Batman Begins Batman Begins: Should it have shown more training?

[Smylex]

Hmmm, Training

Should have had a montage, time passes faster with a montage, even rocky had a montage.

Sorry t:

 

[Juanigi]

the script had more scenes of training as a "criminal," with him lifting a wallet and then returning it to the owner, learning how to crack a safe, pick locks, etc

 

[gwynplaine]

Didn't Bruce spend some time in Europe, France maybe, during this so-called training period, at some point in the comics ?

 

[GoogleMe94]

yes. of all the flaws i have with this movie, this is one of the biggest (casting holmes was the biggest). yes, more training would have been a good, no, GREAT idea. the amount they showed in the movie was good.....for a trailer. but i expected more. what they showed of bruces ninja training on that WB11 10 minutes preview thing was pretty much all of it, and that was dissapoiinting when i saw it in the theater, cuz i was expecting more, not just quick random shots of nothing.

 

[Batmanguy1]

casting holmes was the biggest

LOL

 

[blind_fury]

wow. The Nolan apologists are out in force this week.

Of course they should've conveyed that Bruce received alot more training than they did. Begins shows a lost Bruce in his twenties get discovered by Ras Al Ghul who then spoon feeds him into becoming superhero worthy in a matter of months. That's not Batman.

Batman through sheer dedication and will trains intensely globally for over a decade, night and day, to become the ultimate crime fighter. He knows he will spend the next 15 years training to become a vigilante the moment his parents are brutally shot. The inhuman commitment that will forge his mind, body and soul into Batman begins at that moment and never lets up for a second.

No human could become Batman with a couple years of ninjitsu training. This takes so much from the character. When Batman does something amazing you understand it's because he's been training to master every conceivable crime fighting tactic since he was 8. I can't believe so many of you think the half-assed, 18-month ninjitsu origin was enough to explain how Bruce becomes the greatest human superhero. wtf?

 

[Kakihara]

Hmmm, Training

Should have had a montage, time passes faster with a montage, even rocky had a montage.

Sorry t:

Yeah, with that great Trey Parker montage music used during the montage sequence in Team America and that Asspen episode of South Park.

 

[Infinity9999x]

More training? Well not exactly, but I would have loved for him to at least mention that he studied detective skills, advanced science, and escapism. You don't even have to show it, just mention it so we know he has those skills.

 

[TheBatman072]

wow. The Nolan apologists are out in force this week.

Of course they should've conveyed that Bruce received alot more training than they did. Begins shows a lost Bruce in his twenties get discovered by Ras Al Ghul who then spoon feeds him into becoming superhero worthy in a matter of months. That's not Batman.

Batman through sheer dedication and will trains intensely globally for over a decade, night and day, to become the ultimate crime fighter. He knows he will spend the next 15 years training to become a vigilante the moment his parents are brutally shot. The inhuman commitment that will forge his mind, body and soul into Batman begins at that moment and never lets up for a second.

No human could become Batman with a couple years of ninjitsu training. This takes so much from the character. When Batman does something amazing you understand it's because he's been training to master every conceivable crime fighting tactic since he was 8. I can't believe so many of you think the half-assed, 18-month ninjitsu origin was enough to explain how Bruce becomes the greatest human superhero. wtf?

He HAD been training since his parents were killed. His time in the schools, he was training his mind, and he looked to be in pretty good shape. Then after the trial, he spent seven years abroad. Training in all kinds of martial arts and the criminal element. Of which was shown during the flashback sequences of Bruce as a theif. Stealing fruit and those Chinese Wayne Enterprise products. The martial arts training he had gotten was shown in the scene of Bruce first going to the League of Shadows temple, in the fight with Ducard. Ducard was naming off all the styles of fighting Bruce was using. I'd say the time he spent in the League of Shadows was two, MAYBE three years of the seven.

Just becuase Nolan didn't hold our hand and spoon-feed every little scene to us, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm pretty sure he just wants us to think on our own.

And at least Nolan GAVE us some training scenes and implied them to almost truth. Burton didn't give us **** in that category. I barely even think that Burton's Batman was a martial artist. A couple of standing still kicks and punches hardly qualifies you as a good fighter.

 

[TheBatman072]

And who says the training is over just becuase he's Batman now? Batman's ALWAYS training, always perfecting what needs to be perfected, and taking the perfect to a new level.

He didn't spend a rough decade and then IMMEDIATELY become The World's Greatest Everything. He built up the skills neccessary to start his war, and then refines them and adds to them as the years go by.

 

[TheBatman072]

And one more thing, Year One.

He wasn't Super Sherlock Holmes in Year One, nor could he make Chuck Norris his ***** in terms of fighting. He almost got beaten up by three teenagers!

Same idea goes to Batman BEGINS

 

[blind_fury]

And one more thing, Year One.

He wasn't Super Sherlock Holmes in Year One, nor could he make Chuck Norris his ***** in terms of fighting. He almost got beaten up by three teenagers!

Same idea goes to Batman BEGINS

But unlike Begins they never reveal the limitations of his detective skills and intelligence by having a genius give him help with antidotes and gadgets.

Bruce shows up in Gotham a complete mystery. He shatters bricks with his palm, escapes from a police cruiser in ways no other normal man could, takes out almost an entire squad of SWAT team members as the hunted becomes the hunter, and recognizes traps set by the corrupt police as if he's toying with children. Every injury he takes is in the rescue of someone which makes sense because he's used to training for his own survival and taking out criminals without unplanned, spontaneous rescue scenarios. Year One shows a mysterious Batman who gets sloppy during rescues but is still far beyond any crime fighter Gotham has ever known. How he got so damn good is never reduced to a few months of mystical ninjitsu with Ras Al Ghul during his mid-twenties. That is just a half-assed explanation how Bruce became capable of being the worlds greatest human superhero.

 

[TheBatman072]

But unlike Begins they never reveal the limitations of his detective skills and intelligence by having a genius give him help with antidotes and gadgets.

Where were his limitations in Begins? He figured out pretty much all he needed to. From doing research on Gordon and Rachel in his study, to interrogating Flass, to analyzing the Fear Toxin after being in a three day coma. Off the top of his freakin' head.

Bruce shows up in Gotham a complete mystery. He shatters bricks with his palm, escapes from a police cruiser in ways no other normal man could, takes out almost an entire squad of SWAT team members as the hunted becomes the hunter, and recognizes traps set by the corrupt police as if he's toying with children. Every injury he takes is in the rescue of someone which makes sense because he's used to training for his own survival and taking out criminals without unplanned, spontaneous rescue scenarios. Year One shows a mysterious Batman who gets sloppy during rescues but is still far beyond any crime fighter Gotham has ever known. How he got so damn good is never reduced to a few months of mystical ninjitsu with Ras Al Ghul during his mid-twenties. That is just a half-assed explanation how Bruce became capable of being the worlds greatest human superhero.

Well, that was a great summary of Year One.

 

[blind_fury]

He HAD been training since his parents were killed. His time in the schools, he was training his mind, and he looked to be in pretty good shape. Then after the trial, he spent seven years abroad. Training in all kinds of martial arts and the criminal element. Of which was shown during the flashback sequences of Bruce as a theif. Stealing fruit and those Chinese Wayne Enterprise products. The martial arts training he had gotten was shown in the scene of Bruce first going to the League of Shadows temple, in the fight with Ducard. Ducard was naming off all the styles of fighting Bruce was using. I'd say the time he spent in the League of Shadows was two, MAYBE three years of the seven.

Sorry but nowhere does the movie state Bruce was with Ras Al Ghul for 7 years. It could just as easily be 7 months from the audiences perspective. Bruce is a thief with knowledge of kung fu before he's discovered by a single mentor who single-handedly molds Bruce into a ninja capable of being a superhero. Bruce is lost and confused until Ras Al Ghul finds him. He's no longer a child who meticulously plans to become a crime fighter the moment his parents are shot and becomes a self-made superhero using every tactic and training the world has to offer. What a total misrepresentation of what made Bruce Wayne exceptional. Most kids would become dumb brutes or confused after we witness our parents murder and left orphaned without guidance. But Bruce Wayne was not just the average kid. He became a focused machine dedicated to a one-man war on crime while we were playing video games and chasing girls. He wasn't lost waiting for someone to show him his fate. He knew his fate and used everything at his disposal to make it a reality. The moment his parent were killed he knew he was going to train to fight crime in ways no man ever attempted. He was never lost and found as Begins suggest. He was determined to become the ultimate crime fighter the day his parents were murdered. It's obviously integral to the character. It explains why Batman is so rare. No one puts themselves through what Bruce did from the age of 8. Even Alexander the Great wasn't as focused and committed when he was trained as a child. That is why Batman is the greatest mortal superhero who ever lived.

It's a powerful testament to what a human is capable of if driven and focused from an early age by tragedy. Nolan threw it all away.

Just becuase Nolan didn't hold our hand and spoon-feed every little scene to us, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm pretty sure he just wants us to think on our own.

And at least Nolan GAVE us some training scenes and implied them to almost truth. Burton didn't give us **** in that category. I barely even think that Burton's Batman was a martial artist. A couple of standing still kicks and punches hardly qualifies you as a good fighter.

Nolan spoon fed us in the worst way possible. His half assed approach limited Bruces training to months. Thereby marginalizing Bruce's worldwide, child-to-adulthood training that made him so well versed and multi-facated in every way a crime fighter could be.

Nolan made Bruce look like a lost fool in his mid-twenties until Ras Al Ghul got a hold of him. Pathetic. We're better off with not knowing how Bruce became capable of being a legendary crime fighter rather than underestimating his skill/knowledge because it was mostly limited to Ras Al Ghul's tutelage during his mid-twenties. I guess any rich guy with dead parents can become a superhero with 18 months under ras Al Ghul.

If your going to reveal Bruce's past either don't do it or do it right. Random flashbacks from all over the world would've left the door open to limitless training possibilities. Batman isn't limited to ninja training during his mid-twenties with some pick-pocketing and college forensics thrown in for bad measure. No way anyone could become Batman with so little training. No matter how much money they had. What a bunch of half-assed garbage.

 

[TwilightPro101]

No, had plenty of that going on.

 

[MAKIEVELLI]

No, had plenty of that going on.

The way the movie portrays it, Ra's Al Ghul was the only one who trained Bruce and I thought that was a horrible decision. A few flashbacks just showing us where and how Bruce trained all over the world would've been great.

 

[combusticator]

Bruce Wayne: Have you told anyone I'm coming back?
Alfred Pennyworth: I just couldn't figure legal ramifications of bringing you back from the dead.
Bruce Wayne: Dead?
Alfred Pennyworth: You've been gone seven years.

 

[blind_fury]

Bruce Wayne: Have you told anyone I'm coming back?
Alfred Pennyworth: I just couldn't figure legal ramifications of bringing you back from the dead.
Bruce Wayne: Dead?
Alfred Pennyworth: You've been gone seven years.

Gone from Gotham.

That doesn't mean he was with Ras Al Ghul for seven years.

 

[da3dl3us]

I'm sure this have been mentioned before, but I think they should have developed Bruce's intellectual training and detective skills.

I think they mentioned he drops out of college. Granted, he's smart enough to get into Princeton, but it kind suggests, unintentionally so, that he isn't that focused. I recall in the comics him being an intense studier in college and brilliant scientist.

 

[iron_spartan]

They showed enough.

 

[orestes]

I voted yes.

Besides the ending when Batman confronts Flass and the sequence with Batman saving Rachael from the Scarecrow, the League of Shadows is my favorite part of the movie. Very interesting stuff that I would have loved to seen more of.

 

[TheBatman072]

Gone from Gotham.

That doesn't mean he was with Ras Al Ghul for seven years.

And I never said he was. Did you even READ what I wrote?


I said he had been with the League for two, MAYBE three years of the entire seven. Not with them the whole seven.


So, yeah, you probably DIDN'T read it. Oh well.