Batman: Arkham Knight

[Havok83]

Joker ruined AK for me. I dread the thought of replaying that game bc of him

 

[Broseph44]

Joker ruined AK for me. I dread the thought of replaying that game bc of him

Really? That's what ruined AK for you? Hahaha

 

[The Joker]

I do understand his frustration with the over saturation of Joker in AK. I mean the guy was dead, yet he was in the game more than the previous ones when he was alive. They even revolved the finale of the game around him.

As entertaining as Hamill was, Joker should have been limited to a fear gas hallucination or two, and the whole fall out with the Joker infected people. That's it.

 

[Rodrigo90]

He was pivotal to Batman's last story arc, mind. Reducing him would've undoubtedly altered the Arkham Knight storyline to a great extent. I can't bash Rocksteady for wanting to a tell a pretty decent Batman v Joker tale.

 

[Nathan]

Pretty much the number 1 reason why I haven't bothered with Arkham Knight yet. The Joker already hijacked the story in Arkham City. Didn't want to experience the same situation all over again.

 

[The Joker]

He was pivotal to Batman's last story arc, mind.

He really wasn't. The guy was dead. He was the cause of his own death. Batman had no reason to feel remorse or guilt. The only lingering after effect of Joker's demise should have been the Joker infected people (and even they were not necessary), and Harley wanting revenge.

 

[Nathan]

They had to shoehorn in a stupid plot about people turning into Jokers, to tie him back into the game.

 

[Rodrigo90]

He really wasn't. The guy was dead.

Yeah, but his... spirit (?) lived on!

I thought it was at least creative. Batman's greatest fear of becoming what he hates coming true in such a messed up way.

 

[TX85]

Bruce revealing his identity to the world,too much batmobile focus and Joker ruined the game for me.

The batmobile focus and Joker was just annoying though and the identity reveal is what still pisses me off and especially the way Bruce gave up everything so easily when he could have found so many ways to save Jim&Tim while taking down Scarecrow , The reveal and ending was likely done just for shock value and to end the series with a huge bang but there were many other ways it could have ended with a better bang!

 

[The Joker]

They had to shoehorn in a stupid plot about people turning into Jokers, to tie him back into the game.

It was an unnecessary plot device, but I have to admit I enjoyed it. A lot of people complained the way AC left the whole plot point of Joker poisoning the city with his blood unresolved.

Although they didn't need to do this whole Joker infected people thing to resolve it, as a few lines of dialogue could have done that.

Yeah, but his... spirit (?) lived on!

I thought it was at least creative. Batman's greatest fear of becoming what he hates coming true in such a messed up way.

Batman never had a fear of turning into the Joker. So that never made sense.

 

[Snow Queen]

He really wasn't. The guy was dead. He was the cause of his own death. Batman had no reason to feel remorse or guilt. The only lingering after effect of Joker's demise should have been the Joker infected people (and even they were not necessary), and Harley wanting revenge.

It's a shame that the potential to do some interesting stuff with Harley's character and the infected people was reduced to about an hour in favour of the awful Arkham Knight stuff.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I would've forgiven the extra Joker stuff in AK if we had one last Scarecrow nightmare sequence. Even though Scarecrow was technically the main villain of the game, they still took him out like a punk. We should've had a better final showdown against him.

 

[Havok83]

Pretty much the number 1 reason why I haven't bothered with Arkham Knight yet. The Joker already hijacked the story in Arkham City. Didn't want to experience the same situation all over again.

It was quite unbearable. He was literally there for EVERY moment in the game. Had it been in small doses, it would have a bit easier to take but he was always present. Even little more things, he'd just pop up and annoy the heck out of me. It was an interesting concept at first but got old really fast. I dont play games to be annoyed and he was just too annoying and unavoidable

I do understand his frustration with the over saturation of Joker in AK. I mean the guy was dead, yet he was in the game more than the previous ones when he was alive. They even revolved the finale of the game around him.

As entertaining as Hamill was, Joker should have been limited to a fear gas hallucination or two, and the whole fall out with the Joker infected people. That's it.

IA with this. I thougth our first run in with him would be a fakeout and that would be it but then he never went away...

 

[Rodrigo90]

It was an unnecessary plot device, but I have to admit I enjoyed it. A lot of people complained the way AC left the whole plot point of Joker poisoning the city with his blood unresolved.

Although they didn't need to do this whole Joker infected people thing to resolve it, as a few lines of dialogue could have done that.



Batman never had a fear of turning into the Joker. So that never made sense.

The fear of becoming a killer, being no better or potentially worse than those he fights. Turning into the greatest evil, his arch-enemy, was a truly sick streak.

 

[The Joker]

It's a shame that the potential to do some interesting stuff with Harley's character and the infected people was reduced to about an hour in favour of the awful Arkham Knight stuff.

The whole game is one big missed opportunity.

IA with this. I thougth our first run in with him would be a fakeout and that would be it but then he never went away...

It would really get annoying when he would be talking in the background while other characters are talking, and sometimes he would drown out the dialogue with his babblings.

The fear of becoming a killer, being no better or potentially worse than those he fights. Turning into the greatest evil, his arch-enemy, was a truly sick streak.

That's still doesn't make sense. If that was Batman's greatest fear then why was he not hallucinating that when he was he gassed with fear toxin in AA? Or BTAS? Or even in the comics for that matter.

Furthermore that was not even Joker's purpose throughout the game. He was just there all through the story making smart alecky remarks and mocking the various situations. There was no prevalent theme that Batman was afraid he would become him. Ergo there was no resolving arc that needed to be played out here. Joker's inclusion in the game was totally unnecessary.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That's still nonsense. If that was Batman's greatest fear then why was he not hallucinating that when he was he gassed with fear toxin in AA? Or BTAS? Or even in the comics for that matter.

Furthermore that was not even Joker's purpose throughout the game. He was just there all through the story making smart alecky remarks and mocking the various situations. There was no prevalent theme that Batman was afraid he would become him. Ergo there was no resolving arc that needed to be played out here. Joker's inclusion in the game was totally unnecessary.

I guess you're right. His fears aren't consistent, though. They simply suit the story at hand.
Like in BTAS, what was his actual fear when he battled Scarecrow for the first time? All I can recall was the guilt he felt for not saving his parents. The tunnel they walked into turning in to a gun... They weren't fears, just trauma becoming a nightmare. That happens in a lot of stories.

But that's even sloppy writing from the comics, too! Batman has stated, often in a grim tone, how he will never become what he fights. It's his biggest commitment, so you'd think something he could easily slip into, would not scare him, even when his tone has suggested as much

And was there sloppiness in Arkham Knight, I can't deny it. If the previous games had of established Batman being afraid of becoming a man like the Joker, then it could've been more forgiving, as it would have reinforced this story of Bruce shedding each and every fear that held him back from becoming something deeper as Batman. But they didn't and so it is true, Joker was shoehorned in without much of a solid, good reason. Interesting concept, but with a poor execution.

 

[The Joker]

Batman's parents are always at the core of his fears, that's why most of his nightmares nearly always involve them in some way. Like two out of the three Scarecrow nightmares in AA had his parents in them.

Regarding your BTAS question, some grouchy old geezer who knew Bruce's father told him his father would be ashamed of him if he could see him now; a selfish playboy disgracing the family name. When Scarecrow gassed him later he saw his father saying he failed him, he was a disgrace etc.

You know at the end of AK they say the Joker is afraid of being forgotten. There's all these jabs about Gotham forgetting him; a wake with nobody but Harley at it, radio broadcasts and newspaper headlines saying he's dead and nobody cares, his grave being old and over grown etc. This was supposed to be in Bruce's head. Why would Batman give a toss if Joker is forgotten?

None of it made sense to me. Just cheap nonsensical writing to have Joker back.

 

[zeptron]

I probably wouldn't have minded all the Joker stuff if not only he didn't hijack the plot in City, but didn't end up being the main villain yet again in Origins.

 

[Rodrigo90]

You're right, they are at the core of his fears. It's the guilt he feels for thinking he could've done something, anything, to save them but didn't. It's partly why he's Batman, and that guilt will continue to exist as long as he lives. It's the fear of loss. I'm no psychologist, but the losses and guilt go hand-in-hand in Batman's main fears. The loss of life, the loss of self, and the guilt of failing his parents and those he cares for if he were to lose those things...

Joker's fear was being forgotten about. Bruce realised this and used it to battle him. The whole thing was under the guise of the Joker being another personality in Bruce's head, with his own separate conscience. But we all know it was just a messed up fantasy.

 

[spiderman2]

The complaints about the joker in AK are just lol because joker in origins felt way way more forced and way less necessary yet ever one loves origins overrated predictable story. Joker being Black mask was a million times worse then joker being in AK to the point were this shouldn't even be a debate.

 

[spiderman2]

Why?

Its to soon for remasters and if you were to remaster them on ps5 that would be a 2 gen jump from when they first came out. So the graphics jump could be bigger and then you could also remaster knight as while. With knight having just came out last year its not going to be remaster like the other 2 would.

 

[Nathan]

The complaints about the joker in AK are just lol because joker in origins felt way way more forced and way less necessary yet ever one loves origins overrated predictable story. Joker being Black mask was a million times worse then joker being in AK to the point were this shouldn't even be a debate.

Joker in Origins will always be one of my pet peeves. I was looking forward to one game without the Joker, and yet again there he was. Doesn't change though that the story was very well written, the characterization for all characters were spot on, and Joker isn't even remotely as much in the game as he is in Arkham Knight. Where he's literally next to you, constantly talking ****. And it was a game that showed us that you can have the Joker, and not treat every other character in the game like a second fiddle. Bane was fantastic in the game and didn't take **** from the Joker.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Nah, nah, nah the worst thing about AK was all the Batmobile ********. Way too much of that.

 

[spiderman2]

Joker in Origins will always be one of my pet peeves. I was looking forward to one game without the Joker, and yet again there he was. Doesn't change though that the story was very well written, the characterization for all characters were spot on, and Joker isn't even remotely as much in the game as he is in Arkham Knight. Where he's literally next to you, constantly talking ****. And it was a game that showed us that you can have the Joker, and not treat every other character in the game like a second fiddle. Bane was fantastic in the game and didn't take **** from the Joker.

Joker in origins killed the story to me and yes bane was good but outside of him finding out who batman was nothing surprised me about the game at all nothing.

Nah, nah, nah the worst thing about AK was all the Batmobile ********. Way too much of that.

That and lack of boss fights but even so the game is great and maybe the best of the 4.

 

[TX85]

I completely agree with Nathan on Joker and AO''s story vs AK's!