Avoiding Another Malekith Situation in Phase 3

Dasher10

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Malekith was a weak villain. There is no getting around that. He had no personality. Whiplash also suffered the same fate.

My hope is that Phase 3 manages to make certain villains more charismatic. Here's how I'd characterize them.

Baron Zemo (confirmed) - Peggy Carter killed his grandfather and he wants revenge. He has now risen to the level of Supreme Hydra and despite all his forceful boasting, there's this sadness and anger mixed within him. He wants to use Hydra as a force for good provided that he manages to conquer the entire world and place it under his rule. He's absolutely ruthless but believes himself to be benevolent. He should be this mes of contradictions and hypocrisies that garner some empathy but never sympathy. He never realizes that he's actually the bad guy and believes himself to be the true hero for the entire film. Yet deep inside, you feel like this guy just needs a hug and a good therapist.

Baron Mordo (likely) - Mordo needs to be driven mad with power. He should be a foil to Strange with Strange symbolizing ultimate power tempered by temptation. Mordo should be what Strange would become if he ever succumbed. He's ultimately a puppet for Dormammu because he can't see past his own ambition. Strange knows some of the most dangerous spells of black magick but avoids using them whereas Mordo would attempt them just to see if/how they work. I'd make him a fellow occultist who Strange meets upon his return to New York but eventually represents everything that Strange fears becoming.

Dormammu (likely) - Dormammu has never been the most interesting villain in the Marvel U but he makes up for that with his sheer fear factor. Dormammu needs to be genuinely frightening with a deep inhuman voice who's only weakness is his own arrogance when it comes to making pacts with mortals which allows him to be banished back to the dark dimension. He works better as the bigger villain pulling Mordo's strings.

Matriarch (likely) - Matriarch should come across as magnanimous and kind as first as she is a cult leader and needs to have charisma. I'd make her want to convert the Guardians to her side before they realize the awful truth about her and find that the Universal Church of Truth's coming messiah, The Magus is prophesied to bring untold calamity. Worse yet, he allegedly already rules the future and plans to return to the past with the help of the time gem. it's up to the Guardians to steal the time gem from the Matriarch so that this future will never come to pass.

Shocker (rumored) - Herman Schultz should hopefully be a sympathetic former engineer and computer hacker who's fallen on hard times and turned to crime out of necessity. He's still a thief but he's a thief whom the audience can sympathize with. He's also a survivor who keeps evading Spider-Man despite not having any sort of super powers, not to mention acting as comic relief.

Mysterio (rumored) - He's the much more dangerous thief than Shocker who gains far less sympathy as he kills people whereas Shocker's gauntlets are designed to be non-lethal. Mysterio has a flair for the theatrical and a jealous rage towards Shocker who he feels encroaches on his territory as the greatest thief in New York. He should be a truly hardened crook with the edge that Shocker lacks who enjoys using his illusions to mentally torture Spider-Man.

Surtur (Confirmed) - Surtur works best when he is a shallow doomsday villain. This is the one circumstance where I would like a villain like Whiplash or Malekith. Surtur works best as a plot device who's prepared to destroy all of reality aside from Musphelheim.

Enchantress (rumored) - She needs to be this type of scheming, manipulative power hungry villainess. She should be Loki's love interest who frames him for crimes against Asgard when Thor returns as he is the rightful heir and she really just wants to be queen. Then when a jilted Loki teams with Hela to bring about Ragnarok so that all reality may be destroyed, Amora acts like she's been the victim the whole time even as Surtur and Ymir descend upon Asgard. And at the end, she survives and escapes to Earth, sacrificing her bodyguard Skurge the Executioner to do so.

Thanos (confirmed) - This guy needs to kill off half the universe, including everybody in Avengers Tower within the first five minutes, then proceed to kill the remaining heroes who dare to oppose him in the third act before being undone by his own overconfidence. And he does it all to earn the love of the goddess of death who simply isn't attracted to him and will never love him back. At the end, when everything he accomplished was undone, he finds himself searching for redemption among the Guardians.

Klaw (confirmed) - I want Klaw to be a villain defined by a combination of greed and prejudice. He ultimately things of Africans as lesser and feels that Wakanda's resources belong in the hands of their former colonial masters. I wouldn't make Klaw the least bit sympathetic. I'd make him a despicable racist jerk who's only out for himself.

Yon-Rogg (likely) - Yon-Rogg should see himself as a patriot at war with the terrorist Mahr-Vell who's simply doing his duty by checking up on the Kree Empire's Inhuman crossbreeding project on Earth by kidnapping a random latent Inhuman and then activating her through terrigenesis within Kree space. In his eyes, he's fighting for his country, safeguarding it's citizens against a dangerous insurgent and experimenting on a primitive animal. He's completely oblivious to the harm he's causing and thinks nothing of it. He also doesn't realize that the Kree Empire is committing terrible atrocities against its own people in the name of, "making them stronger" or that the Terrans have gained sentience until it's too late and even then, he still manages to kill off Mahr-Vell and attacks Carol.

Doctor Minerva (likely) - She should be Yon-Rogg's head of science who grants herself the same powers as Carol. She should be this clinical type who feels bad about what she's doing to Carol but does it anyway. She also comes to see Carol as nothing more than a highly dangerous test subject who's run amok and wants to take responsibility for a mess that she caused.

Magus (likely) - Adam Warlock's evil future self who returned to the past so he may claim the Infinity Gauntlet and grant his followers eternal life at the expense of everyone else. He should be a deranged Antichrist figure who preaches salvation but brings only Armageddon.

Maximus (likely) - His goals should be far more admirable than those of the heroes. He wants to liberate the Alpha Primitives and initiate contact with the people of Earth as well as the Kree Empire. Medusa by contrast wants to retain slavery and isolationism. Where Maximus fails is in his methods when he leads a violent rebellion on the Blue Area of the Moon and attempts to slaughter the entire ruling class save himself. Inhumans should have no real hero or villain but rather a protagonist and antagonist.

Steel Serpent (likely) - Davos is ultimately driven by envy. He was Lei Kung's failed champion who believes that he should be the rightful Iron Fist and resents Daniel Rand for only being a quarter Chinese. His main fault is his envy but he frequently displays a weird sense of honor with certain lines that he won't cross.

Chemistro (likely) - He should be one of Kingpin's underbosses who framed Luke Cage in the first place. He may be a gangster but he also has his brother who he loves very much which gives him his humanizing attributes.

The Hood (likely) - Parker Robbins should be a crook who stumbles upon amazing power when burglarizing the Sanctum Sanctorum and manages to dethrone Kingpin but proves to be even more ruthless than Fisk ever was. He's the reason why the Defenders band together. He's a villain to the core but ultimately one who's birthed out of Doctor Strange's ineptitude. I'd make him the POV character for the first episode of Defenders but portray him as like Shakespeare's MacBeth or Richard III.
 
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The problem with Malekith was not that he was weak but that he was the product of an unfocused narrative. They put far too much focus on Loki which left little screentime or development, which was the real problem.

The same situation occurred with Whiplash. They cut the scenes that were meant to give him depth or nuance so he just ended up as another generic bad guy.

Give the villains something to do.
 
I rolled my eyes so hard I could see the inside of my head for a moment
 
The problem with Malekith was not that he was weak but that he was the product of an unfocused narrative. They put far too much focus on Loki which left little screentime or development, which was the real problem.

The same situation occurred with Whiplash. They cut the scenes that were meant to give him depth or nuance so he just ended up as another generic bad guy.

Give the villains something to do.
Yup. Malekith had a motive, and the beginnings of a character arc, but all the development got hacked out in favour of a pitiful runtime and Loki, Loki everywhere
 
OH NO! Some details were changed from the comics to better fit the MCU! This is an atrocity!
what? I rolled my eyes because of the idea that Malekith was a weak villain. A little underdeveloped on screen? sure Not the main focus of the movie? Of course not, but not every superheromovie has to focus on some villain, there are other ways to structure a story. Weak? No, he was not weak. He had a strong and clear motive and all the means to get the thing done he wants to get done
 
I agree that Malekeith was a weak villain. Same with Ronan.

I thought they were performed really well, but there is/was not much to the way they were written/portrayal. I honestly feel the same way about Red Skull.

It is really weird because from what Ive heard and seen Malekeith is a real charismatic character so I dont know why they stripped his personality down.
 
I agree that Malekeith was a weak villain. Same with Ronan.

I thought they were performed really well, but there is/was not much to the way they were written/portrayal. I honestly feel the same way about Red Skull.

It is really weird because from what Ive heard and seen Malekeith is a real charismatic character so I dont know why they stripped his personality down.

It seems like they catered to a certain section of the fan base by giving Loki more screentime and amping up the "quirkiness" with Kat Dennings. These things sucked the drama out of the movie and made Malekith a sidenote.
 
Malekith had potential. We know what he wanted to do and his plan to do it. They should have been a little clearer on his reasoning for wanting to plunge the "realms" into darkness. And what his plans were once that happened. I never felt the gravity of this threat. The biggest thing that bothered me was how the aether was portrayed. Once Malekith obtained this powerful substance it was underwhelming and he was easily dealt with. Way too easy for me. Ruined the climax of the film along with the comedic antics.
 
what? I rolled my eyes because of the idea that Malekith was a weak villain. A little underdeveloped on screen? sure Not the main focus of the movie? Of course not, but not every superheromovie has to focus on some villain, there are other ways to structure a story. Weak? No, he was not weak. He had a strong and clear motive and all the means to get the thing done he wants to get done

Man I thought I was the only one who had no problems with Malekith. XD
 
Malekith had a great design, and a great story, but he, like Whiplash, got pushed to the background. He wasn't a BAD Fillion per say, but he could have been great.

Anyway, my take on how to utilize Phase 3 villains:

Helmut Zemo: Works with Pym and Stark to head up the S.R.R. He has renounced the violent, totalitarian views of his ancestors, but it is slowly revealed that his true plan is to unite all nations into a one-world government, annihilating all who oppose him. He sees this as the only way for humanity to survive in the bigger, scarier universe they have been thrust into.

Baron Mordo and Dormmamu: Mordo is the star pupil passed over for Stephen Strange. Driven mad with jealousy, he summons Dormmamu, the ambitious general of Mephisto's demon hordes, who then defrays Mordo and sets off to bring about Hell on Earth.

Enchantress, Executioner, Surter: Enchantress and Executioner are schemers wanting to usurp the throne of Asgard. Surter is the terrifying, unstoppable force of nature that is prophisied to destroy Asgard.

Mysterio: Believes the future of crime is in theatrics. He teams up with Herman Schultz and takes a contract from the Kingpin, embarking on a series of incredible heists.

Klaw and M'Baku: Klaw wants a monopoly on Wakanda's Vibranium, M'Baku wants the throne, to return Wakanda to its traditions. They team up to kill T'Chaka and establish M'Baku in his place. The only thing left in their way is Prince T'Challa.
 
Malekith was weak, his motivation was barely explained, turn the universe into darkness? Huh? Even moments where he should show a bit of emotion had him look blank, like when he destroyed Odin's throne. The guy was just bland and boring, though to be fair, the film never advertised him as more than what he turned out to be.
 
It seems like they catered to a certain section of the fan base by giving Loki more screentime and amping up the "quirkiness" with Kat Dennings. These things sucked the drama out of the movie and made Malekith a sidenote.

THey still couldve done that and still giving Malekeith personality even with the amount of screentime they gave him

The only guess I have is that they didnt want another charismatic villain because they already like Loki.

I see what your saying though. Actually I think making Malekeith charismatic wouldve helped with what they were going for.
 
what? I rolled my eyes because of the idea that malekith was a weak villain. A little underdeveloped on screen? Sure not the main focus of the movie? Of course not, but not every superheromovie has to focus on some villain, there are other ways to structure a story. Weak? No, he was not weak. He had a strong and clear motive and all the means to get the thing done he wants to get done
+1 for the most part. Could have used one or two more mentions but it's still pretty clear to me.
 
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I agree that Malekeith was a weak villain. Same with Ronan.

I thought they were performed really well, but there is/was not much to the way they were written/portrayal. I honestly feel the same way about Red Skull.

It is really weird because from what Ive heard and seen Malekeith is a real charismatic character so I dont know why they stripped his personality down.

Because the initial vision by Feige, Yost and Taylor was a darker, grittier Thor film. The problem is that the Thor comics are high fantasy. They're closer to Lord of the Rings than A Song of Ice and Fire and Whedon wanted to lighten the tone while the film was shooting.

That and Tom Hiddleston had a tiny part when he was one of the best loved parts of the first Thor and The Avengers.

Granted, Whedon was right that the initial draft of the script was far too dark for Thor and Feige hired Taylor based on that script and we wound up with a film that clashed with the director's sensibilities, was subject to rewrites and reshoots and heavy executive interference.
 
Malekith had a great design, and a great story, but he, like Whiplash, got pushed to the background. He wasn't a BAD Fillion per say, but he could have been great.

Anyway, my take on how to utilize Phase 3 villains:

Helmut Zemo: Works with Pym and Stark to head up the S.R.R. He has renounced the violent, totalitarian views of his ancestors, but it is slowly revealed that his true plan is to unite all nations into a one-world government, annihilating all who oppose him. He sees this as the only way for humanity to survive in the bigger, scarier universe they have been thrust into.

Baron Mordo and Dormmamu: Mordo is the star pupil passed over for Stephen Strange. Driven mad with jealousy, he summons Dormmamu, the ambitious general of Mephisto's demon hordes, who then defrays Mordo and sets off to bring about Hell on Earth.

Enchantress, Executioner, Surter: Enchantress and Executioner are schemers wanting to usurp the throne of Asgard. Surter is the terrifying, unstoppable force of nature that is prophisied to destroy Asgard.

Mysterio: Believes the future of crime is in theatrics. He teams up with Herman Schultz and takes a contract from the Kingpin, embarking on a series of incredible heists.

Klaw and M'Baku: Klaw wants a monopoly on Wakanda's Vibranium, M'Baku wants the throne, to return Wakanda to its traditions. They team up to kill T'Chaka and establish M'Baku in his place. The only thing left in their way is Prince T'Challa.

You mean Heinrich Zemo. Heinrich is the Zemo from the 40s. Helmut is the present day descendant.
 
Because the initial vision by Feige, Yost and Taylor was a darker, grittier Thor film. The problem is that the Thor comics are high fantasy. They're closer to Lord of the Rings than A Song of Ice and Fire and Whedon wanted to lighten the tone while the film was shooting.

Granted, Whedon was right that the initial draft of the script was far too dark for Thor and Feige hired Taylor based on that script and we wound up with a film that clashed with the director's sensibilities, was subject to rewrites and reshoots and heavy executive interference.

where did you hear all this
 
Because the initial vision by Feige, Yost and Taylor was a darker, grittier Thor film. The problem is that the Thor comics are high fantasy. They're closer to Lord of the Rings than A Song of Ice and Fire and Whedon wanted to lighten the tone while the film was shooting.

That and Tom Hiddleston had a tiny part when he was one of the best loved parts of the first Thor and The Avengers.

Granted, Whedon was right that the initial draft of the script was far too dark for Thor and Feige hired Taylor based on that script and we wound up with a film that clashed with the director's sensibilities, was subject to rewrites and reshoots and heavy executive interference.

Actually the first writer on the project was the late Don Payne,Yost rewrote the script after Taylor was hired.
 
As much as I love TDW & IM2 I do agree. Both Malekith & Whiplash didn't have enough development. They had both had what was the great start of a character arc only for it to have a mostly unsatisfying end. On top of that, both characters were killed.

Every villain needs to be as memorable as possible. They don't have to try to make every villain seem like the most badass guy out there but at least fully flesh out the character so the finale has more impact.
 
Ronan worked better than Malakeith because the actor revelled in the simplistic role. They really played up the camp like with the scene where he bathed in other people's blood and then they powdered him.

Malakeith, in contrast, had no drama, and no fun to him. His plan was meaningless, it emerged out of nowhere, and he was comprehensively defeated.
 
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