BvS Batman or Superman: Which do you prefer?

[Sharkboy]

Bravo Shikamaru, you say what we all (and what I personally) feel. That is EXACTLY why i prefer Batman to Superman, heck it's why I prefer Batman to everyone else. His inspiring will, his intelligence, the world he is in and most importantly (what his critics seem to get wrong) his balance!

 

[Shikamaru]

Bravo Shikamaru, you say what we all (and what I personally) feel. That is EXACTLY why i prefer Batman to Superman, heck it's why I prefer Batman to everyone else. His inspiring will, his intelligence, the world he is in and most importantly (what his critics seem to get wrong) his balance!

I think when you combine all of those things, his fictious status creates a bit of a feeling of tragedy.

I always believed Superman is the hero everybody wants to be, while Batman is the hero nobody wants to be but everybody wants to exist.

 

[Sharkboy]

I think when you combine all of those things, his fictious status creates a bit of a feeling of tragedy.

I always believed Superman is the hero everybody wants to be, while Batman is the hero nobody wants to be but everybody wants to exist.

Heck, I'd bet even Batman wants to be Superman, but he'll never be, so he'll be the absolute closest possible and take all the physical pain that superman will never have to endure in order to achieve that.

 

[AnneFan]

I found this 50 reasons why Batman is the greatest superhero article.

http://whatculture.com/comics/50-reasons-why-batman-is-the-greatest-superhero-ever.php

And he is the greatest.

 

[Shikamaru]

Heck, I'd bet even Batman wants to be Superman, but he'll never be, so he'll be the absolute closest possible and take all the physical pain that superman will never have to endure in order to achieve that.

Of course he would. Honestly, even the "Superman is gay, he wears tights" group would want to be Superman, whether they admit it or not .

These points sum up my thoughts quite nicely I will say that I have grown to love and appreciate Superman more as the years have passed. Batman may be my favorite, but Supes is a close second. Also, I'm particularly happy that you brought up the third point. Superman and Batman share exactly the same morals and values despite a difference in methodology. I'm always baffled when writers miss this point, such as in Hush when Batman says, "Deep down Clark is a good person, and deep down I'm not".

Ugh, that was a horrendous line. It was another failed attempt at demonizing Batman where it isn't needed (not that you can't ever show Batman in a negative light, but sometimes it's really forced). It's something a lot of writers do as soon as they take Batman out of Gotham City, particularly in JL stories. I hate how they react to him like he's the Punisher, especially when they make Superman react like that. "Last time you inspired someone was when you were dead" is another cringeworthy line that bugs me. I don't buy for a second Batman would say something like that to Superman.


In reality - and this is something I realized somewhat recently - Batman is not as dark of a character as you'd think. Sure he presents himself as dark on the exterior, but he is no anti-hero or simply "Punisher minus the guns". Tony Stark is arguably closer to that than Batman, and even he is nowhere near that level. Heck, all the Avengers in the movies have killed before.

IMO, Superman has not been handled properly since Pre Crisis.

What did you think of Byrne's run and All Star?

I've always seen both as being extraordinary characters in an ordinary world. Batman's villains are just as extraordinary as Superman's. I always find the best stories though are usually the ones that act as though they're in the real world so to speak, like Superman and Batman both were in the '30s and '40s, really allows us to see the awesomeness of the characters that way since we have some foot in their world, or rather, they're in ours. And I don't mean dulling Superman and Batman down a la Nolan for our world when I say that "real world" stuff, I mean allowing them to exist, by contrast, in all their awesomeness, in our world. That's what makes them so great and entertaining and wish-fulfilling and fun and inspiring and original and unordinary. That's their appeal to me.

I agree. I prefer that approach as well. Extraordinary characters in an ordinary world are the way to go, for both Marvel and DC.

Superman also lives in a somewhat-ordinary world, but I was just pointing out the difference in the causes they fight. Batman has more of that "ordinary world" aspect down in the sense that Gotham has become a more accurate representation of the way the world is as opposed to Metropolis, or at least a more accurate representation of how we see the world. The causes Batman fights in Gotham hit closer to home for me. Superman has a lot of that too, particularly with Lexcorp, but things like alien invasions from Brainiac are concepts a bit more fictious and less common in the real world (heck at this point, not common at all ).

Underneath it all both Batman and Superman possess the same qualities. They're both indomitable, they're both unbreakable, and they're both unshakeable even in the face of darkest despair. Batman's solution to a problem usually require more wit and more strategy but seeing Superman physically overcome the most impossible of challenges inspires you on a completely different level. Everyone at one point or another knows what it feels like to have to move a mountain. We all know what it's like to have the weight on our shoulders. Superman symbolizes that.

The first thing that drew me to Superman when I was 3 years old wasn't his wit or his cunning it was the awe and wonder you felt from watching a man who was more powerful than a locomotive and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Being a great detective or a great scientist is cool and all but Superman inspires kids to strive for more, to do the impossible, and take to the skies.

You're talking about an experience you personally had at age 3 - before you knew anything about the world - that presumably took place at least 2 or 3 decades ago (I'm assuming you're not a teen). I'm referring to how the average 15-40 year old Joe would feel in today's society at this current time.

We live in the Information Age, where we've been told and taught for years now that our minds are the most valuable asset we possess. College degrees are becoming a norm, if they aren't already. The bookworms everyone picked on in the 1950's and 60's now run the world. We've heard the saying "Brain trumps brawn" plenty of times. That aspect has transitioned into pop culture. We no longer admire heroes by how big their muscles are or how far they shoot their lasers, but by how intelligent they are. That's the one thing Batman/Spider-Man/Iron Man have in common, being three of the most popular characters today. Their genius intellect is first and foremost their greatest weapon.

It's one of the reasons Marvel has such an easier time selling their characters than DC does. Since their inception, Marvel's sold their properties on their brains and personality traits as much as they did on their powers. It wasn't as simple as just making them geniuses, but giving them all a specific talent. Peter Parker and Reed Richards are scientific geniuses with a nerdy passion for science, Banner is a gamma radiation expert, Stark is excellent with tech and software, Cap is a natural leader and tactician with WWII training, etc.

Other than Batman, DC's always put more emphasis on powers than intellect, which was fine for the Golden/Silver Age, but it hurts them in this day and age.

 

[Crazymaverick]

Superman all the way for me.

Batman is awesome, but Superman is the absolute best as far as I'm concerned.

No other character comes close.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

This is an apples and oranges situation I think. The characters represent different ideas.

Superman has a "soul" we should aspire to have. It's in the name, Nietzsche's Superman is the idea of the perfect human, which is what Superman represents, he does good because it's good to do good. That's his motivation, it may be cookie cutter or uninteresting (to the short sighted) but how many people do you know who do good for no reason at all? What is a man like that like?

Whereas Batman represents something different. He's supposed to be the "drive" that we should aspire to have. He's perfected himself physically and mentally, and as such is able to stand as a peer to a man with the ideal soul. He represents what we could be too. But it's all born of negativity, he did it because of loss, still a fairly cookie cutter motivation, but more "relatable" for lack of a better word.

Batman's "mission" is incredibly short sighted no matter how noble it may be. Most of his foes are incredibly nihilistic individuals and in a sense Batman demonstrates it himself. But look at the Al Ghuls, they recognise that Bruce will squander his fortune, die a pauper and waste his life because at a very fundamental level, he will never rise above his villains. He'll spend his days battling clowns and quizmasters in the mud (until Flashpoint that was his canonical ending, now it's repeatedly cloning himself). In the end, Bruce's greatest achievement will never be the villains he battles, but the people recruited to his cause. He began three generations of people who recognise that as long as they are needed, Batman & Robin will never die.

Superman may have what seems like a more futile "Neverending Battle" his is more hopeful. It's not devoted to one city, it's for everyone. Of all times, cities, creeds. The ability to fight evil at the source, the actions on evil thought. He'll wait until the end of the universe to keep giving people the chance for compassion and redemption, because everybody deserves it.

I know people haven't said it here, but people of cite that Batman is more "relatable" than Superman. Which is at best a half truth. Bruce Wayne is far less "ordinary" than Clark Kent, but Batman is far more "ordinary" than Superman.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, here's my argument for Superman:

Spoiler

And here's Batman:

Spoiler

Superman fights death and Batman fights the impossible. I love that difference.

 

[Sharkboy]

This is an apples and oranges situation I think. The characters represent different ideas.

Superman has a "soul" we should aspire to have. It's in the name, Nietzsche's Superman is the idea of the perfect human, which is what Superman represents, he does good because it's good to do good. That's his motivation, it may be cookie cutter or uninteresting (to the short sighted) but how many people do you know who do good for no reason at all? What is a man like that like?

Whereas Batman represents something different. He's supposed to be the "drive" that we should aspire to have. He's perfected himself physically and mentally, and as such is able to stand as a peer to a man with the ideal soul. He represents what we could be too. But it's all born of negativity, he did it because of loss, still a fairly cookie cutter motivation, but more "relatable" for lack of a better word.

Batman's "mission" is incredibly short sighted no matter how noble it may be. Most of his foes are incredibly nihilistic individuals and in a sense Batman demonstrates it himself. But look at the Al Ghuls, they recognise that Bruce will squander his fortune, die a pauper and waste his life because at a very fundamental level, he will never rise above his villains. He'll spend his days battling clowns and quizmasters in the mud (until Flashpoint that was his canonical ending, now it's repeatedly cloning himself). In the end, Bruce's greatest achievement will never be the villains he battles, but the people recruited to his cause. He began three generations of people who recognise that as long as they are needed, Batman & Robin will never die.

Superman may have what seems like a more futile "Neverending Battle" his is more hopeful. It's not devoted to one city, it's for everyone. Of all times, cities, creeds. The ability to fight evil at the source, the actions on evil thought. He'll wait until the end of the universe to keep giving people the chance for compassion and redemption, because everybody deserves it.

I know people haven't said it here, but people of cite that Batman is more "relatable" than Superman. Which is at best a half truth. Bruce Wayne is far less "ordinary" than Clark Kent, but Batman is far more "ordinary" than Superman.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, here's my argument for Superman:

Spoiler

And here's Batman:

Spoiler

Superman fights death and Batman fights the impossible. I love that difference.

Isn't it the other way around? According to Morrison?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Whoopsie, that is what I meant.

 

[TheGospelOfMark]

Bats. I'm such a dork. I have a Batman t-shirt under my dress shirt at work today. I also happen to be working on a Bat-Tat on my forearm.

 

[Skrilla31]

We live in the Information Age, where we've been told and taught for years now that our minds are the most valuable asset we possess. College degrees are becoming a norm, if they aren't already. The bookworms everyone picked on in the 1950's and 60's now run the world. We've heard the saying "Brain trumps brawn" plenty of times. That aspect has transitioned into pop culture. We no longer admire heroes by how big their muscles are or how far they shoot their lasers, but by how intelligent they are. That's the one thing Batman/Spider-Man/Iron Man have in common, being three of the most popular characters today. Their genius intellect is first and foremost their greatest weapon.

It's one of the reasons Marvel has such an easier time selling their characters than DC does. Since their inception, Marvel's sold their properties on their brains and personality traits as much as they did on their powers. It wasn't as simple as just making them geniuses, but giving them all a specific talent. Peter Parker and Reed Richards are scientific geniuses with a nerdy passion for science, Banner is a gamma radiation expert, Stark is excellent with tech and software, Cap is a natural leader and tactician with WWII training, etc.

Other than Batman, DC's always put more emphasis on powers than intellect, which was fine for the Golden/Silver Age, but it hurts them in this day and age.

But does spectacle and wonder play no part in this? Do you think the superhero genre would have taken off like it did if someone like Iron Man were introduced in Superman's place? I don't know. I don't think he would have captured our imagination in quite the same way. Batman, Spiderman and Ironman are all great heroes but none of them can fight the battles that Superman can... figuratively or literally. The only one who's even in the discussion is Batman because you could argue that he fights the same battle just on a smaller scale.

I love Batman. On any given week he's my favorite superhero 3 days out of 7 (Superman on the other 4). I mean I was Batman CRAZY when I was a kid. Hell I still am. Again I love, love, LOVE Batman. But I think back to my earliest days with the character and I have to be honest he just didn't amaze me quite like Superman did. If given the choice at that age to watch one and one only I think I would have opted for a Superman cartoon over a Batman cartoon every time. His feats were just more incredible to me.

Although I do have to admit now that I'm older I do find Batman's stories more engaging than Superman's the majority of the time. Not only do his physical limitations and vulnerabilities allow for a much wider dynamic of storytelling but his world just has so much more character than Superman's does. Superman protects the WORLD so Metropolis doesn't quite have that same richness and that same depth that Gotham does. Plus let's be honest with ourselves Superman's rouge gallery doesn't come close to Batman's.

In fact I would love for someone at DC to really go crazy on Superman and just introduce a whole new lineup of villains. If Superman had what Batman had it would elevate his mythology to a whole new level.

 

[marneus]

I like both so I flipped a coin and it came up Superman.

Grant Morrison does a good job explaining what I like about him.

In the end, I saw Superman not as a superhero or even a science fiction character, but as a story of Everyman. We’re all Superman in our own adventures. We have our own Fortresses of Solitude we retreat to, with our own special collections of valued stuff, our own super–pets, our own “Bottle Cities” that we feel guilty for neglecting. We have our own peers and rivals and bizarre emotional or moral tangles to deal with.

I felt I’d really grasped the concept when I saw him as Everyman, or rather as the dreamself of Everyman. That “S” is the radiant emblem of divinity we reveal when we rip off our stuffy shirts, our social masks, our neuroses, our constructed selves, and become who we truly are. Batman is obviously much cooler, but that’s because he’s a very energetic and adolescent fantasy character: a handsome billionaire playboy in black leather with a butler at this beck and call, better cars and gadgetry than James Bond, a horde of fetish femme fatales baying around his heels and no boss. That guy’s Superman day and night.

Superman grew up baling hay on a farm. He goes to work, for a boss, in an office. He pines after a hard–working gal. Only when he tears off his shirt does that heroic, ideal inner self come to life. That’s actually a much more adult fantasy than the one Batman’s peddling but it also makes Superman a little harder to sell. He’s much more of a working class superhero.

American writers often say they find it difficult to write Superman. They say he’s too powerful; you can’t give him problems. But Superman is a metaphor. For me, Superman has the same problems we do, but on a Paul Bunyan scale. If Superman walks the dog, he walks it around the asteroid belt because it can fly in space. When Superman’s relatives visit, they come from the 31st century and bring some hellish monster conqueror from the future. But it’s still a story about your relatives visiting.

 

[747]

The two big ones. Both in the world and for me personally. Grew up loving them both, but always had Superman as the favorite – and I still have.

 

[The Batman]

What did you think of Byrne's run and All Star?

I view the "Man of Steel" mini series the same way I view the Man of Steel film: very nice visuals, but unimpressive overall. Didn't like yuppie Clark, didn't like Kingpin ripoff Lex, didn't like Clark's "Screw Krypton" mentality. All in all, a very overrated version of Superman. I feel that Pre Crisis Superman was a conceptually superior character to the post crisis one.

As for All Star, I think its the best Superman comic book ever made. Why? Because it did what DC should've done years ago: simply take the pre crisis concept of Superman and modernize it for todays audience. I don't think its coincidence that some of the most acclaimed Superman comics are rooted in Pre Crisis ideas.

 

[Bran The Man]

Superman. I grew up with both, but I watched more Superman-related media than Batman-related. He is and always be my favorite. Batman's my number two.

^ This. Only for me, it was the other way around. I had grew up in a time where Batman was everywhere. I think my only exposure to Superman was Lois & Clark and STAS, but even then I didn't know that much about the character.

 

[Skrilla31]

Marneus that excerpt from Morrison was an enjoyable read. Love his take on the subject.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[MrsKent26]

It humanized him in ways that other media hadn't (to my knowledge). I suppose I wasn't looking at the right story arcs in terms of the comic books, or didn't care to look, or else I probably would have come across a Superman story that made me care about him as a character.

So my unwillingness to really try and dive into his stuff and "get" the character combined with nothing about him jumping out to me probably contributed to my distaste for Superman.

I never liked his "boy scout" like persona, especially being that I was never given any explanation for why he is the way that he is. He just always seemed good for the sake of being good, which always struck me as being incredibly corny. He also kind of seemed like a metaphor/propaganda for everything that is good and right with the United States, and Frank Miller's portrayals didn't exactly help.

Lastly, juxtaposed against Batman, what kid wouldn't gravitate towards Bruce? He's "dark" and "cool", so I just stuck with what I knew and grew up with. MOS shed the hokey optimism and painted Clark as a guy who was osctracized and just trying to make it in the world. It resonated with me more than anything to come before.

Interesting perspective. Thanks for answering.

While I was already a superman fan when I watched MOS, I find its superman much closer to my ideal superman than previous movie supermen. It wasn't 100% there, but it was step in the right direction.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Superman is my number two hero. But I care more about Batman's supporting cast and villains than I do Superman's.

That's not to say Superman doesn't have good villains. IMO Superman has the 2nd best rogues gallery in comics. Followed by Spider-Man.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Superman

 

[flickchick85]

I'm not gonna go into the aspects I don't like about Batman, because that wouldn't lead anywhere good, but I will do my best to articulate why I love Superman. There are so many reasons flying around in my head, I almost certainly won't be able to get them all out in any kind of efficient way, lol. In a nutshell, I love the character because of all the contradictions he is constantly living and struggling to balance. They make him an endlessly complex and fascinating character to me.

So first, I love the mythic concept of Superman. People have compared him to Hercules, but I don't see him as a demi-god so much as an actual god raised by man. Like, if Olympus were destroyed and baby Zeus was raised by humans. This creates a wonderful contradiction of a guy who rightfully could rule over us all. He straight-up belongs in another world observing us from afar. He has impulses that are not human and has no one to relate to them. He lives life (as the animated series once put it) as if he's living in a world of cardboard, afraid to make one wrong move for fear of bringing something crumbling to the ground. He can't help but see himself as an outsider, observing the human race from a distance, formulating opinions and judgments on them as a species as best he can. AND YET, he was raised by humans, with their values, their laws, and he makes a choice to live within those sets of boundaries. He could stop a war in a day. But he doesn't, because as a god, he feels its not his place to impose his beliefs and values on an entire civilization. Of course he'll always make a point to save as many innocents as he can, but he still ALLOWS man to wage their wars because it's their world to do so in. And still, within this godlike existence is a guy who just wants to live like everyone else. He has this ever-burning desire to fit in and make a connection. Despite this being the one thing he can never truly do, being a god and all, it's ALSO probably his most human attribute. There's a sort of tragic irony in that which I love. And what I love even more is that he doesn't let this get him down, and instead uses that common attribute to help mankind make those connections with each other. To let them know that they are not alone, and that there is always hope. In this way, I see Superman not as the champion of any country, or government, or specific philosophy, but rather as the ultimate champion of the human spirit. And he was that from the moment he burst onto the scene defending abused wives and oppressed workers from "The Man."

For the record, this is why I don't care for the "Big Blue Boyscout" era in which they turned him into the flag-waving BFF of the American government.

Another reason I love Superman is because of the types of stories certain writers tell with him. I love the ones that are so larger-than-life that they are almost mythic fables. The way I see it, when you have a character who can practically do anything, then the best stories become not about what he CAN do, but rather about what he SHOULD do. They become lovely little morality plays, much like CA:TWS recently did with Marvel's "boring boyscout" character (no surprise here, but Cap is my favorite Marvel hero).

And finally, there's the emotional core of the character, and my views on that are pretty much the same as Grant Morrison's which someone already posted above. In another contradiction from his god-like power set, at his core, he's very much the everyman hero to me. He was raised as a humble, hard-working Midwestern farm kid with simple dreams and ambitions (a job, a family, making rent on time), one who has suffered traumatic loss like everyone else but as an adult he knows there are plenty of people out there who have it worse, so he trudges on, helping wherever he can. I've always preferred the likes of Indiana Jones and John McLane over James Bond, so I guess I'm just naturally a sucker for The Everyman hero. And while Superman may not seem like one on the outside with that power-set, he very much fits the bill in spirit, imo.

Supes is my favorite character in comics. I just wish his screen incarnations could do him justice.

 

[Eros]

Superman for me, hes an immigrant who could rule the world but decided to protect it.

 

[MrsKent26]

I'm not gonna go into the aspects I don't like about Batman, because that wouldn't lead anywhere good, but I will do my best to articulate why I love Superman. There are so many reasons flying around in my head, I almost certainly won't be able to get them all out in any kind of efficient way, lol. In a nutshell, I love the character because of all the contradictions he is constantly living and struggling to balance. They make him an endlessly complex and fascinating character to me.

So first, I love the mythic concept of Superman. People have compared him to Hercules, but I don't see him as a demi-god so much as an actual god raised by man. Like, if Olympus were destroyed and baby Zeus was raised by humans. This creates a wonderful contradiction of a guy who rightfully could rule over us all. He straight-up belongs in another world observing us from afar. He has impulses that are not human and has no one to relate to them. He lives life (as the animated series once put it) as if he's living in a world of cardboard, afraid to make one wrong move for fear of bringing something crumbling to the ground. He can't help but see himself as an outsider, observing the human race from a distance, formulating opinions and judgments on them as a species as best he can. AND YET, he was raised by humans, with their values, their laws, and he makes a choice to live within those sets of boundaries. He could stop a war in a day. But he doesn't, because as a god, he feels its not his place to impose his beliefs and values on an entire civilization. Of course he'll always make a point to save as many innocents as he can, but he still ALLOWS man to wage their wars because it's their world to do so in. And still, within this godlike existence is a guy who just wants to live like everyone else. He has this ever-burning desire to fit in and make a connection. Despite this being the one thing he can never truly do, being a god and all, it's ALSO probably his most human attribute. There's a sort of tragic irony in that which I love. And what I love even more is that he doesn't let this get him down, and instead uses that common attribute to help mankind make those connections with each other. To let them know that they are not alone, and that there is always hope. In this way, I see Superman not as the champion of any country, or government, or specific philosophy, but rather as the ultimate champion of the human spirit. And he was that from the moment he burst onto the scene defending abused wives and oppressed workers from "The Man."

For the record, this is why I don't care for the "Big Blue Boyscout" era in which they turned him into the flag-waving BFF of the American government.

Another reason I love Superman is because of the types of stories certain writers tell with him. I love the ones that are so larger-than-life that they are almost mythic fables. The way I see it, when you have a character who can practically do anything, then the best stories become not about what he CAN do, but rather about what he SHOULD do. They become lovely little morality plays, much like CA:TWS recently did with Marvel's "boring boyscout" character (no surprise here, but Cap is my favorite Marvel hero).

And finally, there's the emotional core of the character, and my views on that are pretty much the same as Grant Morrison's which someone already posted above. In another contradiction from his god-like power set, at his core, he's very much the everyman hero to me. He was raised as a humble, hard-working Midwestern farm kid with simple dreams and ambitions (a job, a family, making rent on time), one who has suffered traumatic loss like everyone else but as an adult he knows there are plenty of people out there who have it worse, so he trudges on, helping wherever he can. I've always preferred the likes of Indiana Jones and John McLane over James Bond, so I guess I'm just naturally a sucker for The Everyman hero. And while Superman may not seem like one on the outside with that power-set, he very much fits the bill in spirit, imo.

Supes is my favorite character in comics. I just wish his screen incarnations could do him justice.

That was a splendid post and I like superman for those reasons as well. Although I enjoyed MOS, I think Hollywood has barely scratched the surface on how deep they can go with this character.

 

[Raelis Shae]

I love both characters, but my passion for either one seems to depend on my own life's ups and downs, as well as their iterations both in the comics and in film.

In my childhood I preferred Superman. He was the ultimate male ideal. He was like your father/brother/future boyfriend/husband all in one. He inspired you with his actions and his indomitable spirit, and he inspired me to be a good person and help people as much as I can.

When I got older, I started to prefer Batman. Maybe it was puberty, but the whole mysterious guy saving people using his wits and skills really made him interesting for me. His strength of will and endurance inspired me to try to go beyond any difficulty, and just to carry on despite the tragedy that is life.

But my preference also depended on the characters' iterations. Anytime Superman had a new iteration, the changes were difficult to accept. I focused too much on the 'cosmetic' elements of the character: his costume, his supporting cast, the villains, etc. I disliked it when they allowed Lois Lane to know he was Clark Kent in the 90s. I even disliked the fact that Ma and Pa Kent were alive in John Byrne's Man of Steel. I disliked Doomsday and Superman's death.

Then as I got older I realised that these changes were at the same time significant and insignificant. The changes were important for the character because he needed to be dynamic and relatable for the current audience. If you try to seal him in the 1930s world that he was born in, he will eventually lose the audience's interest and become a cipher. Which in some ways is happening now; many people can't seem to see him beyond the boyscout image. Which is why change should be welcome; it enables us to relate to him as a human being, an Every-man (albeit gifted with super powers) facing extreme situations, and in these situations the unchanging element of the mythos must shine: Superman's character.

Which is for me the only thing that shouldn't change. His good will, his belief that everyone can be a hero, and that helping others is something that doesn't require payment. I think we see this in most of the comicbooks, the TV series and films. What I dislike is when they give Clark rose-coloured glasses and make him naive and clueless about human social interaction (especially when he's with the JLA or Batman).

I think Superman is an optimist, but that doesn't mean he can't understand darkness. He understands it, and he can be grim and angry, but I don't think he will snap and become evil just because they killed Lois or destroyed Metropolis. I've always believed he had more strength of character than what recent writers have done. I believe Superman understands the danger of extremes: so he weighs every decision based on the situation and stakes at hand.

As for Batman, his origin is the one thing that makes him perpetually interesting: how does one traumatised by violence go on? How can he overcome the psychological strain of such a loss? Add to that the Sherlock Holmes mystique, the James Bond gadgetry, the Zorro-esque double identity and you've got one of the best comicbook characters of all time.

However, as cool as Batman is, I don't buy the current image of the obsessive, psychologically damaged crime-fighter. I refuse to believe he's still an 8-year old boy who has not found any coping mechanism to relieve his loss. I see a Bruce Wayne who uses his parents' death as a tragic jumping off point, to become a hero and help others, both as Batman and Bruce. I cannot see him as a rich boy with a personality disorder who gets therapy by prowling the streets and beating up street thugs.

Right now Batman is more popular than Superman because of the current world situation; it's hard to believe that everything will be all right and it's hard to trust people. Batman is more relatable given the bleakness of our current worldview. But that's why I'm rooting for Superman these days, because I need him most when the days aren't all that bright.
Also as a character that I love, I don't want to see him lose the significance he has for the past 75 years and become just another Mickey Mouse. He's too good for that.

 

[AnneFan]

Bats is my guy, but Superman is a deeper character than some people say.

There's a reflective side to him which I respect. I think it comes down to his country boy roots. The man who sees the beauty in life and mother nature. The man who doesn't brood but contemplates quietly, sitting on a cloud or alone in the arctic. He knows goodness is possible and all around us. Everyday people look around, but they don't see. He wants them to, but in their own time, so it is genuine and meaningful. Just like Pete Ross in MoS. Its hopeful in tone but also quite sad in a way. Plus the fact he ages so slowly and is destined to outlive all his friends.

 

[antonydelfini]

I'm not gonna go into the aspects I don't like about Batman, because that wouldn't lead anywhere good, but I will do my best to articulate why I love Superman. There are so many reasons flying around in my head, I almost certainly won't be able to get them all out in any kind of efficient way, lol. In a nutshell, I love the character because of all the contradictions he is constantly living and struggling to balance. They make him an endlessly complex and fascinating character to me.

So first, I love the mythic concept of Superman. People have compared him to Hercules, but I don't see him as a demi-god so much as an actual god raised by man. Like, if Olympus were destroyed and baby Zeus was raised by humans. This creates a wonderful contradiction of a guy who rightfully could rule over us all. He straight-up belongs in another world observing us from afar. He has impulses that are not human and has no one to relate to them. He lives life (as the animated series once put it) as if he's living in a world of cardboard, afraid to make one wrong move for fear of bringing something crumbling to the ground. He can't help but see himself as an outsider, observing the human race from a distance, formulating opinions and judgments on them as a species as best he can. AND YET, he was raised by humans, with their values, their laws, and he makes a choice to live within those sets of boundaries. He could stop a war in a day. But he doesn't, because as a god, he feels its not his place to impose his beliefs and values on an entire civilization. Of course he'll always make a point to save as many innocents as he can, but he still ALLOWS man to wage their wars because it's their world to do so in. And still, within this godlike existence is a guy who just wants to live like everyone else. He has this ever-burning desire to fit in and make a connection. Despite this being the one thing he can never truly do, being a god and all, it's ALSO probably his most human attribute. There's a sort of tragic irony in that which I love. And what I love even more is that he doesn't let this get him down, and instead uses that common attribute to help mankind make those connections with each other. To let them know that they are not alone, and that there is always hope. In this way, I see Superman not as the champion of any country, or government, or specific philosophy, but rather as the ultimate champion of the human spirit. And he was that from the moment he burst onto the scene defending abused wives and oppressed workers from "The Man."

For the record, this is why I don't care for the "Big Blue Boyscout" era in which they turned him into the flag-waving BFF of the American government.

Another reason I love Superman is because of the types of stories certain writers tell with him. I love the ones that are so larger-than-life that they are almost mythic fables. The way I see it, when you have a character who can practically do anything, then the best stories become not about what he CAN do, but rather about what he SHOULD do. They become lovely little morality plays, much like CA:TWS recently did with Marvel's "boring boyscout" character (no surprise here, but Cap is my favorite Marvel hero).

And finally, there's the emotional core of the character, and my views on that are pretty much the same as Grant Morrison's which someone already posted above. In another contradiction from his god-like power set, at his core, he's very much the everyman hero to me. He was raised as a humble, hard-working Midwestern farm kid with simple dreams and ambitions (a job, a family, making rent on time), one who has suffered traumatic loss like everyone else but as an adult he knows there are plenty of people out there who have it worse, so he trudges on, helping wherever he can. I've always preferred the likes of Indiana Jones and John McLane over James Bond, so I guess I'm just naturally a sucker for The Everyman hero. And while Superman may not seem like one on the outside with that power-set, he very much fits the bill in spirit, imo.

Supes is my favorite character in comics. I just wish his screen incarnations could do him justice.

this should be posted every page.