At what point did you know DCEU was failing ?

[Rorschach2012]

My hype levels for BvS were through the roof. For weeks and months leading up to that, that was all I could think about. I remember reading critics reviews & I was crestfallen. I didn't want to believe them.

Yeah I know there are more important things in life than comic book movies, but BVS was one of the biggest disappointments of my life. I do realize it’s just a movie of course, but I just spent so much time and energy on something that turned out to be nothing like what I expected. Way worse than I expected actually.

Justice League was better than I expected because my expectations were so low from the ugly trailers

Such a shame that BVS and JL were such a step down in quality from TDKT. It’s pretty much undeniable

 

[Steyin]

The second Batman was announced and that the sequel was BvS instead of MoS 2.

 

[random_havoc]

When they hired Zack Snyder to run it.

Ditto

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Using A list characters is the fundamental problem. Even the general audience has preconceptions about Superman and Batman. When those preconceptions aren't met, fans turn toxic and the general audience remains ambivalent. The MCU built their world with characters the general audience didn't give a **** about so writers could do what they wanted with the characters to make them like-able.

That is a very good point.

 

[Boy Scout]

I disagree. Screwing up those A-List characters was the problem, not using them in the first place. WB would have been foolish to try and build a cinematic universe off the back of, say, Green Arrow when they’ve always had access to their heavy hitters.

You could almost argue that WB was in a particularly advantageous position because their characters are so well known. Evidence of what worked and what didn’t was right there in front of them, dating all the way back to the seventies (or the sixties, if you want to count the Adam West movie). The fact that they learned all the wrong lessons is due to their own incompetence.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Justice League was better than I expected because my expectations were so low from the ugly trailers

It's a shame when we're having to think like that

I disagree. Screwing up those A-List characters was the problem, not using them in the first place. WB would have been foolish to try and build a cinematic universe off the back of, say, Green Arrow when they’ve always had access to their heavy hitters.

You could almost argue that WB was in a particularly advantageous position because their characters are so well known. Evidence of what worked and what didn’t was right there in front of them, dating all the way back to the seventies (or the sixties, if you want to count the Adam West movie). The fact that they learned all the wrong lessons is due to their own incompetence.

I took unholyrevenger's comment to mean not that it was a mistake to use those characters, but that using came with a lot of expectation that the studio should have made sure they met.

 

[Boy Scout]

If that’s the case, then I agree.

 

[BestGirl]

When they hired Zack Snyder to run it.

That was the first red flag, along with Nolan leaving the franchise. I tuned out completely when I learned much older Batman was going to be a main character, one fighting Superman at that.

 

[TheVileOne]

When they decided to make Man of Steel the start of the DCEU without really thinking about it planning about it. It just seemed like it was all reactionary because of Avengers when beforehand Geoff Johns, DC and co. weren't interested at all in any type of shared cinematic universe.

 

[Silvermoth]

When Ben Affleck was hired. That really set the tone for the whole universe

 

[Superchan]

When they hired Zack Snyder to run it.

This.

 

[Vlyse]

Unlike other posters, I championed the creative idea of MoS-BVS/Trinity-JL as a trilogy and I still think it could have worked had better talent been attached to the project who understood the characters and the audience's expectations of these characters and the expectations out of a film that features said characters (hint: not the titular character's death in an event film, looking at you BVS). I had faith that they had done that when BVS was delayed from 8 months from Summer 2015 to Spring 2016, that they were being careful when the news came in 2014 that they were refining the script for holes. In hindsight, I guess that was just PR noise.

The only reason I'm beginning to see DCEU as a failure for now is that they only have 1 of the 2018 movies coming out still when the plan was to have 3: The Flash, The Batman, and Aquaman. These were all on the slate for this year since 2013. That's 5 years in the making and they haven't even got Flash and Batman off the ground yet with no ETA.

Shazam, WW2, SS2, and possibly Nightwing is a fair comeback for 2019 though I think.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

I've always had doubts in their ability to make good movies after Nolan is gone.

I was expecting MCU type of shallow movies from DCU.So bar was already low but they still found a way to dissapoint me with BvS.

BvS is killed DCU for me.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Unlike other posters, I championed the creative idea of MoS-BVS/Trinity-JL as a trilogy and I still think it could have worked had better talent been attached to the project who understood the characters and the audience's expectations of these characters and the expectations out of a film that features said characters

Second this. As I said above overall I like the DCEU but that's despite some of the problems - I'm not blind to them.

 

[The Batman]

The one two three punch of BvS being garbage, Snyder coming back for JL, and SS sucking. I was actually looking forward to SS, too.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I still have trouble getting my head around the fact that a Suicide Squad movie made more than a Superman movie and more than a freakin' Justice League movie.

 

[STARMAN]

I don't think they ever fully recovered from the third act of MOS other than the brief reprieve with WW.

 

[AverageMan]

As I said before, even though I was excited for BvS, they jumped the gun way too soon by going in for a team up.

MoS made $668 at the WW BO. More than acceptable for a starting point of a shared universe.

From there, they should have invested in more solo's - Wonder Woman & Batman, maybe Flash & Aquaman before BvS.

The general audience would have been more invested in the characters, leading to an eventual team up.

 

[unholyrevenger]

As I said before, even though I was excited for BvS, they jumped the gun way too soon by going in for a team up.

From there, they should have invested in more solo's - Wonder Woman & Batman, maybe Flash & Aquaman before BvS.

The general audience would have been more invested in the characters, leading to an eventual team up.

Not really. Tony is really the only character people were enamored with when avengers came out. Hulk, who remembers anything about that movie?, Cap and Thor their movies were OK, but didn't set the world on fire. We don't see the gleam of their character potential until Avengers and really Cap doesn't hit his stride until WS, and Thor doesn't hit his until Ragnarok.

People don't have to be invested in characters before the team up movie. No one was invested in the Guardians of the Galaxy, nor did we get lead in movies for them.

 

[unholyrevenger]

I still have trouble getting my head around the fact that a Suicide Squad movie made more than a Superman movie and more than a freakin' Justice League movie.

It not that hard. SS came out early August, the same time slot GotG cleaned up in previously. And that is basically the last chance a summer movie has at being successful as the school year start soon after.

JL came out two weeks after ragnarok. Most americans don't go to the movies very often. coupled with Thanksgiving being the week after people were spending their time shopping and prepping for thanksgiving. Rather than going to the movies. JL should had been pushed into march to allow for more fx polish and avoid the BP swell

 

[Erzengel]

It not that hard. SS came out early August, the same time slot GotG cleaned up in previously. And that is basically the last chance a summer movie has at being successful as the school year start soon after.

JL came out two weeks after ragnarok. Most americans don't go to the movies very often. coupled with Thanksgiving being the week after people were spending their time shopping and prepping for thanksgiving. Rather than going to the movies. JL should had been pushed into march to allow for more fx polish and avoid the BP swell

2017
Ragnarok - $314M
Coco - $206M
JL - $228M
TLJ - $617M

2016
Doctor Strange $232
Moana - $248
Fantastic Beasts - $234M
Rogue One - $532M

2016 and 2017 had similar releases but Fantastic Beasts comes out looking better because of a very healthy worldwide gross.

While this may be A factor, the whole BvS debacle, BTS issues and not strong world of mouth doomed JL.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

People don't have to be invested in characters before the team up movie. No one was invested in the Guardians of the Galaxy, nor did we get lead in movies for them.

True, but then you could also say the same thing about The Expendables. Those movies are all about the team. To me the point of the Justice League - like The Avengers - is that they are long-established individual characters who are used to doing things their own way but are brought together for a threat greater than any of them can handle alone. The MCU conveyed that very well, but IMO the DCEU didn't. I'm a DC fan and I like the DCEU but I think they failed in that aspect.

 

[the last son]

Yeah I know there are more important things in life than comic book movies, but BVS was one of the biggest disappointments of my life. I do realize it’s just a movie of course, but I just spent so much time and energy on something that turned out to be nothing like what I expected. Way worse than I expected actually.

Justice League was better than I expected because my expectations were so low from the ugly trailers

Such a shame that BVS and JL were such a step down in quality from TDKT. It’s pretty much undeniable

I'm in the same boat. I waited three years for that movie. Some nights I couldn't sleep with excitement. I was in disbelief in the theater. I will never be that excited for a movie again. It was such a disappointment. Smh.

 

[Zarex]

Not really. Tony is really the only character people were enamored with when avengers came out. Hulk, who remembers anything about that movie?, Cap and Thor their movies were OK, but didn't set the world on fire. We don't see the gleam of their character potential until Avengers and really Cap doesn't hit his stride until WS, and Thor doesn't hit his until Ragnarok.

People don't have to be invested in characters before the team up movie. No one was invested in the Guardians of the Galaxy, nor did we get lead in movies for them.

There's a big, big difference between a traditional team up like Guardians, Suicide Squad and X-Men and an All Star Team like the Avengers or the Justice League. If you want the big bucks at the box office you have to establish the main characters as stars before they join forces.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I'm in the same boat. I waited three years for that movie. Some nights I couldn't sleep with excitement. I was in disbelief in the theater. I will never be that excited for a movie again. It was such a disappointment. Smh.

I didn't feel that way about BvS but that's exactly how I felt seeing Batman & Robin so I can fully sympathise.