Comics ASM 581 the uninspired super lame explanation why Harry Osborn is alive

[bryanss3]

So yeah the explanation for Harry being alive to no surprise is a lame one.

here it is:

Spoiler

So Peter tags along on the car ride with Harry to go visit Liz Allen and Normie. on the way there Harry explains to peter the reason he is alive. Harry tells him the Goblin Serum that killed him caused him to come back to life. When Pete tells him that Spidey told him his dying words were it killed him Harry replies I was high on the serum when I said it and he died and came back from the serum just like his father. It is then shown that Norman Osborn covered up Harry's death with some help from Mysterio who told him he has to make references to Harry's death, visit his Grave basically everything to hide the fact Harry is alive. During Harry's time before he came back he was moved around clinics in Europe being told he had relapsed. His therapists convinced him that his time as the Green Goblin was a drug induced Hallucination. Harry recently started remembering all of this because of seeing his father Norman in the Green Goblin in the NWTD Arc.
Also Harry rebuilt Aunt May's house.
Hopefully the second part of this story tells us when Harry Osborn decided to reveal he was alive and why the Molten Man wants to kill him

 

[farmernudie]

Why did he rebuild her the exact same house, all exactly the same?

Even in Extreme Home Make-Over, they give a gift of a NEW house.

t:

I love how his sister keeps him (molten man) locked up in the celler...

And good Ol' Rehab Harry....after all these years..he should be VERY rehabbed!!!!!!!!

 

[stillanerd]

My initial thoughts about how Harry came back:

Spoiler

I suppose the revelation that Harry actually being rendered unconscious presumably from the Goblin formula rather than dying was expected, as was Norman Osborn, once again, being involved in getting his son out of there--although technically that completely screws up his whole reason for coming back during the Clone Saga.

However, having Mysterio be involved I must admit is a bit unexpected. I would imagine that Dan Slott having Quentin Beck appear in a flashback would suggest that the Spider-Man writers have plans on bringing this character back from the dead sometime down the road. Say, perhaps, reveal that MJ's new boyfriend, Bobby Carr, is actually Beck in disguise and a servant of Mephisto (he did reveal in one of PAD Friendly Neighborhood issues that he was in service to hell, after all) and that this is all part of Mephisto sticking to his deal to keep Peter and MJ separate and not rekindling their love, etc. etc.

But there is something that's bugging me. Even though Harry never died, there still was a "body" and a funeral, courtesy of Norman and Mysterio. So, for about a couple of years Marvel time, at least, everyone pretty much thinks Harry is dead, thus the whole "all the stories still happened" mantra Marvel has been putting out, right? So far, and I'm assuming it will be addressed next issue, we'll be given a glimpse of Harry's "return from the dead" and character's reaction to it via flashback. This suggests that Harry "returned" sometime during the "mysterious gap of missing time," you know, the one that Quesada said happened in-between the last time Peter and MJ were married and when Peter woke up to go to Harry's return from rehab party. Now remember how one of the problems the Civil War event had in that the Superhero Registration Act wasn't clearly defined or written down thus causing confusion for the readers and inconsistency among the tie-ins? Well, I have a similar question:

How long was this f***ing gap of missing time in Spider-Man?

Because during this gap--which includes Peter Parker being inactive as Spidey for three months-- you presumably have Harry's "return from the dead," him falling off the wagon again, divorcing Liz Allen, marrying and divorcing two other times, going back to Europe for rehab, meeting Lily Hollister and dating her long enough for him to get close to her family, and buy the Coffee Bean and start a possible franchise business. If it's too short a time, then it seems highly implausible all this stuff took place, and if it's too long, then it doesn't square up continuity wise with the rest of the Marvel Universe, unless everything moved forward one year and we weren't made aware of it. I would think that Marvel, for the sake of clarity, ought to say just how long this period of "missing time" was rather than just giving some vague generality. Even Lost, with it's periods of "missing time" with their flashbacks and flashforwards, at least gives one an idea of how long a period it has been.

 

[bryanss3]

Nah he'll probably be on LSD by the end of the next issue. I mean what else to you take to forget the Molten Man is trying to kill you.

 

[spiderfan970]

Oy vey....

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Sometimes it's best to just try and enjoy the stories as stand-alone, without thinking about all the continuity issues so much. As a stand-alone issue it was pretty enjoyable for what it was.

If you start thinking about the cockneyed explanation for how Harry came back (and how the house was rebuilt) it rivals the worst, most convoulted day-time soap EVER. Worse than General Hospital! BND accelerated it, but Spidey's ridiculous past has been getting worse even before that. Honestly, either around the end of the clone-saga or when Aunt May came back, Spidey's history as a whole ceased to be something believable even by comic standards, and just became quite silly. If you can get past that, you'll enjoy it. If not....

 

[bryanss3]

totally agree JJJ after I read the explanation I was like thats so stupid they didn't even try. and then I was just like yeah... hopefully in the next issue when they explain Molten Man's hatred for Harry we'll get something crazy. hopefully its not a flashback of him returning and and telling Liz he already met someone new.

 

[Styleshift]

Sometimes it's best to just try and enjoy the stories as stand-alone, without thinking about all the continuity issues so much. As a stand-alone issue it was pretty enjoyable for what it was.

If you start thinking about the cockneyed explanation for how Harry came back (and how the house was rebuilt) it rivals the worst, most convoulted day-time soap EVER. Worse than General Hospital! BND accelerated it, but Spidey's ridiculous past has been getting worse even before that. Honestly, either around the end of the clone-saga or when Aunt May came back, Spidey's history as a whole ceased to be something believable even by comic standards, and just became quite silly. If you can get past that, you'll enjoy it. If not....

I'm not knocking your post JJJ. but when you dip into past-continuity you had better know where your going with it. (you = writers lol) Especially when you have so many readers fretting over it after such a controversial move has been made.

This is the 2nd major reveal of Brand New Day that has bombed story telling wise.

It came off as very lazy to me.
This story could have pulled in more readers and whats even more sad is that Once again stillanerd and I have given these writers WAY too much credit as we did with the Jackpot mystery.

hopefully the next issue will be this issues saving grace.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I'm not knocking your post JJJ. but when you dip into past-continuity you had better know where your going with it. (you = writers lol) Especially when you have so many readers fretting over it after such a controversial move has been made.

This is the 2nd major reveal of Brand New Day that has bombed story telling wise.

It came off as very lazy to me.
This story could have pulled in more readers and whats even more sad is that Once again stillanerd and I have given these writers WAY too much credit as we did with the Jackpot mystery.

hopefully the next issue will be this issues saving grace.

Well, personally continuity doesn't bother me as much as it used to. I'm getting soft in my old age maybe. I guess I've just accepted that it's impossible for a character who's almost half a century old not to have a ridiculous, nonsense history. Spidey is about the same age now as Supes was when he was rebooted by John Byrne in the 80's. He really is getting on in years. I think Slott is a capable writer who was trying to do the best with the cards dealt. Unfortunately he was dealt a very bad hand.

 

[The Joker]

 

[bryanss3]

hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah I love that

 

[Styleshift]

Well, personally continuity doesn't bother me as much as it used to. I'm getting soft in my old age maybe. I guess I've just accepted that it's impossible for a character who's almost half a century old not to have a ridiculous, nonsense history. Spidey is about the same age now as Supes was when he was rebooted by John Byrne in the 80's. He really is getting on in years. I think Slott is a capable writer who was trying to do the best with the cards dealt. Unfortunately he was dealt a very bad hand.

I agree.
What really now bothers me about the reboot/retcon is the fact that they've made it out to be like they've had 100s of gems of stories they couldn't sell because he was married.

So now we have a controversially rebooted Spider-man.
With a very lacking new supporting cast and disappointing story build ups.
I've liked some of the bnd villains but they just aren't memorable.

The fact that they didnt know where they were going with Harry's resurrection really shows in this issue.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

i have to be honest; I really didn't find the explanantion of Harry's ressurection any more lame than any OTHER comic book ressurection previous or current.

Mind you; i'd rather they let sleeping dogs lie, as it were, but in the context of "comic book serials" is Harry's return any more "lame" then say, Dr. Doom or Magneto's, or even Osborn senior's returns?

It worked, i guess.

 

[Themanofbat]

i have to be honest; I really didn't find the explanantion of Harry's ressurection any more lame than any OTHER comic book ressurection previous or current.

Mind you; i'd rather they let sleeping dogs lie, as it were, but in the context of "comic book serials" is Harry's return any more "lame" then say, Dr. Doom or Magneto's, or even Osborn senior's returns?

It worked, i guess.

I agree with the Captain here... it made sense, and it works... a LOT more sense than the typical comic book ressurections, and it doesn't screw up with past continuity... in fact, it plays along with it, making it all that much better, imo.

And to stillanerd, I don't think that Harry had to "divorce" Liz... I think their marriage gets unulled (sic) when one person "dies"... it's why in the issue that Liz was having "insurance problems" because she got a LOT of money from Harry's death, so Harry probably got married a couple of times while in rehab in Europe... probably to some gold diggers who meant nothing, but convinced Harry to marry them... that's really not so unbelievable... again, imo.

Nice to see them mentioning that Aunt May's house DID burn down, meaning they DID move into Avengers Tower, and all the stuff that they said "still happened" apparantly "still happened".

Good issue, nice art... the continuity flaws are starting to fall into place...

 

[bryanss3]

I agree with that but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I understand that in the position they got themselves into, but this is the most generic reason ever that anyone has died and came back in a story. other than that I enjoyed the issue. basically what it kind of teaches us is resurrection are usually bad, too bad the lesson is never learned.

 

[iloveclones]

I was betting myself that no matter what the explanation was, it would be declared, "the lamest thing ever." I win.

 

[Themanofbat]

I agree with that but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I understand that in the position they got themselves into, but this is the most generic reason ever that anyone has died and came back in a story. other than that I enjoyed the issue. basically what it kind of teaches us is resurrection are usually bad, too bad the lesson is never learned.

At least it was a FAR better explanation (with details to boot) than the lame-o Norman Osborn ressurection, which all the newer readers hail as something made of brilliance...



These are comics... people get killed/come back all the time... nothing is really sacred as far as character deaths go, so just be fortunate that at least with Harry, imo, we got a ressurection with fine point details that actually work within the confines of past stories...

Geeeezzz... I feel like I'm in a hen house with a bunch of whiney *****es...

 

[Themanofbat]

I was betting myself that no matter what the explanation was, it would be declared, "the lamest thing ever." I win.

Your No-Prize is in the mail...

 

[farmernudie]

Well.....on the scale of things....i must admit this explanation is not AS lame as the Jackpot one.

But still.

And just because the house still burnt down and got rebuilt, exactly the same, doesn't make the move into Avengers Mansion any better or make sense....or the memories or lack of of the Avengers remembering blurry faced PEter living there, as well as a blurry faced old lady and blurry faced girlfriend or wife or significant other or buddy pal....

 

[Themanofbat]

Well.....on the scale of things....i must admit this explanation is not AS lame as the Jackpot one.

But still.

And just because the house still burnt down and got rebuilt, exactly the same, doesn't make the move into Avengers Mansion any better or make sense....or the memories or lack of of the Avengers remembering blurry faced PEter living there, as well as a blurry faced old lady and blurry faced girlfriend or wife or significant other or buddy pal....

Those are stories waiting to be told... of course, only to be mocked/shredded by the anti-BND crowd...

 

[stillanerd]

I agree with the Captain here... it made sense, and it works... a LOT more sense than the typical comic book ressurections, and it doesn't screw up with past continuity... in fact, it plays along with it, making it all that much better, imo.

And to stillanerd, I don't think that Harry had to "divorce" Liz... I think their marriage gets unulled (sic) when one person "dies"... it's why in the issue that Liz was having "insurance problems" because she got a LOT of money from Harry's death, so Harry probably got married a couple of times while in rehab in Europe... probably to some gold diggers who meant nothing, but convinced Harry to marry them... that's really not so unbelievable... again, imo.

Nice to see them mentioning that Aunt May's house DID burn down, meaning they DID move into Avengers Tower, and all the stuff that they said "still happened" apparantly "still happened".

Good issue, nice art... the continuity flaws are starting to fall into place...

Oh, as far as "resurrections" go, TMOB, I admit it's not the most ridiculous one I've ever come across (that would be Jason Todd coming back to life as a result of Superboy Prime having a temper tantrum). After all, for all practical purposes, it's almost exactly the same as how Norman survived his brush with death. However, it certainly could have been touched on much earlier if that's what Dan Slott finally came up with rather than after 35 or so issues towards year's end. And, like I said before, I still like to know just how long this "missing gap of time" between Peter and MJ's last moments as a married couple and the welcome home party for Harry in issue #545.

As for your idea that Harry and Liz really didn't have to divorce because, technically, Harry was definitely declared dead, that's a really good point. I came across a post on comic boards by Omir Karindu that had links to actual cases involving spouses who are declared dead who then turn up alive and well. Basically, if a spouse is declared dead then the marriage is dissolved, even if the person does turn out to still be alive. So even if Harry did remarry, it wouldn't be considered bigamy on his part because, since he was declared dead (and in this case definitively since there was a body) then both he and Liz would have been free to remarry. I suppose his two other marriages could have happened while he was away "recovering" in Europe, although it would reflect pretty badly on his character knowing that he had a wife and kid and home.

Still makes me wonder, though, how long that gap of missing time though.

 

[bryanss3]

Oh, as far as "resurrections" go, TMOB, I admit it's not the most ridiculous one I've ever come across (that would be Jason Todd coming back to life as a result of Superboy Prime having a temper tantrum).

I wish Jason Todd was still dead. thanks Judd Winick you are one of the worst writers ever

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Maybe the reason why Molten Man wants to kill Harry is cause of the faking death/Liz suffering thing? (nah! that's too obvious...)
As a ressurrection it is not that bad, but it feels rehashed... Another Goblin saved by the Formula... *yawn!* Let's hope that Doc Hamilton stays dead...
If Mysterio is involved in the Harry Conspiracy and it turns out to be Carr as an agent of Mephisto, then MJ's banging a Hellspawn!! (Noo! MJ!!!!)
Nice way to avoid paying me royalties farmie! Blurry faces...

 

[stillanerd]

Oh, by the way, just in case it hasn't sunk in yet that Peter is single:

Spoiler

Peter asks Carlie Cooper (the forensic chick whose the Deb Whitman/Gwen Stacy stand-in) out on a date. Her response?

She tells him no and that she doesn't want to be a "consolation prize." But not before going into a soliloquy about how "different" she and Lily are despite growing up together. That she is the "good" and "reliable" and "better daughter to Bill [Hollister] than his own flesh and blood" and that she's "doing everything she can to see that Bill wins."

If that isn't a major, MAJOR clue that she's Menace, I don't know what is.

Of course, given the fact that Peter asks her out in the first place it light of the upcoming "date issue" from Mark Waid, I have a feeling that, next issue, Carlie will call Peter and "apologize" saying that "I had a lot on my mind and I was under a lot of stress. So, if you're offer to take me out Friday still stands, I'd be happy to accept."

Then, once Carlie gets unmasked as Menace, Peter will go "No! No! It can't be! Not you!" And then Marvel will say "See! See! If Peter was still married to MJ, we wouldn't have been able to have him unknowningly date a goblin-themed supervillain!"

 

[Themanofbat]

Oh, by the way, just in case it hasn't sunk in yet that Peter is single:

Spoiler

Peter asks Carlie Cooper (the forensic chick whose the Deb Whitman/Gwen Stacy stand-in) out on a date. Her response?

She tells him no and that she doesn't want to be a "consolation prize." But not before going into a soliloquy about how "different" she and Lily are despite growing up together. That she is the "good" and "reliable" and "better daughter to Bill [Hollister] than his own flesh and blood" and that she's "doing everything she can to see that Bill wins."

If that isn't a major, MAJOR clue that she's Menace, I don't know what is.

Of course, given the fact that Peter asks her out in the first place it light of the upcoming "date issue" from Mark Waid, I have a feeling that, next issue, Carlie will call Peter and "apologize" saying that "I had a lot on my mind and I was under a lot of stress. So, if you're offer to take me out Friday still stands, I'd be happy to accept."

Then, once Carlie gets unmasked as Menace, Peter will go "No! No! It can't be! Not you!" And then Marvel will say "See! See! If Peter was still married to MJ, we wouldn't have been able to have him unknowningly date a goblin-themed supervillain!"

So in the event that what you speculate is true, what's wrong with that?

As it stands now, I wouldn't have seen that coming...