Comics ASM: Spoilers & Theories

Spidey_Zombie

Civilian
Joined
May 4, 2006
Messages
872
Reaction score
1
Points
38
Speculate or post spoilers here?


ASM570_COV_medium.jpg

I kinda think Vin Gonsalez might be the new hero Anti Venom in an upcoming issue of ASM.
 
Couple of my theories:

*Norman Osborn becomes more obessed with capturing Spider-man since he no longer knows his identity but also knows that he still should.

*The Venom symbiote on Gargan leaves him and temporarily bonds with Peter, and realizes that its memories and Peter's don't match. It seeks out Eddie Brock, but is temporarily bonded with Mr. Negative to become Anti-Venom.

*Venom not only relearns Peter Parker is Spider-Man, but he also gains knowledge of what reality used to be like.

*MJ is asked by Robert Carr if she will marry him. After thinking it over because she's still in love with Peter, she tells him yes. However, during their wedding, something will happen to make her realize she's making a big mistake.

*Peter will end up asking Carlie Cooper out in attempt to get over MJ after realizing she is Robert Carr's "mystery girl." This will be a big fracture in his friendship towards Vin.

*Jackpot is MJ but not MJ, and she's Sara Erhet but not Sara Erhet. She is the memory of Peter and MJ's former reality personified, with Peter's powers and intelligence but MJ's personality and appearance transplated into Sara Erhet's body. Sara has no memory of whenever she is Jackpot although she does know she becomes her, and has no idea why she becomes Jackpot. (It's because of Mephisto).

*Dexter Bennet starts printing scandals about Harry, such as his cheating on Liz Allen, his secret mistress, etc., as a means of trying to ruin Bill Hollister's campaign. Lily tries to get Bennet to stop by revealing something he learned just by accident when looking for Peter--that she found one of Peter's spare webshooters and figures that Peter is Spider-Man.

*Dexter Bennet is revealed to have been in cahoots with Menace, using him to help boost circulation of the DB, and (what he believes) is to help the mayoral candidate he's backing win. However, Menace double-crosses him and ends up killing him before he can reveal Spider-Man identity as Peter Parker.

*Menace is captured and unmasked by Spidey during the mayoral election and he's revealed to be...Carlie Cooper. It turns out that she was given access to the Green Goblin tech by Harry, modified it, and used it to influence the outcome of the mayoral election in the hopes that Bill Hollister would win as part of a favor to him and her friend Lily for being a "family" to her after her father died. She also has connections to the Spider-Tracer killer, as it was she who rigged the autopsy reports to make them look like homicide instead of death by natural causes. She was told to do so by Harry.

*The spider-tracer killer is actually a resurrected Quentin Beck. The victims, it turns out, die from the intense illusions he generates. The spider tracers were spare ones the Green Goblin collected and are used in order to attract Spider-Man's attention. It is also revealed that Mysterio has been disguising himself as the man who killed the Spider-Mugger and also as the actor Robert Carr, using elements of both Peter and MJ's life to make himself more attractive to MJ and to keep her away from Peter.

*Of course, Harry is the mastermind behind all this, but that's not all he is. He is actually Mephisto housed in Harry's body. Apparently, because the deal he made with Peter and MJ altered reality, it allowed Mephisto to free himself from the Netherworld, but must be confined to a host body. His abduction of Freak, since he can regenerate anytime after death, he sees as the perfect vessel. Spider-Man was choosen because Mysterio wanted revenge over what he saw as Peter's perfect life. It was Mephisto who secretly influenced Peter's behavior to make him unmask, so as to create a situation where he would have to deal with him. Likewise, Mephisto guessed that MJ would want to remember everything in exchange for removing Peter's identity as Spider-Man from the world, and the catch was that if she told Peter or anyone who knew him the truth, then Peter's soul would belong to him--which is what he was really after, and that almost everything was designed to lead Spider-Man to reunite with MJ so as to make her confess.

*However, Mephisto miscalculated in that his power, while in mortal form, was greatly limited. Also, Jackpot, being that she is Peter and MJ's love personified, will be the key to defeating Mephisto. When "Harry" is gone, Mysterio, no longer having the connection with his master, ends up going insane, losing all memory of what he had done.

*By ASM #600, Peter and MJ, having both remembered what reality used to be, decide this is a second chance and begin the process of rekindling their relationship (although their marriage will not be restored).
 
Wow, Stillanerd, this is really impressive. I think you maybe right with some of these theories, but here are my comments/thoughts

Couple of my theories:

*Norman Osborn becomes more obessed with capturing Spider-man since he no longer knows his identity but also knows that he still should.

I think that this is pretty accurate, Norman is probably Spidr-man's greatest foe, so it makes sense with Norman around, he'd start target Spidey sooner rather than later

*The Venom symbiote on Gargan leaves him and temporarily bonds with Peter, and realizes that its memories and Peter's don't match. It seeks out Eddie Brock, but is temporarily bonded with Mr. Negative to become Anti-Venom.

*Venom not only relearns Peter Parker is Spider-Man, but he also gains knowledge of what reality used to be like.

I think you're giving Marvel far too much credit here. I think they want Venom back as a major Spidey villain but think they are setting up Vin to become Venom. He has all the right credentials - doesn't like spidey, propensity for violence, and while he likes Pete now, he won't as soon as Pete starts dating Carli - who he has a crush on.

*MJ is asked by Robert Carr if she will marry him. After thinking it over because she's still in love with Peter, she tells him yes. However, during their wedding, something will happen to make her realize she's making a big mistake.

This sounds about right

*Peter will end up asking Carlie Cooper out in attempt to get over MJ after realizing she is Robert Carr's "mystery girl." This will be a big fracture in his friendship towards Vin.

This will defintely happen. And I agree with you that Carli will be Menace, albeit maybe a reluctant one. It will cause a massive split in Pete and Vin's relationship, but think this will send down the Venom path

*Jackpot is MJ but not MJ, and she's Sara Erhet but not Sara Erhet. She is the memory of Peter and MJ's former reality personified, with Peter's powers and intelligence but MJ's personality and appearance transplated into Sara Erhet's body. Sara has no memory of whenever she is Jackpot although she does know she becomes her, and has no idea why she becomes Jackpot. (It's because of Mephisto).

Sounds good

*Dexter Bennet starts printing scandals about Harry, such as his cheating on Liz Allen, his secret mistress, etc., as a means of trying to ruin Bill Hollister's campaign. Lily tries to get Bennet to stop by revealing something he learned just by accident when looking for Peter--that she found one of Peter's spare webshooters and figures that Peter is Spider-Man.

This is a really good shout, but I think that as Lily has a crush on Peter she wouldn't expose him - though I think she might find out his secret identity. It is Lily's growing attraction to Peter that sends Harry off the deepend again

*Dexter Bennet is revealed to have been in cahoots with Menace, using him to help boost circulation of the DB, and (what he believes) is to help the mayoral candidate he's backing win. However, Menace double-crosses him and ends up killing him before he can reveal Spider-Man identity as Peter Parker.

If Dexter is made aware of Spidey's secret identity, I don't think it'll be Lily, more likely Vin, who after interaction with the symbiote, finds out about Pete and lets Dexter know. I like the idea of Menace being Carli, and for that reason I can see her killing Dexter to protect Peter - who she is in love with. This is the Lily, Carli, Peter - love triangle - similar to the Gwen, MJ, Peter trangle of years ago.

*Menace is captured and unmasked by Spidey during the mayoral election and he's revealed to be...Carlie Cooper. It turns out that she was given access to the Green Goblin tech by Harry, modified it, and used it to influence the outcome of the mayoral election in the hopes that Bill Hollister would win as part of a favor to him and her friend Lily for being a "family" to her after her father died. She also has connections to the Spider-Tracer killer, as it was she who rigged the autopsy reports to make them look like homicide instead of death by natural causes. She was told to do so by Harry.

I really like this idea, especially the Harry part

*The spider-tracer killer is actually a resurrected Quentin Beck. The victims, it turns out, die from the intense illusions he generates. The spider tracers were spare ones the Green Goblin collected and are used in order to attract Spider-Man's attention. It is also revealed that Mysterio has been disguising himself as the man who killed the Spider-Mugger and also as the actor Robert Carr, using elements of both Peter and MJ's life to make himself more attractive to MJ and to keep her away from Peter.

Not sure about this. I'd prefer to see a ressurrected Chameleon, for this type of story, rather than Mysterio. I'd also rather the spider tracer killer is someone completely new.

*Of course, Harry is the mastermind behind all this, but that's not all he is. He is actually Mephisto housed in Harry's body. Apparently, because the deal he made with Peter and MJ altered reality, it allowed Mephisto to free himself from the Netherworld, but must be confined to a host body. His abduction of Freak, since he can regenerate anytime after death, he sees as the perfect vessel. Spider-Man was choosen because Mysterio wanted revenge over what he saw as Peter's perfect life. It was Mephisto who secretly influenced Peter's behavior to make him unmask, so as to create a situation where he would have to deal with him. Likewise, Mephisto guessed that MJ would want to remember everything in exchange for removing Peter's identity as Spider-Man from the world, and the catch was that if she told Peter or anyone who knew him the truth, then Peter's soul would belong to him--which is what he was really after, and that almost everything was designed to lead Spider-Man to reunite with MJ so as to make her confess.

This is quite a neat idea - it sorts out many issues with the Harry ressurection and explains away why Mephisto made the deal he did with Spidey - which at present seems pretty lame. Plus Mephisto is all about suffering and what better way to make Pete suffer than appear as his previously dead and use this to actively torment.

*However, Mephisto miscalculated in that his power, while in mortal form, was greatly limited. Also, Jackpot, being that she is Peter and MJ's love personified, will be the key to defeating Mephisto. When "Harry" is gone, Mysterio, no longer having the connection with his master, ends up going insane, losing all memory of what he had done.

I like the jackpot theory here, but I'm not sure how this'll actually work.

*By ASM #600, Peter and MJ, having both remembered what reality used to be, decide this is a second chance and begin the process of rekindling their relationship (although their marriage will not be restored).

I don't think we'll even see a rekindling of the relationship here. I think Marvel will want to get them apart a while longer. That way its really difficult for Peter to have any kind real relationship - "just when he thinks he found his new love, he'll think of MJ and his new relationship will breakdown" keeping him single - oh that 'Parker luck'. I fully expect Pete to start a thing with Lily, once Harry is gone and Carli is locked up.
 
Wow, Stillanerd, this is really impressive. I think you maybe right with some of these theories, but here are my comments/thoughts



I think that this is pretty accurate, Norman is probably Spidr-man's greatest foe, so it makes sense with Norman around, he'd start target Spidey sooner rather than later

Obviously. However, the complaint has been (and rightly so) is that Norman no longer knows Spider-Man is Peter Parker. Yet, I think this could, potentially, provide a new angle to the Green Goblin, in that here was a guy who once knew all of Spider-Man's secrets and knowledge of his identity and now that advantage he had has been stripped away from him. Given Norman's penchant for madness, this would actually fuel his obessession to destory Spider-Man, since he now thinks Spider-Man "isn't playing fair" with regards to their secret identities.


I think you're giving Marvel far too much credit here. I think they want Venom back as a major Spidey villain but think they are setting up Vin to become Venom. He has all the right credentials - doesn't like spidey, propensity for violence, and while he likes Pete now, he won't as soon as Pete starts dating Carli - who he has a crush on.

I think that one of the goals of New Ways to Die is to establish Eddie Brock as the one and only Venom, and that the use of Gargan/Venom and Anti-Venom will be part of those steps. Venom's whole shtick is that he knows everything about Spider-Man, even things that Peter may not even realize about himself; hence why I think that Venom will not only relearn that Peter is Spider-Man but that he'll know what Peter used to have--all of course to make him as dangerous as he once was back in the early 90s. However, I'd have to say the idea of Vin Gonzalez becoming the new Venom is an interesting one, and certainly makes for a more interesting host than Eddie Brock or Mac Gargan have.

This sounds about right

Yup. Remember, there was a similar story idea about MJ getting engaged to someone else that Tom Breevort suggested for their new direction for Spider-Man in his Manifesto that was printed in the Swing Shift Director's Cut. Then again, Spider-Man 2 has been their influence.

This will defintely happen. And I agree with you that Carli will be Menace, albeit maybe a reluctant one. It will cause a massive split in Pete and Vin's relationship, but think this will send down the Venom path

Actually, I was kind of envisioning Vin and Lily getting together after all is said and done.

Sounds good

Think Ghost Rider as a celebrity impersonator with a passion for disco.:grin:

This is a really good shout, but I think that as Lily has a crush on Peter she wouldn't expose him - though I think she might find out his secret identity. It is Lily's growing attraction to Peter that sends Harry off the deepend again

I'm not so sure Lily has a crush on Peter so much as she sees him as geek--a cute geek, but a geek nevertheless. Anyway, I'd think that the combination of having her boyfriend Harry berated in the press, being blackmailed by Bennet, and wanting her father's campaign to succeed could make her desperate enough. Likewise, if Menace murders Bennet, then she becomes a suspect because she was the last person to see him alive, she had the motive, and her connection with Harry, although she'd be a red herring.

If Dexter is made aware of Spidey's secret identity, I don't think it'll be Lily, more likely Vin, who after interaction with the symbiote, finds out about Pete and lets Dexter know. I like the idea of Menace being Carli, and for that reason I can see her killing Dexter to protect Peter - who she is in love with. This is the Lily, Carli, Peter - love triangle - similar to the Gwen, MJ, Peter trangle of years ago.

That would be an interesting angle. That instead of the villain exploiting the knowledge she's been given, she kills the source and any evidence he might have because she refuses to believe the man she's fallen in love with is actually one of her enemies. And yeah, I do agree with Marvel aping the classic love triangle of Peter/Gwen/MJ with Peter/Carlie/Lily.

I really like this idea, especially the Harry part

The key to any good murder mystery is when the killer turns out to be the least likely culprit. Harry is far too obvious, and Lily, I think, is being made to look like the prime suspect, but Carlie would be as close to being a "shocker" for the readers than anyone else. And her exposure as Menace would be devestating for both Peter, Vin, AND Lily, not to mention a scandal for both the Hollister campain, Oscorp, and the NYPD. Also, considering how both Carlie and Menace are essentially ciphers for Gwen and Menace respectively, merging the two might give them some depth, not to mention be very ironic.

Not sure about this. I'd prefer to see a ressurrected Chameleon, for this type of story, rather than Mysterio. I'd also rather the spider tracer killer is someone completely new.

If you remember back during the three Mysterios at the school where Peter taught in PAD's Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, you'll remember that Mysterio was telling Miss Ero that he had been brought back from Hell because his bosses were not through with him and that his bosses had plans for Peter. Well, who do we know that could be seen as a "boss" of Hell? Perhaps it's a bit much that he's Robert Carr in disguise (although, remember that Quentin Beck dream was to become a famous actor but his looks prevented him from getting parts, so being a handsome and famous actor with a beautiful woman like MJ as a fiance would be a dream come true for him) or that he's the Spider-Tracer killer. However, I do think that whoever the STK is is intentionally planting spider-tracers not just to frame Spidey but to also get his attention. Remember, Spidey made the spider-tracers for him to track down people, so perhaps the killer is using them for that very reason as a symbolic significance.

This is quite a neat idea - it sorts out many issues with the Harry ressurection and explains away why Mephisto made the deal he did with Spidey - which at present seems pretty lame. Plus Mephisto is all about suffering and what better way to make Pete suffer than appear as his previously dead and use this to actively torment.

Exactly. Joe Q said that Harry explanation for being back was part of the price to pay for dealing with the devil. Odd linkage wouldn't you say? Plus, remember that toasting panel in ASM #545 where Peter's glass is empty because, as Joe Q stated, he lost what he once had and its waiting to be filled. Well whose the one holding the bottle who could essentially fill that glass?

I like the jackpot theory here, but I'm not sure how this'll actually work.

I don't know either. But I do think, given Marvel's emphasis on whether or not she is or is not MJ is part of saying she has a bigger role to play than folks may realize. At least I hope so.

I don't think we'll even see a rekindling of the relationship here. I think Marvel will want to get them apart a while longer. That way its really difficult for Peter to have any kind real relationship - "just when he thinks he found his new love, he'll think of MJ and his new relationship will breakdown" keeping him single - oh that 'Parker luck'. I fully expect Pete to start a thing with Lily, once Harry is gone and Carli is locked up.

Perhaps, but by the time ASM #600 comes around, it will be a full year and a half since Peter and MJ "split" and I think what BND is actually a long arc that began with OMD that's a "love conquers all" story. Mind you, I don't think the marriage will be reinstated, but certainly Peter and MJ will get together again at some point, considering how many folks even outside of comics see her as Spidey's "Lois Lane." I envision that they'll have Peter and MJ in a long-distance relationship after ASM #600. Remember, MJ still has to work out in L.A., and that could play well with the "soap opera" angle, in that Peter wants to spend more time with her in order to rebuild their relationship but distance and women closer to home put a lot of pressure on him. Especially if someone like the Black Cat comes hoping back into his life.
 
Perhaps, but by the time ASM #600 comes around, it will be a full year and a half since Peter and MJ "split" and I think what BND is actually a long arc that began with OMD that's a "love conquers all" story. Mind you, I don't think the marriage will be reinstated, but certainly Peter and MJ will get together again at some point, considering how many folks even outside of comics see her as Spidey's "Lois Lane." I envision that they'll have Peter and MJ in a long-distance relationship after ASM #600. Remember, MJ still has to work out in L.A., and that could play well with the "soap opera" angle, in that Peter wants to spend more time with her in order to rebuild their relationship but distance and women closer to home put a lot of pressure on him. Especially if someone like the Black Cat comes hoping back into his life.

You have interesting theories on using this current OMD mess. And it would be nice if it ends up a "love conquers all" story, and Pete & MJ get back together. And then a long distance type thing, and include a little Black Cat complication, would be a cool new dynamic.

However, I'd like to point out two things. One: Your long distance scenario and stresses could still have been done with a married Pete & MJ. The stresses are classic Spidey! Pete and MJ work through it. Are these writers just unable to see this with a married couple?

Second: It still doesn't take away that Pete & MJ knowingly MADE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL! THAT almost more than anything NEEDS to be retconned!
 
You have interesting theories on using this current OMD mess. And it would be nice if it ends up a "love conquers all" story, and Pete & MJ get back together. And then a long distance type thing, and include a little Black Cat complication, would be a cool new dynamic.

However, I'd like to point out two things. One: Your long distance scenario and stresses could still have been done with a married Pete & MJ. The stresses are classic Spidey! Pete and MJ work through it. Are these writers just unable to see this with a married couple?

Well, I don't believe Marvel, under it's current leadership, is going to want Peter married anytime soon. It's seems pretty obvious that they believe Spider-Man works better as a single character and that, if they could, make him as young as possible. Ultimate Spider-Man is probably the ideal age they want him, but of course they can't do that without doing a hard reboot, hence the half-assed one they did with OMD.

Interestingly enough, the long-distance set-up is similar to how Stan Lee has been using the marriage in his newspaper comic strip. There was a couple of strips in which MJ is out in Hollywood shooting a film and Peter flies out there to spend time with her for his vacation, but of course, he has to be called into action as Spidey when folks like the Vulture show up.

Second: It still doesn't take away that Pete & MJ knowingly MADE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL! THAT almost more than anything NEEDS to be retconned!
No kidding. Even if Peter and MJ do get back together and we learn how everything fits into the new continuity of "they had a relationship but never married" it still doesn't excuse the fact that they made a bargain with the epitome of evil even if it was to save Aunt May. One of the reasons why OMD is such a terrible story to begin with.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"