Comics ASM 581 the uninspired super lame explanation why Harry Osborn is alive

[Spider-Gnome]

Are people really not understanding why Mark is wanting to kill Harry???

I thought it was made pretty clear.

Because of Harry's "death", Liz was able to get TONS of insurance money, which Liz used to make that room in her home to work on the cure for Mark's condition. Now that it's been revealed that Harry never actually died, the insurance company cut off their insurance pay-out, thus cutting off the finances needed to continue the work. So now he's just left to stay locked up in that room where he can keep himself for becoming a threat to Liz and little Normie. Mark hears that Harry is at the house and goes into a fit.

I mean, come on...they literally spelled it out for us.

Yeah, I thought that seemed to be pretty clear. Not to mention the whole Green Goblin thing he put his sister through.

I honestly don't know why everyone is so upset about the revelation on Harry's return. I know I post infequently, so many or most don't know my username, but if you look at my past posts, you'll notice I am quite vocal in my whole hatred of this OMD/BND thing. At least it's not saying Harry's return was Mephisto magic. His return seems to fit in continuity. After all, this is what brought Norman back.

For the record, I am a long time reader of Amazing (from the early '70's) and I actually liked Norman's return to fix up the mess that was Clone Wars and like what they have done with the character since.

Reading this issue, it looks like Marvel is trying to make everything fit in continuity (even stuff fans griped about, like Aunt May's house). I admit I have given Joe Q & Marvel alot of grief, but based on some interviews, I'm going to start seeing if this is going to lead to something (I've said in other posts, I wouldn't mind if this turns into a Lost-type mystery). With this speculation on Mysterio and working for Hell thing, and a certain issue number coming up, maybe this whole thing may actully be address and resolved.

Note, I am still mad at the end of the marriage and the fact Pete did not act responsibly and made a deal with the Devil.

 

[stillanerd]

According to the book itself, Peter did question it many times... off panel.

See, I don't mean to be picky, but, why couldn't we have seen this in an issue earlier this year rather than being told about it? Surely, once Dan Slott figured out how Harry came back, he didn't have to dump everything in one comic?

Yeah, I thought that seemed to be pretty clear. Not to mention the whole Green Goblin thing he put his sister through.

I honestly don't know why everyone is so upset about the revelation on Harry's return. I know I post infequently, so many or most don't know my username, but if you look at my past posts, you'll notice I am quite vocal in my whole hatred of this OMD/BND thing. At least it's not saying Harry's return was Mephisto magic. His return seems to fit in continuity. After all, this is what brought Norman back.

For the record, I am a long time reader of Amazing (from the early '70's) and I actually liked Norman's return to fix up the mess that was Clone Wars and like what they have done with the character since.

Reading this issue, it looks like Marvel is trying to make everything fit in continuity (even stuff fans griped about, like Aunt May's house). I admit I have given Joe Q & Marvel alot of grief, but based on some interviews, I'm going to start seeing if this is going to lead to something (I've said in other posts, I wouldn't mind if this turns into a Lost-type mystery). With this speculation on Mysterio and working for Hell thing, and a certain issue number coming up, maybe this whole thing may actully be address and resolved.

Note, I am still mad at the end of the marriage and the fact Pete did not act responsibly and made a deal with the Devil.

I don't think too many people are upset with how Harry came back but rather the way the braintrust went about in revealing it. Marvel played it out like some big mystery, with even Joe Quesada implying that Harry was brought back as a consequence of Peter and MJ's deal with Mephisto. As we know now, according to Marvel.com's own blog, they really didn't have a story for how Harry had come back yet. Once they did, the official word was that Harry was not brought back because of the deal with Mephisto, which made a number of people correctly guess it had something to do with Harry taking the Goblin formula. It probably would have been better if they had worked this out ahead of time when the decision was finalized to bring Harry back because this "mystery" got dragged out longer than necessary, especially considering the solution they came up with was one that almost everybody figured out ahead of time anyway.

Likewise, there were certain details in this issue which certainly could have been told in earlier issues. A good example is the revelation that it was Harry who rebuilt the Parker house at Forest Hills. Since this detail was probably known about at the start of Brand New Day, this could have easily been revealed almost from the very first arc and it certainly wasn't something that Marvel had to make a "mystery" out of. Heck, the longer they delayed it, the more it felt like a plot hole.

Basically, this issue highlights one of the bigger problems that Brand New Day had since the beginning: they had all these questions that were created as a result of One More Day that went unanswered and yet kept putting off for the sake of telling their "new old school Spider-Man stories." And as a result, they're now playing catch-up and doing info dumping. Granted, it's better late than never, but it makes for pretty shoddy storytelling.

 

[kguillou]

Well said Stillanerd, i think that pretty much sums it up. Marvel thinks its cool to just introduce a whole bunch of out-of-the-blue changes and people will just roll over and take it without any explanations. They're not just doing it with spiderman, they're also doing it with hulk, and war machine. One minute hulk is smart, the next he's back to his dumb self again without explanation. One minute Rhodey is normal, the next he's all of a sudden a cyborg. Whatever happened to transition? But anyway, the point is marvel thinks we're all a bunch of whiners and insists that nothing's changed from the transition from JMS' run to the current one. But these new stories really feel like they have no connection to spidey's past, there's very little references to anything spidey's done within the last 7-8 years, harry's back, Mj's gone, aunt may is good and well, peter seems like he's 5 years younger, nobody knows his identity....its these things that makes BND feel very unconnected with Spidey's history. I mean, gosh, it would be nice to at least have spidey make some references and acknowledge some of the stuff thats happened to him, like have him say " Man, this guy is tough! i haven't received a beating like this since i fought Morlun!", or " This guy reminds me of Ezekiel.", or " God i miss being a teacher, i wonder how my old students are doing?". Any small reference would help! Any small reference to the past 6-7 years would help this book feel like its serialized in spidey's history rather than some dream world. Is that so much to ask?

 

[Themanofbat]

Geezus.... we got a reference to that Charlie "Molten Man Wanna Be" guy from JMS' "Skin Deep" 4 parter...

Is that a small enough reference???

 

[imdaly]

Geezus.... we got a reference to that Charlie "Molten Man Wanna Be" guy from JMS' "Skin Deep" 4 parter...

Is that a small enough reference???

Beat me to it.

 

[farmernudie]

ILC: To make the loyal opposition laugh is always the highest compliment.

YA know what Clones....at the end of the day...i am not heated over this to honest. I've got a wife, a life, etc. I'm a nurse, i see people live, and die, daily. There is stuff mroe serious than Spidey, tho he has been a part of my life, pretty much, the whole time.

We all have our opinions. THat's fine. I can laugh at other people's words if funny and well put. I can acknowledge points. The sad thing is, sometimes i feel i make good points, and others too, but some people on here just want to bash heads, not really SEE what they're saying....even if you don't agree with people in life, sometimes little things you may be able to see at least.

We're all spidey fans, whether we like the new direction or not.

The opinions that make me wince are the non well put ones..that spidey sucks, omd sucks, etc....if you like or hate, or are bleh...TELL US WHY.

But when there is good back and forth debate on here, or joshing...that makes this forum GOOD, entertaining....intelligent...etc...

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

This just dawned on me. When is Peter gonna smack Harry around for the "fake parents" shtick? Forgot-he-was-the-goblin my ass.

 

[iloveclones]

YA know what Clones....at the end of the day...i am not heated over this to honest. I've got a wife, a life, etc. I'm a nurse, i see people live, and die, daily. There is stuff mroe serious than Spidey, tho he has been a part of my life, pretty much, the whole time.

We all have our opinions. THat's fine. I can laugh at other people's words if funny and well put. I can acknowledge points. The sad thing is, sometimes i feel i make good points, and others too, but some people on here just want to bash heads, not really SEE what they're saying....even if you don't agree with people in life, sometimes little things you may be able to see at least.

We're all spidey fans, whether we like the new direction or not.

The opinions that make me wince are the non well put ones..that spidey sucks, omd sucks, etc....if you like or hate, or are bleh...TELL US WHY.

But when there is good back and forth debate on here, or joshing...that makes this forum GOOD, entertaining....intelligent...etc...

True Dat! (wow, I'm way too old to be saying that....)

Comics are where I go to get away from it all. Petty little arguments (which I admit, I get dragged into from time to time) are definately not what I'm looking for. What I really want is to hang out a little with some other comic fans and talk about what's going on.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

True Dat! (wow, I'm way too old to be saying that....)

Comics are where I go to get away from it all. Petty little arguments (which I admit, I get dragged into from time to time) are definately not what I'm looking for. What I really want is to hang out a little with some other comic fans and talk about what's going on.

You should get a myspace page, clones. LOTS of comic fans there!

www.myspace.com/captainstacy

 

[iloveclones]

I would, but I've yet to perfect my MySpace picture (self-held, above head, pointed down, looking away from the camera as if you wish the person taking the picture would not take your picture. In the bedroom. Or bathroom.)

Seriously though, your page looks great. The cursor is wonderful. Maybe one of these days I will. If you show me that TMOB has one, maybe I'll break down.

 

[Sloth7d]

So this was the best explanation they could come up with huh? To be honest, I was expecting something like this, but they still might as well have left it explained as "Mesphito did it" or, I dunno, never revived Harry in the first place. Spider-man has officially stagnated as a character. It just seems so talentless and unimaginative to continue reviving old supporting characters and concepts (Aunt May, Harry Osborn, single Peter Parker, Aunt May is oblivious to Spider-man's secret identity) because you have absolutely no idea what to do with the character.

 

[stillanerd]

Here's a question that's just dawned on me, and maybe some folks can provide a possible answer: what does Norman Osborn gain by letting the world think his son actually died? Obviously, Norman had his reasons for letting Spider-Man think he died after the Gwen Stacy's death, but what advantage does Norman have letting Spider-Man believe Harry died from the experimental Goblin formula? And making the world believe Harry was dead must not have been that important because, a few years later, Harry shows up alive and well for all his friends and loved ones to see. Seriously, I cannot for the life of me think of a possible logical reason for why Norman went through all this trouble to orchestrate this elaborate scheme which includes paying off medical examiners, hiring Mysterio, faking medical records, getting another body to substitute for Harry, paying off psychiatrists, sending Harry to convalesce in European detox clinics, lying in public, and lying in his own diary other than he's nuts.

 

[farmernudie]

I agree Stillanerd...i am not sure what motivation Norman would have to lie and "play along" for that long and keep him hidden and lie in his own diary and play along with people while allthis stuff supposedly happens in HArry's "dead years".

And then after Mephisto's deal altering history and ending the marriage...it is suddenly time for Harry to return and build Aunt May another duplicate house?

Why isn't Peter mad at him at all either?

Where are the logical emotions and character progression of thus emotions based on past?

This stuff, imo, makes the state of spidey comics feel even more REMOVED and disjointed.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I would, but I've yet to perfect my MySpace picture (self-held, above head, pointed down, looking away from the camera as if you wish the person taking the picture would not take your picture. In the bedroom. Or bathroom.)

Seriously though, your page looks great. The cursor is wonderful. Maybe one of these days I will. If you show me that TMOB has one, maybe I'll break down.

You know Sam Ruby has one? We chat there all the time. Also; Our youngest Hype Spidey fan, Spider-ManHero12, also has an excellent page there as well!

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Not to help Marvel, but maybe keeping Harry "dead" was for Norman to keep an ace up his sleeve? The scene with Mysterio points to Norman putting up an act. Maybe we will find out in future issues? Might Marvel actually shock! have a plan for all this?

Oh, my goodness. Am I turning into MOTB or iloveclones?

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Here's a question that's just dawned on me, and maybe some folks can provide a possible answer: what does Norman Osborn gain by letting the world think his son actually died? Obviously, Norman had his reasons for letting Spider-Man think he died after the Gwen Stacy's death, but what advantage does Norman have letting Spider-Man believe Harry died from the experimental Goblin formula? And making the world believe Harry was dead must not have been that important because, a few years later, Harry shows up alive and well for all his friends and loved ones to see. Seriously, I cannot for the life of me think of a possible logical reason for why Norman went through all this trouble to orchestrate this elaborate scheme which includes paying off medical examiners, hiring Mysterio, faking medical records, getting another body to substitute for Harry, paying off psychiatrists, sending Harry to convalesce in European detox clinics, lying in public, and lying in his own diary other than he's nuts.

It's a bit hard to convince the world that you're not the Green Goblin when you have a eye witness who is also your son.

 

[imdaly]

Maybe Norman made a deal with Mephisto.

Harry stays alive, but at the price of him having to keep Harry hidden for a few years and Norman having to play up the death...


...and Harry's marriage is to be taken away.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Maybe Norman made a deal with Mephisto.

Harry stays alive, but at the price of him having to keep Harry hidden for a few years and Norman having to play up the death...


...and Harry's marriage is to be taken away.

If Norman did make a deal with Mephisto around the time of Harry's death, maybe it is tied with the OMD deal. And maybe, like the Clone Saga, they use Norman to fix a very big mess.

 

[stillanerd]

It's a bit hard to convince the world that you're not the Green Goblin when you have a eye witness who is also your son.

That's possible, except for the fact that Norman also arranged it so Harry was brainwashed by his doctors into thinking he was hallucinating as a result of taking drugs. After all, considering that Harry was dressed up in a crazy costume, it would be easy for Norman to explain that Harry, because of his drug use, imagined a lot of things that weren't true. If he was going to fake his son's death, why go through all the trouble to brainwash him and then allow him to later show up alive and well many years later?

 

[bryanss3]

yeah good to know that in Marvel a guy who fakes his own death who's son also fakes his own death is now in charge of basically everything cause he shot a Skrull.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

With Bush and guys like that Illinois governor in office, I wouldn't be surprised if *****ebags like Osborn actually DID ever get that kinda power.

 

[USMC]

This just dawned on me. When is Peter gonna smack Harry around for the "fake parents" shtick? Forgot-he-was-the-goblin my ass.

One of the most emotionally scarring events to ever happen to Peter since the death of Gwen... all orchestrated by Harry Osborn.

By golly, that Peter Parker. Such a forgiving young man. Aunt May would be proud.

 

[farmernudie]

I don't honestly think we're reading about the real Peter PArker.

The one that unmasked, dealt with the devil, the one in this reboot...i think he may be another clone or something.

Maybe the REAL Pete died in the Other. Maybe he is in Europe rehabbing and THIS Pete is another Clone orchestrated by Norman too.

Could be. Really.

 

[bryanss3]

This just dawned on me. When is Peter gonna smack Harry around for the "fake parents" shtick? Forgot-he-was-the-goblin my ass.

Well did that even happen now since no one ever knew Peter was Spider-man. or is it that everyone just forgot with BND, but if they knew prior to the unmasking BND made them forget anyways?

I understand it but it makes no sense

 

[Themanofbat]

Seriously though, your page looks great. The cursor is wonderful. Maybe one of these days I will. If you show me that TMOB has one, maybe I'll break down.

Hahahahahahahahaa.... like THAT will ever happen... t: t: t: