At least someone is doing something about gas prices

[Kritish]

E85 Ethanol all the way.

 

[War Lord]

The best way to lower gas prices is to reduce the demand for gas.

The best way to reduce the demand for gas is insist that all car companies (foreign or domestic) build a hybrid or non-gas (alcohol, solar, etc.) powered vehicle that costs the same as their cheapest vehicle to buy and that seats at least 2 adults and 2 children under the age of 16.

Why not insist that the car be run by fairy dust as well and last forever.

I don't believe for a minute that car companies and oil companies are holding anything back. They know change is coming and are spending billions of dollars in research figuring out a decent alternative so that their companies can continue to exist when that change does come.

 

[War Lord]

On a semi-related topic, with Hydro costs going up, Hubby and I were discussing what we could do to generate our own electricity.

Photovalic (?sp?) [solar panel] cells on the roof or a wind turbine were our two main options. However trying to find anyone in Toronto who installs either proved to be extremely difficult. We still have no idea what it would cost to install nor what the eventual savings would be.

There is plenty of information on the web.

Start with something small, like a solarized water heater.

If you do start to incorporate solar, you're not going to see your money back for a good 5 or 6 years, but at least your bills will start to fall.s

 

[redmarvel]

Why not insist that the car be run by fairy dust as well and last forever.

I don't believe for a minute that car companies and oil companies are holding anything back. They know change is coming and are spending billions of dollars in research figuring out a decent alternative so that their companies can continue to exist when that change does come.

The technology for a hybrid/alcohol powered car has existed for more than 10 years now. The car companies have not bothered to develop them because they would have to retrofit their production lines to build them and don't want to go through the expense. Like seatbelts, the car companies will not install them until forced to do so. Unfortunatly, since it's not a safety issue, governments and consumer advocacy groups are not insisting on the change.

 

[War Lord]

The technology for a hybrid/alcohol powered car has existed for more than 10 years now. The car companies have not bothered to develop them because they would have to retrofit their production lines to build them and don't want to go through the expense. Like seatbelts, the car companies will not install them until forced to do so. Unfortunatly, since it's not a safety issue, governments and consumer advocacy groups are not insisting on the change.

The technology may have existed, but at what cost?

We could have a carbon-fibre vehicle, which weighs a third of what a conventional vehicle does and where half it's power comes from solar and the other half from electricity if we wanted to do so. However, are you willing to pay a couple hundred grand for it?

There is no free lunch.

 

[redmarvel]

The technology may have existed, but at what cost?

We could have a carbon-fibre vehicle, which weighs a third of what a conventional vehicle does and where half it's power comes from solar and the other half from electricity if we wanted to do so. However, are you willing to pay a couple hundred grand for it?

There is no free lunch.

The cost will always be exhorbitantly high if they are "one off's". It is only when something becomes mass produced that they find cheaper, easier methods of production. The car companies have not been trying to find a cheaper way to build these vehicles, they've only been building the minimum required to meet government standards (yes some governments do require a % of the vehicles to be built to meet certain emissions levels).

 

[sinewave]

Mmmmmmm....namecalling. The one defense you have.

what exactly am i defending when i call her that, oh great and powerful one?

 

[War Lord]

The cost will always be exhorbitantly high if they are "one off's". It is only when something becomes mass produced that they find cheaper, easier methods of production. The car companies have not been trying to find a cheaper way to build these vehicles, they've only been building the minimum required to meet government standards (yes some governments do require a % of the vehicles to be built to meet certain emissions levels).

There is a reason why a company will not mass produce something. It's because, for whatever reason, consumers will not buy it.

GM produced the EV1 for years and supported it at great cost to the company, but they were never able so sell more than a few hundred, because consumers didn't like the fact that they couldn't drive more than 80 miles (or so) and the fact that the battery took too much room. All GM got out of the deal was losing hundreds of millions of dollars.

Popular Mechanics this month compared the pricing of gasoline with all of the other alternatives and gasoline still comes out at cheapest. There is great hope for hydrogen, that by 2011 it might be cheaper to produce hydrogen than gasoline.

 

[sinewave]

regardless of where people stand on alternative forms of energy and government intervention in regards to high oil prices, american citizens and their gluttony have to take some of the blame for the situation we're in. if less people drove around those oversized status symbols they call "sport utility vehicles" that get anywhere from 9-15 mpg and purchased more fuel efficient vehicles we'd be in a much better place. chalk it up to american greed, selfishness and stupidity.

 

[pHat_aL]

hahahahhahahhahaha--what are they doing?





















NOTHING.

 

[redmarvel]

Ahhh, but how safe would a hydrogen powered car be?

Lately GM has designed a number of cars that simply have no STYLE! Consumers want it all, style, speed, practicallity, affordability, safe, etc. The example you gave wasn't practicle for the reasons you gave. That was GM's mistake. They need to work out something that consumers will actually WANT. Yes, it needs to be practicle. Now GM points to that and says "look, we tried"... but how hard did they REALLY try if they didn't research what consumers would actually want and try to meet that need? I think they designed that vehicle to lose.

 

[War Lord]

Ahhh, but how safe would a hydrogen powered car be?

Lately GM has designed a number of cars that simply have no STYLE! Consumers want it all, style, speed, practicallity, affordability, safe, etc. The example you gave wasn't practicle for the reasons you gave. That was GM's mistake. They need to work out something that consumers will actually WANT. Yes, it needs to be practicle. Now GM points to that and says "look, we tried"... but how hard did they REALLY try if they didn't research what consumers would actually want and try to meet that need? I think they designed that vehicle to lose.

Quite safe actually. In a worst case scenario, where there was a crash and the tank ruptured, the hydrogen would simply escape into the atmosphere and join water to become oxygen. No Kaboom.

Why would GM risk losing billions of dollars and risk going out of business to purposely create a vehicle that wouldn't be bought. That doesn't make any business sense. They can only do the best they got with the circumstances before them.

 

[hippie_hunter]

YEAH.....LIKE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ; BUSH IS THE PRIMARY REASON THIS IS HAPPENING TO BEGIN WITH.

I really hope to God that you're joking

 

[hippie_hunter]

We are in another oil crisis and we have two main reasons (Not the only reasons) for that.

1- High demand in a rapidly expanding Chinese economy.

True

2- Instability in the Middle East (Which we have the Bush administration to thank for).

Wrong, the instablility in the Middle East is hardly Bush's fault, he's made it worse, but he is not solely to blame. Nearly every Presidential administration since the Cold War has played a part in f**king up the Middle East. Europe and the United Nations also had a hand it too. Bush isn't solely to blame here.

We also have other reasons:

3. Instability in Nigeria, rebels are blowing up oil pipelines.

4. Russian price gouging, they are selling oil to markets at the prices they want.

5. Hugo Chavez nationalizing oil in Venezuela and souring relations with the United States. He's making oil cheaper in Venezuela but more expensive in the world market.

6. India is also in high demand for oil.

7. the Iranian nuclear crisis.

 

[hippie_hunter]

regardless of where people stand on alternative forms of energy and government intervention in regards to high oil prices, american citizens and their gluttony have to take some of the blame for the situation we're in. if less people drove around those oversized status symbols they call "sport utility vehicles" that get anywhere from 9-15 mpg and purchased more fuel efficient vehicles we'd be in a much better place. chalk it up to american greed, selfishness and stupidity.

BINGO

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Actually BUSH is doing a lot this week to lower gas prices. He recently put a stop on government production of military fuel (so in other words the live off what they have for now). Also he visited three alternative fuel research complexes this week and is putting a great degree of funding and effort into alternative resources.

 

[Matt]

Actually BUSH is doing a lot this week to lower gas prices. He recently put a stop on government production of military fuel (so in other words the live off what they have for now). Also he visited three alternative fuel research complexes this week and is putting a great degree of funding and effort into alternative resources.

To Bush and practically all presidents of the past 30 years...it is unfortunately too little, too late.

This kind of stuff should've started in the 80s...not now.

 

[lazur]

To Bush and practically all presidents of the past 30 years...it is unfortunately too little, too late.

This kind of stuff should've started in the 80s...not now.

Yeah! Bush should do nothing!

 

[Matt]

Yeah! Bush should do nothing!

No one said that and quit being an ash, no one was attacking your precious little president. Now isn't it about time you grab your ankles and get ready for the Republican Party that you so blindly follow to shove it in there?

 

[cass]

No one said that and quit being an ash, no one was attacking your precious little president. Now isn't it about time you grab your ankles and get ready for the Republican Party that you so blindly follow to shove it in there?

Follow your own damn advice. Quit being an ash.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Follow your own damn advice. Quit being an ash.

Yeah I mean its good that Bush is doing something, I applaud him for it. Just for this he is making himself better than the last 30 years of Presidents that you lumped him in with. Government is ALWAYS slow to get to fixing problems or getting on top of things: this shouldn't be news to anyone.

 

[sinewave]

Follow your own damn advice. Quit being an ash.

do you ever do anything aside from swooping in and making snide remarks and then leaving? you never contribute to the conversation, you just butt in and take petty jabs at people.

 

[cass]

do you ever do anything aside from swooping in and making snide remarks and then leaving? you never contribute to the conversation, you just butt in and take petty jabs at people.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[lazur]

No one said that and quit being an ash, no one was attacking your precious little president. Now isn't it about time you grab your ankles and get ready for the Republican Party that you so blindly follow to shove it in there?

Okay, let's follow the discussion, shall we?

You said:

To Bush and practically all presidents of the past 30 years...it is unfortunately too little, too late.

This kind of stuff should've started in the 80s...not now.

I said:

Yeah! Bush should do nothing!

Because you SAID yourself they should do nothing by saying it should have been done before ...not now.

So I'm not following the part where you said "No one said that and quit being an ash". Because you DID say EXACTLY that.

Thanks.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

The whole gas thing pisses me off so much, Exxon reports obscene record profits and then says they need to raise gas prices more. In today's newspaper I read first quarter earnings for Exxon is gonna be in the billions, yet they need to raise prices?!?! Billions of dollars isn't enough, what will make them happy trillions? People can keep on telling me about the supply and demand of fuel, turmoil in the middle east, problems with refineries and I will never believe any of it to be true unless these big oil companies start posting smaller profits. It about greed, plain and simple, big oil is ****ing the US up the @$$, then laughing at us. However, as long as soccer moms keep filling up their SUVs and people buy Hummers to go to the grocery store down the block, big oil will continue to laugh themselves to the bank. Me, I own a car, haven't driven it in a week and the last time I did drive it, I only moved it across the street because the city was cleaning the street and I would've gotten a parking ticket. I take public transportation to work, live close enough to the bars I like to walk and anywhere else I ride a bike, only need a car to visit relatives.