The Dark Knight Batman No More?

[Eggyman]

Ok ok, so I nabbed the title from Spider-man 2 . . . no harm, no foul

I'm not gonna get all defensive about creating a new thread; if you want to flame me then fire away. But hear me out first eh?

Ok, so it's mainly the trailer that has made me think this, and a couple of other things, too. My question to my fellow Hypers is: Do you think that Bruce will consider or even, for a short time, actually hang up his cape and cowl in The Dark Knight?

You might be wondering what makes me ask this question. Well, maybe Bruce will regret creating his monster because the escalation Gordon spoke of at the end of Begins seems to be coming true. A couple of things in the trailer made me think that this could be the case:

Alfred saying 'endure' and 'Gotham needs you' in responce to Bruce saying 'What would you have me do?'

Bruce holding the cowl as if in deep thought about his alter ego.

Also, let's not forget the change of the Batsuit. We have been told that there is a specific reason for the change; maybe Bruce destroys the Begins suit after deciding to quit being Batman . . . and then once coming to his senses needs a new suit to continue on his quest. Maybe.

Now I'm not saying that this is probable, and I'm not even saying that I like the idea. All I'm saying is that it's possible, and that it would be something to discuss about Bruce/Batman on these Joker-saturated boards (not that I have a problem with that).

Discuss

 

[YsoSerious]

You might have a point. Sounds completely logical. I like it as a plot point.

 

[combusticator]

I don't think he would want to quit for any personal reasons like Spidey did.

BUTT I think he will have some huge issues of "what have I started?" or "what have I created" with his theatricality and the concept of escalation, and maybe question if he's not doing the right thing, or going about what he's trying to accomplish in the wrong way (by being Batman). And maybe even if for a split second almost think, I should have taken an approach more similar to Ras (not blasting the whole city, but being more harsh towards baddies).

Everything to Batman is logical, in Nolan's version, he bathed Wayne's approach to creating his identity as Batman very methodically, logically and systematically.

Joker is the absolute opposite of that, and it's gonna make Wayne lose it, and question what he's doing...I bet Joker's line of "people think you're a freak...LIKE ME!" will get to him.

 

[jezza]

This is probably one of the most interesting topics to be discussed in quite a while and very valid. A lot of Bruces expressions in the trailer do seem to point at this and i'm guessing something bad happens after his encounter with Scarecrow at the beginning of the movie prompting the change in suit. Who knows? Either way it's fun to speculate.

 

[Eggyman]

I don't think he would want to quit for any personal reasons like Spidey did.

BUTT I think he will have some huge issues of "what have I started?" or "what have I created" with his theatricality and escalation. And maybe even if for a split second almost think, I should have taken an approach more similar to Ras (not blasting the whole city, but being more harsh towards baddies).

Everything to Batman is logical, in Nolan's version, he bathed Wayne's approach to creating his own Batman approach very methodically, logically and systematically.

Joker is the absolute opposite of that, and it's gonna make Wayne lose it, and question what he's doing...I bet Joker's line of "people think you're a freak...LIKE ME!" will get to him.

This is what I was thinking, and why I believe it would work better than it did in SM2. Bruce would do this because he thinks it would benefit Gotham, not just because he wanted to bed the ginge. t:

 

[combusticator]

not just because he wanted to bed the ginge. t:

LOL!

 

[cabjvitu]

yeah but mostly the line that joker says at the beggining of the trailer, if u change things forever.. etc etc. made me think about this, and then when Alfred tells him that it made it clear to me, even though i was not sure how and when, and exactly why, coz yeah one could imagine it is coz of the escalation and joker bringing anarchy, or the hole batmans thing, like the comics.. but Nolan will show exactly why in the movie, if this we r thinking is right.

 

[sasquatchs]

I hope not, it's the most tired cliche in the book. The alternative explanation is that Bruce is sitting down in his Batman costume waiting for the sun to go down, because he's so obsessed with being Batman there's nothing else. Alot like the Keaton scene in Returns. As others have pointed out Alfreds speech could be about keeping up the Bruce Wayne appearances or soon there won't be a Batman or Bruce Wayne, people will put 2 and 2 together. So really the opposite situation, way more interesting I think.

 

[Fenrir]

Does anyone even pay attention?

"People are dying. What would you have me do?"

It's clear that Bruce hesitates because the existence of Batman now somehow puts the people of Gotham at risk (in that Batman's enemies are targeting innocents to get to him), the very people he swore an oath to protect. That also might explain Gordon smashing the Batsignal, signifying Batman has become a menace to the city and that it no longer wants him - exactly what Alfred meant by "you could be the outcast". It's very much different that the usual Superman/Spider-Man 2 dilemma where the hero gives it all up for personal rather than altruistic reasons. But in the case of TDK, Bruce has second thoughts because the result of his actions is now conflicting with his purpose as a savior of the city.

 

[Anita18]

It's very much different that the usual Superman/Spider-Man 2 dilemma where the hero gives it all up for personal rather than altruistic reasons. But in the case of TDK, Bruce has second thoughts because the result of his actions is now conflicting with his purpose as a savior of the city.

Absolutely. That's why if he has a change of heart, if it's approached this way I am so there.

I'm so tired of the "Ohh, it's sooo hard having a personal life and being a superhero!" angst. We need some new angst!

 

[Symbiote666]

It seems from the quote..

"People are dying. What would you have me do?"

.. That Batman is struggling with his 'no killing' policy. Alfred tells him he could be the man that makes the choices nobody else will, meaning he can't get rid of this threat by locking it away, he has to kill him/them, which is usually untouched territory for a hero. He could be stepping the line from hero to anti-hero here, with some questionable (for Bruce) results.

Like the teaser said, he has pushed them, and when they were pushed, the 'brought in' someone far more dangerous, that is now causing more trouble than they ever did. Batman has indirectly caused the chaos, and now he doesn't know how to stop it.

 

[Eggyman]

The only way Spider-man 2 has been implied here is the title of the thread. I am in agreement that if anything like this should happen, it should be because the persona Bruce has created seems to be doing more harm than good -- escalation is the key to it I think.

 

[samsnee]

It seems from the quote..

"People are dying. What would you have me do?"

.. That Batman is struggling with his 'no killing' policy. Alfred tells him he could be the man that makes the choices nobody else will, meaning he can't get rid of this threat by locking it away, he has to kill him/them, which is usually untouched territory for a hero. He could be stepping the line from hero to anti-hero here, with some questionable (for Bruce) results.

Like the teaser said, he has pushed them, and when they were pushed, the 'brought in' someone far more dangerous, that is now causing more trouble than they ever did. Batman has indirectly caused the chaos, and now he doesn't know how to stop it.

It seems completely out of character for Alfred to imply killing someone.

And although the reason why Bruce quits being Batman might be different than Spider-man or Superman, the mere idea that the hero quits isn't original, and will definitely seem like its copying the the elements of Spider-man 2 or Superman 2 to most people.

 

[Juggernaut33]

It seems from the quote..

"People are dying. What would you have me do?"

.. That Batman is struggling with his 'no killing' policy. Alfred tells him he could be the man that makes the choices nobody else will, meaning he can't get rid of this threat by locking it away, he has to kill him/them, which is usually untouched territory for a hero. He could be stepping the line from hero to anti-hero here, with some questionable (for Bruce) results.

Alfred would never say things like that. When he says that he can be the outcast, he means that he hasn't to abide by the law, he can take "shortcuts" but no killing! The Joker will force Batman to kill (C'mon! Hit me!) but he probably won't, not on purpose and Alfred won't suggest him to do so.

 

[El KnightoDarko]

Does anyone even pay attention?

"People are dying. What would you have me do?"

It's clear that Bruce hesitates because the existence of Batman now somehow puts the people of Gotham at risk (in that Batman's enemies are targeting innocents to get to him), the very people he swore an oath to protect. That also might explain Gordon smashing the Batsignal, signifying Batman has become a menace to the city and that it no longer wants him - exactly what Alfred meant by "you could be the outcast". It's very much different that the usual Superman/Spider-Man 2 dilemma where the hero gives it all up for personal rather than altruistic reasons. But in the case of TDK, Bruce has second thoughts because the result of his actions is now conflicting with his purpose as a savior of the city.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Batman'll never quit to "just have a normal life". In fact, TDK might show Bruce becoming so obsessed with his Bat persona, that the public might deem him a menace. Also, the Joker mainly commits crimes to draw out Batman. Batman is the embodiment of rational and logical thinking (in the Joker's mind) and as such the anarchist in him cannot help but defy this force for order.

In essence, if there were no Batman, there would be no Joker. I guess because of these reasons, Bruce might consider hanging up his cowl temporarily.

 

[sasquatchs]

Joker's whole point seems to be terrorizing Gotham to turn it against Batman, bring him down to Joker's level. It's like a really clever PR smear campaign, turning his symbol against him

 

[Eggyman]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Batman'll never quit to "just have a normal life". In fact, TDK might show Bruce becoming so obsessed with his Bat persona, that the public might deem him a menace. Also, the Joker mainly commits crimes to draw out Batman. Batman is the embodiment of rational and logical thinking (in the Joker's mind) and as such the anarchist in him cannot help but defy this force for order.

In essence, if there were no Batman, there would be no Joker. I guess because of these reasons, Bruce might consider hanging up his cowl temporarily.

Great post

This is exactly what I was getting at. Bruce will realise that Gordon was right when he spoke of escalation. The Joker is the face of that escalation.

 

[Fettdave]

I also think this is a logical explaination to the bat-signal smashing. Kind of a "You started this, and now when it's getting really messy, you just leave?" kind of thing.

 

[Bishop]

Alfred would never say things like that. When he says that he can be the outcast, he means that he hasn't to abide by the law, he can take "shortcuts" but no killing! The Joker will force Batman to kill (C'mon! Hit me!) but he probably won't, not on purpose and Alfred won't suggest him to do so.

Yeah you're probably right. he'll likely come close to killing Joker during the film's climax, reasoning mentally that as he has 'no name' and 'no other alias', he is essentially more of a malignant evil than a person. Despite this, there'll be a cheesy montage of his parents death, and he'll feel bad and hand him over to Gordon.

 

[Juggernaut33]

Yeah you're probably right. he'll likely come close to killing Joker during the film's climax, reasoning mentally that as he has 'no name' and 'no other alias', he is essentially more of a malignant evil than a person. Despite this, there'll be a cheesy montage of his parents death, and he'll feel bad and hand him over to Gordon.

Sam Raimi is directing the movie???

 

[Secret_Riddle]

It's..possible..I don't know if they'll do it though.

 

[turtlefocker]

I really hope that you are wrong

 

[Wedge A.]

I also think this is a logical explaination to the bat-signal smashing. Kind of a "You started this, and now when it's getting really messy, you just leave?" kind of thing.

Well, there were a lot of uniformed police officers watching Gordon smash it, so I don't think it's something personal.

And somebody else said that maybe Batman wants to stop being Bruce Wayne, which is a unique spin on the sequels of superhero movies.

 

[Monster]

I've lost the plot completely.

 

[The Sage]

Now thinking about it, I'm wondering if Joker is threatening to commit some genocidal act if Batman doesn't reveal his secret identity.