact opposite, Spidey's back on track.
I missed the Hammond reference, Hammond's the main man!

 

[wolvie2020]

You're right about the editor's job, but I really think that Marvel went through a period where they just let the writers do what they wanted (particularly in one-shots and limited series) and didn't really give a crap about continuity.

To clarify what happened with Curt Connors knowing Pete was Spidey...

The final issue of Greg Rucka's 2002 Quality of Life mini featured a panel where Curt Connors says "Sorry about before." to Peter Parker. Since that was the first interaction between Pete and Connors in the story, and Connors had not done anything to Peter to apologize for, that one small line didn't really make any sense.
However, if one assumed that Connors was apologizing for the Lizard's previous attack on Spidey, that could explain what Connors said to Pete -- but only if Connors knew Peter was Spider-Man (which up until that point, he didn't).

So Paul Jenkins comes along in 2004, reads that one line from Connors from Quality of Life, assumes that Connors knows Spidey's secret identity, and writes it into his "Lizard's Tale" story in Spectacular v2, #11. Assuming Jenkins is telling the truth about getting the info from Rucka's story, then some of the blame lies with Rucka, but Jenkins really should have done more research, or the editor should have. Rucka's mistake was small and easy to ignore, but there was no getting around Jenkins' portrayal of Connors knowing Pete's secret.



If that's true - yay! Another screw-up retconned away.

Yeah, JQ many years sgo out and out said 'we're interested in hooking people i with good stories now, and we'll fix the continuity later.' CW was the great big push to tie the MU together.

I do blame the editors, Jenkins, (like plenty of other writers,) claim to be terrible with continuity,references etc. While I believe that it's great to get a writer strongly familiar with Spidey lore, but sometimes that just isn't the case. This is common in various art forms... So yeah, I do blame the editors. It's their jobs to keep an eye on that stuff.

Well, we're going to find out soon RE: the continuity. Accoring to JQ it'll unfold over time. I don't think anyone posted this:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=149363

And the 2nd part:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=149466

On the SP front, much to JMS' dismay, (and much to ours as well,) he was actually mad at the fact that JQ as the last minute changed his mind and decided that they wouldn't undo SP. JMS feels cheated about this, and that he has this hanging over him.

But hey, this is JQ. I wouldn't be surprised if it does get undone.

I do have my contacts in Marvel though, and while I wasn't given full spoilers, the people there at the moment are all in agreement that they are very excitied over all the continuity stuff that'll be added in the next year. Hey, if they think it's good I'll give it a good chance it will be, (I hope al least.)

These are the kind of people that'll freely say if something sucks, or just, 'not for them.'

While the 'undoing,' and OMD was a HUGE point of controversy internally, (E.G. Brian Bendis being openly pro-marriage,) internally Marvel are very psyched BND onwards.

That can only be good! considering the talent/unified front/JQ not writing etc.

 

[Venom 1988]

My only questions are: When did Spidey get back his web shooter

At the end of One More Day

and I thought "the Spot" was dead.

He did die (by Wolverine I believe). He appeared again during Civil War with no explanation and in MODOK's 11 (which btw is a pretty cool story also with Chameleon, Puma and other villains)

 

[The Lizard]

OMD? Never happened.

Yup, I'll go along with that too. Let's just assume this "reset" happened for reasons unknown that have nothing to do with Mephisto, MJ or Joey Q.

 

[Blader5489]

On the SP front, much to JMS' dismay, (and much to ours as well,) he was actually mad at the fact that JQ as the last minute changed his mind and decided that they wouldn't undo SP. JMS feels cheated about this, and that he has this hanging over him.

But hey, this is JQ. I wouldn't be surprised if it does get undone.

I think that's a bit inaccurate. It's not like Quesada told JMS, "You will absolutely not retcon Sins Past. It must remain in continuity!" Rather, JMS' inability to retcon Sins Past was a consequence of him not getting to write OMD the way he wanted.

And frankly, as much as I dislike the idea of Sins Past being a permanent part of the Spider-Man mythos, I think it's a fair trade for being spared the massive retcon that would have been JMS' OMD.

 

[Donald Thomas]

Yup, I'll go along with that too. Let's just assume this "reset" happened for reasons unknown that have nothing to do with Mephisto, MJ or Joey Q.

Aloha,
Given the fact that even the HATERS, respect what Slott is doing, I think it's very easy to forget OMD and move on. I gave an example a long time ago. The Gathering of Five ended volume One of Amazing. It had next to no influence upon volume 2. Mephisoto will likely never appear again in Amazing. If he does, based upon what Marvel has planned for Amazing it won't be for DECADES.Lets also remeber that Steve Wacker and Tom Breevort are the people that we should focus on from here on regarding likes and dislikes of Amazing.Go to my site and check out Limited Series page 5. Check out Swing Shift Directors cut. The retro feel and humor and soap opera style that people are using to described BND, is exactly what Marvel is going for.Not to beat this idea too much longer but, people above Joe Q, wanted this reboot. JoeQ, being the EIC, took it upon himself to take the heat, but from here out it's Wacker ( not WACK HER)and Breevort.
Spidey rules

 

[farmernudie]

Not to beat this idea too much longer but, people above Joe Q, wanted this reboot. JoeQ, being the EIC, took it upon himself to take the heat

Uhhh... you make it sound like Joe was some nice guy who didn't have this desire to reboot spidey comics, and decided to take the heat for some suits.

He has personally talked about it for years, how much he hated the marriage and thought it was a mistake, how he "couldn't sleep well at night thinking about the marriage", and a whole barrage of personal quotes of how he hated the marriage, etc.

KNowing business, while the "suits" do have some major pull...an upper manager also has sway over the suits on how he or she portrays things to them also and can often sway THEIR opinions of how things are going within the company. Joe had a LOT to do with this, don't be foooled on THAT.

 

[wolvie2020]

I think that's a bit inaccurate. It's not like Quesada told JMS, "You will absolutely not retcon Sins Past. It must remain in continuity!" Rather, JMS' inability to retcon Sins Past was a consequence of him not getting to write OMD the way he wanted.

And frankly, as much as I dislike the idea of Sins Past being a permanent part of the Spider-Man mythos, I think it's a fair trade for being spared the massive retcon that would have been JMS' OMD.

While I do agree with you on the whole JMS retcon,(while it made MUCH more sense, all of us fans really would have been cheated,) JQ did specifically state he wanted that to stay in continuity. And JMS did respond with the fact that he was told after it was written that he would be allowed to retcon it, and he was annoyed.

Not in a bitter way though mind you...

All in all, I'm ready to forget all of this if it's true that the continuity fill ins and the storylines over the next year are as good, if not better than BND so far

 

[spider greg]

At the end of One More Day

Sorry, I should've been more specific. One of his webshooters were stolen in the Mr. Negative arc, but in the most recent issue he's clearly using both webshooters.

 

[Blader5489]

Sorry, I should've been more specific. One of his webshooters were stolen in the Mr. Negative arc, but in the most recent issue he's clearly using both webshooters.

He got it back at the end of #548.

 

[spider greg]

He got it back at the end of #548.

That's right. He got it back from the dead body of the mugger, correct? He was low on web fluid in the Menace arc only because of money problems not because of the missing web shooter. Doh! forgot about that.

 

[Ned Leeds]

and the marriage proposal came out of nowhere, but that's a different story.

THANK YOU!

It really did. People always forget, choose to look over it, or just plain never knew, but in context at the time the proposal and subsequent marriage were quickly RUSHED in right after the BIZARRE "conclusion" to the Hobgoblin saga.