I figure I'll start S3 on Wednesday. Then I get to go home for a couple of days and will be on hiatus. @flickchick85 will probably start running me down.
I really want to get through the main meat of this.
I figure I'll start S3 on Wednesday. Then I get to go home for a couple of days and will be on hiatus. @flickchick85 will probably start running me down.
I really want to get through the main meat of this.
Holy moly! You started flying once you got to season 2 (but that tends to occur when one hits the main plot, things start becoming very bingeable)!
OMG, just realized what your next episode is.... Then after it comes the COVID episode. DOn't forget to switch the order of Divided Loyalties and The Long, Twilight Struggle.
How are you liking season 2 so far? What did you think of The Coming of Shadows?
With respect to the ending...
Yes, it is like LOTR where there is a long aftermath of the main conflicts of the story. However, that was in part intentional and in part due to unfortunate real world circumstances. Just as the show was starting the 4th season, word came that the syndication network that B5 aired on was going under. So thinking they would never get the planned 5th and final season, JMS accelerated his plans a little and crammed the resolution of the two main conflicts into season 4 so that the fans would get closure. The first major conflict was to end mid-season 4 and the second conflict mid-season 5 after a cliffhanger ending for season 4. They crammed that all into season 4 instead and then shot the series finale at the end of season 4 (which is an epilogue and Grey Havens-style takes place some time after the rest of the story). The result is less standalone episodes and breathing room in season 4. Some think season 4 feels a little rushed, but I think it still works really well.
However, the show got saved at the last minute and was picked up by TNT for the final season. Unfortunately, they lost a couple cast members who had sought out other work in the meantime, thinking the series was done. Having already done a lot of what JMS planned for the first half of season 5 in season 4, the first half of season 5 is rather rough and is more like season 1 in quality. However, the second half of season 5 recovers, covers its planned stories, and is quite excellent.
Holy moly! You started flying once you got to season 2 (but that tends to occur when one hits the main plot, things start becoming very bingeable)!
OMG, just realized what your next episode is.... Then after it comes the COVID episode. DOn't forget to switch the order of Divided Loyalties and The Long, Twilight Struggle.
How are you liking season 2 so far? What did you think of The Coming of Shadows?
With respect to the ending...
Yes, it is like LOTR where there is a long aftermath of the main conflicts of the story. However, that was in part intentional and in part due to unfortunate real world circumstances. Just as the show was starting the 4th season, word came that the syndication network that B5 aired on was going under. So thinking they would never get the planned 5th and final season, JMS accelerated his plans a little and crammed the resolution of the two main conflicts into season 4 so that the fans would get closure. The first major conflict was to end mid-season 4 and the second conflict mid-season 5 after a cliffhanger ending for season 4. They crammed that all into season 4 instead and then shot the series finale at the end of season 4 (which is an epilogue and Grey Havens-style takes place some time after the rest of the story). The result is less standalone episodes and breathing room in season 4. Some think season 4 feels a little rushed, but I think it still works really well.
However, the show got saved at the last minute and was picked up by TNT for the final season. Unfortunately, they lost a couple cast members who had sought out other work in the meantime, thinking the series was done. Having already done a lot of what JMS planned for the first half of season 5 in season 4, the first half of season 5 is rather rough and is more like season 1 in quality. However, the second half of season 5 recovers, covers its planned stories, and is quite excellent.
are my main point of interest and season 2 is very cool. I'm thinking S3 will be even cooler. I wanna see more of the bad guys. It's like watching Alien....I wanna see more.
are my main point of interest and season 2 is very cool. I'm thinking S3 will be even cooler. I wanna see more of the bad guys. It's like watching Alien....I wanna see more.
Not much difference so far between Sinclair and Sheridan (don't think that's a spoiler since we talked about Sinclair leaving?), but I just recently saw the
Not much difference so far between Sinclair and Sheridan (don't think that's a spoiler since we talked about Sinclair leaving?), but I just recently saw the
Yeah, it's not a real spoiler, especially considering who is the face of B5 in all of the promo images , but I like to be careful for others...
It's interesting that...
you find them quite similar. I find them a good bit different. I find Sinclair quieter, more thoughtful, kinda distant and world weary. Someone scarred by war. I also find him more diplomatic.
In contrast, I find Sheridan much more human, man of action, military sort of type. But since I know where their characters arcs are going, maybe I pick up more on the different aspects.
You can also see it in their different relationships with the supporting cast. Sinclair gets on with the Minbari, whereas Sheridan's relationship with them is more adversarial. Sinclair's best friend is Garibaldi, who has tension with Sheridan. Whereas Sheridan is closer with Ivanova.
Yeah, it's not a real spoiler, especially considering who is the face of B5 in all of the promo images , but I like to be careful for others...
It's interesting that...
you find them quite similar. I find them a good bit different. I find Sinclair quieter, more thoughtful, kinda distant and world weary. Someone scarred by war. I also find him more diplomatic.
In contrast, I find Sheridan much more human, man of action, military sort of type. But since I know where their characters arcs are going, maybe I pick up more on the different aspects.
You can also see it in their different relationships with the supporting cast. Sinclair gets on with the Minbari, whereas Sheridan's relationship with them is more adversarial. Sinclair's best friend is Garibaldi, who has tension with Sheridan. Whereas Sheridan is closer with Ivanova.
Oh okay! Yeah, they are very different and, before JMS was free to disclose O'Hare's mental health issues, he used to say that the reason for the introduction of Sheridan was because he realized he was trying to have Sinclair be too many things in the story. I think there is a lot of truth in that. I think the two separate characters are more manageable and work best when serving separate roles in the story.
To be fair to the ISN episode, we have been living with 30 years of CNN and Fox News now. Cable news was the big new thing in the 1990s. I quite enjoy the ISN episode as it is very much the CNN version of the media and we later see the Fox News version later.
Holy moly! You started flying once you got to season 2 (but that tends to occur when one hits the main plot, things start becoming very bingeable)!
OMG, just realized what your next episode is.... Then after it comes the COVID episode. DOn't forget to switch the order of Divided Loyalties and The Long, Twilight Struggle.
How are you liking season 2 so far? What did you think of The Coming of Shadows?
With respect to the ending...
Yes, it is like LOTR where there is a long aftermath of the main conflicts of the story. However, that was in part intentional and in part due to unfortunate real world circumstances. Just as the show was starting the 4th season, word came that the syndication network that B5 aired on was going under. So thinking they would never get the planned 5th and final season, JMS accelerated his plans a little and crammed the resolution of the two main conflicts into season 4 so that the fans would get closure. The first major conflict was to end mid-season 4 and the second conflict mid-season 5 after a cliffhanger ending for season 4. They crammed that all into season 4 instead and then shot the series finale at the end of season 4 (which is an epilogue and Grey Havens-style takes place some time after the rest of the story). The result is less standalone episodes and breathing room in season 4. Some think season 4 feels a little rushed, but I think it still works really well.
However, the show got saved at the last minute and was picked up by TNT for the final season. Unfortunately, they lost a couple cast members who had sought out other work in the meantime, thinking the series was done. Having already done a lot of what JMS planned for the first half of season 5 in season 4, the first half of season 5 is rather rough and is more like season 1 in quality. However, the second half of season 5 recovers, covers its planned stories, and is quite excellent.
I love season 3. It probably has my favourite main title sequence of the series. Although season 4 and 5's main titles are also stellar.
So you have finally seen Kosh "revealed"? I really enjoy how they incorporate the Vorlons and the other older races into Earth mythology.
What do you think about Londo and G'Kar's respective journeys?
With respect to the Narn-Centauri conflict, Londo's descent into darkness is one of my favourite arcs of the series. He is probably the best written, most fully realized character on the series. This shot from The Long, Twilight Struggle is probably in my top 3 of the series:
Londo finally fully realizing the horrors of what he set in motion.
I love season 3. It probably has my favourite main title sequence of the series. Although season 4 and 5's main titles are also stellar.
So you have finally seen Kosh "revealed"? I really enjoy how they incorporate the Vorlons and the other older races into Earth mythology.
What do you think about Londo and G'Kar's respective journeys?
With respect to the Narn-Centauri conflict, Londo's descent into darkness is one of my favourite arcs of the series. He is probably the best written, most fully realized character on the series. This shot from The Long, Twilight Struggle is probably in my top 3 of the series:
Londo finally fully realizing the horrors of what he set in motion.
For a little piggy who just wants to see Shadows and fights, S3 starts out a little slow except for the Whitestar episode. That being said, the Londo/G'kar arcs, while unexpected at the beginning have been building for awhile now and are great and JMS did a great job with the writing. So far, it's clearly one of the best SciFi series I've seen. The Tolkien influence is pretty clear at this point and your Chapter 2 reference to FotR was dead on.
For a little piggy who just wants to see Shadows and fights, S3 starts out a little slow except for the Whitestar episode. That being said, the Londo/G'kar arcs, while unexpected at the beginning have been building for awhile now and are great and JMS did a great job with the writing. So far, it's clearly one of the best SciFi series I've seen. The Tolkien influence is pretty clear at this point and your Chapter 2 reference to FotR was dead on.
Valen is mentioned in The Gathering for sure and the earlier seasons as well I believe. Like the episode about the death of Minbari warleader in season 1 and the episode about why the Minbari stopped the war with Earth in season 2.
Okay, @Snow Queen and @DarthSkywalker, now that Darth has recovered from his post-Royal Rumble coma, it's time for us to quicken our pace! We can't let an old man beat us!
Watched the first 10 episodes today. Very much enjoying it thus far. Some thoughts...
After DK's disclaimers, "The Gathering" was actually much better than I was expecting. A very solid pilot, imo. LOVE all the world-building. Since all the material I've seen with this show featured Sexy Tron as the lead, I kept waiting for Sinclair to be killed or something, and was all too quick to believe he was really evil instead of being framed. Guess I was expecting a sort of Psycho-esque fakeout with the lead. And then I saw him in the screencaps for all the eps of S1 and was like..."oh." But I like Sinclair. The actor playing him feels like he walked straight off the set of a John Wayne movie, and I love it.
"Midnight on the Firing Line" was definitely a step up, though. "Soul Hunter" was probably my least favorite of the bunch thus far. It was just kinda boring. But none of these eps strike me as filler so I'm guessing the Soul Hunters are gonna play a bigger part in the story later on.
The disappearance of Babylon 4 feels like quite the Chekov's Gun atm.
Speaking of Chekov, hey, it's Chekov! And Ilya Kuryaken!!! And....Winnie, dat you?? Also, Harlan Ellison wat.
I was dismayed to see the two most prominent POC characters immediately replaced after that pilot, but I get how networks can be. I was glad they at least weren't recast and their disappearances were well-explained and left open to come back.
The way they later tied it all together in one of the episodes I most recently watched (I think "The War Prayer") with that whole Vorlon conspiracy angle was an especially nice touch. Speaking of "The War Prayer," that one REALLY hits close to home these days.
I thought Delenn seemed shady from the start. I think she'll ultimately turn out to be good, but...still shady.
Watched the first 10 episodes today. Very much enjoying it thus far. Some thoughts...
After DK's disclaimers, "The Gathering" was actually much better than I was expecting. A very solid pilot, imo. LOVE all the world-building. Since all the material I've seen with this show featured Sexy Tron as the lead, I kept waiting for Sinclair to be killed or something, and was all too quick to believe he was really evil instead of being framed. Guess I was expecting a sort of Psycho-esque fakeout with the lead. And then I saw him in the screencaps for all the eps of S1 and was like..."oh." But I like Sinclair. The actor playing him feels like he walked straight off the set of a John Wayne movie, and I love it.
"Midnight on the Firing Line" was definitely a step up, though. "Soul Hunter" was probably my least favorite of the bunch thus far. It was just kinda boring. But none of these eps strike me as filler so I'm guessing the Soul Hunters are gonna play a bigger part in the story later on.
The disappearance of Babylon 4 feels like quite the Chekov's Gun atm.
Speaking of Chekov, hey, it's Chekov! And Ilya Kuryaken!!! And....Winnie, dat you?? Also, Harlan Ellison wat.
I was dismayed to see the two most prominent POC characters immediately replaced after that pilot, but I get how networks can be. I was glad they at least weren't recast and their disappearances were well-explained and left open to come back.
The way they later tied it all together in one of the episodes I most recently watched (I think "The War Prayer") with that whole Vorlon conspiracy angle was an especially nice touch. Speaking of "The War Prayer," that one REALLY hits close to home these days.
I thought Delenn seemed shady from the start. I think she'll ultimately turn out to be good, but...still shady.
Nice! Heads-up, the departure of Sinclair was the result of Michael O'Hare's severe mental illness that developed during filming. During the filming of season 1 he started developing severe psychosis and paranoid delusions. JMS was ready to put production on hiatus so that O'Hare could get treatment. O'Hare was scared it would kill the show and people would lose jobs, so they agreed JMS would help O'Hare finish the season and would write his character out after that so that he could get treatment. JMS actually funded O'Hare's treatment and kept it secret until O'Hare's recent death, so that O'Hare could keep acting after his recovery. The character still gets a great arc and wonderful closure during later appearances after O'Hare's treatment.
With respect to the departure of Takashima and Dr. Kyle after the pilot, it is my understanding that the actors chose not to return. The gap between the pilot and the series order was about a year and I think they moved onto other work. So it was not studio interference as far as I am aware. And with respect to Dr. Kyle, they at least replaced him with another POC who was a better actor.
Yeah, the explanation that those involved in Kosh's treatment were recalled to Earth is a pretty darned fitting explanation for the cast changes.
With respect to Mr. Bester, because I grew up with B5, Walter Koenig as Bester actually comes first to my mind ahead of Chekhov. He is so awesome in the role and there will be much more of him to come.
Yeah, there are a lot more episodes like The War Prayer that hit super close to home right now. I peeked ahead and watched a favourite scene from an episode about where @InCali is right now and oof... Even more relevant than I remembered. Certain lines said by reporters are almost verbatim to some recent CNN coverage.
Yeah, Deathwalker is a really good one too. In particular, I love the Vorlon stuff. Oh Kosh...
On re-watch that line and the Vorlons' intervention in the Deathwalker situation says sooo much more about the Vorlons than one realizes on a first watch.
Nice! Heads-up, the departure of Sinclair was the result of Michael O'Hare's severe mental illness that developed during filming. During the filming of season 1 he started developing severe psychosis and paranoid delusions. JMS was ready to put production on hiatus so that O'Hare could get treatment. O'Hare was scared it would kill the show and people would lose jobs, so they agreed JMS would help O'Hare finish the season and would write his character out after that so that he could get treatment. JMS actually funded O'Hare's treatment and kept it secret until O'Hare's recent death, so that O'Hare could keep acting after his recovery. The character still gets a great arc and wonderful closure during later appearances after O'Hare's treatment.
With respect to the departure of Takashima and Dr. Kyle after the pilot, it is my understanding that the actors chose not to return. The gap between the pilot and the series order was about a year and I think they moved onto other work. So it was not studio interference as far as I am aware. And with respect to Dr. Kyle, they at least replaced him with another POC who was a better actor.
Yeah, the explanation that those involved in Kosh's treatment were recalled to Earth is a pretty darned fitting explanation for the cast changes.
With respect to Mr. Bester, because I grew up with B5, Walter Koenig as Bester actually comes first to my mind ahead of Chekhov. He is so awesome in the role and there will be much more of him to come.
Yeah, there are a lot more episodes like The War Prayer that hit super close to home right now. I peeked ahead and watched a favourite scene from an episode about where @InCali is right now and oof... Even more relevant than I remembered. Certain lines said by reporters are almost verbatim to some recent CNN coverage.
Yeah, Deathwalker is a really good one too. In particular, I love the Vorlon stuff. Oh Kosh...
On re-watch that line and the Vorlons' intervention in the Deathwalker situation says sooo much more about the Vorlons than one realizes on a first watch.
Oh wow, I never would've suspected anything like that with the actor playing Sinclair. Nice to hear JMS was able to help him get better and come back later. I also didn't realize it was another BSG situation where the main show premiered so long after the initial movie/pilot. Makes total sense that they couldn't get all the actors back then.
And yeah, based on "Believers" I'd say the actor playing Doctor Franklin is indeed an improvement.
And on the Vorlons....
My current random and probably totally way off base theory is that they are humans from the future or something along those lines. Probably ridiculous, but I remember Kosh at least had a human-looking hand in "The Gathering"!
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Then after it comes the COVID episode. DOn't forget to switch the order of Divided Loyalties and The Long, Twilight Struggle.
