Batman: Arkham Knight - Part 2

[TheVileOne]

Well there were quite a few continuity errors with Arkham Origins anyway, especially after they said it was six years before.

 

[X Knight]

just picked up Asylum and City again, so I'm gonna play through those before picking up Origins!

 

[Oscorp]

Rocksteady is jelous that they can't make boss fights and a story as good as origins

What's so good about the boss fights in Arkham Origins? The simple and overly easy Killer Croc fight? The quick time event Deathstroke fight which reused animations from Rocksteady's Ra's al Ghul fight? The overly long, boring fight with Firefly that lacked any imagination and featured some of the worst fire graphics in any PS3/360 gen game?

The only boss fight in Arkham Origins I found to be pretty good was the final Bane one. And that's solely because of the atmosphere, which was great. Other than that, the fights were very lackluster and overrated IMO.

There is no boss fight that equals the Freeze one in AC. Or Ra's al Ghul. Or the Killer Croc section in AA.

About story: true, some characterizations such as Bane were better in AO than in Rocksteady's games. But looking at the overall story, I don't think the one in AO is any interesting at all. While the execution of the story in AC left things to wish for, in particular Dr. Strange, it has IMO a way better ground up than the story in AO.

 

[The Joker]

No way is the story of AC better than AO's. Neither in premise or execution. There was real proper character development and deep character moments in AO. The therapy session between Joker and Harley alone was better than any Joker material in AA and AC.

 

[Shikamaru]

Don't know if I agree with that, Joker. I also have issues with a lot of the things in AA/AC's stories, but I thought all the Batman/Joker stuff was very well done. I especially loved the Joker interview tapes, in both AA and AC. I don't think the therapy session in AO is anywhere on par.

If anything, the therapy session kinda pissed me off. It did the whole "Red Hood origin is the real deal", a huge personal pet peeve of mine, and also kinda contradicted the AC tapes in the process.

 

[Oscorp]

Don't know if I agree with that, Joker. I also have issues with a lot of the things in AA/AC's stories, but I thought all the Batman/Joker stuff was very well done. I especially loved the Joker interview tapes, in both AA and AC. I don't think the therapy session in AO is anywhere on par.

If anything, the therapy session kinda pissed me off. It did the whole "Red Hood origin is the real deal", a huge personal pet peeve of mine, and also kinda contradicted the AC tapes in the process.

I agree! Joker was a lot more entertaining and interesting in AA and AC.

 

[Shikamaru]

Joker was amazing in all three games IMO. To a certain extent, I think people are so fixated on Joker being the main villain that they forget how well done he was by both studios. I agree that the Joker was ridiculously overused, but that doesn't change the fact that he was well done.

 

[TX85]

Agreed !

 

[The Joker]

Don't know if I agree with that, Joker. I also have issues with a lot of the things in AA/AC's stories, but I thought all the Batman/Joker stuff was very well done. I especially loved the Joker interview tapes, in both AA and AC. I don't think the therapy session in AO is anywhere on par.

Joker's interview tapes in AA and AC were just him spouting lies to Dr. Young about his past "I was born in a small fishing village. My father was Cop...." etc etc, and talking to Dr. Young about the Titan project, and chatting up Harley.

The therapy session in AO actually gave some insight into Joker's mind, how he views the world, and Batman. It was amazing, and more deep and insightful than the material he had in the previous games.

Easily. I can't believe anyone would actual try and deny that.

If anything, the therapy session kinda pissed me off. It did the whole "Red Hood origin is the real deal", a huge personal pet peeve of mine, and also kinda contradicted the AC tapes in the process.

"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past I prefer it to be multiple choice"

His words in The Killing Joke. Just because he remembers something about the Red Hood doesn't make it the real deal. He remembers being Red Hood in the comics, too.

 

[TheVileOne]

Doesn't Joker being told his wife was murdered and her murderer is still out there make him break character briefly in the comics?

 

[Oscorp]

Joker's interview tapes in AA and AC were just him spouting lies to Dr. Young about his past "I was born in a small fishing village. My father was Cop...." etc etc, and talking to Dr. Young about the Titan project, and chatting up Harley.

The therapy session in AO actually gave some insight into Joker's mind, how he views the world, and Batman. It was amazing, and more deep and insightful than the material he had in the previous games.

Easily. I can't believe anyone would actual try and deny that.



"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past I prefer it to be multiple choice"

His words in The Killing Joke. Just because he remembers something about the Red Hood doesn't make it the real deal. He remembers being Red Hood in the comics, too.

Obviously people who don't agree with you are in denial

 

[The Joker]

Doesn't Joker being told his wife was murdered and her murderer is still out there make him break character briefly in the comics?

You talking about the Hush Returns story?

Obviously people who don't agree with you are in denial

Obviously It's one thing to have a preference for one over another. That's fine, that's personal preference. But to say that there's more meat to Joker's character in those interview tapes in the previous Arkham games over that therapy session scene is just wrong.

The therapy tapes were tons of fun, but they were made up predominately of Joker either blatantly lying and messing with his interviewer, chatting up Harley, or going on about the Titan project.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yup. You can't really trust anything the Joker says at face value.

Sort of like in Dark Knight, every story about how he gets his scars is different.

 

[Oscorp]

You talking about the Hush Returns story?



Obviously It's one thing to have a preference for one over another. That's fine, that's personal preference. But to say that there's more meat to Joker's character in those interview tapes in the previous Arkham games over that therapy session scene is just wrong.

The therapy tapes were tons of fun, but they were made up predominately of Joker either blatantly lying and messing with his interviewer, chatting up Harley, or going on about the Titan project.

It felt lacking for several reasons for me. One of them being, despite thinking Troy Baker is the best voice actor out there, that he doesn't reach the level of Mark Hamill in the role. I've come to think that The Joker is one of Troy's weaker voice acting deliveries simply because of the "good but not perfect" Hamill imitation. It takes away from all the Joker scenes in Arkham Origins for me.

Another reason is that I think "less is more" applies to Joker. The Killing Joke is one of my favourite reads of all time. I don't need to see "in your face"/too obvious homages to that story in a game. I don't need to see his origin (fake or not)/his views of Batman. We know that already.

Joker in AA and AC was purely sadistic, sinister fun in the now, with that "force of nature" feel to it, and I very much enjoyed that.

I did appreciate the origin of Joker and Quinn's relationship though.

 

[The Joker]

It felt lacking for several reasons for me. One of them being, despite thinking Troy Baker is the best voice actor out there, that he doesn't reach the level of Mark Hamill in the role. I've come to think that The Joker is one of Troy's weaker voice acting deliveries simply because of the "good but not perfect" Hamill imitation. It takes away from all the Joker scenes in Arkham Origins for me.

That's all your own personal preference. I have no issue with what you prefer.

Another reason is that I think "less is more" applies to Joker. The Killing Joke is one of my favourite reads of all time. I don't need to see "in your face"/too obvious homages to that story in a game. I don't need to see his origin (fake or not)/his views of Batman. We know that already.

Arkham Origins showed far less of his origin than The Killing Joke did. All AO showed was him as a nameless faceless criminal walking through a chemical factory dressed as Red Hood. Even then they make no implication that this is his definite official origin.

This is all in the screwy mind of the Joker. He even imagines Batman as some kind of demonic creature in his mind.

Joker in AA and AC was purely sadistic, sinister fun in the now, with that "force of nature" feel to it, and I very much enjoyed that.

So was the one in AO. And with a far more interesting relationship with Batman, too.

 

[AnneFan]

Here's a thought. What if the Arkham Knight is an embodiment of the Spirit of Arkham from AA? Quincy Sharp became obsessed with the secret writings and as a result became almost two people. Someone else could find the writings and take up this work. If this is Rocksteady's last, they could revisit their first to tie it all up.

 

[Drz]

Works for me, i still would prefer Arkham Knight to be Hugo Strange or "Damian Wayne".

 

[jonathancrane]

Strange was stabbed and blasted into a hundred pieces, tho...

 

[The Joker]

I don't know how Hugo could come back after he died in Batman's arms and then got blown to bits.

EDIT: Joker and Crane think alike

 

[AnneFan]

Strange was stabbed and blasted into a hundred pieces, tho...

Yep. He's dead as a doornail - in the slim to none chance he comes back this must play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_F2Fl17RX8

I think the character will be original. I think the Spirit of Arkham thing makes sense.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Here's a thought. What if the Arkham Knight is an embodiment of the Spirit of Arkham from AA? Quincy Sharp became obsessed with the secret writings and as a result became almost two people. Someone else could find the writings and take up this work. If this is Rocksteady's last, they could revisit their first to tie it all up.

I've been saying it could be anunknown descendent of Amadeus Arkham from the beginning, but it being someone possessed by Amadeus is also cool.

 

[Drz]

Strange was stabbed and blasted into a hundred pieces, tho...

Did we ever find his body?

I remember he was stabbed, i haven't played the game in a long while so i can't comment on the blast.

However, Hugo Strange and Batman are the only ones who passed Ras' al Ghul's test, hence one could always assume a certain Lazarus Pit could come in handy?

Speaking of Lazarus Pit and character resurrections, wonder will we see either Ras' or Talia? Both?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing all three of them return

 

[titansupes]

Did we ever find his body?

I remember he was stabbed, i haven't played the game in a long while so i can't comment on the blast.

However, Hugo Strange and Batman are the only ones who passed Ras' al Ghul's test, hence one could always assume a certain Lazarus Pit could come in handy?

Speaking of Lazarus Pit and character resurrections, wonder will we see either Ras' or Talia? Both?

We do see his body spiked on that fence or whatever it was...

 

[jonathancrane]

He was talking about Strange; yes, R'as was impaled twice and then disappeared.