Batman: Arkham Knight

[Broseph44]

Got the art of Rocksteady's Batman today. Book is huge cannot wait to dive into it.

 

[hafizbat]

If you're just in for the skins and challenge maps, I'd hold off on the Pass. I imagine you'd come out better buying things piecemeal rather than dropping $40 just for that; even though we don't know the pricing on everything. Run through the game, spend some time on whatever is free and there might be some more specific info when you're done there that'll help you more with the decision.

Below is pulled from a AK Reddit and it's about as much of a breakdown of the Season Pass that I've seen (including some snooping).

Spoiler

Just thought I'd put this all in one place so we can look at it for reference/discuss it all in one place.

To be clear, all of this is included in the $40 Season Pass.

Batgirl: A Matter of Family - An all new prequel story expansion in an entirely new location where you play as Batgirl for the very first time in the Arkham series.

The Season of Infamy - Play as Batman in all new story missions featuring legendary super-villains invading Gotham City, with new story arcs, missions and gameplay features.

• 
  Digging through the files shows that the villains are Killer Croc, Mad Hatter, Black Mask, Mister Freeze, Ra's Al Ghul, and Prometheus.

Gotham City Stories - Play as Batman’s key allies in narrative missions extending their storylines, from both before and after the events in Batman: Arkham Knight.

Legendary Batmobiles with Themed Tracks - Drive the most iconic Batmobiles from Batman’s 75-year history, on custom-built race tracks, each themed to that Batmobile’s specific era. Every Batmobile will be drivable across every race track.

Crimefighter Challenge Maps - Engage in a series of new challenge maps utilizing the unique play styles of Batman and his allies.

• Files show playable Batman, Nightwing, Robin, Catwoman, Batgirl, Harley Quinn, Red Hood, Azrael, and Joker. Joker specifically is referenced in "Million Dollar Mayhem", where you "cause as much mayhem as possible within 5 minutes and send the bill to Wayne Enterprises."

Character Skins - A variety of skins from across the eras for Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, and Batgirl.

• Files show multiple skins, here they are:
• Batman Skins - First Appearance (Detective Comics #27) - Alex Ross - Batman: The Animated Series - Batman Beyond - Blackest Night - Classic TV Series (Adam West) - Earth 2 - Flashpoint Paradox (Thomas Wayne) - Gotham Knight (Anime) - Justice League 3000 - Batman Inc. - Jim Lee - New 52 - 1970s (Blue Suit) - Dark Knight Origins - Dark Knight Returns - Zur-En-Arhh - Bruce Wayne (Unmasked)
• Robin Skins - Classic Tim Drake - Classic TV Series (Burt Ward) - Damian Wayne - One Year Later - New 52 (Dick Grayson)
• Nightwing Skins - Classic - New 52
• Catwoman Skins - 1990s (Long Halloween) - Classic TV Series (Julie Newmar)
• Batgirl Skins - Bruce Timm - Classic TV Series - New 52

Pre-Order Bonus Content - All in-game content that is offered through various retail pre-order incentives. This includes the Harley Quinn and Red Hood Story Packs, as well as any Batmobile or Booster Pack that was available as early bonuses for pre-order of the game. For those who did not receive the content with their game, these items will become available when their respective exclusivity windows expire in August/September.

...

Thanks! I'm going to follow your advice and wait it out, if any of the DLC turns out to be as good as Cold Cold Heart was (didn't get to play that one), I'll be down but until then I don't think it's worth it.

I know people were excited for A Matter of Family because it was developed by WB Montreal, if I'm reading right most people were disappointed? If so, I can't really expect the other DLC episodes to be better.

 

[Two-Face]

How about the car stays in for those who enjoy it and have it as an optional travel thing like gliding and not be forced into much of the story, Then you just choose not to use it?

I would be fine with that.

 

[TX85]

I wonder when "Season of Infamy","Gotham Stories",the challenge maps and skin pack comes out,Those are the dlc I'm interested in or might also get the batmobile tracks but only IF it unlocks the cars as playable in free roam

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

New Easter Egg was found. For those who haven't played/beaten there are spoilers.

[YT]watch?v=DfDRazIVwSU[/YT]

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

This is a very interesting perspective, and certainly not one I have given enough thought on. I still assert that Rocksteady's games feature sexism, but I think you are spot on in regards to the larger picture. The supporting cast are often treated as coupons, to the point that AK teased us constantly with greater supporting cast involvement only for Batman to say "No, I don't need help."

What supports your thesis a lot is Sefton Hill's own admittance that the title came first and they built a story around it. Batman stories more than most comic casts tend to be pretty character oriented, so I think you do hit a nail on the head in terms of them overruling character to drive narrative, whereas Origins had an excellent mix.

As for the 'missed targets', I agree there are some. The Batgirl cover is unusual in that I really didn't like it because it's an absolutely hackish technique to keep going back to the Killing Joke well when Barbara herself has stated repeatedly and showed it too that she is not afraid of him, and it was made worse by the fact that this was a new continuity and a comic series for a younger teen girl demographic. I will concede the backlash was probably bigger than it needed to be though.

(sorry, this one went on longer than I anticipated. But, I guess I had more thoughts on everything than I first expected. sorry for the length.)

Oh yeah. I feel you and I would push back on defending the portrayals of Ivy and Catwoman to a point, different points for both us perhaps. But, Harley is the most indefensible example for me. I think Talia's character design in AC would be another one. It's one of the reasons I've made jokes in the past about 'what-if' Rocksteady had made Origins, and Lady Shiva showing more skin could be a given. But, they seem to be listening and making adjustments. I haven't heard any of the female characters get called a '*****' or anything as bad as in Arkham City. Some of the character designs seemed to pull back from what they did in AC, too. But, that doesn't erase what they've done, for certain.

I think about some of the other characters, like Bane, and the ways they've gone about of forcing the characters to fit the narrative. Orgins felt like it took those characters, and didn't do that. Even going so far as to use what Rocksteady did as a strength by creating a rather tragic story around Bane. AC even treated Batman that way in some spots, like having him seem like an errand boy, where as AO had him pushing the story forward by actively being the detective. The only thing that might be off, is maybe having a young Batman defeat Deathstroke, but it being a tough boss fight balanced it for me. AO felt like it was written by people who knew and understood these characters, and told the story accordingly. The Rocksteady games have felt, for the most part, like them telling the story they want even if the characters, placements, and pieces don't fit that narrative.

And I'm not surprised they wrote the story based around the name. But, man that does sound like a counterproductive way to craft a story. And kinda iffy, when you consider how forced the entire 'Arkham' name has felt since AC.

The sad thing for me about the 'missed targets' is that I think the major ones I've seen have been ones I couldn't support, while there's other cases that felt like they went untouched that I could have supported. I think about the controversy over Catwoman having casual sex with Batman, and how wrong that campaign had been. It was a sex positive feminist flip by having the female lead use a male character for sex to purely make herself feel better. But, the attacks on that made it seem like it was the other way around, and wound up seeming like it was shaming Catwoman's character for having any sexual desire, pushing some conservative notion of women needing to be proper and not into casual sex or something. That just got weird for me.

I thought the controversy over the Batgirl cover went way too far. It was a great cover, which is the point. If they wanted to fight over her portrayal in the story, which my understanding is that it was fine, then maybe that's the one to have. But an artist paying homage to a classic (even if it's now controversial) story isn't new, and it's not a bad thing. People claiming that the cover was promoting rape, and that it was a cover about sexual assault...the social media campaign against it went too far for me, and demonized a good artist who did a great cover that now nobody got to have in their hands.

I thought the social media campaign against the Batgirl creative team over the perceived Transphobic reaction from Babs was another one that went too far for me. You had an entire creative team, being demonized and accused of Anti-LGBT sentiments, being called bigots and accused of hatred over Transgendered people because of one panel featuring Batgirl's reaction to a crossdressing villain (which is very different from being Transgendered).

I feel like the criticism towards the Arkham (Rocksteady, really) games are earned and are constructive more often than not, even if I think they have a larger problem dealing with all characters (they lean way too heavily on the kidnapping plot device). But, I think it's constructive. But, some of the stuff I just mentioned of the social media campaigns against creative teams in comics isn't. I think it could do more harm than good, given the tragic history the comic book industry has with self-imposed censorship nipping creativity that has mutalated comics and led to many of the problems it's facing now with gender equality and people of color.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

New Easter Egg was found. For those who haven't played/beaten there are spoilers.

[YT]watch?v=DfDRazIVwSU[/YT]

That's pretty cool. I'll try it out and see for myself.

Btw...I may have noticed something in his Lab when searching for the Riddler trophies. Francine's body was missing, and there was a message written on the wall...or maybe one of the tv screens.The message read "Forever my Love". The video that played had stopped, and I think the screens may have been broken. I didn't really think about it, since I was hellbent on seeing through the Knightfall protocol and playing late at night.

But, looking back I'm wondering if it sets up Francine as having been infected too. And Curt had no way of having gone back to the lab since he'd either been Man-Bat the whole time, or in custody. I remembered how BTAS had handled the return of Man-Bat, and I think it might mesh.

I wonder when "Season of Infamy","Gotham Stories",the challenge maps and skin pack comes out,Those are the dlc I'm interested in or might also get the batmobile tracks but only IF it unlocks the cars as playable in free roam

Well, they're going to dole it out over the next six months. It'll be a steady drip, but they're going to milk it to keep people coming back. And I'm hopeful. Aside from the Jokermobile not being usable, which is weird, Rocksteady seemed to acknowledge how fans want to use the skins after AA locking away the Armored Batsuit from the story mode. And they seemed to acknowledge it even more with AK, by letting us switch outfits during the first playthough and not have to unlock the ability to do so after.

And with as much emphasize as they've put into the Batmobile in the game, you'd think they would show the second most important character in the game the same courtesy. I don't see what the point would be of going through the trouble of bringing the Burtonmobile, for example, to life only to keep it constrained to only two race tracks. They would have been better off doubling the Batman skins instead, if that's what happens.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

New Easter Egg was found. For those who haven't played/beaten there are spoilers.

[YT]watch?v=DfDRazIVwSU[/YT]

Oh wow! To think there's still more stuff out there like this.

 

[TheVileOne]

I recommend everyone continuing to check on Officer Owens, the guy who you play as in the prologue. If you keep checking on him, he has this whole subplot carried on throughout the game.

Besides that, there is another police officer at GCPD who is obsessed with Poison Ivy. If you get him at one point, he will recite a poem to you he personally wrote for Poison Ivy.

Also, I know everyone is all for diversity and feminism and all right now, and that's great. But I still believe The Killing Joke is a great and classic story. I also sincerely hope it's not watered down or censored at all when its adapted as an animated film. Rocksteady started working on this franchise probably about a decade ago. Oracle has been in this game since the beginning, and it's the Oracle/Barbara who was paralyzed by Joker. IMHO, the whole point of Oracle exhibited that she is still a valuable asset and crime fighter to the whole Bat Family despite being brutally handicapped by the Joker. She re-discovered her identity because of this.

Now, Arkham games are not without its problems, but the portrayal of Oracle is pretty faithful to the comics and it's based on what was done in the comics. Rocksteady should not have to censor and dramatically change the story they were already telling because people are getting ******** about the Killing Joke as of late. I am not going to attack or disavow Killing Joke because people are upset about what happened to Barbara in that story.

If you are going to get salty about Batman saving female characters in a video game...then you pretty much shouldn't touch a single Batman story ever again. Not to mention the fact that Catwoman has saved Batman multiple times in the Arkham games.

 

[zenith16]

I liked the fact that when barbra became oracle she be come more then a asset to the bat family but to the DCU as a whole.

I like it that most of batman's sidekicks /student's be came heroes in their own standing and developed skill set's that set them apart from him.

Oracle was the source for all info for all heroes . night wing became a good leader that even the justice League took notice of very often time for his hacker tech skills etc Damien & Cassandra Cain both had the knowledge of how assassin's & how they thin which great got countering them.

Huntress who ran with Night wing from his titan's day from university where they met as student be came an asset to Barbra as a bird of prey operative working for case's for batman and help Night wing & Arsenal as a member of their outsiders team.

Batman was the over all great Detective /general science man .

Jason is still a bit lost for now.

I also say Hellena Wayne(well it depends with her) , Terry ( who Showed he's a bat man in his own right )and his brother(latter of which is unknown if terry ever told him every thing) .

it wasn't very well with the former characters that are batman's allies in Gotham but the bat family was shown at least.

 

[Havok83]

Guys, I believe we can dispense with the usage of spoiler tags for the main story now. We're 3+ weeks in. Not much really comes to mind on the DLC to date, but please be mindful of spoiling any potential info there until it's been out on full release for a while. Thanks for keeping up with them beforehand though.

3 weeks? My goodness, the game just came out. There are titles that are out for over a year that still have spoiler tags. Its great that you're a Batman fan and played through it but not everyone has. I think less than a month out, spoiler tags are still warranted especially since this game contains big onces for someone that hasnt picked it up yet

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

You can't give credit to The Killing Joke for Oracle, though. That was John Ostrander and his Suicide Squad run salvaging her character after what that story did to her.

 

[zenith16]

You can't give credit to The Killing Joke for Oracle, though. That was John Ostrander and his Suicide Squad run salvaging her character after what that story did to her.

I know, I don't I know who it was & when it was done.

 

[The Caped Knight]

This was another genius move by Rocksteady in having The Joker's effect on Batman play on his mind heavily.

 

[titansupes]

Re SPOILER TAGS. It would be nice if everyone kept using them for the main story. I know it's been a few weeks, but I myself am not close to finishing that yet, as far as I know. I've had a lot of work and family stuff over the past few weeks, so I've only played sporadically.

I'm up to

Spoiler

the part where Barbara killed herself.

Of course, I do pretty much think I know the basic of the ending, thanks to others comparing it to other endings in Batman media. But still.

EDIT: Also, on THE KILLING JOKE. It is and always will be an amazing story. The recent backlash against it is ridiculous.

 

[Benstamania]

I recommend everyone continuing to check on Officer Owens, the guy who you play as in the prologue. If you keep checking on him, he has this whole subplot carried on throughout the game.

Besides that, there is another police officer at GCPD who is obsessed with Poison Ivy. If you get him at one point, he will recite a poem to you he personally wrote for Poison Ivy.

Also, I know everyone is all for diversity and feminism and all right now, and that's great.But I still believe The Killing Joke is a great and classic story. I also sincerely hope it's not watered down or censored at all when its adapted as an animated film. Rocksteady started working on this franchise probably about a decade ago. Oracle has been in this game since the beginning, and it's the Oracle/Barbara who was paralyzed by Joker. IMHO, the whole point of Oracle exhibited that she is still a valuable asset and crime fighter to the whole Bat Family despite being brutally handicapped by the Joker. She re-discovered her identity because of this.

Now, Arkham games are not without its problems, but the portrayal of Oracle is pretty faithful to the comics and it's based on what was done in the comics. Rocksteady should not have to censor and dramatically change the story they were already telling because people are getting ******** about the Killing Joke as of late. I am not going to attack or disavow Killing Joke because people are upset about what happened to Barbara in that story.

If you are going to get salty about Batman saving female characters in a video game...then you pretty much shouldn't touch a single Batman story ever again. Not to mention the fact that Catwoman has saved Batman multiple times in the Arkham games.

Believe me.. I'm not for modern fascist feminism. SJW, especially in video games, are going to eventually ruin the medium for me. It's only a matter of time. You also can't bring up the fact that female characters in these games have actually helped Batman. That's too much logic and reason.

 

[Mister J]

OK, so spoilers tags back in play for the time being

... not that I believe anything of consequence came since the earlier message, but hey, I did boost my post count.

Spoiler

On another note, I'm going through another run. Really wishing there was a way to hack into whatever citywide PA system there is going on. Stupid yappy supervillains.

 

[hafizbat]

Yeah, I just started the game so it'd be really nice if y'all could keep the spoiler tags for a bit longer.

After playing the game for a couple hours last night, I have such mixed feelings. I have a sort of love/hate thing going on right now. The game is absolutely gorgeous, the story has a sense of gravity, and I'm really liking the world right now. The batmobile is incredibly fun to drive, it's almost as if it should be in a "destroy everything" game mode, lol. On the other hand, it's seriously getting on my nerves...I went in knowing all the complaints but hoping they were exaggerated...they are not!!

Seriously, what the hell Rocksteady? It's absolutely ridiculous how much they force us to use the batmobile. I find that I can't play 5 minutes without having to use the Batmobile for the most menial, stupid tasks. It's agony! I detest how dependent Batman is on the car...how was he ever an effective Batman without it before? It's seriously aggravating and I can't fall in love with the game because of it, no matter how much I want to. I don't know what Rocksteady was thinking, the way they designed the game...it really spoils the good stuff

That's pretty much my only complaint so far, besides that the game is truly awesome. I don't really like how over-the-top everything is though. Batman is way too OP, he almost seems like a toned-down Superman, the new suit is overdesigned, the whole army/drone stuff makes it feel more COD than Batman, and I don't really like Batman's characterization so far. Is it just me or is he kind of a jerk to everyone but Gordon?

But man, when the game actually lets me "Be the Batman", I can't help but smile in glee. My first predator sequence indoors made me feel so happy again after being frustrated with the game up to that point. When you actually get to do Batman things, the game is everything I could have asked for. Now the story is picking up as well, and I'm starting to get immersed.

Just let me "Be the Batman", Rocksteady...you were so amazing at that.

 

[Drz]

[YT]Ef_ZI7tftZE[/YT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef_ZI7tftZE

 

[Havok83]

I would really be interested in reading an interview where Rocksteady address the backlash to the Batmobile vs their intentions and expectations. Id like to know their thought process and what decision went into balancing Batmobile vs traditional Batman segments

 

[DKDetective]

OK, so spoilers tags back in play for the time being

... not that I believe anything of consequence came since the earlier message, but hey, I did boost my post count.

Spoiler

On another note, I'm going through another run. Really wishing there was a way to hack into whatever citywide PA system there is going on. Stupid yappy supervillains.

Thanks for changing your mind on this. As a PC gamer, I was hoping they would be kept up a bit longer considering we don't even have a working version of the game on our platform yet.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

So while I'm replaying, here is what I think they should have done story wise that no doubt would have improved the entire story.

Spoiler

Ra's al Ghul should have been involved. The game was all about Batman experiencing his failures. Scarecrow blames Batman for not saving him and leaving him to die against Croc. Jason blames him for not saving finding him and saving him.

Ra's would have fit well into this. He blames Batman for not saving his daughter and so in revenge, he steals the body of Batman's dead son and uses him against Batman. Ra's gives Jason the chance to lead the League of Assassins and he agrees. Jason comes up with a plan and tells Ra's the problem with Arkham City was you were focused on finding Batman's successor and not getting rid of the Bat. Because of that Batman stopped Protocol 10. In order to accomplish all you want, Batman needs to die first and to accomplish that you need to work with his villains.

It would have improved the story as a whole and the Arkham Knight himself.

Villains didn't work together really. They did their own thing. A way to improve this is what if you had for example when Batman's going to Stagg's blimps, you have Two-Face announce that he has 2 bombs planted at 2 different locations. One a restaurant in which the mob conducts business in, the other a homeless shelter. You have 2 minutes to stop the places from exploding. Stuff like that.

You could still have Deathstroke as a backup plan for Scarecrow and he comes in after you defeat the Arkham Knight and Ra's. AK escapes while you go lock Ra's up.

I do agree that boss battle wise, they could have been improved but at the same time Pyg, Two-Face, Penguin, Blackfire, and Harley aren't really fighters. Deathstroke and the Arkham Knight are.

Croc should have cameoed in a way where we learn Crane tested his new fear gas on Croc as a way of revenge for what he did to him in Asylum.

One other problem was Jim going solo after Barbara. I was thinking that now the GCPD would be mad at Batman and we would see Batman fighting cops. Sort of going back to it ends how it began. The cops are against you, the city is against you, you have alienated your allies.

Hush should have been the one who did the surgery to Scarecrow's face and gave Scarecrow the stuff to conduct his research. When the Arkham Knight reached out to Crane, he told Hush about him. Hush then tells Crane to work with him and his ideas. That the night they attack it's important Batman be distracted.

In Batman being distracted maybe Hush invades Wayne Enterprises as Bruce, gets an army of military and they now use WayneTech military equipment to fight Batman.

Thinking bout it now Wayne Enterprises was corrupt when Bruce came back so to have them corrupt in this. Going back to it ends how it began.

There really should have been the Deathstroke fight. Have Batman face basically waves of the tanks fight in the middle of basically Gotham's time Square part and after you defeat the tanks, you have Deathstroke arrive on a tank saying your car is good and proven it can fight but what about you Batman? Can you fight or do you need to hide behind that car. Get out of the Batmobile and fight Deathstroke on the streets. In fighting him on the streets, henchmen all over come to watch and they just start going fight fight fight and making funny jokes during the fight. Have the fight basically be like Arkham Origins but just with a sword since it seems that's all Slade had with him in Arkham Knight but it will still be as long of a fight.

Lastly bit disappointed more gameplay wise then story that we didn't get to fight as Batman in Scarecrow's nightmare stuff like we did as a cop in the beginning of the game. That would have been ****ing awesome.

I feel if they did all of that, it would have been perfect story wise.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I recommend everyone continuing to check on Officer Owens, the guy who you play as in the prologue. If you keep checking on him, he has this whole subplot carried on throughout the game.

Besides that, there is another police officer at GCPD who is obsessed with Poison Ivy. If you get him at one point, he will recite a poem to you he personally wrote for Poison Ivy.

Also, I know everyone is all for diversity and feminism and all right now, and that's great. But I still believe The Killing Joke is a great and classic story. I also sincerely hope it's not watered down or censored at all when its adapted as an animated film. Rocksteady started working on this franchise probably about a decade ago. Oracle has been in this game since the beginning, and it's the Oracle/Barbara who was paralyzed by Joker. IMHO, the whole point of Oracle exhibited that she is still a valuable asset and crime fighter to the whole Bat Family despite being brutally handicapped by the Joker. She re-discovered her identity because of this.

Now, Arkham games are not without its problems, but the portrayal of Oracle is pretty faithful to the comics and it's based on what was done in the comics. Rocksteady should not have to censor and dramatically change the story they were already telling because people are getting ******** about the Killing Joke as of late. I am not going to attack or disavow Killing Joke because people are upset about what happened to Barbara in that story.

If you are going to get salty about Batman saving female characters in a video game...then you pretty much shouldn't touch a single Batman story ever again. Not to mention the fact that Catwoman has saved Batman multiple times in the Arkham games.

Yeah, I still love the Killing Joke. And it was a little weird having missed the moment when it seemed to turn heel, or something. There was a time it was seen as a Batman classic, without a doubt. And now, it's weird to see it's validity questioned. It wasn't until the Batgirl cover controversy that I realized the seething hatred some people have for that book. I still love it, and still a classic. I wonder if the New 52 bring Babs back as Batgirl may have played a role in the change of opinion, in some circles atleast. But, I have no idea when the heel turn happened for people. And I am absolutely convinced, 100%, after the announcement they made and the way they said it, that they are going change things dramatically. Bruce Timm being on board inspires confidence, but still remembering that this is DC we're talking about...I feel like it's going to be watered down, and changed dramatically.

I mean, Rocksteady changed things dramatically too...and people were STILL pissed off about it. Which to me is kinda strange, in the sense that Oracle is an amazing character. She's this symbol of heroism for refusing to quit the fight against crime while being disabled, and she couldn't be that if she hadn't been paralyzed by the Joker. And I've seen some people argue that Babs doesn't need to be attacked by the Joker to be "inspired" into fighting crime...which seemed like people who didn't even know she'd been Batgirl. TKJ may not have actually made her Oracle, but without it there is no Oracle. It's equatable to Bruce's parents being killed. It isn't what actually made him Batman, but if it doesn't happen then there is no vow made, there's no training, there's no dedication. There's nothing, and no Batman.

[BLACKOUT]And good point. I did like how Batman was portrayed as the damsel in distress at the end of the Catwoman sidequest. She even pulled him in for a kiss, saying the damsel (Bats) should give a kiss to the hero (Catwoman) who saved the day. That was great, and a little subversive when you think about it. [/BLACKOUT]And in AC, I chose to leave Gotham with the loot...and it turns out, Gotham City and Batman owe everything to Catwoman. Without her, that ****ing city would have fallen to the League.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I would really be interested in reading an interview where Rocksteady address the backlash to the Batmobile vs their intentions and expectations. Id like to know their thought process and what decision went into balancing Batmobile vs traditional Batman segments

I'd be willing to bet the farm that the biggest decision that went into it was this being the fourth Batman game made. Wanting to avoid a complete repetition definitely played a role. They've nailed the formula, and can't reinvent the wheel. So they added another wheel.

I think they leaned too heavily on the Batmobile, but I think it's understandable. If the Batmobile isn't important, then why include it at all if it's only for window dressing that can be a bulletpoint on the back of the box.

I'd love to see the Batmobile again in the next Batman game. Just not make it such an important part of the game is all.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, I still love the Killing Joke. And it was a little weird having missed the moment when it seemed to turn heel, or something. There was a time it was seen as a Batman classic, without a doubt. And now, it's weird to see it's validity questioned. It wasn't until the Batgirl cover controversy that I realized the seething hatred some people have for that book. I still love it, and still a classic. I wonder if the New 52 bring Babs back as Batgirl may have played a role in the change of opinion, in some circles atleast. But, I have no idea when the heel turn happened for people. And I am absolutely convinced, 100%, after the announcement they made and the way they said it, that they are going change things dramatically. Bruce Timm being on board inspires confidence, but still remembering that this is DC we're talking about...I feel like it's going to be watered down, and changed dramatically.

I mean, Rocksteady changed things dramatically too...and people were STILL pissed off about it. Which to me is kinda strange, in the sense that Oracle is an amazing character. She's this symbol of heroism for refusing to quit the fight against crime while being disabled, and she couldn't be that if she hadn't been paralyzed by the Joker. And I've seen some people argue that Babs doesn't need to be attacked by the Joker to be "inspired" into fighting crime...which seemed like people who didn't even know she'd been Batgirl. TKJ may not have actually made her Oracle, but without it there is no Oracle. It's equatable to Bruce's parents being killed. It isn't what actually made him Batman, but if it doesn't happen then there is no vow made, there's no training, there's no dedication. There's nothing, and no Batman.

[BLACKOUT]And good point. I did like how Batman was portrayed as the damsel in distress at the end of the Catwoman sidequest. She even pulled him in for a kiss, saying the damsel (Bats) should give a kiss to the hero (Catwoman) who saved the day. That was great, and a little subversive when you think about it. [/BLACKOUT]And in AC, I chose to leave Gotham with the loot...and it turns out, Gotham City and Batman owe everything to Catwoman. Without her, that ****ing city would have fallen to the League.

I think people just can't rectify something terrible happening to a beloved female character in fictional media these days or something.

On one hand, people are advocating more prominent and stronger roles for female characters. I don't have a problem with that. However, people overreact like crazy like god forbid that characters gets in a romance, say with Black Widow in Age of Ultron, or she has some less than questionable parts about her past. Or maybe *GASP* has some dark thoughts. Dark thoughts, that believe it or not, regular everyday people have all the time.

As for sexuality...like with Catwoman, well I mean...I like those aspects. Quite frankly, it bores me when Batman is all stoic and doesn't respond to attention he gets from female characters. I like it less when Batman is this like almost inhuman character who never eats, sleep, or even has sex. I remember when Hush first started, I was kind of excited because it looked like the trigger was pulled on Batman and Catwoman. Then it got jettisoned quickly and I was disappointed. It just seemed like a positive step for the character. Either way, I never subscribe to the view that superhero stories need to be puritanical or that characters can never have sex or romance or show any type of sexuality. Just for example, Andrea Romano, who voice directs a lot of our favorite cartoons including Justice League and BTAS told me once that she finds Batman and Kevin Konroy's Batman voice incredibly sexy.